Hi all,

We started DS (4.5) in kindergarten this year. We're lucky enough to live in a state that has a process for early entry K.

However, we're concerned that he's just not socially and emotionally ready, and we're wondering if we should hold him back so that he starts kindergarten next year with his age cohort. We'd hate to make him sit through all of the phonics and counting again, but we are seeing a lot of behavioral issues at home that didn't exist before school (including toileting issues). He also has a really hard time separating from us. It wasn't until this month that I could drop him off without someone holding his hand, hugging him, or otherwise physically leading him away, usually while he was crying. Day care was the same way.

He says he hates school. He also hated his day care and until recently has vehemently not wanted to go back. He says he only wants to stay home with DH and I, which is not an option. In the last two weeks, he has said he just wants to play all day at day care. How can we say no to that? The kid's only four, and he's a young 4--won't turn 5 until March. The only feasibly day care option will not engage his mind, but it will allow him to play much of the day.

He doesn't really have close friends at school, although he did in day care. He says he hates everyone in his current class. We've been working with the principal, the guidance counselor, and the school psychologist to try to figure out how to help. None of them see any behavioral or social problems at school. Somehow, when he's there, he's a normal, happy, does-as-he's-asked kid. The psychologist honestly had no idea he was only 4 until we told her; she thought he was just like all the other 5 year olds.

He does get pulled out one to two times a day for gifted instruction with another small group of kids, and he really likes his gifted teacher.

We're looking at other schools for next year, but most of the options around here are run by lottery, so the odds of getting in as a first-grader are near zero. We are considering paying for a new private gifted school that is starting, but the cost of attendance is a big barrier (about $12k/year).

We have no idea what to do. His FSIQ is 148 and his achievement test is similarly high. Making him re-do kindergarten seems...cruel. But so does forcing him to go to a school that he hates where he has no friends. Emotionally, he's very cuddly, and he likes his teachers to be warm and fuzzy. His current teacher is not, and he says he hates her, too. I asked about switching teachers, but the principal is reluctant to do so (understandably).

I'm sure that many of you have faced this conflict between emotional and cognitive needs. How do you muddle through? Right now we feel like we're choosing the least worst option, but that doesn't give us much solace.

Has anyone held back a kid who did early entry kindergarten? If we did hold him back, he would go to a different school. So there wouldn't be questions from his peers. I know the research on holding back in general paints it as a bad option, but this feels slightly different.

Please help! I'd love to hear from anyone who's been in a similar situation. Did you tough it out? Hold your kid back? Something else?

We went the gifted private route at 4. Yes it is expensive. Yes it is a long pain in the neck commute. But it also solved so many problems in one fell swoop.

We did try a very small amount of private kindergarten at my son's old preschool. It was not a great fit and the private school works way better.

The teachers are used to quirky gifted kids, and the kids have an instant peer group. If you can swing it I think the private school may be worth it.

My DD was not early-entered into K, but she did exhibit some of the same behaviors. She hated school, and said she had no friends there. The latter was confirmed by school staff, who described her as quiet and compliant. We knew our DD as compliant, but quiet is only in character for her in new situations, as she's somewhat guarded, but she should have come out of her shell at some point within the first several weeks. DD was also having meltdowns at home.

In her case, the problem was that the instructional time involved materials which were significantly beneath her. She was bored, frustrated, but also trying to fit in. The tension between seeking to conform and seeking something to learn was wearing her out, and causing all of her social and emotional problems.

In that situation, holding her back another year would have been a disastrous move, as it would have only made the problem worse. What she needed to eventually solve the problem was the opposite: a grade skip. Until we got one, we homeschooled our DD, and saw improvements almost immediately.

I gather from your description that homeschooling is not an option. An alternative may be to go ahead and pull him out, send him to the fun daycare he loved, and then send him back to school next year... in first grade.

