Well we finished our preschool tours (we went to three). We went to one montessori school and two play-based preschools.

Of course dd liked the play-based preschools-they were full of toys and art supplies. One of the play-based preschools was a bit more structured than the other, but still a lot of free play and creative play. The other play-based preschool had pretty much no structure. The kids chose what to do and when to do it. They could go outside at any time, paint/art at any time, snack at any time etc etc. The outside facilities were amazing. I have never seem a preschool with such a huge natural area to play outside. Dd did not want to leave there. The inside was like a giant kindergym, full of bright colours and pretend play. She loves "cooking" in the kitchen and "feeding" the dolls (both preschools has beautiful interiors). My concern with that preschool is how she would do with no structure. I worry she would feel lost...but maybe that is just how I would feel! Similarly, the more structured play-based preschool has all 40 kids (2 rooms of 20) go outside at the end of the day together. I can't see her enjoying playing on the playground with 39 other kids...it would be too busy for her.

The Montessori school was VERY interesting. I liked some of the rooms and some of the rooms were almost creepy (a couple of weird teachers and gloomy rooms). All of the preschool rooms were wonderful. They were brighy and colourful and the teachers were warm and kind. Dd absolutly loved it there and 2 days later is still talking about it, wanting to go back. She was so interested in all of the activities they had set up. She was not clingy, she talked to the teachers, she tried everything she could. Now this was during an open house so the room was not full of kids, but in terms of the environment she loved it.

Sooooo she liked all of the environments, but the play-based preschools were so similar to everything we already do. The montessori was quite different and I think that interested her. They have to wear uniforms at the Montessori school...not sure how well that will go over with a 2/3 year old. They have absolutely NO toys there. No dolls, no lego, no play kitchen etc. The outside area for the preschoolers is just a courtyard with a sandbox and a couple of bikes. No climber, slide, playhouse etc.

Soo hmmmm. She likes them both, but I think she likes the Montessori better and she was very comfortable there...but I am not sure if I like it for her!

What would you do?? Someone just tell me what to pick! PLease!!!! I'm driving myself nuts. I have to put her name down somewhere either tomorrow or monday because schools are filling up. At least half of the preschools in the city are full already and for some of them people were putting their names down before they were even pregnant! So 7 months before the program starts is definitely pushing it.

P.S. I am sorry...I am sure you are all sick of this topic from me! It is just consuming me right now, so I keep posting about it. Sorry!

You mentioned the Montessori teachers were warm and kind but nothing about the other teachers. Maybe that's a sign.

If I had those choices for my DS at your DD's age, there's no question i'd go with the unstructured place at least for the first year of preschool. My DS does not particularly like conforming. And we've been pretty unstructured with him all along. But once your DD gets closer to "real school" you may want to find a place that offers at least some structure so she'll know what's expected in school. But in our experience, 2 years of fairly structured preschool (those mostly play-based), has been overkill.

Sorry I can't help more - what does your gut say?

Well, unfortunately I can't answer the question for you. It's a tough one that I went through this year as well. We started the year with a play-based non-structured program. He loved aspects of it, but there truly were no limits and he acted out a lot. He actually was kicked out by the program director (they were understaffed, and she didn't want to deal with anything). Then we went to a play-based program that had less children, more structure and limits and he did well there with behavior, but had no challenges at all and he is not really one of those kids that likes to play with legos or toys so that wasn't really his thing (but he loved the gym to play and jump in), and now we just started Montessori last week. In retrospect I should have started with this first as I did know it was the best, but it wasn't the most convenient and it was the most expensive, etc. Those manipulatives are made for him, plus they go outside every day even in the snow so he really likes that. So we love the montessori school he is at now. We really did like his last structured play-based preschool too...but it wasn't the best fit for him. His teacher really liked him and was amazed by him. She tried to do some things at his level and worked individually with him, but she said she could tell that times during circle time and other times it was just so below his level that he would get really antsy and start being silly. I think it would be a good fit for some gifted children. It's a tough decision I know, I guess what you need to ask yourself is what your goal of preschool is for your DD, and what place you feel would best meet that goal. From your post it sounds like you liked the Montessori the best, but liked some of the toys and play areas at the other places. I will agree that they look more like a typical preschool than Montessori does. Anyhow, hope that is somewhat helpful.

