Has anyone tried out both AOPS and Russian School of Math (RSM). They both claim similar problem solving goals. So was looking at pros and cons beyond the fact that one is online while the other is classroom oriented.

We tried out both. Perhaps we ended up with a poor teacher, but the RSM teacher my daughter had didn't know how to approach rate problems properly, and there were a couple of other mistakes I remembered as well.

After that we went with AOPS exclusively.

One of the big questions I had about RSM is it seems to be grade level based (They do seem to have 3 levels within each grade). Did you see the work being too easy even at the advanced level for the grade?

That must be somewhat new.

My son and daughter took a summer class about 4-5 years ago. My son was with students 3 years older and my daughter with students 1-2 years older.

Our local RSM said that students had to take a placement test to determine their grade placement - for e.g., if your child is now attending 3rd grade at their day school, but passed RSM's 5th grade level assessment, then he will be placed in the 6th grade RSM class and within that 6th grade RSM class, an appropriate sub-level will be assigned. They also said that there is some flexibility in the placement if the class turns out to be too difficult or too easy for the student. So, to answer the OP's question, placement is based on the child's ability and knowledge rather than age and grade level at school.

Our local center seems to have a mastery based approach using Russian methods. I believe that they also introduce critical thinking and problem solving in math. They had not heard of AOPS when I called them. I decided to go with AOPS instead.

It boggles my mind that RSM could say they have "not heard of AOPS". We know almost all the kids that qualified for state and national mathcounts in our state. The vast majority of them are on AOPS.

At a higher level, just about all the kids who have a shot at making the USA national Olympiad team use the most advanced AOPS classes as well.

Same here as with mithawk. Anyone competing at the state and national level are active members of AoPS.

The only thing I know about Russian School of Math is what I have read here and on the web.

You cannot even compare AOPs with RSM. AOPs is for the kids who are looking for advanced math programs, but RSM is just for those who need extra help to get from a C- to a B-. RSM teachers are not real math teachers, and their curriculum is outdated. They never provide you with real help, and pretend they never heard of AOPs or other advanced programs. Also they are rude and impatient. We tried it and ran away. We have been using AOPs for 3 three years - the best you can find!

Have not used either system, but I do know someone who runs a more-or-less RSM. Obviously, implementation will differ from place to place. The center I know about is run by a trainer of math teachers, who is actually very nice (almost to a fault), and places students by assessed instructional level, not age/grade. We haven't used their services, as we feel comfortable teaching our kids ourselves, but know many people in our larger community who do. Mostly high average to MG kids, admittedly.

My three children will be returning to RSM this week, so obviously I disagree. The RSM teachers of our children have been competent, and our daughter formed a real bond with her teacher last year. I supervise the completion of the weekly homework for the younger two, now in 4th and 5th grade, and I am impressed by what they are able to do. My older two (out of three) children have taken AOPS classes, but for the middle child, who is bright but perhaps not gifted, the structure provided by weekly in-person classes and the nature of the curriculum may make RSM a better fit for him than AOPS. To counter the sarcastic "C- to a B-" comment, let me note that he was getting A's in regular school math before enrolling in RSM.

I like the fact AoPS's material is available a la carte... you can take the classes or use the textbooks alone or just use Alcumus for free... That makes it very flexible.

Also, AoPS is now an accredited school not just an enrichment center which might be a plus if you are trying to deal with public schools for advancement.

The RSMs in my area cater to a large clientele who want better math than what the PS offers (gifted programs have been cut for the past several years). They feel that the rigor and the content makes up for what the PS education in math lacks. There are also many kids that go to RSM so that they can excel in the state standardized testing - the scores are used for pullouts in school for math differentiation. There are others that use RSM for remedial math.

The ones going to the national Olympiad teams have other avenues available to them. So, it is entirely possible that the tutors in RSM have not heard about AoPS.

I agree with your description of RSM. Our RSM branch offers a free class where selected students prepare for and take MOEMS, the Math Olympiad for elementary and middle school. My middle child liked that class and did well on MOEMS. Even if RSM is less focused on gifted math students than AOPS, it still has something to offer them.

Bostonian, If I understand your mail correctly your older two took are taking both AOPS and RSM. Did you find them complementary or duplicative?

RSM homework provides more practice than the AOPS homework challenge questions, which are more conceptual. My middle child did not want to attend in-person math classes during the summer, so he did an AOPS class instead. Now that his RSM class has started again, he is not doing AOPS.

I'd say try AOPS first. If your child is motivated enough to do the online homework and participate in the online classes, and if he or she can handle the material, RSM may not be necessary.

Our younger children are in grades 4 and 5. The current plan is to have them continue with RSM through high school. We are trusting RSM to get them through the math sequence through AP Calculus and to have them ready for the SAT and SAT math subject test, consistent with the goals they have listed http://www.russianschool.com/our-programs/high-school . RSM should help them get into and stay in top track math classes in "regular" school. Our oldest child is more gifted in math, and although he is also in RSM, we would consider taking him out if he became too busy.

In our town of about 20,000 people, the RSM branch has several hundred students, so it cannot be focused on the most gifted math students, although it still may have something to offer them.

It seems like RSM is closer to Kumon in concept than AOPS. Can anyone contrast Kumon to RSM for practice?

Funny you asked. We have never used Kumon, but at a block party this weekend, a parent who had tried Kumon and is now using RSM said that Kumon was better developing speed and accuracy for certain mathematical operations but that RSM developed more conceptual understanding. Perhaps RSM is between Kumon and AOPS in philosophy.

An RSM branch answers the question "What is the difference between the RSM-MetroWest program and Kumon? " at http://www.metrowestschool.com/faq.html . The Kumon answer would of course differ.

I don't know much about the RSM, but I know a bit about Kumon, as I had my eldest tested there when he was 7 or 8.

The elementary-level program is all about memorization and mastery. The kids have to complete long worksheets that repeat the same type of problem over and over (and over...) again, until they can finish one in less than x minutes without errors. Both conditions must be met in order to move forward. Apparently, the idea is to deliberately start kids at a very low level, so that they can "progress quickly," whatever that means in this context (from one set of worksheets to a slightly more difficult set of worksheets?).

Here's a plain language analysis of the Kumon method, written by someone who ran a center for a couple years.

Overall, Kumon is probably an excellent training ground for those desirous of acing high-stakes tests (or their children). I don't think it's right kind of place to develop mathematical talent, though it may well be the sort of place that can help develop compliance.

We are very familiar with Kumon. Kids have been doing if for last couple of years. In general while he does capture some key aspects I would disagree with Donald Sauter's articulation. Sure it is repetitive and not exciting but it did help my kids understand the fundamentals and address any problem regular school throws at them.

Its weakness is problem solving. From Bostonians feedback it does not seem going to RSM will address that issue.

Val, I do desire my kid to ace-stakes tests. I wager most of those in this board would as well.

Raptor_dad,

Have you been able to use AOPS to skip classes in school?

Does anyone have California experience with this?

We are in PA and our school has agreed to allow DS to take AoPS instead of regular math. DS takes the class at home in the evening and works on AoPS homework during the school day.

Igbu/Portia/Others,

Could you describe the process you went through to substitute AOPS for school math. Was the teachears/principals support enough?