Hello - a bit about me: My name is Victoria, and I have one son who will turn 5 at the end of November. He is an only child, and I feel that he exhibits signs of giftedness, though he has never been tested. We live in GA, and in this state, a child must be 5 by September 1st to enter kindergarten. I was informed that there are no exceptions to this rule. I placed my son in one of the free "GA Pre-K" programs. I do not feel that this was a good match, either academically or socially. (Realistically, I did not excpect much academically from pre-k; I hoped he would make friends and have fun.) Shortly after entering the pre-k, my son began to vehemently express his dislike of the school, saying things such as: "I want to move to Pluto; "I want to smash (the name of the school)", and (most disturbingly), "I wish I were dead/never born."
When we would ask what it was that he didn't like, he would invariably say, "the bad lunches (they had a rule that we must purchase their lunch - a rule I never even thought to ask about as it never occurred to me that a kid couldn't bring his lunch)," and "nap time (he hasn't napped since before 1 yr old, though the teachers were nice enough to let him read during nap time)." One day I asked the teachers if they could think of any reason why my son would hate going to school, and they seemed stunned. They said that he's not a behavior problem, very smart, and he seemed happy. I asked if he plays with other children, and they thought about it and said that he plays alone alot. I know that when he's with us at home, he's always trying to engage us in play. When I took him for orientation, I'd mentioned that he's reading. I was told, "that's ok, we had a number of readers last year." When I later asked if there are other kids at his level, they looked at each other and said, "no, some of the kids know some of their letters, but none of the others are actually reading." My son regularly reads Henry & Mudge, The Magic School Bus, etc. unassisted (and has for over a year). The last straw came for us last night when I discovered a BITE MARK on his arm. While my son neither complained at the school, nor to us, he was bitten so hard that the bruise was visible tonight, more than 24 hours after the occurence. My husband & I decided to withdraw him and place him in a small Montessori school. While the director of the old pre-k couldn't care less, the teachers of his old school were very upset. They felt that he was making great social progress (I admit that today, of all days, I did witness this for the very first time in his two months there), and said that I would be teaching him that any time he shows any difficulty I would yank him away. This particular teacher has a child with Aspberger's Syndrome, and states that my child shows some similar behaviors. I don't feel that I am in denial, but I genuinely don't think he has this condition. While he does lack some social snd motor skills, he is the only child of two reclusive parents. He posesses great empathy and while he has the large vocabulary, he has a great sense of humor and absolutely loves word play. Further, she said that Montessori would be great for him academically, but disasterous for him socially as it is all independent work/play. The Montessori school we are interested in is small and new; the director seems very interested in working with us, and said that social and motor skills would be a focus.

Sorry for such a long and rambling post; I am truly worried at this point. I'm also considering having him tested, though to what end, I don't know. The Montessori director is working with us financially, and we have had to make rather large cuts in our retirement savings, etc. to make this move. We are in a supposedly good area for public schools, so hopefully, next year will be ok (finger's crossed). Does anyone have any advice or similar experience?

I don't know. There really is a fine line here. It also is not ok to teach kids that you should stay somewhere you are miserable and apparently mistreated. I wouldn't worry about any of the teachers. "Not their kid" is sort of my saying.
Does he have to be in preK? Just wondering if you could pull him out completely. Personally, I would have pulled him out so fast it would make their head spin but, that is just my personality/bias against schools speaking. I have a little guy who does not go to prek yet but, he is in tons of other activities so he can play with other kids.

GL!

We do not have to put him in pre-k; it is not compulsory, and we do not need it for the baby-sitting. Our entire reason for his participation is for socialization that he was not getting at home with us (my husband works 3 days per week; I work 5 - any day we are both working is covered by my mom or mother-in law). My husband is more reclusive than I, and I only have one weekend day per week off, so it's taxing for me to try to cram in all of the other activities. I do, however, frequently take him to the science museum, other museums, parks, etc. as well as set up play dates for him. The Montessori school seems like it would be a good fit, and I wouldn't be second guessing myself if it weren't for the teacher's extreme reaction.

I would not use the teacher as diagnotic. I do believe teachers can lead to becoming aware of problems but they are not a doctor or pschologist. Behaviors that are similar to ADD for example can occur because of environment, stress and many other factors. This does not mean a child is ADD.

I would suggest you might talk to some parents that go to the school and see what they think of this teacher. Also go observe the class. Could you volunteer for a day? Or make a very social plan with classes and playdates.

Following your "mom gut" is always a good idea. Was he getting enough out of the school to make it worth his time--keeping in mind that at 4/5yo, a school year is a BIG chunk of his life!--especially when he could be doing other things? It sounds like the answer to that is a resounding no. Don't let the teachers worry you. They clearly didn't understand your child the way that you do. Why would they know what's best for him more than you do?

