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Posted By: funtimes private school concerns - 01/06/16 01:57 PM
Hi all!
We are considering a private school for 3rd grade for 1 or both of our twins. (most likely just one as i don't see the other wanting to make a change- and he's doing well where he is!)
This school would be a GT school where the kids work at their own pace per subject. I do have concerns regarding what basics would be missed and how important ( if at all) that is in the long run. Does anyone have suggestions on questions to ask about curriculum? How difficult is it to re-acclimate to a traditional school setting for high school or college? Any suggestions or advice welcome.
Posted By: playandlearn Re: private school concerns - 01/06/16 02:21 PM
I'm sure this varies from school to school, but I will share our experience with you.

I think 3rd grade is not an issue, because it is easy to go back to traditional schools at lower grades. I think you need to be more careful once the kids are in middle school.

My DS was in a private GT school for part of his middle school, and it was a huge disappointment. The kids were supposed to work at their own pace. This works well only for kids who are strongly motivated. But for anyone who is not, there is little accountability and many kids there lacked very basic skills and basic work ethic. DS was very frustrated in an environment where everyone talked the right talk but the kids didn't learn anything. He did a lot of self study and was academically advanced. But when he came back to a traditional school, he did briefly have a tough time getting into the routine (following rubric, etc).

When we looked at the private school, we asked to see their students' work samples and the school refused. Some academic information that they gave us was also misleading (we found out later). I'd say you can ask to see their homework assignments, textbooks if any, student work samples, and maybe even standardized test scores if they have any.
Posted By: ConnectingDots Re: private school concerns - 01/06/16 03:39 PM
I would ask if there are parents you can speak with (often, some have volunteered to share their experiences) before making a decision.
Posted By: Kai Re: private school concerns - 01/06/16 05:54 PM
Do the students really work at their own pace, or are they placed into a level and then work at the pace of the class they're in? If it is the former, I wouldn't worry about missing basics because presumably they will start at their level and move forward in a sequential manner. If it is the latter, then there is a possibility of gaps--but there is an even bigger possibility that the class ends up moving too slowly. For whatever reason, many gifted schools/programs think it is enough to put kids in a class one or two levels up and then move at a one year per grade pace from there. Also, make sure that their idea of having students move at their own pace isn't just sticking them in front of a computer and watching Khan Academy videos. I'd also ask for a resource list.

As for reintegrating into a traditional school setting--if the kids really are allowed to go at their own pace, many of them will be working 2-4 (or more) years ahead by the time they finish middle school. Many high schools have strict rules about what freshmen can take--for example, the high school in my town didn't until recently allow freshmen and sophomores to take AP classes or math higher than Algebra II.

And regarding the curriculum--I'd ask to see their curriculum map (it will probably be a large document so they might just let you look at it on site). You want to know whether they have an overarching plan both within each level and from grade to grade. You also should ask to see a resource list (which might be part of the curriculum map--but a separate document that you can take home would be better). You want to see that they have been thoughtful in the selection of the resources they use. The other reason to ask for a curriculum map and resource list is that their ability to produce them lets you know something about how organized the administration is and how well they are translating their vision into action.
Posted By: playandlearn Re: private school concerns - 01/06/16 07:02 PM
Originally Posted by ConnectingDots
I would ask if there are parents you can speak with (often, some have volunteered to share their experiences) before making a decision.

The school will probably let you talk with parents who really like the school... We talked with a couple of parents when we checked out the private school that turned out to be a big disappointment. We later got to know families who disliked the school and those those who have left (because they were disappointed).
Posted By: ConnectingDots Re: private school concerns - 01/06/16 07:54 PM
Originally Posted by playandlearn
Originally Posted by ConnectingDots
I would ask if there are parents you can speak with (often, some have volunteered to share their experiences) before making a decision.

The school will probably let you talk with parents who really like the school... We talked with a couple of parents when we checked out the private school that turned out to be a big disappointment. We later got to know families who disliked the school and those those who have left (because they were disappointed).

Certainly a possibility, but we had a good experience -- a lot comes down to what it is you are trying to learn, perhaps. In our case, there were very specific things that had been issues at the last school we were trying to avoid.
Posted By: VR00 Re: private school concerns - 01/07/16 03:48 PM
Originally Posted by Kai
Many high schools have strict rules about what freshmen can take--for example, the high school in my town didn't until recently allow freshmen and sophomores to take AP classes or math higher than Algebra II.

I have heard of this in number of high schools. So what do kids do when they subject accelerate and you hit high school? Assuming you do not grade skip do you just repeat all the subjects all over again. It would be painful for a number of kids.
Posted By: Kai Re: private school concerns - 01/07/16 04:06 PM
Originally Posted by VR00
Originally Posted by Kai
Many high schools have strict rules about what freshmen can take--for example, the high school in my town didn't until recently allow freshmen and sophomores to take AP classes or math higher than Algebra II.

I have heard of this in number of high schools. So what do kids do when they subject accelerate and you hit high school? Assuming you do not grade skip do you just repeat all the subjects all over again. It would be painful for a number of kids.

