So, just curious as to people's opinions here: Is an hour of math homework per night, each night, in 4th grade too much?

How many problems does he normally need to do? I have never seen an actual fourth or fifth grade math curriculum, but sometimes DD's little friend on our street who is in fourth grade brings over his math so DD can help him with it. The little I have seen is generally a worksheet with a front and back side. DS went straight from 2nd grade math to 5th/6th grade math and DD went from 3rd to 6th so I don't know what is "normal" for that grade. But even the 6th grade homework is just one sheet front and back (the Envision curriculum).

So the answer is, an hour is probably too much but does it take everyone that long, or is the child unfocused?

Depends on the nature of the homework, the interest of the child, whether this is typical for kids in the same classroom or whether it's this long because the kid is unfocused or struggling. Or is this additional homework from parents?

I let my DD10 (5th grade) do an hour of effective math a day, this includes the online math that she does at school. So if she uses the math time at school efficiently, she doesn't need to do any math after school. For her level of interest in math (somewhat interested, very strong math student, but definitely has other stronger interests), I think this is enough.

Unless the homework is taking an hour because the child is wasting time and generally avoiding it, yes. One hour is too long for a 4th grader to be spending every night on homework for a single subject. If the assignment is designed to take an hour, there needs to be a new design.

In general, yes, but also with a few exceptions. I think that more important than the actual amount of homework is to first understand - what are the teacher's expectations re how much time the homework should take, and is it taking your child a lot longer than anticipated? If it is, then dig into the "why".

Since I know your ds a bit, I'm guessing he might be spending longer on his homework than other students due to 2e challenges (that aren't related to math). Writing out math homework takes our ds a really long time, so he typically will spend 2-3 times (or more) longer per assignment than other students in his class. This isn't related at all to his understanding of how to solve the problems, it's all related to his disability. When he was in elementary he didn't have much math homework, and what he did was easy (except explaining word problems lol), so we let him just skip whatever he wanted to skip. In middle school, a lot of the homework problems were repetitive, and he had an accommodation to skip as many as he needed to to save time, as long as he worked and understood at least one of each type of problem. Also during 6th grade he started using the computer to write out his math work. He dropped using the computer when he got to geometry just because he decided he'd rather use handwriting than mess with the computer - partly because he was using an iPad at school and he didn't want to carry about both his iPad and laptop. He's still using handwriting as he goes through his upper-level math courses, and his homework takes him at least 2-3 times as long as his classmates - but he is ok with that and made his own choice to continue that way for now. He is planning to reconsider using his laptop at some point in time.. but he hasn't had enough time to review the updates to efofex... possibly because math homework eats up so much of his time!

Sorry for the long ramble... I would not want my 4th grader spending an hour on math homework, unless they were really really excited about it.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Thanks all. Let me explain a bit about what is going on.

Well, in terms of un-focus, he used to be fine with homework. Back in the previous 3 years when it was just the practice envision sheets. He would usually get assigned the enrichment worksheet for homework each night. On certain days, he would get special homework that was from his enrichment pull-out, which, according to my husband, was usually poorly laid out or had poor directions but once figured out was also fine. He usually did the homework in one sitting in about 15 minutes - sometimes less. He would do mathnasium for enrichment about once a week as well and he would do math games on the internet.

Then, hit this year with this crazy, lazy teacher. She pulls off these very repetitive, very long worksheets off the internet (or from Target) and gives them for homework. It's usually 2 or 3 sheets of 30 problems or so. Suddenly, DS is very unfocused with homework - he keeps walking away, has to be told repeatedly to sit down and do the homework, etc. We scribe and have been encouraging him to use panther math paper (it is a lot of writing) but he still insists it's too much - too cumbersome (the math apps designed to make things easier for dysgraphics are too cumbersome, too complicated, too many steps - I have to say I do agree and I have several times now thrown the iPad in frustration with panther math paper.. not kidding). He has a few time now just put down any answers, literally - just fills in random numbers to be done and puts it away thinking I won't look at it, which I do and discover the ruse.

