I have an 8th grade daughter who is taking Algebra II at the high school but they will not give her High School credit. She is getting credit for math as a middle schooler. Do you have any suggestions as to how to proceed to have this policy changed or places to look for information?

Is she registered for the class and receiving a grade? If so, then it should appear on her transcripts as a high school course. If she is not registered for the class, then I would start with the high school guidance counselor and ask about it. Then, I would go to the district office and talk to the person in charge of gifted.
These days, most schools have electronic grade books, so I am guessing that her name must appear on the teacher's roll or she would not be able to get grades. If that is the case, then she must be listed as a student in the class and it would be available to be on her transcripts.
My DD is in gr 7 and taking algebra 1, a high school course here, and is getting high school credit for it because the law requires that if she is in the class she has to be registered for it because there is a state end of course exam in it.
In fact, that was one of the reasons they tried to get us to keep her out of the class - "if she does poorly it will be on her transcripts and her chances of getting into college will be affected."
I would push for the high school credit because it may be a graduation requirement and you do not want her to have to take it, or any of the pre-requisites again just to get it on her transcripts.

I think the answer to your question is going to depend on which state you live in and possibly which school district. You might be able to get the information about what your specific school district policy is online (or state policy). If the school district/state policy doesn't allow for accepting the course as high school credit, I'd start advocating for it first through the district gifted department head.

Good luck!

polarbear

That's where things vary from state to state. Algebra 1 is also a high school course here, but students who take it in 7th grade do not get high school credit for it. They get high school math placement from it, but not credit on their transcript.

polarbear

That's where things vary from state to state. Algebra 1 is also a high school course here, but students who take it in 7th grade do not get high school credit for it. They get high school math placement from it, but not credit on their transcript.

Same here. My ds12 is taking Alg this year in 7th and ds10 will actually take it next year in 6th, but neither boy will get credit for it. Ds10 takes pre-alg at the MS (he is in 5th grade at the elementary school) and yes, he is registered for the class. I can see him in the online site. However, it will not go on his MS transcripts and the Alg, Geo and AlgII/Trig that he takes in 6th, 7th and 8th grades will also not go on his HS transcripts. He will fulfill his needed three years of math by taking pre-Calc, Calc and Calc III in HS. I am not sure what he'll do his last year- maybe some FACs or something more laid back
I'm actually excited that my ds10, who has always raced through math with minimum effort, is not being graded. His pre-alg teacher is a very precise and particular grader (last test he got points off for not copying the "repeating decimal" sign on a number in his scratch work-not the answer, but just the work he did off to the side-even though it didn't change the answer and the repeating decimal sign wasn't part of the answer... their "scratch" work is graded because all work must be shown). It's kind of nice that he is learning to be very careful and specific and grades don't matter!

This could be challenging... our school would handle it the same way, no HS credit. I would think the only reason you would actually care is if she plans to graduate from high school early. If you are just worried that she won't have four years of math in actual high school, you can explain this on the college apps and note the grade she received with the explanation. I guess I would hang onto her middle school report card as proof, but very much doubt it would be requested.

My son is taking Algebra I as a 7th grader and will take Geometry as an 8th grader. Where we are, he gets credit for taking the class but the grade doesn't figure into his high school GPA. The state still requires four years of math in high school, so he'll take Alg II through Calc III.

I agree that you need to check with both your school district and your state.

Thanks for all your input. We live in CO. No GT coordinator at this time. Small town so only one hs. I have lots to think about. I am not worried about her running out of math classes just feel that if she is putting in the time with all the other hs students she should get the credit. May need to rethink that. Students do have the opportunity for dual enrollment with community college nearby.

Well, you might care if your state mandates PARTICULAR math classes for high school diplomas (and some do). Beyond that is fine... but if your state says that "geometry" must be included for high school graduation, "calc II" isn't going to substitute for it.

BTDT. This is why we INSISTED that my then 10 yo DD be given high school credit for geometry. It was a high school course, taken with high school classmates. Ergo-- high school credit.

So glad that we insisted, looking back from 11th grade.

Here, a passing grade in algebra and a passing end of course exam are now required for graduation, whether it is taken as a middle schooler or not, if a student doesn't have it on their transcripts, they will not graduate! The state is specific about which courses are required because of the new end of course exams.

