As mentioned here before, we began a search for a new school on the advice of our psych. and the head of our children's supplemental school (it caters to gifted kids). DD9 is very unhappy with her public school. Supplemental school director recommended a certain private school so DH and I toured it over a week ago. At our 1st meeting, the principal claimed that students there work 2 years ahead of kids in public schools, stated it is a project based school (quarter long projects), and that all kids are at the 80th percentile or above, but she couldn’t state if any of the kids were at DD’s level because she didn’t have any children’s IQs. The school also offered a personalized learning plan that is updated quarterly with 3 goals – 2 learning goals and 1 life and career goal (social/emotional/organizational). The principal leaned toward whole grade acceleration as DD is single subject accelerated in math and AIG both LA and math (this week was put in AIG 5th grade math although she’s only in 4th grade so she is accelerated even more now?).
These are some of the other items principal mentioned:
-Students grouped for instruction in reading and math by “I Ready” computerized assessment
-SAT 10 given Top 3 last 10 years, generally in the 90th percentile
-STEM school/all about critical thinking
-8 field trips at least (per year? semester?) one is out of town
-each grade only one class, each class about 12 or so kids

Next step – DD9 spent a day there last week in the 4th grade. She didn’t hate it which was a big step. She loved technology. She felt that math was too easy – like 4th grade math. That concerned me as she’s already in 5th grade math in her school plus pre- algebra after school, and yet this school claims to do math 2 years ahead of public school. But, I am going by what a 9 year old says. So I am withholding judgment. DD says language arts is just like her school as well.

Today:
Principal tells us on advice of all the teachers they won’t accelerate DD because: worried about the developmental aspects of skipping, worried that because they are so rigorous that she won’t be able to make up the gaps in her knowledge, feel she’s a better fit with the 4th graders. Aren’t these all the arguments that have been discounted? Do I ignore the fact that my child found the work easy (although it was just one day)? Also, her pre – algebra teacher suggested she be grade skipped. And he’s the guy who suggested the school.

I have to admit I was rather surprised. And, how do we really determine this school is running 2 years ahead academically? We would be shelling out a lot of money to place our child here, and we need to know it really is the right fit. I look at the curriculum, and my head just swims. What should be our next step as parents? So far the other school parents I have talked to don’t have gifted kids like DD. This is really stressful. I have a call out to the psych. as well.

I would ask them to use the Iowa Acceleration Scale.

I asked them to, and they didn't know what it was.

Why pay a lot of money for something not so great when you can get something not so great for free?

A couple of things...

This school probably has a fair number of special snowflakes. If the school does something "special" for a new kid it could cause a lot of headaches for the admins. I am not saying this should matter but it could be shaping their decision.

My son's school sounds similar and overall it works for him.

Maybe see if you could do another trial day (or two). It is a big decision and when you have a child with unusual needs you are at a disadvantage in decision making because references from other parents are not necessarily helpful.

You could also ask what exactly is expected to be covered this year in each subject. I doubt most parents know what is in each grade. I certainly don't.

Good luck!

A few things to check for: ask the school for the list of curricula they use. for e.g. what math do they use (if it is Saxon, Singapore etc, they will have the grade level on the book cover) - so you will know for sure if their math is 2 years ahead of PS kids. When I changed schools I asked for the exact books to be used for my child to determine if the acceleration promised was real or not.
Also try to get your DD to take an out of level achievement test through a talent search if you have not already done so. The scores should convince the school on the grade level acceleration.
And finally, let them know that you are looking for acceleration or skip and that would be the major factor in deciding to move from the current school. I am sure that they want your DD in their school and will try to accommodate you

While a school may teach two years above public school, and that may be true in general, it may not necessarily mean that the school is teaching two years above a particular public school. You've received great advice regarding comparing curriculum and textbooks used within each school, if the comparative level of instructional materials may be a deciding factor for your family.

If a school is unfamiliar with use of the Iowa Acceleration Scale, parents may wish to raise the administration's awareness of this important tool. Based upon your audience, there are several links you may wish to choose among. For your convenience, here are a few:
- Hoagies http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/iowa_accel_scale.htm
- Great Potential Press http://www.greatpotentialpress.com/iowa-acceleration-scale-3rd-edition-complete-kit
- IRPA, Belin-Bank http://www.accelerationinstitute.org/resources/ias.aspx

You may have potential allies in your advocacy, as you mentioned that both your psych and your after-school have referred you to this particular school. You may wish to discuss your experiences, thoughts, and concerns with these potential supporters and see what level of collaboration may be possible. As a part of this effort, you may also wish to see if they are familiar with the IAS, and the Davidson Educator's Guild. If they are not already familiar with these resources, their level of service to the community may be enhanced by becoming aware of them at this point.