Recently, this week, he has taken to hiding the sheets and then telling me he lost them, etc. His special-ed teacher has a few times now indicated to me that she thinks the homework is too much. She is the one who noticed him hiding the sheets this week and called me more insistent about us doing something to lessen the load. When she talked to him about it, he got very emotional and complained that he feels overwhelmed by the homework and wants to quit accelerated math (little does he know I heard the teacher below is giving a bunch of homework as well but he thinks they are only getting the usual one sheet). So, spec-ed teacher called me and really wants to either use his accommodation of reduced homework and/or she wants to carve out some time in the day for him to come to her classroom and do some of it so that he is not overwhelmed by having to do it all in one sitting. He is not having trouble with the concepts at all. He is doing well on the quizzes and the tests. Everyone agrees that he is not struggling at all with the concepts.

I am/was a little resistant. I mean, he has time for minecraft and you-tube and refuses to miss soccer practice, etc. he still loves mathnasium (as long as he does not have to do his actual homework or school work there). But his babysitter said to me yesterday that his homework is very repetitive and is taking him an hour and that he is very unfocused on it but clearly knows it. This just after the spec-ed teacher told me she thinks we need to do something because she feels the homework is destroying his love for the subject.

On top of all this the teacher is just a very poor teacher. I can tell spec-ed teacher does not like her. I have also found out parents have been complaining about this teacher for years and she is teaching accelerated because it is where she can do the least amount of damage

Polarbear, sounds like you guys are encountering what we are, i.e, the apps and computer programs designed to lessen math handwriting are so cumbersome and so much work and take so much time they are not worth it! It's really annoying! I was hoping that would not be the case with Efofex too! >(

Incidentally, it seems like the teacher is covering approximately an envision lesson a day (and they are doing the 5th grade book and curriculum, doing a lesson per day). If she would just give the corresponding homework sheets per day - either the regular or the enrichment, DS would be fine. They are in 4th but doing the 5th grade book and curriculum and going at a fast pace, no? So they are "accelerated" just fine... I think? I am not sure why she pulls random worksheets with 20 - 30 problems on them for homework... It is so odd. And they do not seem to be teaching or covering anything more or different.

In that case I would use the accommodation and have him do the even-numbered problems (or something).

Irena, Efofex has come a long way since ds first tried it, plus we were using it on a Mac before it was ported to the MAC, so ds was having to run it in Windows (on the Mac), then export his work and cut/paste etc in some very cumbersome ways. He actually used MSWord quite a bit to type problems when he was in Algebra, and graphed by hand. Most of it runs on the MAC now, and when ds looked at it (very briefly) this summer, he was interested in possibly giving it a try again. The challenge with ds now is that he's so busy with everything else in life that comes with high school etc, he doesn't want to have to learn how to do something new on the computer, especially if it means he needs to use a laptop. The iPad is just so much easier to transport to school etc.

I wouldn't hesitate for even a nanosecond to reduce the # of problems your ds is required to do each night since he is clearly understanding the concepts. And I wouldn't compare math homework to minecraft etc - if you're concerned he's spending to much time on those other things, focus him on something else, but skip the math that takes forever.

Best wishes,

polarbear

eta - also, fwiw, one of our biggest struggles (repeatedly) with ds is having *him* realize how much longer his homework is taking him than other kids. Math is just one piece of his homework (although it packs a huge time impact) - between math and writing *and* fitting in the extras ds enjoys (band, sports etc) ds has absolutely no free time - and that does, truly, get to him now and then. Plus detracts from available sleep time!

So she is not sending home the regular Envision sheets, just these random internet sheets? Are they doing the Envision homework in class?

I just got a group email from DS's 6th grade math teacher complaining about how some kids do not yet know their math facts and since they are now doing long multiplication and divison with decimals, these kids are struggling. She told parents to make sure the kids are working on fluency. So maybe these practice sheets are supposed to be extra practice for those kids who are not fluent?

An hour is way to long in 4th grade unless it is his idea. I like the idea of do the odd or even and leave it at that. I do understand the frustration with balancing computer time but that has to remain a separate issue, sort of.

She is suppose to be using the Envision curriculum but sometimes does and sometimes doesn't... She does gives Envision quick checks, though, which are graded and I supposedly have some weight (though how much was never communicated) on their grade. I think of them as "quizzes." 98% of the homework are random internet math worksheets not Envision.


I don't think so... the entire class is getting the same homework. So, no reason for me to believe that only a certain subset of the class is getting the longer more repetitive homework. Also, she said in the beginning of the year that those who are not fluent in math facts will be give a math facts calendar that parent has to sign each night to show that their child did multiplication facts at least 4 nights a week.

