I have a 12 year old who is less than fond of math and I am looking for some new resources that might float her boat a bit more, or some advice on how to get over the "math hating".

A bit of background...she went to a college prep school for elementary school and did very well in math, she absolutely hated the homework, thought of it as busy work and would take an hour completing something that should have taken her 15 minutes because of her bitter complaining about it, but would score extremely well on any test. For the last two years she went to a "gifted" school, and continued to complain about math, not because of homework, because she didn't get any, but because of the teaching (unfortunately the gifted school did not seem to teach math well and I think we took a giant step back). I hired a tutor for her last year and she liked the tutor and seemed to be OK with doing the work and she seemed to grasp the concepts, but the math complaints continued. To be fair she is much more of a language arts kind of kid, but she also loves the sciences and I think she has a knack for math but I just can't seem to find the right trigger to get her excited about it.

Forward to our current situation...this year we will be delving into homeschooling full time and we have been experimenting with the various online sources. I LOVE AoPS, she "hates" it...I think it is because it stretches her and forces her to get away from the rote work she so bitterly complained about previously (but was able to do) to actually having to "think". We also looked at Life of Fred and while she in mildly interested in the story telling I can not see building a math program around it. Most recently we are trying iMACs, she seems to like this, but this morning she tells me she can't see how any of the information she is "learning" will be useful :-) We've only scratched the surface of this program though.

Does anyone have a child who was not into math, but found a way to turn it around? Part of me thinks she is so used to complaining about it that anything I introduce will fail. This is probably as much of a parenting issue as it is a content issue. How can I help this kid??? Any advice is most welcome!

I can't help but think our DD10 sounds just like your daughter. She deliberately flunked out of her AoPS class! She was mad that she had extra homework her friends did not. I will say that she is working on AoPS now because she and her friend decided to get together once a week for a math class with this friend's mom. It was all about having a friend do it with her that made it (somewhat) fun. Now she and I work on the problems side by side. She gets pretend peeved when I get the answer first (I haven't done this kind of math in years so I am enjoying it as well!!).

Both of your DDs sound a bit like mine. DYS DD10 seems to have a love-hate relationship with math. While she hates extra math work and becomes bored in math very easily, she seems to take some pride in being "good at" math. While she is extremely strong verbally (via testing it is usually her extreme strength), she also tests well in math. She complains school math is too easy/boring, but AoPS...not sure that is working, either. She is in a class right now and is not thrilled about having to do any math work outside of school (which is not making homeschooling ever look like a great option, in case I was wondering ). To be fair, AoPS classes move at a pretty quick pace and require more work than I'd realized (not easy to sell during summer, but this seemed like the only time to really try it). I, too, am trying to figure out how to best help this kid!!!

DD, too, loves science...so I see math as important for her.

greenlotus - I think that DD would like the "friend," but I'm not sure who I'd recruit. Most of DD's friends on not even in her leveled math class at school.

Some fun things (not necessarily a program or curriculum) that might turn her onto math...

Number Devil...fun book...you can research each concept they talk about together.

The Math Instinct: Why you're a Mathematical genius (along with lobsters, birds, cats, and dogs)...by Keith Devlin, NPR's "math guy"

I don't have a girl (two boys) and I have never explored her books but you can look into Danica McKellar's books for girls about math. She is mathy and proud of it so there may be something there.

My DD loves the Number Devil and has even reread it a few times so I can second its recommendation!

If your current goal is to try and stimulate her affinity for math, you may wish to go with resources which she has expressed some amount of interest in... the story-telling style of Life of Fred.

If your goal is different, such as getting her to perform at a specific level, and/or to like a specific resource because you like it (AoPS), possibly with an underlying thought that high math achievement and/or experience with AoPS may be consistent with stereotypical "giftedness"... that may be more difficult.

Because you mentioned online resources, there's also the Khan Academy review of common core math. This may also help you understand what level she is at, according to common core standards.

Have you looked at jousting armadillos?

What level math is she on? I found math boring until I took Algebra, same with DS16. All math is not equal I find "arithmetic" very boring and tedious. I don't have a lot of good suggestions other than those above. But something you said hit a bell me with me.