They didn't have to worry about subject accelerated kids from within the district, because they didn't allow subject acceleration (with the exception of allowing a few kids to take Algebra I in seventh grade). I'm not sure what they did with kids coming in from out of district or from private schools. My guess is that very few people ever challenged the policy. The district only changed its policy a few years ago because the state finally mandated that that gifted students be given opportunities for acceleration.
Posted By: notnafnaf Re: private school concerns - 01/07/16 04:30 PM
See if the school allows parents to shadow the class that your child would be going into too... I know the school that DD is at required all parents to shadow in all classrooms of relevant age and DS's school encouraged parents to shadow (I had seen parents once shadowing his class - their child ended up enrolling into his room). If they don't allow shadowing, that would be a concern to me.
Posted By: mom123 Re: private school concerns - 01/11/16 04:35 PM
Originally Posted by funtimes
Hi all!
We are considering a private school for 3rd grade for 1 or both of our twins. (most likely just one as i don't see the other wanting to make a change- and he's doing well where he is!)
This school would be a GT school where the kids work at their own pace per subject. I do have concerns regarding what basics would be missed and how important ( if at all) that is in the long run. Does anyone have suggestions on questions to ask about curriculum? How difficult is it to re-acclimate to a traditional school setting for high school or college? Any suggestions or advice welcome.

Most private schools will still do some type of assessment (ERB's) to make sure there are not any large gaps in their curriculum. Could you ask about ERB results? I would want to know about class size - in a large class it might be difficult to identify what any given child already knows/ needs to know.... a smaller classroom will better help teachers identify any gaps in knowledge. Our GT school has special classes/ sections of classes for transfer students to help bring them up to speed.
Posted By: ashley Re: private school concerns - 01/11/16 05:19 PM
If you have concerns regarding accelerated GT education creating gaps in your child's knowledge (this is what I understood from your OP) - then, ask them how they implement gifted education - ask if they compact a regular curriculum to do more than a year's worth in a year, if they skip certain parts of a curriculum to accelerate, if they pre-test before skipping and compacting, if they provide "depth" rather than speed in progression, if they do "enrichment" in addition to normal instruction or if they use specific methods catering to gifted kids (project based learning is one example). The best way to assess whether your child has gaps in knowledge or not is for them to take a standardized test (ERB or ITBS is what local private schools use). The standardized tests are a battery of tests that give a break down of scores in all the areas of learning that you can review to check for weaknesses. Standardized testing is done by most private schools and they use the results as part of their marketing strategy - so, they will share the school's performance by grade with you if you would like to know where the students of the school stand nationally.

As for switching over to traditional high school, it is going to be difficult if your child is ahead by more than 2 years in any subject. locally, I have heard of stories of kids switching over from private schools to PS for HS and having to repeat a large chunk of chemistry and biology because they seem to have covered most of the 9th grade material in 7th and 8th. But it really depends on the school district and its policies. Some districts allow kids to go over to AP level courses if they have transcripts proving that they have completed qualifying course work (not happening in my area, but, it might be possible elsewhere).
Posted By: VR00 Re: private school concerns - 01/11/16 10:21 PM
Ashley, this was my question as well. IF one is switching to private school which allows major acceleration it looks like it is a one way street, Not clear how one switches back to public school when they do not allow AP classed in freshman/sophomore year.
Posted By: ashley Re: private school concerns - 01/12/16 06:06 PM
Originally Posted by VR00
Ashley, this was my question as well. IF one is switching to private school which allows major acceleration it looks like it is a one way street, Not clear how one switches back to public school when they do not allow AP classed in freshman/sophomore year.

In some of the highly rated public high schools in my area, there are complaints that students have been allowed to skip levels in math but had to repeat biology, chemistry etc. to meet the PS prerequisites for AP sciences. Parents have lobbied with the school districts, gone to the local press etc. So, it depends on how the local public schools handle the issue (perception of unfair advantage to some, lack of post-AP level offerings are issues). In my opinion, high levels of acceleration in private schools will result in some repetition and time wasted in public high school. I don't understand what Dual Enrollment and Community College options might mean to such students. Maybe someone with knowledge on that topic will reply here.
Posted By: Val Re: private school concerns - 01/12/16 06:43 PM
Regarding the OP, it depends on when the student goes back to school and how formally the private school documents what the student did there and how well the student does on tests at the beginning of the new school year.

In my state at least, if a student skips a whole grade and changes schools, the school can't force the student to repeat the grade (kindergarten is an exception, I believe). My youngest worked a year ahead of a skip in a tiny private school and then moved to a medium-sized mainstream school. They accepted the skip but made her repeat some of the accelerated subjects.

My eldest homeschooled for a year and I taught him algebra 2. He went to the local high school for year after that. They wouldn't give him credit for algebra 2, but let him enroll in pre-calc. YMMV. He may have got lucky, because the decision maker's hair was on fire over something that day. I don't know. They would have accepted the algebra course had it been taken with an accredited organization.

Dual enrollment: again, it depends. In our district, students in college courses get something like 3 or 3.5 times the number of credits the high school would give for its course. This seems fair; my now dual-enrolled son took introductory chemistry for majors as a semester course, and it's reasonable that he should get way more credits for that semester than someone who covered less material in an entire year of high school chemistry.

I highly recommend dual enrollment. While some community college courses can be gut courses (especially some of the gen. ed. courses), HG+ students who choose their important courses carefully can end up with professors who are very knowledgeable and who can stretch them. My observation via my son: courses taught online aren't likely to stretch; courses where homework is done online (especially math, physics, or humanities) aren't likely to stretch. Asking other motivated students can be a good way to find the best professors. I'm referring to community colleges (well, maybe four-year-colleges too) here, not to gifted-oriented courses like those at AoPS or Stanford's EPGY & online high school.
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