I guess I'm a bit confused as to what the up side is to not giving HS credit to MS students who are taking HS classes. The advantages are many. If a HS requires a MS student to repeat a class they've already taken in MS that's flat out damaging. The more HS credit a student has on their HS transcript when applying for college admissions and scholarshipes, the better, especially if they're core classes.

DD9 is in the same situation. She is in 6th taking Algebra 2 at the high school. They just can't give her HS credit cause she's not in high school yet. She will earn the grade and it will be on her middle school transcript. But I figure by the time she gets to high school she'll take community college math. Right now it's doesn't seem like a big deal..I'm not sure.

Just a word of caution about high schoolers taking community college courses, some of the CO state universities won't accept CO community college courses for credit. I'm not sure about placement. I have a friend who had her HS kid take Calculus at the local community college. Colorado School of Mines would not accept the course work for credit (BTW, they don't accept IB for credit either). I am not sure how they determined placement. I've heard that CU Boulder accepts some courses but not others. Not sure, about CSU. It appears to be on a school by school basis.

I wouldn't expect a college to except a community college math course for credit. I would hope they would accept it as a math requirement from HS.

I have some knowledge of how Mines gave out credit on entrance, but it's old knowledge so don't take it for truth today, but it might be helpful in thinking through how we plan for our kids during high school (or middle schoolers taking high school courses etc). At the point in time I have experience, the individual department chairs at Mines had the discretion to determine how placement was granted. The math department, for instance, gave full course credit for a 5 on the AP Calc exam, while the Physics department only gave 1/2 semester credit for a 5 on the AP Physics exam - so a student who took a full year of AP Physics in high school (which at that time included mechanics + electricity & magnetism) would only place out of the first semester mechanics class and would have to repeat the e&m semester, even though they had mastered that work first time around. I can also understand why Mines might not accept community college credits in core classes due to being the cc courses having less rigor. OTOH, they did at that time grant credit for cc courses in areas that weren't core.

I think that when your child is still in middle school or early high school and you don't even know yet which college they will apply to or what course of study they want to pursue, it can get really frustrating trying to think ahead through whether or not your child will get appropriate placement at the college level for the work they are doing now or will do because of a course choice you make now. College/university placement requirements vary from institution to institution, and there is *no* way of knowing for certain that the same placement policies that are in place now will be in place 3 years from now. Plus what happens if you make all your decisions based on one university's system, only to find that when your child is a senior they get a full ride scholarship to a different and very prestigious university that has an entirely different policy? You can make some educated guesses about what to do but you can't bank the weight of a decision about the coursework on what might happen with first year college course placement.

JMO, but I think it's much more important to meet the needs and wants of your child now, and if that means you risk them possibly having to repeat a class in college, that's a risk worth taking.

polarbear

I only mentioned it because the OP seems frustrated that her MS is not getting credit for a HS class. I just wanted to point out that she may have the same problem with a "college" level class taken in HS. I totally get that community college may not be as rigorous, etc.

eta: I've also heard of some craziness where our local school district won't give HS credit for classes taken at local universities because the professors are not accredited by the school district.

Yep. In my DD's school, Honors and AP classes are weighted.

College coursework, while accepted for credit, IS NOT.

Ergo, a student who plays the game and takes all "honors" high school classes gains significantly in the class rankings sweepstakes over one who take COLLEGE coursework from sophomore year on.

(Insane. Completely INSANE.)

Also just want to reiterate that algebra I, geometry, and algebra II look to become "mandated" high school graduation requirements under the coming storm-- Common Core. This is already true in some states. (Mine being one of them.)

I'd be very, very wary of allowing my child to NOT have those on a high school transcript at this point, if s/he is taking them at that high school but earlier than a graduation cohort year. The problem is that you don't KNOW ahead of time what standards will be imposed on a particular graduation cohort until your child is in 9th grade and assigned a cohort year.


The thing about "exceptions" to those kinds of rules is that while the promises are seemingly easily made... sometimes the exceptions themselves are NOT as easily made as they sounded. (Oh, sure we can do that {in two years}-- no problem! Becomes "I'll have to call {Mr. X} at {state agency Z} and find out what we can do under state law... be aware that we may have no choice but to {do this thing we were promising you wouldn't have to do}...")

Community colleges have a dual mission -- to grant two-year associate degrees and to prepare students to transfer to four-year colleges. I WOULD expect a 4-year state university to grant credit for non-remedial courses taken in community colleges in the same state, as spelled out in an "articulation agreement".