My DS16 is also very good at math, picks up new concepts quickly and test well. But it has always taken him a lot longer to do math homework than the other kids in his gifted program making math frustrating. I didn't really understand what was going on until I got DS tested last summer. DS has much lower low processing & working memory but very gifted at Perceptual Reasoning. Therefore explaining why he picks up the material easy but gets bogged down in hours of homework. Therefore you might want a math program that doesn't include large amounts of practice.

Thank you for the replies thus far...you all have mentioned things I am not aware of, so I will look into everything!

My immediate goal for her is to just like math, or at the very least not fight it, she seems genuinely pleased when she "gets it", then the walls come up when answers aren't forthcoming quick enough (in her mind).

I want her to keep all her options open, at 12 it is hard to predict where her path will take her, so I just want to keep all the gears greased!

You might be onto something here....her processing speed is quite a bit lower than her Perceptual Reasoning as well. It is hard for me to figure out how much work to "assign" to see if she has truly grasped a concept and we are OK to move on. Hopefully I will figure this out fairly quickly or we will both be struggling! We are currently refreshing Pre-Algebra so she will be ready for Algebra in the Fall.

As far as I can tell, there is nothing that will destroy love of math faster and more thoroughly than elementary school. As DS went from utter math monster, to thinking he both hated math AND was no good at it, I found it necessary to constantly reiterate that what he did at school was not math. It was repetitive computation (and lots and lots and lots of writing), but it was not math. It's been a struggle to keep the idea of "math" attached to those things in which he finds great beauty and joy.

It's been an even greater struggle to convince him that he can and must work hard, on hard problems that he doesn't know how to do, in order to find that beauty. Many of you provide strong reminders of why it's so hard on kids to wait so long before experiencing their first math that requires them to think. OK, sorry about rant. My actual response to OP now

Labmom, since you're homeschooling, how essential is it to follow a particular curriculum and accomplish specific tasks (i.e. do Algebra next year?). Can you take some time (even if just the first few months) to simply explore neat ideas? Wallow in videos (like Numberphile and the zillion awesome links down the side) and cool books (from Fred to Penrose the Cat to Martin Gardner). In other words, teach her to think mathematically, and solve problems, but not necessarily focus on the next step in the math curriculum?

A transition step might be to build some problem solving skills - and confidence - by working on some math contest challenges at a level a bit below her current abilities. The actual math in the contest questions won't be hard; it's the learning to think that's tricky. I find the Math Kangaroo questions, for example, require little math but a lot of out-of-the-box thinking (don't know if the US questions are similar; here's ours: https://kangaroo.math.ca/index.php?kn_mod=samples&year=NO).

Also, you may find quite different types of math appeal to different kinds of thinkers. DS is extremely visual spatial, and adores geometry and anything visualizable; linear stuff like algebra, not so much. He endured AoPS Algebra until we got to the chapter on Cartesian planes, and suddenly he is literally quivering and giggling with excitement (me, I'm way better at algebra). If you have the flexibility to find what floats her boat, and focus there for a while, it might be easier to then go back later and work on some of the missing tools that will help her do the kinds of problems/ math she likes. (In our house, Algebra is a necessary but unpleasant step to get to AoPS geometry).

Keep us posted - this is obviously a challenge shared by many. Good luck, and good for you for taking the leap into homeshooling; I hope it goes really well.

Yes, yes, and YES...to everything you wrote Platypus! My linear brain wants to move in the must follow a path mode, but DD would welcome a mix up of ideas. And my end goal is to get her to love (or as I said at least tolerate) the math process...which isn't rote work but problem solving. She thinks way outside of the box in her daily life and problem solves quite well.

You comments made me think back to when she was 3-5 and loved anything "mathy" (which was really just problem solving at that point). At that time I thought she would soar in mathematics because she "got it". Enter life in public, then private school, and an awful program called "Everyday Mathematics" and it sucked the joy right out of her. And I was stupid enough to believe the teachers that this was the way to deeper understanding and I should stop doing what we were doing at home. Stupid me! Trust your instincts folks......

Thanks again to all of you...now I am off to find some cool, interesting things to bring the spark back!

Three to five problems is all it takes to see if someone has a concept. If they do move on...if they don't then who wants someone practicing something wrong for twenty problems.

Yes, many parents have voiced concerns and complaints about this program, which was created for common core standards.

You could try looking at the LivingMath! website for non-textbook ideas. We have heaps of recreational math books at home, mostly Martin Gardner, but also a stack of Murderous Maths, Theoni Pappas books, and a random assortment of others. DS9 also goes on Vi Hart and Numberphile binges.