In class work is also comprised of random sheets. She usually gives a "packet" each week of internet worksheets - some of the sheets are done in class and others are done at home. They are usually not in any kind of order or anything (they are stapled but not in the order that the concepts will be covered) and are all different brands, etc. Which is why I have to work really hard each week for a syllabus so I know what they are suppose to be learning, and which concepts are coming from the Envision curriculum and which are coming from somewhere else (i.e. "lattice multiplication" for example) and which concepts she is skipping! She feels very random and unorganized to me - drives me nuts.

Yes it is too long for school homework in all subjects let alone just one.

My DS (8 years old) goes to an "academically rigorous" school. The guideline for his homework is that it should take 15 minutes of undivided and focused work to finish the math part - parents are told to write a note so that the teacher knows if it is too much and they will work with the child to rectify any issues. They also ask the parents to write a note if they think that the child is doing busy work as homework. He gets 2-3 pages of math - 80% of the time, he finishes in 10 minutes (word problems), but on some days, he works for 30-35 minutes to get it done - and those are for difficult challenge problems which are not straight forward application of concepts.

So, I think that 1 hour on 1 subject at this grade level is too much (whether for a child who is slowing down due to writing challenges or for a tired child at the end of a long day). Since you feel that it is a lot of busywork, I suggest that you use the spec-ed teacher's help to either reduce the math homework load to 20% of the current load (= 20 minutes) or ask for the parent to be able to choose which part of the packet your DS should spend time on or just skip math homework on alternate days.

In addition to losing his love for math, too much time on 1 subject leads to reduced time for other homework, test prep and projects in other subjects and even less time for after school sports and such things. Definitely take up the spec-ed teacher's help to lobby for changes for your son.

Depends on the work. My son had at least an hour of math homework in 4th grade. (And that is just the math homework.) BUT I don't think this was a good thing. The reasons his math homework took this long.

1) He was in the gifted/high accelerated self contained class at our school. The entire class skipped 4rd grade math & was working on 5th grade math. (Back when it was a different curriculum that spiraled.. now they do a compressed class.) This class was notorious for it's HUGE homework load. In order to make more space in the class for the extra curriculum (fun challenge math for example) the teacher sent ALL math practice work home as homework rather than a combined seatwork/homework.

2) My DS has low processing speed and working memory. I didn't find this out till my DS was 15 and got my son tested so I it's only a guess looking back on it. He didn't find the math sent home hard but he did spend a LOT more time than the other kids in the class. I do wish I had tested & known this earlier. I am sure this is why my son was spending over 3 hours a night in 4th grade on homework.

I suggest doing a bit of detective work. There are many reasons that they homework could be taking this long.

So, this is very much our situation. It's the same class! - i.e.,The entire class skipped 4th grade math & is on 5th grade math and the curriculum does spiral. my son also has low processing speed.

Don't have a lot of advice since I buried my head in the sand in regards to this. We were having more problems with writing assignments and DS never complained about the math homework. I did complain about the general level of homework overall.

My only suggesting is talking with the teacher about DS being required to do only half the homework and completing the rest only if the homework takes less than say 30 minutes. Suggest he do every other problem and assure her you will re-evaluate if his test scores don't stay high.

I suggest you have him do him math homework in the evening when you can observe & look over the assignment a few times. Have him to half of the work and write the teacher a note. (Make sure a few problems of each type & more difficult problems are attempted.) If he has a 504/IEP call in the resource teacher & have them change his accommodations to put in a line item specifically for this. If you aren't getting any love from the teacher push this higher, check with other parents to see if you aren't alone. Sometimes if it's a group of parents complaining about something like this you have more leverage.

Good Luck.

We have an IEP with provisions to reduce math homework by about 50%. If the teacher doesn't reduce it, we will. Otherwise DS12 would have 60-90 minutes per night, most of which would be of the repetitive drill and kill type.

DD has operated in a similar situation for the past few years. Her math HW is and was quite variable but might take anywhere from 15 minutes to yes, an hour. Her focus is not awesome when working at home, but from what other parents said, this was not unusual. DD has always been a straight A student in math and has never had an issue completing work or tests in class (I have assumed that if there was a truly a "work pace" problem, she would not be able to complete these in time given). Typically, DD has had an easier time with math assignments from the standard textbook, but her teachers have always supplemented with other work they got from elsewhere which was more difficult--accelerated/gifted math stuff. I consider DD a "good" but not extremely gifted math student. In this area, she seems to be in line with her tested MG status.