Some things really stand out to me in your post, Helianthus:




Is he, just personality-wise, a kid that has a lot of trouble with changes? With unpredictable environments? (My own DD was definitely that way until she was-- er-- well, never mind. She is still a bit this way at 15, and is irked beyond words that a student from another section took her regular seat during a math midterm last week. )



How long was he in the same daycare setting, anyway? (see above-- it often is a long, and painfully slow process for my own DD to feel as though she is accepted and comfortable, and she's quiet and compliant, but not happy, until that happens)



They said that he's happy? Bit of a mismatch from what you are seeing, isn't it? That's the root of the issue right there-- and I'd NOT be quick to assume that this is a matter of the environment not being suitable, since you've also seen it before (daycare). This may be a matter of having a child that struggles with adjustment issues-- or a child that prefers mom and dad to ANY other setting, and is willing to do whatever it takes to get more of what he wants in that respect (your attention/time).






Okay-- thinking that this is probably a matter which is in some ways exacerbating the underlying problem. My hypothesis is that you have a little boy who doesn't like change, doesn't like unpredictability, and likes his surroundings to be warm and affectionate toward him. In other words, his ideal is probably HOME and YOU.

That said, the contrast between home (pleasant and exactly as he likes his environment in this respect) and the current gifted teacher (also MUCH more to his tastes than the regular teacher), coupled with the cognitive needs at work-- that is probably leading to an even more extreme (and negative) perception in his mind re: his school setting in the regular K classroom.



How is his adjustment in general? Slow? It sounds so from your description of how much he dislikes separation from you.

If so, I'd just warmly accept what he says, and offer sympathy, but not take it too seriously. Just listen and let him know that you hear him, and that this is a hard thing for him. Obviously not if you have reasons to think that there is something specific underlying his emotional response-- of course. Some kids just have to work on their ability to be in new social settings and to warm up to their surroundings.

Frankly, the fact that he is being given GT enrichment twice DAILY is astonishing in K-- around here, that'd be absolutely unheard-of. I don't see what you could do which would be better for him, truly.

One of the reasons why we placed DD into a school at 6yo (rather than continue to homeschool) was that we saw a real need for her to gain the ability to adjust to different teaching and interpersonal styles. She was manipulative, honestly. If you have a kid that struggles some that way (and if so, you have my sympathies, because my own DD is this way, too)-- he probably needs all the practice he can get throughout childhood.

The fact that YOU are the only ones hearing/seeing this from him is at least possibly a warning flag to me that he may behaving in a (slightly) manipulative fashion, knowing that you will feel badly for his distress and respond with making him more comfortable. Whether that is a good idea depends upon whether or not this is really something that has growth potential for him. In a case like Dude's DD, it didn't, and therefore removal from the setting was the right thing to do.

In a case like my DD's, not-so-much. Rescuing her would have just taught her learned helplessness and that discomfort derived only from external sources and was cause for alarm. It also would have reinforced her tendencies to manipulate us.

Helianthus, DD5 is grade-skipped and before the skip, she too was exhibiting some of the behavior issues you mention and only at home. Here are some ideas that I am hoping can help you.
1. Is K mandatory in your state? If yes, is it part-time or full-time? If not mandatory or only P/t is required, maybe you could keep him in school for K for half day and either keep him at home (with a parent or another care giver). I did this-DD was in school for only 3.5 days and stayed home with me for 1.5 days. I had to cut my hours at work so there was a financial loss, but it was totally worth it.
2. Is the workload, especially writing, too much at K level and is this causing your child to not like school? If yes, maybe you can talk to the teacher and reduce mind-numbing writing work. DD had this issue and the teachers accommodated and lo and behold, now writing is her hobby. She just needed time.
3. When child is in good mood at home, sit down and try to ask him what is bothering him about school and what he likes about school. Ask him what would his ideal school look like. Even though he is barely 5, you will be surprised at how good these kids are at solving their own problems. Again, this technique worked for me so hoping it does for you too.
4. If there are any mixed-age, mixed-grade play based schools in your area,I would look into it as an option for this year and next. DD is at such a school and very content both because she has a wide variety or ages/maturity levels to find friends within and her academic needs are being met suitably.
Finally, if your kid is 2-3 years above grade level, I think grade skip is a good way to at least meet some of their needs. So, IMHO, undoing the skip does not seem like a good option.
All the best with your decision!