There are also lots of math books like Balance Benders out there. My kids generally like doing these, and don't consider them math.

DD8 seems to be similar: good at math, but seems to think she isn't and says she hates it. I'm working on turning it around, too. This summer we are trying a combination of Khan Academy (she tolerates) and LoF (she loves), which I think of like dinner and dessert.

Are you sure about that? I am not in the US but Everyday Math was first published in1988 according to their site and complaints about common core seem alot more recent than that.

Sorry for the imprecise language.
Quoting from the website: "engineered for the Common Core State Standards".
EM4 is the "aligned" version, created/engineered for CCSSM.
This is the Everyday Math that most families/students are familiar with, as EM has been put into widespread use specifically because of common core, hence the recent complaints.

EDM has been around used increasingly since the first edition in '98, and wasn't created for CC state standards (which the NGA officially organized in 2009). EDM has had to align with CCSS, though, in it's latest edition, and there's some conflict over it; for example, the kids were previously not pushed using EDM to do rote memorization, but now they do math fact fluency. Also, the lack of technology references in the CCSS might conflict with the EDM encouragement of use of calculators. (Note, as a non-educator, my observation compares extended family & friend experiences in elementary arithmetic ten years ago to my kids today.)

I got an email from CTY about a game called Descarte's Cove that looks a bit like Myst - could be fun. I am on the fence myself as coming from CTY it is automatically $$++ does anyone here have any experience with this program/game?

The Number Devil...madeinuk, we picked this up at the library and DD won't put it down. Thanks!

In our area, EM preceded the Common Core by many years. Now we have the double whammy...Common Core EM.

Is that actually as bad as it sounds?

Yes, unfortunately, it is.

FWIW, here is a brief thumbnail sketch of EM's history, as I understand it (feel free to correct me, disagree, etc.; this is off the top of my head):

EM was written in the 1980s, originally as a collaboration between the mathematics and education departments at U of C. Unfortunately, that collaboration apparently didn't work out and the mathematicians left the project (e.g. Paul Sally).

Circa 1989-1990, NCTM set forth "standards." I will leave a characterization of those standards to google. See also "Math Wars."

In 1992, a guy named Phil Daro authored(?) the California math standards using much of the language from the NCTM.

EM was one of the programs widely adopted in many geographic locations in light of the NCTM standards. Sometimes such programs were referred to as "fuzzy."

In 1997(?), California changed its standards.

Phil Daro is also one of the authors of the CC math standards and again used some of the NCTM language. Accordingly, controversial programs like EM that had fallen out of favor in recent years are coming back around in some places.

If it helps, we have a lot of love/hate for AoPS in our house... I love it, my kids like the math but hate getting homework done (and here I thought they were the only ones! At least my ds does his python homework LOL)

Maybe the Mathcounts class at AoPS or better yet an in-real-life Mathcounts club/team? I imagine that class involves less homework because there's no book.

I have no idea if this will help, but this thread made me think. I grew up hating math, and had a pretty good idea that I would never need it. I found this, and found it interesting http://www.ted.com/conversations/16890/why_does_everyone_hate_math.html

Math is a language, but we don't really get a lot of its benefits until we get to higher math. Both my kids love to read (not so much to write, but they love reading). What if all they ever got in school was spelling tests, lessons in proper sentence structure, and the alphabet? No reading?

But that's how we teach math. Memorization and drills. And we never tell them why we are doing it. So I sat my kids down and explained it to them. I said math is the language of the universe. We used it to figure out where to send New Horizons 10 years ago so that, even in a constantly moving solar system, and even though we only knew about 1/3 of Pluto's orbit.. we could get a probe the size of a grand piano to the the Pluto system.

I showed them fibonacci spirals in nature and I explained to them that the reason we know about the smallest known particle in the universe (the smallest lego piece in kid terms) and black holes is because we are using math.

I don't think anyone shows kids the "reading" part. They just show them the drills. I am going to be looking for opportunities to teach them math to understand their world in a more poetic way. I am not a natural mathy person, so I do not know if this translates to mathy kids who already get it…but anyway, if it helps maybe it's not just curriculum, it's big picture. Sort of like, if you learn French, we can go to Paris...

I agree that you've found a winning approach.