I'd also counsel not being too upset by the "I wish I were dead" sorts of comments in a child that age--provided you do something about what's causing the comment. (That's key!) It's a pretty common way to express unhappiness with a situation. If you don't see other signs of depression, it's probably better translated as "I am really not happy with this school."

If you DO see other signs of depression, take action quickly, of course. I don't want to downplay that!

But I think it pays to remember that "You're mean to me" becomes "I hate you!" and "You're nice to me" is "You're the best Mommy ever!" for kids this age.

Hang in there!

If your child was bitten hard enough to bruise some sort of reaction had to happen at the school when it happened (OW! hey don't bite me! something...). If that was not noticed or reported there is a HUGE problem. I am listed under a friend's daycare license and if a child is EVER hurt you have to write it up and inform the parents. Same with the daycare/preschool/K program Wolf goes to. If a bite that hard went unnoticed that means the teachers are not paying enough attention and that is DANGEROUS!!!

The fact that they are getting on your case about pulling him and not bending over backwards apologizing to cover their butts for missing that astounds me.

You did exactly the right this by pulling him and if I were in your shoes I would inform the principal of the bite incident and that it wasn't reported. Heck I'd send an email straight up the chain on that one.

Other than the school, I did not see any serious signs of depression. And while he made the comments of "I wish I were dead," and has expressed some fascination with the subject, I do not see any actual suicidal ideations. The last week he had not expressed as much (or, at least as vehemently) his displeasure, however, he has been extremely constipated. My husband seems to think it's a coincidence, but I can't help but wonder if there's a connection: internalizing frustration.

I'm hoping that the new school will be a good fit. We figure, however, that if it isn't, we could keep him at home until kindergarten.

[quote=Wyldkat]If your child was bitten hard enough to bruise some sort of reaction had to happen at the school when it happened (OW! hey don't bite me! something...). If that was not noticed or reported there is a HUGE problem. I am listed under a friend's daycare license and if a child is EVER hurt you have to write it up and inform the parents.

They said that they didn't see it and my son didn't complain. While I don't understand why he didn't, I do believe the teacher - she's called me before about him bumping his head, getting a small scratch. Further, when I asked my son, he said "it didn't hurt," which is hard for me to believe as the bruise is still visible Sunday morning. When I brought it to their attention, they did document it, but I did not feel that they took it as seriously as the viciousness of the bite warranted.

The fact that they are getting on your case about pulling him and not bending over backwards apologizing to cover their butts for missing that astounds me.

The teachers did apologize (one of the regular teachers was at training the day of the bite), but the one who was absent was the one who was going on and on about how detrimental it would be to withdraw my son. She even said, "one bite by a child who doesn't speak English, and you want to yank him out. . . and he's not traumatized; he doesn't even care about the bite." The day of the incident when I went to pick him up, he was acting weird - saying he didn't want to go home, etc. Often he speaks in opposites when he's upset ("I don't want to go to the park! I want to stay home and go to sleep!"). That day when I picked him up, I asked the remaining regular teacher if he had a good day, and she said that everything wss fine. In fact, that morning before the incident, my husband asked her how my son's doing (meaning socially with the other children), and she said,"about the same." Then that afternoon, the other teacher (who had been away for the previous two or three days) was going on and on about how he has improved.



You did exactly the right this by pulling him and if I were in your shoes I would inform the principal of the bite incident and that it wasn't reported.

I spoke with the director along with the teachers. While my husband and I like the teachers (the one saving grace of this pre-k is the teachers), the director has made it plain that she does not care about any of our concerns. When I told the director that I wanted to withdraw my son, she said, "Ok. I'll make a copy of your papers for you." The teachers are the ones who are concerned, I feel that they truly care about my son, even if their opinions differ from mine.

I have no personal experience with his age as my child is younger, but it seems to me the reasons you began looking for another school have not changed. I would ignore the adults at your son's old school, and focus on your son's experience of school and whether he likes it or appears to be gaining something from it, or not. You and your son know your son best.

Personally I'd ask him to try the new one for some predetermined amount of time and if that one isn't working either for whatever reason (could be some as yet undetermined completely different issue) not make him miserable by insisting he continue, unless he is super shy and you don't trust his judgement about it. As you said pre-k is not compulsory and your need is really just social exposure.

There are lots of ways to get social experiences where he has to fend for himself amongst a group of peers, you could have him attend summer daycamps next summer, classes, etc. (And for non school things you are allowed if you choose to fudge about the birthday too so that he can be with slightly older kids, a possibility I learned about on this board and fully intend to take advantage of next summer so my DS can attend more interesting camps than he might otherwise).