It sounded from your post like you are leaning toward the Montessori - and you said your daughter wants to return to that school. I've been researching Montessori quite a bit, as we are considering it for both of our girls for next year (PS and K). I don't think it's a great choice beyond 1st or 2nd grade, but for the early years I think it sounds great (IF the school truly adheres to actual Montessori methods and allows the child to go beyond what is normally considered "age-appropriate" material when necessary).

Have you considered talking to other parents who send their children to each school? Sometimes people with similar parenting philosophies provide the best insight, so if you know someone at any of the schools, ask for their honest feedback.

Good luck - I know what you're going through right now!!

thank you all

My gut says keep her at home! But I don't want to keep her at home! If she wants to go to school, I want the break. I need the break! The montessori school visit was during an open house, so we did get a chance to speak with the teachers a lot, but the other preschool visits were guided tours during preschool time, so we didn't actually speak with the teachers a lot at all (just the director that gave us the tours). So this weekend we are going to the open houses at those 2 preschools. Dd will have a chance to play with the toys and talk with the teachers, so we will see how that goes.

I have spoken with a lot of parents that sent their kids to the play based preschools (via my local, online, parents forum) and they both get great great reviews. One of them is often mentioned as the best preschool in the city. The morning programs at that school are full, but there may be space in the afternoon. The Montessori school gets good reviews from the parents that have kids there, but i have only spoken with 2 families that have kids attending. The rest of the parents on that forum are, generally, against Montessori school for preschool. It is "too structured" for their liking.

Anyhow, thank you all again. We will see how the open houses go tomorrow and then on Monday we will register somewhere, unless we fall in love with a school at the open house and in that case we'll register tomorrow.

I can not wait to have a decision made!

I had my dd in a Montessori preschool for 3 years, she transitioned to a public school now. My ds3 just started the Monetssori preschool at the age of 3. I can't say enough good words about the Montessori preschool, and amazingly, it fits both my kids (one is the studious type, the other one an anarchic devil). But, in the end, it is only the TEACHER that matters. Follow your gut feeling about the teacher. The bad thing is that in regular preschools, teachers change quite often, you might like them in Sept, but somebody else might be there in Dec. In my experience, the Montessori school was way stable. Beware, though, my dd went through a shock moving to first grade. In many senses. The Monessori school gave her education to last her through 3-rd grade (she learns absolutely nothing in 1-st grade). But it taught her to be independent and follow what she feels like. That does not mesh well with a public school. And no, I will never regret havign put her in a Montessori preschool. I might consider following up with a few more grades of elementary Montessori school. But, again, BEWARE: I have heard parents who have bad experiences with Montessori schools, because teh teacher was in a sense or another limiting the kid. Talk more to the Montessori teacher and ask her about her phylosophy about "age apropriate" things.

Hahah. I can totally relate. I had both my DS in Montessori, and I have a little devil as well.

I agree with idh, it is the TEACHER that matters. We love the philosophy, but it is harder to find true Montessori schools or good after the primary community (i.e. lower and upper elementary).

I, or rather DD, was one with very bad experience in a Montessori school and yes, at the end it is the teacher that matters. I would ask if she would be allowed to do activities even if the teacher thinks they are too hard your your DD and if the teacher would be flexible to combine 2 or 3 presentations into one.
As well, in a Montessori environment the child is supposed to do activity 1, then activity 2, then 3, etc. in a very structured way. So I would ask if DD could jump steps and go to the 3 directly.
I would buy books on Montessori method and tried to get as educated on them as you can, almost as if you were becoming a teacher. That way, you understand much better the method and your gut feeling will tell you if this will work on your DD. Do not ignore your gut feeling. I did and it was a very bad idea...

