Hi all,

Do visual special kids tend to do better in private instruction for extra curricular activities? Just seems DD lags behind in group classes but picks things up instantly if she is shown individually. We have her in group classes for the social aspect and the cost as well. Would appreciate any BTDTer's advice. On the face of it she appears talentless and we should prob drop the activities but I can't help thinking that private classes might allow her to thrive, seems like a no brainer I know, but the extra expense is quite huge...

Interesting question. Not sure if it relates to visual-spatial but our DD is high in VS and performs much better in individual instruction for things like skiing, swimming, horse riding etc. She also loves math with her tutor one on one and flies through material. But yes, individual lesson are much more expensive so we save them for "when needed" to get the most value from them. In some areas the social aspect is as important as the activity so it just depends. Also some kids do learn well from watching what other learners are doing.

I wonder if all children get more return per hour of instruction if lessons are one on one. Depending on what the activity is, could you add a lesson or two of individual instruction for two reasons. You could try and gauge if there is any benefit and, additionally, you could get feedback from the instructor on how she is going and what realistic expectations are for her in that area.

You could add a private lesson per month with the instructor for the group activity that she is taking. That way you can save on money. My DS goes to private lessons once a month for his martial arts class and with his swim team coach just as a means for them to check and correct techniques that may be wrongly learnt. YMMV.

Not sure what the reason is but DS7, very vs, does much better with individual lessons for physical stuff. I'd say that it's mostly because he is always cautious and often anxious, and needs a lot of encouragement and repetition. So we do things like shell out for an hours individual skiing lesson on the first day, which cost as much as a days group instruction, but he'll learn tons more, then have him in group classes the following days, for the company.
Swim class with a lot of individual attention, due to kids entering and leaving at various dates, worked much better than the following class where everyone. Was supposed to progress at the same level and speed - he just didn't, regressed in fact. So we switched to yet a different class, and if that hadn't worked out, I would have booked a few individual lessons for him.
Yes it's costly, but the group lessons that had him do worse in the end were such a waste of money.

What Tigerle said

What is the activity? Some cannot be done well in isolation, such as team sports, but certain aspects of the game can be taught individually. For example, middle kid plays volleyball and softball. All individual instruction for each kid, then throwing them together for games would be a disaster. She does take weekly batting lessons though, and those are either individual or with one friend (who happens to be HG).

Hi thanks so far - she is doing piano and gymnastics.

Gymnastics we are prepared to give away when she starts school as she is prob more interested in ballet anyway, though she seems to be completely incapable (face planting, tripping etc) but the thing is she is physically gifted and when the class is not on she gets on the equipment and does all her stuff perfectly. I think this could be her overexcitability at play here - she just gets soooo distracted.

With piano, although she doesn't love it I want her to keep it up to help with her over excitabilities. She really enjoys the group class because there's lots of singing and dancing (ISM) but the theory moves along at such a pace and is a bit black and white that you can see she is visibly 2 steps behind everyone else. I think perhaps its not being able to interpret what the teacher says into she what needs to do fast enough. Again when at home, shown once she plays well and despite not practising (arrgh) is in the top 2 kids in class.

We actually tried to quite last term which resulted in the school making quite a few shuffles in schedule to accommodate us which was a bit naughty of them because I know other parents were refused. So they obviously see some raw ability. although after a monumental finger licking session in class today (due to the material being presented in a boring way according to dd - not enough colour!!!) I'm pretty sure they are regretting that decision :-)


The reasons that we haven't sprung for private is the the ISM make a pretty strong case about the benefit of group lessons, she isn't in love with it (I'll admit this is from me not her) and the expense. We can afford it but even at 4 we are just starting to get a view of the extra curricular future $$$ and to be honest I'm a little freaked out!

I think most children learn better one-on-one. It's just not practical all the time, and sometimes they do use an activity for the social aspects. Not all that one-on-one activity needs to be by a "professional" though. A dad or mom taking the kid out and practicing throwing a ball, or working on their swimming.

If your child wants to get good at a musical instrument I do think one-on-one lessons with qualified instructor are important. Group lessons or a performance group are a different aspect that can in addition be helpful but it's different. But for the basics a group lesson is going to have a lot of hurry up and wait. As a child I took piano, one private lesson a week and one group. Honestly I don't remember getting much out of the group lesson. My son takes band at school, but I spring for a private instructor once a week. If your daughter isn't enjoying the group lessons, then I would probably try and look into something else.

I will be honest - I do have a bias against gymnastics environment that drives girls towards competitive gymnastics after seeing the regrets of my co-worker with his daughter where he regretted not having her quit sooner (the carousel of injuries and stress got too much) so I can not speak to specifics of gymnastics.

Some sports are such that individual coaching works a lot better than others (as some people mentioned) but even in sports like soccer and volleyball, there is still some benefit to periodic individual coaching especially for position specific skills like goalkeeping in soccer or setter in volleyball.