Polly

I would like to thank everyone for their advice! We are going to give the Montessori school a try, and we have reserved the right to withdraw him (we're paying month-to-month). We'll see how it goes. Of course, the Montessori thread has given me pause as to whether this is the right course as well! However, as it is a new school and they are seeking new students (and the director seems very amenable to helping us) I'm hoping that this will be a good fit.

I didn't mean to sound too vehement, but honestly if your child was bitten hard enough to bruise someone really should have seen it. That's why the adult/child ratio is so high, to prevent and/or catch these events and work with the children to stop the unacceptable behavior from re-occurring. Many care settings will ask a parent to pull their child if biting becomes a habit. Catching such behavior and modifying it is a common job in care settings.

One way or the other I personally think you made the right decision.

Mama, if you have a good feeling about the school, that is a good sign.

In my limited experience, schools actively seeking students because they don't have quite as many as they would like can tend put more energy into trying to serve their students. As long as they're not dead broke and going under or overwhelmed by recruiting, it's hopeful.

Just be sure to get a good read on the *teachers*. They're the ones in the classroom, so unless they're on board and excited to meet your child's needs, it won't happen. The director can tell you anything, but if the teachers don't toe the line, nothing else really matters.

I have heard that being the victim of a bully is a common reason why kids this age wish 'they were never born.' Seems to me that your son having this level of anger at the school is a sign of something bad. Not sure what, but what difference does it make? School, at this age, is supposed to be fun. Really!

He doesn't seem to have any trouble seperating from you, and althrough you and your DH aren't great role models of sociability, perhaps your mom and MIL are better at it?

In the end, there is plenty of good reason for some highly gifted people to be unsocial - they have never found a group of people that are enjoyable and safe to be around. You may actually be a very social person, but have made a decision quite early that most people are boring and dangerous, and so, gotten in the habit of being closed mouthed. Try hanging out here and seeing if you have an undiscovered side to yourself! Or you might just be happy with your own company and that's good too!

Smiles and Welcome,
Grinity

While that is logical, there's no way he bit himself. The bite was on the shoulder at an angle that he would've had to have removed his head to reach. Also, the girl admitted to the bite. The school "spoke to the parents and the child, making certain that she understands that it is not appropriate to bite."

Thanks for the welcome! I do enjoy people but have always been a bit shy and reserved (though this has lessened over the years). My husband, however, is a self-confirmed misanthrope. He has been making efforts to take our son to the park, etc., however, most social situations depend upon me. My mother is much like me, or rather, my husband and I are much like each of our mothers. My son is wonderfully social with those he is comfortable with. It takes him a while to warm up to people, but when he is comfortable, he will play and joke. He has a great sense of humor and loves jokes, puns, etc. I just wish I hadn't misplaced that Magic Mommy Wand and could wave it and make it all better!

If you find that wand, pass it around, would you?

Well, yesterday he tried out the new school . . . and loved it! I'm sooooo glad! My husband loved the school, too - he said everything about it is the complete polar opposite of the other school. It's calm, the director and teachers are warm and loving, and the other children immediately wanted to make my son feel welcome. Time will tell whether this remains the ideal environment or becomes too rigid as others have experienced with Montessori, but my slow-to-try-new-things son actually WANTED to go back! I asked him whether he liked the new school or the old one better, and he liked the new one. Then I asked what he liked the best, and he replied, "the playground." I asked him what he didn't like, and he said, "there's nothing I don't like." Yea!!!

Kriston, I will definitely share if I ever find it!

Yippee! That's music to my ears. What a relief!
Smiles,
Grinity

I knew it! I'm looking forward to seeing you grow into yourself over the next few years - yippee! The Swans have arrived!

Smiles,
Grinity

Oh, yay! I'm so glad for him, Mama.

The "mama gut" is a wonderful piece of equipment and accurate 99.9% of the time.

Yeah...this is great!

That is terrific news about the new school! My son sounds a lot like yours. As a result of some famil moves, he attended two different preschools, Kindy in one place and then we moved again. What became clear was that he is selective about who he engages with. The second preschool wasn't much fun for him. It was hightly structured and... rather sterile. Well run, though. Some kids really loved it, but it didn't work for him, and there weren't many kids he could relate to. He met some other boys in kindergarten who while not academically similar, enjoyed his sense of humor and had simialr imaginations. Suddenly he started having a grand time with the kids - but he still wandered away to play by himself when he needed some quiet. All was well, socially, at least.