Thank you for this. I did ask the teachers if she would be allowed to move onto a task in which she had not completed the prerequisite taks for and the answer was no. They said they need to see "for their charts" (?) that she can complete the easier tasks. They said they would not make her do them over and over, but she shoul dshow them she has the easier (I'm not sure if easier was the word they used) tasks mastered.

I think the reason I like the Montessori idea is because of the environment. It is different from what we do all week. The other preschools look like kindergym/playgroup and we do that...a lot. I thought she might enjoy something a little bit different and a little bit challenging. I also liked the fact that she would be learning some academics because she really has a need to learn, and honestly, it gets tiring for me to constantly teach!

I don't know. Basically I am still at square one!

I second this as well!

Also, what is VERY informative is just sitting in the class observing. (If you have the luxury of time) Just sitting for a while "like a fly on the wall" can tell you way more about how the teachers conduct themselves with the kids than pat answers to questions.


By itself, this is a red flag


Only a little reassuring.

This may sound insensitive but the only way you will know for sure is to try it. And then give it a month or two.

If she *hates* you could pull her out quickly.
Or she might like it. If for nothing else than the novelty (as it is different than what you usally do)

My DSalmost5 loves his Montessori and it was a life saver for us. But I think in some ways, he is ready to move on soon.
Nothing is fixed for very long with some of our kids.

Do you think the potential positives for your daughter outweigh the potential negatives? If you are very aware of the what the negatives are you should be able to catch them if they crop up.

Thank you. I have an appointment to sit in on the class on Friday, so that should be interesting. I was hoping to have made up my mind before that though, but it may just not be possible. I have another appointment tomorrow at the other preschool we are looking at, just to go have another look at it. This other preschool is filling up quickly and there are only a handful of positions available so that is what the pressure is right now.

Anyhow...maybe the answer will come to me in a dream tonight, wouldn't that be nice!

and hmmm the potential positives versus the potential negatives...I just don't know. There are such different pro's and con's for both schools, it is almost hard to compare. Something to think about though, thanks!

Lovely discription EastnWest!

It doesn't matter what people SAY about what they do, it matters what they do. So spend time watching each environment in action, under normal circumstances.

It's funny to me how the concerns change when one is looking back on things.

Here's what I want to know!

a) If you don't like whatever program you choose - how long to you have to keep paying for it?

b) If you have to join a program mid year - will any be availible?

c) How long a day is it?

d) How many days a week?

e) are any of the programs such that she will be able to interact with older children?

f) Does the Montessori Program seem to feature activities that would be at a good readiness level for your DD? Is your DD wildly asynchronous in the areas that the Montessori is teaching?

g) You say that the playbased preschool is 'just like what she's already done' - do you mean that she has interacted with others and done stuff like that without you or that you have dones stuff like that 'you and her?' If she's only done it with you before, perhaps it's a good 'babystep' for her to do what she knows without you? I don't know that answer, but I do know that it makes a big difference. Watching her with the Teachers will show a lot.

Personally when 'professionals' start talking about 'for the charts' I see flashing red lights and want to run in the other direction, because I am dealing with someone who is 'administering a system' instead of allowing themselves to connect with a living human. Was it the 'head teacher' who said that? It takes careful observation and imagination to 'know' a child, not following a manual. OTOH, if your daughter is perhaps on the young side, and is natually ready to fit their system, perhaps it would work well in spite of the ridgidity.

My kid was very very ansychronous, so that's why the flashing red lights.

It sounds like you are looking to start in September...is there any way she can sign up for a few sessions of each in advance? Can she start in September in two places and transition if needed?

One more thought. My son enjoyed every school environment he was ever in - for the first 6 weeks. When he likes something, he LOVES it, when he dislikes something, he CANT BEAR it. He's not a Drama Queen, and is quite stoic in his approach, but his feeling tend to be very strong. So watch her reactions, but if you have to committ for any length of time, throw in a heavy does of 'Mom Sense.'