More advocacy articles from the Davidson Database:
- http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10558.aspx,
- http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10286.aspx.

Few students have an ideal learning environment, often parents must choose the least-worst fit. Often parents may choose an environment which is somewhat flexible and open to advocacy. Finding the positives in a learning environment may enhance the "fit".

Are you sure your money wouldn't be better spent on enrichment or home schooling.

I think there are some huge red flags that it's not going to work out the way you hope, but it may (or may not) work better than the public school. I would go in and ask to see the actual textbooks and compare to what she is already doing. Look up the math textbook online and find out what grade level it is listed as. Ask if she can "test out" of certain levels of math if she does well on their computerized assessment. Try to figure out how much of an improvement this would actually be (if any) and if it's worth the money. I think flexibility is key. If she ends up having unusual scores, would be be willing to adjust the curriculum or not? And would it depend on the teacher and the teacher's personal feelings? What happens next year if this teacher is good but the next one is not on board with the plan? That's what I'm wondering about DS right now (in public)...First teacher was mediocre but at least could see he was gifted and tried to give him enriched work. Second teacher was awful. Third teacher bent over backwards and said that he would never do any work that was meaningless for him. She worked with him one-on-one each day and gave him work that was actually a little too advanced at times. Current teacher seems to be really trying to figure out his level and is not making him sit thru all lectures. She is listening to my input. Next year....who knows????? So even if the administration is willing to be flexible, which is huge, in such a small school it also depends on the attitudes of the teachers. I would go in and talk to the teacher she would have next year as well, before making any decisions.

What would I do without this site???
Also, I forgot to mention what we found out in the Spring that DD is ADHD inattentive. Would that change your advice to us? I have cut and pasted all the replies and sent them on to DH. We will have a big talk. The school wants us to start Oct. 1, but I think our decision will be NOT to make a decision right now until we know more.

Do you think she needs accommodations/modifications/supports for the ADHD? If so, would the new school do that? If their feeling seems to be that she should be held back because of ADHD characteristics, rather than given supports to help her succeed, I would run the other way. DD has ADHD and is an environment right now where they accelerate (a lot) and don't seem too worried about kids being 2e. They say they will make whatever modifications are needed (cut the workload, use assistive technology, whatever)

I would also ask to spend a morning observing a classroom (if that is something you can swing around your work schedules). We had a deposit down at a school, had placement testing, assurances of flexibility, a successful shadow day, but turned and fled after seeing the receiving teacher in action ourselves.

I understand the desire to find the "perfect" school that will solve the problem of challenging your DD who learns differently - but this school sounds like it might not do that (and honestly, we've started to conclude that such a school might not exist for our DC).

We have a VERY $$$ "gifted" school about 25 minutes from home, but the admissions requirements are actually slightly below our local PS's G&T program. While the local PS's G&T program is not perfect (for one, it starts in 3rd/4th, like many schools), for now, we are sticking with this option. We also have very good PSs overall. We feel there is a value to having our DC socialize with their neighbors at school, and also at home. It may be that you are trying to choose among the lesser of all evils.

Have you effectively "maxed out" the available resources at the public school? Are there possibly any other resources that might be explored? Some "not so well known" "challenge" programs, perhaps?

I certainly would not let the school rush you into a decision that you are not ready to make - especially considering the financial investment involved.

green lotus - you've received a lot of great advice re red flags to watch out for. I have a few things you might also look for - things that might be *good* things (just possibilities). We switched our ds from public to private school when he entered 6th grade (he basically told us he was never going back to his public school during the spring of 5th grade - due to a combination of being bored to tears with the pace of most subjects and level of discussion plus also not receiving any help with his 2e challenges). The private school he switched to was similar to the school you describe (although I have no way of knowing if your teachers have the same philosophy or desire to work with students!). Anyway, fwiw, it's the best thing we ever did for our ds. Here are a few of the things that worked just for him, in one particular school, which may be nothing at all like the school you are looking into -

1) Even though it wasn't labeled a "gifted" school and there was no baseline IQ or achievement bar used for admissions, the school had a relatively high percentage of intellectually gifted kids attending it, so ds found peers he could relate to.

2) The curriculum was advertised as being ahead of public school curriculum and being challenging, and yes, it was ahead of public school curriculum. That wasn't 100% of what ds *could* have been able to handle, but it was ok with ds - much better than his previous school, and the level of discussion and pace were deeper and quicker than his previous school. Could he have moved farther ahead and progressed through curriculum faster? Yes - but there wasn't an alternative, and skipping him ahead (in either school) would only have placed him farther ahead in the curriculum, it wouldn't have given him a truly fast-paced class.

