Our DS6.5 loves science and math. Lately he's been working on electron configurations and learning more about the basics of quantum physics. We will often peruse the offerings of our local science center and natural history museum for possible classes or workshops he could attend (he's home schooled). The problem we encounter is that most all of these offerings are clustered by age, and he's not terribly interested in what is available for 6 year-olds—usually rudimentary science exemplified by simple, but theatrical demonstrations and little explanation.

When he has attended summer camps at the science center, it's about 5% basic science and 95% crafts, games and distractions with dubious ties to the subject matter. He really craves more, but we can't seem to break through the age-ism inherent in these organizations' bureaucracy.

Has anyone here successfully lobbied museums, schools, labs, libraries, etc. into letting their children participate in more advanced workshops, tours or classes? What are successful strategies you've employed?

This is precisely what we encountered when our DD15 (now a college freshman) was 4-7yo. It was maddening.

Even a TAG/GATE summer program run by our local university refused to even consider that a child who was functionally PG would (just maybe) not be all that interested in re-hashing all the cutesey craftsy stuff that would have appealed to her 2-3y previously. They mandated a STRICT age-based cut-off and made up reasons why they wouldn't budge on it.

There was really no winning this one, we found-- even if we succeeded in bulldozing her in, they'd look for evidence of asynchrony or immaturity as reasons why it wasn't appropriate, or some such thing. "She has trouble reaching the faucets in the lab" was one favorite of mine.

Our eventual solution was to quit "homeschooling" her and enroll her in a cyberschool after a 3y acceleration.

THAT way, it wasn't just mom and dad touting Special Snowflake's ultra special ability.

Because really, I think that is what homeschooling parents are up against. I'll never forget how MIND-BLOWING it was for the adults leading "homeschool days" at the local marine science center to hear my then 5yo ask questions that they couldn't answer, raise her hand again-and-again-and-again when THEY asked questions... and sheepishly revise their opinion of cute little her when SHE was the only one in a room of kids mostly twice her age who really KNEW the answer-- in more detail or with greater precision than some of the adults, in fact. I'll never forget the look on the face of one PhD student's face as she held a baleen sample on her lap and my DD "schooled" her-- once she finally relented and "called on" my daughter, who had been patiently waiting while everyone else got a turn first. {yeah-- "imaturity" my Aunt Fanny-- try getting THAT much emotional maturity out of a typical 9yo, and my DD was 5.}

But of course, by then it was usually too late and she was annoyed by being dissed for being a "merely" a little kid, and in the mood to be snarky or even a little bit aggressive. She sometimes really embarrassed adults who had short-changed her early on. I learned to fear a certain "I'll show YOU" gleam in her eye.

Ahem. Sorry. Moment of PTSD there.

HOW did we occasionally bulldoze her in? Well, two ways.

1. "Are you willing to try it and see if she is okay in there? If you still have concerns after the first ______ (whatever-it-is), then we're more than willing to just call it a failed experiment, okay?"

2. "Well, but younger siblings are permitted to be in the session with participants-- how is this different?"

If your kid is outgoing at all, sometimes they literally speak best for themselves. If you go to a science center, look for the likely retired science type doing demonstrations and have your son ask him a question after the demonstration. A self-selected advocate on the inside can work wonders.

Yeah this. Can you find a mentor with connections to the museums or something? Or take her to some adult lectures?

This will only work if she is both confident and polite though.

This may not work for everyone, but...our parents used to take us with them to their professional conferences and seminars. If I had a kid with a cog sci/psych fascination, this is probably what I would do now. Granted, unless being paid for by big pharma, NIH, or NSF, this approach is a bit on the pricey side.

Thanks for the input so far! These are some good ideas. We're going to sneak him into some public adult lectures on physics and astronomy at the natural history museum in the coming months and see how that goes.

Sad but true - DS loves science and engineering, and it always works better to have DH do the asking for these kinds of activities. I am pushy hot-house Mom, he is engineer/ computer kinda guy who speaks their language and has credibility. If he talks code with the teacher and says DS is ready to program advanced Java, he is believed. I am not.

And to agree with HK, just beg them to try it and convince them you are totally willing to withdraw if they feel he can't handle the content or the older kids. Occasionally they'll try, and after they try once, they stop fussing.

I completely sympathize... Here are a couple of things we tried (some of which are ethically questionable, so be forewarned):

* I enrolled her in the academic camp they suggested, instead of the one she wanted, but at the end of week celebration button-holed the director. I explained my situation and my disappointment, not with program -- which I complimented lavishly -- but with the wasted money because DD didn't learn anything new (she had that in her biology class last year -- but she's accelerated so...). She now has an exception on file for most class age limits with this organization. We've tested this and got her into an above level class.

* I keep a running list of teachers who I can count on for references. This is critical because some teachers will know how smart she is but still be too worried about 'social issues' to make a good reference. Some seem to be in denial about how old she is. In this case I'm loathe to make them think too hard about the 'kid' in their class, so I don't bring it up.

* While extremely reticent to discuss DDs academic level with random parents or people, I'm completely open about her with other smart people I know or work with. Smart professionals know other smart professionals and can open doors to opportunities. For example, some folks at work were tickled by DD's science fair project and connected us to some expensive lab equipment to borrow. I'm just real deadpan about it, not gushy.

* Forgiveness is easier than permission and sometimes information on forms gets messed up. Once they see DD in action, it's rarely a problem.

* Because she goes to a homeschool co-op where she takes above level classes, I feel comfortable listing her grade along a continuum based on the classes she's currently in for outside academic programs (just as I'm comfortable listing her as her normal for age grade for non-academic camps and social stuff despite the fact that she has no classes at that grade level).

* In terms of the co-op, they are so flexible that things usually work well. I enrolled her in classes where she was only a little young and let her shine. From there it was an easy segue into classes where she was very young... because by then people knew her and what they can expect. And I'm super respectful of the teachers, reaching out to validate that things are going well and there aren't any issues.

And just a note. This is VERY HARD in the younger years and gets better as time goes on. DD is hovering on the edge of teenagehood and puberty. People are more willing to have broad age ranges for offerings and she can pass as a smart young teen. In fact, she feels very much like an underdeveloped 13 year old, so much so that we have to put the breaks on social stuff (no, you can't go to the teen dance, even if your friends are all going).

Thanks again for the advice, everyone. We're sneaking DS6.5 to his first adult science lecture tonight at the natural history museum. Fingers crossed, they don't balk at the child sitting in on the lecture. It's on Gamma Ray bursts, so I think he'll be plenty engaged.

Barbus, good luck (and have fun!) this evening. We've found that adult oriented venues tend to balk far far less than youth-oriented ones about children participating.

~The person whose 7yo sat (completely riveted, and entirely conformative re: adult behavioral expectations) in the front row for a world-class performance of Othello.

Last night's lecture went well. He was a little distracted with their bait-and-switch change of speakers and topics, and the late hour (8-9pm). But, all said and done, he fared well through a pretty viscous and dry presentation. There were at least a couple other kids in the audience as well. Success number 1!

At the end of the month we're sneaking him into a Lego Mindstorms workshop series for teens.

All right! Great to hear, Barbus.

I've taken DD at six to the local Shakespeare reading club. It was advertised as all ages by the library where it was held, but we still had some funny reactions. Until DD read her parts perfectly with nice inflection. The only problem was everyone (some elderly) hearing her tiny voice. After the first meeting she was welcomed back, and seemed to be a sort of mascot. We had to stop attending when they moved on from comedies to Titus Andronicus though