Best Wishes,
grinity

Onsie -
I know that you are ready to have some of the weight lifted, but think very carefully if you want the weight lifted from the academic area or the social area. My hunch is that anyone with a child who is in the 'top 3%' type of gifted is best to let the weight lift from the social area and save themselves for the academic area.

Perhaps another thread can be started looking for ideas about homeschooling activities that suit your family? Same basic advice - intead of waiting for school to solve your challenge, reach out and look for new oportunities to make it work for you 'right now!' As young as she is, you can just start her on workbooks from the local bookstore, and see if she likes them! The goal is to get to know yourselves - her as a learner, you as sidekick.

Smiles,
grinity

I just joined this group and saw this post. My thoughts may echo those of others. My older son, now 12, had an absolutely wonderful exerience in a Montessori primary school his kindergarten year (he turned 5 in September of that year). I thought Montessori was a good fit for him, and if there had been the opportunity he'd have been in a Montessori school sooner. I never told the teachers I thought he was gifted, but they figured it out pretty fast.

They let him work at his own pace, and while they encouraged him to explore different areas they didn't coerce. They did ask all children to finish one material before going to another, but "finish" meant work to what the child perceived as a stopping point then put the material away. (I wish the putting things away when he's done lesson had stuck!)
When I observed the classroom in the middle of the year (through a one-way glass) some of the younger kids were spending 5-10 minutes on a material and other kids were working on the same thing the whole time I watched. Some were working together, some alone, and some working alone would stop to talk to each other or look at what others were doing, then go back to work.

The teachers actually had to make an exception to the rule for my son because several times during the year he gave himself projects that would last several weeks (they could leave mats out overnight). He was allowed to leave one of these projects to work only on materials set up for two or more children, then come back to his own work. I don't think that was a pre-existing policy -- but the teachers were flexible enough to see that it was appropriate and wouldn't seem unfair to other children. He really did have a goal in mind for when a project was "finished" and wouldn't stop until he reached it. I see that as a good lesson -- better than dashing something off for an arbitrary deadline even if it's not really done.

So I'd also see the "checking things off" as a red flag. Even in a large Montessori school teachers should be able to circulate and see what children are doing. They should be able to see and note which children give up on a material when it gets hard and perhaps suggest an easier material or else offer encouragement to stick it out longer -- but still let the child make the call. They need to be asking themselves why the child isn't "finishing."

As you probably know, "Montessori" isn't a copyrighted name and there are several large organizations with somewhat different approaches that train and certify Montessori teachers (as well as some schools that don't have Montessori trained teachers at all). Most Montessori schools allow parents and prospective parents to observe the classroom, sometimes from behind a one-way glass. If you can do this at the school you're looking at I think a lot of your questions might be answered. Look at the kids and look at how the teachers are interacting with them -- and ask questions if you don't understand what you see.

Also, my understanding is that Maria Montessori thought it was a good thing to have a large number of kids with different abilities and personalities in the classroom and also to have children of different ages together. That was part of the learning experience. It's easy to draw a distinction between "play-based" and "academic" preschools. In a good Montessori school, in my opinion, the distinction should be somewhat blurred. The kids should feel they're playing (albeit with some rules/procedures) and the "work" shouldn't be coerced on them. Maybe like the kind of workplace where it seems the adults are actually having fun . . . .

As for after Montessori -- I did end up homeschooling my son in the third grade (second in math) because he was so far ahead of even what gifted programs offered. But that may have been him and not the Montessori school. We moved away from the town where he went to kindergarten and more Montessori wasn't even an option. The Montessori teachers had been concerned at the midyear that he wasn't doing enough math, but as a sixth grader last year he went to national MathCounts and had the state high scores on two levels of AMC tests (8 and 10). Their patience let his interest in math come when he was ready -- and paid off.

Hope some of this helps.