You've received great advice above. I'll just add that the Iowa Acceleration Scale (IAS) helps place a lot of issues on the table for discussion, which may not otherwise be considered.

Additionally, the landmark work on acceleration A Nation Deceived, which has served well for a decade, is now updated: A Nation Empowered. Web seminar (webinar) January 29, 2015.

Dude, thanks for sharing this. I suspect this is part of the problem, and we have a meeting with the whole team (psychologist, principal, teachers) in a few weeks to chart a new course for him academically. I know a lot of the literacy work bores him (he's reading at a 1st/2nd grade level).


Yes, that's him exactly. I think you nailed it. His ideal is home and us, and that's just not in the cards right now. Our worry is that hating school now could lead to longer-term problems with school or peers.

To answer your questions, he was in day care for 1.5 years. Over that time he was in three separate classrooms. He liked the first one moderately, loved the second one (it was warm and cuddly) and LOATHED the third one. That was part of why we put him into early kindergarten--it's not like he was enjoying day care.

His adjustment to anything is slow, particularly if that thing happens to be loud (like school). We went to a birthday party at a trampoline place, and it took him a full 40 minutes to warm up and start jumping. Lots of things go like this.

The people at school have seen how shy and slow to warm up he can be, but they also see him interacting normally with his peers. (And in one case, letting the principal know she was changing the paper towels incorrectly!) "Happy" may have been an overstatement, but no one sees the anger and tantrums that we see. His teachers (regular and gifted) were both shocked when we described how he feels about school and the behaviors we see at home.

HK, you've given me some hope that this year will actually be good for him. We've also talked with a social worker who suggested that he might be manipulative (even if not in the way we normally think of adults being manipulative). It's certainly a possibility, but he seems to feel his emotions so strongly that it's hard to believe it's all manipulation.

mon, we've tried to walk him through his school day, but it's hard to get straight answers. Most of the time we get broad brushstrokes (it's boring, I hate it) or flat-out lies (I never go to the library or gym or art or computer class. Never ever). We've not been able to make much sense of his reports of his days at school.


Any suggestions for how to do this? When he's happy and bouncing around, we can help him channel that, but when he's angry and throwing things or slamming his door or refusing to come out of his room, it's hard to reach him.

Thanks to all of you. You've made me feel much better about having him in kindergarten and not undoing the grade skip.

Thank you. I'm a long-time lurker here, and I'm so grateful for the helpfulness of this community.

Thanks for the questions and advice! K is not mandatory (I believe you don't have to be in school until age 7), but DH and I both work (and cutting back isn't an option given what we do) and there is no extended family around to help out.

I've been surprised at the emphasis on writing, which his teacher insists is just not developmentally appropriate. But our state adopted Common Core, so she's stuck teaching writing. We can ask about easing up on it; I think that may be a good idea. But I've also heard that first grade is writing-intensive, so I'm not sure if it would help him long-term or not.

His teachers commented that he was visibly towards the end of the day, so now they're offering him a 20-minute rest (in a cozy corner in the gifted teacher's room; he can choose to read if he wants). Not sure yet if that's helping, but we'll hear from the teachers in a few weeks.

We've definitely tried #3. Mostly I get answers like, "I want to send all my friends [classmates] in a rocket to the moon and never see them again." Or "The only thing that would make school better is having you there all day." (So yes, HK nailed it on that one.)

For #4, we are looking at a Montessori nearby. There are a few that are free (charter schools), and one that would be roughly as expensive as the gifted school.

It's so hard to know! Someone tell me my kid will be okay and I'm not damaging him for life by making him go to kindergarten. (Okay, that sounds ridiculous, I know! But I do worry.)