The College Board has an AP Credit Policy Info site http://collegesearch.collegeboard.com/apcreditpolicy/index.jsp which links to school-specific sites.

Harvard has a system of online placement exams that students take over the summer, math and writing being required http://placement-info.fas.harvard.edu/icb/icb.do . Probably many other universities do as well.

I wouldn't expect a college to 'accept' a community college math course for credit.

I just don't think Harvard (or a like university) should accept a calculus class taken at our local CC.

I read anecdotal story on the web about a girl that took the highest math she could and then went to take math courses at UConn while in high school and then gained entranced to Ivy League. They said they wouldn't accept the course from UConn and made her retake the class. BUT when she was among the top in the country she realized she was way behind even taking the math from a good university.

Like Polarbear said...I can't really plan what will happen in the future and where she'll be.

I think most colleges these days require students to take a math placement exam, many also require a foreign language placement exam if the student has foreign language credits and plans to take such classes in college as a continuation. This would seem the logical way to determine if the AP or college credit class attempting to be transferred should be accepted.

Many colleges are cutting back on what they'll allowed to transfer, they're also demanding higher AP test scores in order to be transferred. Likely colleges are feeling the funding crunch too, less classes taken means money out of their pocket.

At our very good public high school, they offer 30 Honors or AP classes. (Some are in topics like AP Chinese, which my kids will never take, LOL). Each is weighted to push the GPA above a 4.00. Our school only allows high schoolers to take one community college (or regular college) course for credit, period.
Why is that? Our California community colleges are woefully underfunded. They can't manage the college kids they have, much less high schoolers. Our high school also offers some fantastic classes- the mathy kids can take AP Calculus AB and BC and AP Stats. AP physics, chem, and bio. That would keep most even HG kids busy.

I found the anecdote I referred (not sure how long ago this was):

"We were both gifted children, who had teacher parents and went to school in a very small district. The resources for us were limited, but we did all that they offered us.
I could have gone to UCONN and started as a 2nd semester sophomore since I took so many classes through the UCONN co-op program (what they offered us instead of AP). But, I got into an Ivy league college, so I went there. You know what? I was a math major and a Spanish minor. In Spanish, I was about average for kids who went there. For math, I was LIGHT YEARS behind my peer majors. I had to take 4 pre-reqs before I could start my major. Why? Because in my district, the highest math I could take as a senior in high school was calculus 1 - UCONN's version. My college threw that in the trash (not challenging enough) and made me re-take Calc 1, plus Calc 2, 3 and Diff Eq before they let me start my major. I did it by doubling up, and was summa cum laude in my major when all was said and done, but I had to bust hump to do it - and it was difficult.
My sister went to another Ivy league college and wound up in a similar boat, as a biochem major. She made it, graduated high in her class, and is a surgeon now.
My point is, we were both at a significant disadvantage because there were no resources for us in our elementary/high schools as gifted kids. We took the hardest classes available to us and we were still behind. It left us with a ton of catch-up work to do when we got to college. Now, we are both ridiculous overachievers, so we did it - but not all kids are that motivated."

So my thought is who knows what school DD will end up at and how prepared she'll be taking whatever highest course offered to her at our local school. But seems like getting the grade/credit for a high school course maybe the least of her problems. I don't care much about the grade from our local high school. It's too easy for her anyway. By the time she gets to high school she should pursue something more challenging than our AP math courses.

Just make sure your daughter takes the AP courses and takes the Calc BC AP test. That is how she will receive credit/acceleration in college. Not sure where the story above came from, but very few kids - even Ivy League kids - take Calc 3 (Linear Algebra) and Diff Eq prior to college. While my middle kid may take Linear Algebra at the HS, I don't think there is a way to get credit for it in college, unless perhaps she took it at a respected local college (such as an Ivy or top LAC). Then again, she isn't interested in math or any technical major, so she probably doesn't need it. Most majors wouldn't require math beyond Diff Eq. Maybe try some math courses outside the norm, such as Number Theory.

And back to the original issue in this thread, make sure you know your state HS graduation requirements, so your daughter fulfills those with whatever courses she takes.

YES.

Nobody here (I think) would argue that children with high ability should be PREVENTED from taking algebra, etc. while not yet in high school.

Only that doing so shouldn't cause problems later in an administrative sense-- and that it can if those early high school courses aren't listed on high school transcripts.