Sing it, sister!

In our mid-year conference at the Montessori pre-K, when DH and I were griping that DS7 (then 4.5yo) wasn't being allowed to read yet though he was reading simple chapter books at home, the teacher said that he hadn't been "checked off" for the pre-reading exercises. The sticking point was the "sound boxes," boxes containing little items that all started with the same sound. He had been doing work like that for literally 2/3 of his life, if not more! It was not interesting to him, he had done it once already but the teacher didn't check him off for some reason, so he just wasn't interested in doing it again. He wasn't allowed to do anything else until he completed that task, so he just skipped the language arts center altogether and did other things. The teacher actually thought he was BEHIND in reading! Clueless!

"We know he can do the sound boxes," said the teacher, "but he hasn't completed them for me."

"If you know he can do them," said my highly logical DH, "then why do you need to check him off? Isn't the point of the checking off that you know he can do them?"

Faced with our insistence and logic--and the voice of a man, I suspect, which makes my feminist blood boil!--they finally (FINALLY!) caved and let him skip something. Not everything--he still had to do a bunch of pre-reading nonsense that he'd mastered years earlier, but they finally let go of the sound boxes. I suspect they also started watching him more closely, probably in the hopes of proving us wrong, frankly. But it worked in DS's favor because they saw we were right.

DS leapt ahead, and by the end of the year, he was the only kid in the whole school who didn't have to read a book twice to be checked off for it. They finally got that if he did it, it was really done. *sigh* It only took 3/4 of the year...

To this day, DH and I call any dumb hurdle that an educator won't let go of, no matter how pointless for the particular child, a "sound box."

Hi -

Just wanted to add that I know it must be hard to wait all the way until Friday to get the additional info. Hang in there!

Now that you have another school to look at, that can be a healthy distraction.

- EW

Thank you for this reply:)


Well, I went for another visit at the playbased preschool and registered dd there. it is only $25 to register, so I can easily change my mind. I asked a lot more questions about the schedule and the particulars of it all and I do feel really comfortable sending her there. it looks like so much fun...but even as I type that I wonder if it is still too much of what we already do. Who knows.

You have some good questions Grinity...
a. I have to keep paying for teh programs for 2 months after I give notice. The program are about the same price and 2 months would cost around $300...not a huge problem.

b.Mid year is not a problem at either school, but it would be in the afternoon program, as the monrings fill up.

c. 2 hours (montessori), or 2.5 hours (playbased) per day.

d. 2 days a week

c.right now, most of the montessori room looks like it would be a nice challenge for dd. Even the language centre focuses on cursive and we have not touched that, so she may not even recognize many of the letters.

d. The playbased preschool is exactly what we already do, but you are right she is always with me. There are toys (free play), snack time, gym or outside time and circle time. Circle time consists of a coupel of songs and then learning about numbers, letters and colours (she will be bored but it is only 15 minutes or so).

The play based preschool starts a couple of months later than the montessori because she must be 3 to start in the playbased school...so she couldn't start in both in september.

When the teacher told me about the proper order for completeing the tasks etc, something inside me defintely didn't like that. I don't see how a 3 year old would enjoy being told, no you can't do that right now you have to do this taks first. I just don't think it would go over very well...but then again I have no idea what dd will be like in that setting. She is not able to have a trial run for a day or two, unfortunatley...they just don't allow it.

EastnWest thank you for the posts. It is hard to wait, I definitely want to just make a decision, but I will wait. You are right that watching the teachers/kids in action will be much more telling than just talking to them about it.

thanks for the advice!

BlueMorpho and Kriston- Thank you!
Thank you for sharing your experiences...I know every school is different and every child is different, but itis SO helpful to read about what you and your kids went through.