There is a difference between raw physical skill and coach-ability of an individual - some people are able to watch other people and with basic coaching, seem to leap in bounds with what they can do while others take longer to get to that same level but may have more potential ultimately to go further. Some sports will be easier than others for those who require more time to develop... I personally have been a good athlete but it takes me longer to make the adjustments I need to technique. But once I get that down, I catch up or surpass my class or teammates... It was like that for me in soccer, horseback riding, volleyball, rowing... I never started out in the top group but usually would in a year or season, surprise my coach with what my capability ended up being relative to my teammates.

I am very visual person, and found benefit in being in group situations by watching what others did right and wrong (but this is a maturity issue) but improved best when a coach worked with me personally. That is because although visually, I could see and understand the changes I needed to make, I could not feel the differences without feedback.

Music... Individual lessons are ideal, from my experience and both of my sisters (one who did both singing and violin at very high levels through high school).

I've been freaking out for some time now so I completely understand.

Paying for DD's music lessons made our shoe-string budget even tighter. It affects our quality of life as we can't eat out as much and we can't go on vacation anymore except for a weekend here and there. We paid quite a bit for ballet too and I don't think it was a waste since she got a lot of socialization out of it but I wouldn't have paid for private lessons or summer intensive camp for ballet at her age.

It's a bit different for music since DD seems to need music and withholding music lessons feels like we are depriving her of appropriate education so we do what we can do but she seems to just need more and more.

Generally speaking, my suggestion would be to explore different activities until she finds her passion but with piano, your DD might do better if she gets a private teacher who gets her. If she still doesn't seem to love it and still doesn't want to practice, you can always revert back to group lessons.

just thought I'd put in an update....

DD has decided she does love gymnastics after all and is focusing on trying out for comp squad next year (sept) so she has quite a while to make an impact. Have to say though that I'm hoping doesn't notice the more bolshy kids being invited for early try outs though. She got off to such a rocky start with listening to instructions and overcoming her fear that I think they may have already popped her in the reject bin. Hoping they notice that her personality is quite well suited to the sport though.

As for music. Once DD realised she would learn recognisable tunes she was away - she practises daily without prompting and is really progressing - well beyond the class. I have a meeting scheduled with her teacher this week who really doesn't like private lessons so I'm going to have to come up with a plan to convince her to do group lessons. I don't really want to move to a new teacher, this one is good and DD likes her.

Coaches who work with young children probably have seen how even a few months could make a huge difference in children's development and drive so I very much doubt that your DD is in any bins.

I'm sure private music lessons are expensive in your area too but if your DD is sticking to piano, sooner or later, she'd need private lessons and I think sooner is often better than later if she is going to transfer to a different teacher down the road.

A good piano teacher who has worked with a number of highly talented students and he/she could be a wonderful source of support for your DD and for you. I'm learning so much from her piano teacher who has been teaching at a GT school for many years. She really gets DD's personality, temperament, asynchrony, stubbornness, and her need to explore on her own while still needing instruction. It's always hard to part with a good teacher especially if your child has bonded with her but sometimes, it's necessary.

Thanks Mana, good to hear about gym. As you know it's so important and helpful for these kids to stick to something long term and feel they are progressing even when it's hard!

Re piano, I have to admit I'm a bit nervous about talking to the teacher - when I brought up the possibility she gave me a real hard time about DD being too young for that sort of pressure etc and that she intended to convince me to stay with group lessons. There were other parents around so I didn't want to go into it but I know she does tutor quite a few kids privately...
I need her to get that it isn't really about the piano it's about needing a challenge. At the moment DD has mastered her weekly stuff and by the time they get to the slowed down version in class she is just mucking about and losing interest. sigh.

ahh scratch that - just got an email saying her teacher has resigned from the school. perfect time for a change then!!!

Glad to hear that you have a perfect chance to start fresh. I don't think there was much point in spending your time and energy trying to work with someone who feels that way. Besides, maybe SHE puts pressure on her students. There is no reasons for private lessons to be stressful as opposed to joyful.

From what I understand, many private piano teachers do not accept students younger than 6, 7, and sometimes 8. I can respect that each teacher has his or her own reasons for setting a minimum age but when you have a child who is ready, it feels like discrimination. I hope you have some leads of piano teachers who enjoy working with younger students.

When DD was having the time of her life during her piano audition, I knew we had found the right teacher. It could be the beginning of a relationship that spans over a decade so I'd make sure the new teacher is the right person for your family.

Just heard from the teacher - apparently she was pressured to leave by the new owners for supposedly advertising for private students - which makes her reaction seem a lot more sane. Anyway she'll be in touch after the dust is settled I guess! In the meantime I might keep her at the same school for one more term and see how it goes - decisions decisions.