We had similar issues with one of ours, in an academic K4 (though the peer social situation was a bit better). It turned out that part of the issue was temperamental (just wanted to be home with parents), part of it was the schedule (too early, and too long a day), and part of it was the child's expectations. Presented as "school", (vs day care) there was this assumption that there would be learning involved. When there wasn't, there was deep disappointment.

It didn't help that older sib's idea of "preparing for preschool" the summer immediately previous consisted of high-interest, positive-reinforcement-loaded, fast-paced, individual instruction in first-grade reading and math, which was so well received that I had to chase them to bed at 8:30 at night, after literally hours of "playing school".

It took us quite a bit of the school year, and many conversations and observations, to figure out that these were some of the issues. The school didn't see any of it, because the little rule-following, people-pleasing person was very careful to precisely meet every expectation there.

Since it's also been suggested by another person who knows your child and your situation, I'm going to make a book recommendation, Helianthus. This is one of the BEST parenting books (especially for gifted children, IMO) with one of the most horrid titles. Trust me-- ignore the title and read with an open mind. The reason why I believe that pro-social, chameleon-like children need this kind of mindful parenting more than any other kind of child is that they are innately SO good at manipulating people to meet their needs and desires, and often fail to learn to meet their OWN needs assertively.


The Manipulative Child.


That one book is a stand-out for me personally. I found that most parenting books were useless or worse in parenting a highly asynchronous kid. But this one was pure gold. DD was an expert at drawing us into her personal drama at 2-4yo, and while no, she wasn't exactly a sociopath, she WAS doing it to meet her own needs. She was so good at it that it was quite concerning to us that it was coming to dominate her interpersonal style, in fact.

She still tends to show people what they want to see from her. But she can be assertive and not manipulative now.

While we did not intentionally do early entrance to K for middle kid, she was young for grade. She started in a private language immersion school in Pre-K. The birthday cutoff in the private school is December 31, but the local public school is September 30.

We always thought she was immature for her age, and she was really small. We asked the private school if she should repeat Pre-K (asked again in K), but they saw no need. I should add that this is the kid I declared "not-college-material" when she was four, so perhaps at the time it seemed that holding her back would help with academics.

When we moved her to the public school, we had her repeat 2nd grade. Academically, probably not a good thing because the private school was ahead of the public in most areas (writing, math, etc.). Socially was a different story. I think she was much better off in the "correct" grade for her birth date (in October). Still kind of immature, still small, but a better social fit. While many here may discount sports, I doubt she would have continued her main sport - and no way she would have picked up her other sport - if she was young for grade. She loves her sports and is in her fifth year of travel for her main sport.

I don't think middle kid is damaged for life. She is currently in 11th grade and seems to have made it this far without major "damage" (though I'm sure she'd claim that we parents damaged her in some way - but most 17 year olds will tell you that!).

The decision has a lot to do with the kid. My eldest was one of the youngest in her class (late August birthday). She was always fine with older kids, younger ones, same age...did not matter. Good luck and consider what is best for your son.

I also think it is worthwhile to consider taking the child out of K this year, skipping K and putting him in first grade next year.

Ours had problems at 4 that sound similar. She didn't act out, she withdrew (while smiling on the outside). Her personality at home changed so much we thought we had lost our child. The school said she was happy, but when they filled out evaluation forms for us, they noted autistic-like behavior, so there was a mismatch between school behavior and the school behavior that was reported to us.

Unlike HowlerKarma's daughter, mine really did need out of the situation. grades or work offered or any of that stuff wasn't even a consideration. We just needed her out of an atmosphere that had become toxic for her. When we removed her from the atmosphere, things were immediately better.

We did things that I wouldn't recommend to you--and mine has problems that you don't mention. However, I will say that I do sometimes regret not having her skip kindergarten and go straight from preK into first grade. Kindergarten is about writing and drawing, learning the rules and learning the alphabet. I think if you are thinking at a much higher level than your output allows for, kindergarten can be a really frustrating experience. No play, no thinking, lots of drawing and writing.