I guess one thing I am struggling with is the feeling that I would be holding her back is I send her to a play based school. She is a smart girl and she loves to learn. I don't always have the energy to teach her everything she could happily absorb. In fact I rarely teach her! Grinity made a good point about letting the preschool be about playing/socializing and doing the teaching at home (something to that effect) and that is a wonderful idea, I just hope I do as good of a job as the Montessori school could potentially do. I know she has potential and I don't want to make a decision that could result in her not living up to her potential...at the same time I want her to be a child and play, dream and imagine and not worry about learning. Hmmm I don't knwo what i am trying to say...but thank you for the posts!

Two suggestions, and I hope I'm not overstepping my bounds here:

Don't think of play-based preschools as necessarily being "not learning." According to child development experts, 3yos usually learn best through play. Many of us had wonderful experiences with kids in half-day play-based preschools. The painting and drawing, the board games, the time for imaginative play, the building with blocks, the play with textural toys like clay, "space mud," and rice and sand, the playground time (and so on) are all good experiences for 2-5yo kids of ANY level of intellectual development. They're flexible with what a child is learning at the time. And they're often mostly absent from a Montessori experience. Are they better than a Montessori experience? Well, that depends on the school, the teacher and the child. But I definitely wouldn't recommend assuming that a child will just be killing time in a play-based pre-K. I don't think that's true. Again, it depends on the school, the teacher and the child!

Also, don't think of it as "teaching at home," but following your daughter's lead. Do you read to her? Do you talk about things that interest you? Do you answer her questions? Do you take her to stores, museums, the zoo, the park? Do you let her help you cook, do laundry, clean house? Do you have puzzles and books and games for her to play with? All of these are great ways for a preschooler to learn. Just because you don't have a workbook open doesn't mean you're not teaching.

The Montessori method is great, but please don't think that it is necessarily "better" than other pre-Ks just on its face. I'm afraid you're buying into the method more than thinking about what will work best for your particular child. If the school and the teacher are better, great. But if you are assuming that Montessori is about learning and play-based pre-K is a waste of time, I think you have it wrong.

No offense intended there. I just don't want you to think about this in a way that maybe isn't productive for your daughter.

P.S. Also, as for not having the energy, remember that she'd be gone for half the day. That should help, right?

LOL Onsie! Sign her up for both - you could use the break! Then you can see how she is doing 6 months later and move her over 'depending' - our kids tend to be the 'one from column A' and 'two from column B' types anyway!

Of course, dear, 2 hours, after the drive and the 'get out of the house' isn't really much of a break! But it's something!

Smiles,
Grintiy

Thank you all so much for the advice. I/we (but mostly I) spent the last week visiting a few more preschools and thinking hard about what to do. I can't enrol her in both preschools for a few reasons. The montessori preschool and the other preschool overlap in terms of days/times. The other reason is cost. We could do a 4 or a 5 day (half days) program at either school, but to split it up between schools becomes very expensive. But anyhow...I have made a decision. Dd is going to go to a playbased preschool in the Fall...well if she wants to, but we are going to give it a shot. I really do like the preschool we have chosen. They do so many fun things...theme days, parties, christmas concert, field trips etc. My only concern is that at the end of the day both preschool rooms (there are 2 programs running concurrently) go outside, or into the gym to play. That is 40 kids. I think that might be a bit overwhelming for dd. My overprotective, paranoid side also thinks that supervision might be tricky during this time and so that is a worry as well. But, I went to this preschool as did my younger brother and many classmates...we're all still alive, so I suppose it will be ok!

I am still going to check out a couple more preschools, but they will all be playbased and I am really happy with that. She has a lot ot learn, besides academics and this will be a fun environment to do so...I hope! And, worst case senario...it doesn't work. No big deal, she can stay hoem iwth me and we can do some more mom and tot programs.

So thank you thank you thank you. I am really happy with this!

I'm glad you found a choice you're happy with, whatever the choice!

I am glad you've made a decision. That's always the most difficult part. I too like the theme days and I think DS4 really missed out not having them last year. Montessori was way to serious for me, play based PreK is just that, play and fun.

I hope your daughter likes it there and the transitions isn't hard on either one of you.