3) Because class size was small, ds had a chance to really work with teachers closely, and that lent itself to him being challenged.

4) The teachers listened to parents and were willing to try things we suggested that would help ds in the classroom (both for intellectual strengths and for his 2e challenge).

5) The staff genuinely cared about the students all being successful - because if students *weren't* successful they would leave, which meant tuition $ also left and parents would be out in the community saying "School XYZ didn't work for my child".

6) Because it was a private school I had to drive ds to and from school, and that meant I was often physically in the school building - not just for planned meetings. It was easy for me to get to know the teachers, and that helped when I had something I wanted to ask them about or have them try.

7) Because it was a school of choice for all the parents, there was a really high percentage of parent volunteers involved at the school - which really made for a great school community and brought in lots of interesting opportunities for the children, as well as a bit of self-confidence booster seeing parents involved in and caring about their children's education.

8) There was no emphasis on "teach to the test". The school definitely tested once every spring, but they didn't spend the school year focused on school performance on that test. The focus was on community, engaging the students in learning etc.

9) There was no Everyday Math This didn't matter to my ds because he was way beyond it, but my point is - some of the trendy curriculum trends that are so frustrating to parents in public schools simply aren't in place in private schools, because that's the place that staff can actually say "NO we aren't going to do that".

10) When my ds was in public school, a large percentage of the teacher's attention had to be focused on kids in class who were not participating, goofing off, not caring about what they were learning, or simply out of control - even in his gifted pull-out. (Hopefully your public school is better!) It was like night and day going into his private school - the students were interested in learning, listening, engaged, and the focus of the teachers was on teaching, not on controlling kids who didn't want to be there. To be fair, there have been students at the school who have caused problems - big problems - but because it's a private school, the school was able to deal with the problems effectively, and when it was necessary, request that a student not return the next year. DS really *really* appreciated the difference in attitude among the students.

Re how to determine if the school is really running 2 years ahead academically? There are quite a few indirect ways you can try to determine that. For instance, if it's only a middle school, ask what level science and math etc the students go into when they graduate and move on to high school. Ask what schools they have alumni attending (college and high schools). Ask parents who have switched their children into the school mid-elementary. Ask for a curriculum outline, and compare it to your school district's outline.


I'd ask for more detail on this. Ask why - specifics of why. If they are worried about gaps, request that they test her so you'll both know where there are gaps and where she's ahead. I know you already have a good idea and she's been through testing, but she hasn't had tests specific to the curriculum at this school - have them test her on end-of-year tests or pre-tests or whatever - but try to get her tested on something that really relates to their curriculum so you can both know for sure what the situation is.

How do you feel about her maturity? Do you think she would be ok in 4th grade next year if she's given enough challenge and appropriate material to work on? Although there are a lot of people on this board who've skipped their children, we chose not to and our ds has been happy staying with his same-age peers.

Best wishes with whatever you decide to do!

polarbear

I hear a lot of emotions in your desperate search and I very much sympathize. I don't believe the school does teach 2 years ahead, if you and your daughter didn't see it, then it's just not true. That's some phrase they throw around becasue they've heard that from incoming parents, I'm guessing. It just doesn't make sense anyway, unless they only admit 95th percentile+ kids.
As far as private school goes, I know I'll be in that same position one day, wondering if there is something out there that can match our DS's needs. But just as Master of None said, there is usually a ceiling, the principal that gave you the tour has no idea how advanced your daughter is. The money you will be spending now could be funds for college, which may be much sooner than you plan. I don't know which one needs more attention, now or later, but it's just a thought. We recently heard about a private school that supposedly has advanced children and I started justifying how we could afford it, but I have two kids and my oldest DS is likely to enter college in his teens so this money is precious.
I'm so sorry that your daughter is unhappy at school, it's heartbreaking. I hope you and your DH have had time to talk about all of this and already feel better about whichever decision you make.

Oh! I forgot to add: She is intitled to an IEP if she has ADHD and her Special Ed teacher will be her advocate and the parent has VETO power in all decisions under Special Education. So if you get her an IEP and want her grade skipped, your vote and the Special Educator's vote weighs much more. Special Education teachers individualize everything, there is no "norm", they think outside the box. I had to take a class on gifted education in my Special Ed teaching program, it's part of Special Ed.

More more thanks to all! I did find out that the school uses "My Math" as their math curriculum if anyone wishes to comment. I will be checking out the 4th grade book to see the exact level as soon as I can along with all the other suggestions mentioned (or as many as possible).
My DH thanks you all as well. He is really concerned with the costs related to this private school. I am up way too late researching educational opportunities for DD9.