HK, I will look into that book. I cringe at the title, too, but the reviews indicate that it's more about the parents than the kid.


THIS. "Not exactly a sociopath" is accurate...but also very adept at making the adults around him walk on eggshells. His little sister (age 2) has even picked up on it, and knows when he's in a "mood" and will give him a wide berth.

NotSoGifted, it's helpful to hear about your experiences. Luckily, my son is on the tall side so he fits right in, height-wise. And for better or worse, he doesn't seem too into sports (yet). That could change, but we've tried to get him excited about sports and he is usually completely uninterested. But still, I do wonder if being with age-peers would just "fit" better.

Unfortunately, taking him out of K and doing 1st next year probably won't work unless we pay for private school. Our state won't let a kid go to 1st grade unless they're 6/7 years old or have completed a year of K. He'll be 5 this spring.


Yes, I think this is probably a significant factor in what's going on. His school is not a high-performing school (it's also a Title 1 school), so his peers tend to be less well-prepared for school than the kids in his day care were. I'm sure that's frustrating for him, and probably makes it hard to connect with them on some levels. He was flabbergasted during the first week of school when he realized that a good portion of his classmates did not know the alphabet and could not spell their names. We have tried to make friends with another girl at the school who is also 4 and in kindergarten, but she is in a different class so he doesn't see her as often.

Thank you for the input, everyone. There is so much here to chew on, and I feel so much less alone just knowing that others have wrestled with this.

So many good replies, I don't know if I have anything to offer.
My first reaction to how he feels about school and daycare make me think this is a personality issue. I know that with our son, emotionally speaking, he's been intense since day one and at 3 years and 11 months and I know that this intensity will continue on in various forms probably forever.
One idea is that you could skip K altogether and just enter him at grade 1 when he's 6 and begin day care in the meantime? Maybe that doesn't make sense because the kids at day care will be younger. Perhaps a nanny for ages 4,5 and then 1st at age 6?
We are in the decision phase and waiting for test results and that's what we are thinking, of skipping K altogether. But I stay at home, so it's an option for us.

I noted in your OP, Helianthus, that your son exhibits various symptoms of sensory defensiveness, yet the only accommodation you mention that he's being provided is a 20 minute recharge at the end of the day. I know that, as an adult with auditory defensiveness, a day with few opportunities for quiet rest is problematic. Could your son be given an option to withdraw from group activities outside the gifted pull outs at other times of day?

Another consideration is that he may, biologically, not be ready for full days without a nap. As a 4-year-old, I needed a 1-2 hour midday nap and was in half day kindergarten as a result. How does the school day map to his natural circadian rhythm? Is he energized in the morning or sluggish?

Just to throw out another consideration, how much are junior teachers paid where you are? Would it be affordable to hire a teacher to (part-time?) homeschool him for you while you and your spouse work? (Some families share a homeschool teacher, and this can make the option potentially more affordable than private school.) You could effect the grade skip yourselves, and have achievement tests done subsequently to validate your son's achievement for a further skip down the line.

This is exactly what we are experiencing with preschool and I am anticipating with K. He knows what people expect of him and will perform the way they want. But he tells me the teachers think the kids are babies and he idealizes Kindergarten all the time. It's crushing imagining how disappointed he'll be in K.

---The tension between seeking to conform and seeking something to learn was wearing her out, and causing all of her social and emotional problems.----

This quote really resonated with me. I think this is DD, and is also me. I think this is the crux of my dilemna about choosing a K for her. She is advanced in pretty much every area of her pre-K curricula, but is very hard on herself and wants to do things like her peers. Should I choose a public charter montessori K, or a traditional K? Do I choose peers she can easily fit in with, or peers that will challenge her (and perhaps frustrate her)?

Shes 4.5 (She'll be 5 at the end of June). So she's on the young age of the grade as it is and is hard on herself (like I am). She tells me that her mouth and her hands just don't work as fast or as detailed as her brain.