I hope your sons' new school does the same thing for your DS, and he finds children and teachers to connect with.

Well, it's been one week, and I think all is well. DS has shown some resistance to going to school ("I don't want to go," "Why do I have to go to school"), but I think that's normal for a child who doesn't like change. We haven't had any claims of extreme dislike, as we did with the previous school. When pressed if there's anything he doesn't like about the school, on Monday, he said, "there's nothing I don't like." Wednesday, I asked him what the best part of his day was, and he said "snack." When I asked him what the worst part of his day was, he said, "there is no worst part." Thursday morning he said he didn't like having to do things "gently," but that is his worst complaint so far. The teachers say that he is speaking with all of the children there, and so far, the environment is very nurturing. Time will tell if this is the "right" place, but so far, we are so happy! Thank you all for your insight!

Mama, I am so happy that things seem to be working out and that you are all happy so far. It is only normal to have a little resistance to change (I have two DS's who don't like change!), but very good news that there is no strong dislike of anything. Yay!

Trust your instincts. Your child may just need a little help socially. Help him out. Teach him out to make friends. Tell him its ok if some kids do not like him and that it is hard work to make friends.

DS4 is reading at the second\third grade level and no other kid in his class at his level of reading or math but it does not bother him when it comes to making friends. Friendship is more about caring and sharing and playing together nicely. For intellectaul stimulation we are there for him. We do not know what lies in the future but so far he seems more interested in what other kids can teach him like a new soccer trick or a new game or some interesting stories about their family, their birthdays etc. Just so you know he goes to a montessori school.

I just saw your post and am also in GA. My DS is 4.5. We have not found a proper fit, even in a Montessori. If your son is also a fast learner, you may want to ask the Montessori if they can keep up with it and continue to give him lesson after lesson. The one we tried was not able to; and they didn't have the man-power to keep him busy. You may take this post as from one who was desperate to find a good school fit for socialization only. He ended up with mostly non-age peers (younger) and the only time they socialized was at "recess," since they are to be quiet while working. Some Montessori's have GA-Pre-K programs as well, as ours did; but our teacher acted like a Mom and was wishy-washy with her discipline. My DS is strong-willed and needs to know his boundaries. They couldn't do it. My child is now traumatized and extremely upset with me because we were disciplining him when the fit was not good. They kept telling me that they just couldn't keep him busy enough...and we offered to give them materials when he finished his "lessons." He became extremely frustrated with everything. He also wasn't allowed to touch anything that he hadn't had a lesson on; and he didn't want to re-do the simple things they started him out with (like the other kids did). It was pretty much "been there, done that" with him. He did all they gave him and then tried to get out of the room to look for something else to do. Although my DS is strong-willed; he is generally compliant at home. I don't want to sound negative and hope that you found a great fit for him!!!; but as you can ask the regulars on here, see how he feels at around 6 weeks when the newness wears off. I wish you the best of luck and well-wishes. I am in Cherokee County if you are looking for a playdate.;) Shoot me a private message if you wish.

This was my story, to a T. The "wishing I wasn't born" etc. when it came to preschool and how much she despised it. Turned out it was a BAD fit for her and she was WAY under challenged. We pulled her out and put her in a more academically fit preschool (though I can't say it was enough for her, it was an improvement from where she was.) Things went well for the rest of the half of that school year and went well into the first half of the second year, then went sour again. We had a LONG hurdle to overcome again (enlisted in the help of a counselor, which was a WASTE of time, because everything they suggested I was already trying.) We stopped that and went at it ourselves again and progressed. Now, in elementary school, things are great!!!!! Preschool was just.... not enough but we stayed with our own age group, though she could easily accelerate, we are working within the current class to offer what she needs and so far so good. She's now in 2nd grade..... THIS TOO, SHALL PASS!

Well, my son still likes his new school! The teachers state that he is interacting well with the other children. They are also addressing his motor skills (which lag far behind his academic skills) and have made suggestions to us on how we can help him. While I don't know yet how long this will last, it is sooooo vastly different from his previous school. Mom0405 - that sounds great! I live in Gwinnett, we'll have to find a place somewhere in between. Bh - I'm sorry you had to go through this too! It's not fun, but like Kriston says, you have to go with your Mama gut!

Yippee! Great News!

Yes, good stuff!

I am soooo glad that it is working out!!! I apologize if I sounded pessimistic, truly.

All of a sudden my DS's gross motor skills and desire to climb more and jump off things appeared just about a yera ago.:) All the asyncrony, I guess.

I am in a little turmoil over things on my end right now. As far as the playdate goes, a good, calm yet crazy-fun, non-rough, happy, running playdate is what my DS really needs.:)