Does anyone know if a class taken at the local community college is better received by the University admissions board than an AP course credit? Vice-versa? Both about the same? Is there a life expectancy of an AP credit? I believe college classes are around 7 years if I am not mistaken.

Thanks!

Hmmm-- can you maximize A by enrolling in a summer course or two and transferring those dual enrollment credits somehow onto the local flagship transcript?

The other advantage that has (though this would presumably only be true at the state flagships where there is reciprocity with your CC) is that it provides a GPA cushion for the first term on-campus, when many kids (even gifties) experience adjustment issues, and lower grades than at other times.




Case B-- hmmm. I can't really speak to that with anything like authority, but I know that others on the forum probably can.

What is your goal? Getting into a top tier school or getting into the state flagship? Getting the kid through H.S. with his spirit intact?

I ask because if the goal is getting into the 'best' school and you are playing the game to get the highest GPA you want to take as many AP & honors classes as you can take and gets A's in them. Community College classes (at least in my state) don't get you the +1 GPA point.

If you are looking what will best challenge your student you need to look at your school and your community college. What is offered and what reputation both have. At our H.S. the H.S. honors & AP classes are more rigorous and difficult than the 'equivalent' community college classes in my area. The AP classes (in my area) are more likely to have my son's intellectual peers.

On the other hand taking classes at a local Community College can be an excellent way to go for some students or for classes not offered at the High School. Or if you want to add more classes in the summer. And AP classes aren't for all kids, many AP classes in my area are intense, with huge homework demands, and a lot of competition for the top scores. They can be more stressful and more work than a typical college class. And some students like my son are so ready to be out of the nit picky H.S. class environment and ready for college style classes.

I am a bit frustrated that we don't have a dual program at our local community because I think it might be a good fit for my DS who is right now a sophomore in H.S. We might still look at him taking one or two classes at the community college. We looked into my son taking Japanese at the local CC for a while and I still might suggest that route for one class his senior year. DS is a sophomore and right now I'm taking things one year at a time, and at this point in the year it's looking likely he will get into AP Calculus and one of the AP Sciences next year so we will probably stick with that.

Bluemagic and HK gave you good advice. It depends upon the CC. Around here, I'm pretty sure my 5th grader could pass most courses at the CC. In other areas of the country, there are some very good CCs.

When my middle kid needed to take Chemistry over the summer to make her HS schedule work, our HS did not recognize the local CC course for credit - they recognized a local, highly regarded private school summer Chemistry course.

Most kids at our HS who run out of courses (mainly in math) go to local 4 year colleges for courses. We are fortunate that there are six of those within about 3 or 4 miles of the HS.

Many colleges do not recognize the CC credits. The quality and content of the courses is too varied from CC to CC for colleges to deem which courses are worthy of credit. AP courses, however, are supposed to cover certain material and are standardized (to a degree). If the kid takes the AP exam, his score gives the colleges a way to compare him to every other kid who took the exam.

I think AP scores are good for five years, but you should find that information on the College Board website. Even if college courses are good for 10 years, I don't see the need to credit a kid for something he took when he was eight.

It is wise to check the website of the college/university which your child plans to apply to, and it sounds as though you may have done that. You may want to print the admissions criteria each semester and compare for changes, as the criteria may change over time.

In general
- state universities may grant more credits and/or advanced standing,
- private colleges/universities may grant fewer credits and/or advanced standing,
- highly selective colleges/universities may not grant any credit or advanced standing although for admissions they may look favorably upon the student who has earned advanced credits as this student has demonstrated successful learning under a variety of circumstances and/or educational environments. That said, over the years several parents have cautioned that earning college credits may, in some cases, prevent a student from entering a college as a Freshman when it is their desire to enter as a Freshman. Rather they may be given Transfer Student status.

There is no credit for taking an AP course per se. Rather, the score from having taken an AP exam is typically translated into the number of credits which would be granted by a particular institution. A student may take an AP exam whether they took the corresponding AP course or studied another way such as homeschool.

College Board CLEP exams (College Level Exam Program) provide another cost-effective means of gaining college credits and/or advanced standing.

Students not interested in exams are often advised to earn actual college credits: the grade earned and the credits earned in the course are not subject to a second step confirmation such as a standardized exam. Davidson THINK Summer Institute is one way for students to earn college credits.

It is possible to maximize college credits earned by utilizing a combination of strategies.

In that case, dual enrollment credits (preferably TAUGHT at the high school with that higher-level cohort of fellow classmates-- these may be labeled "honors" "AP" or something else entirely) seem preferable by far.

Many universities outside of the top tier, even, have policies that are increasingly hostile to AP credits. It can also change without warning-- so if you go that route, there's no assurance whatsoever that Miskatonic U (er-- or whatever college) will still accept a 5 on the Miscellany Studies AP exam three years hence.

So I wouldn't necessarily assume that a 4 on an AP exam will result in that desirable outcome of not repeating coursework later, even if it is appropriate now (which is why DD took AP courses, to be sure).

CLEP is a much surer thing, but for those, a study guide will be recommended, since there isn't a "course" that serves as preparation for the exam. I'll also warn you that AP coursework comes in several functional varieties-- that which serves as a year of intensive test prep (ick!), that which teaches the subject well and at a brisk pace (YAY!!), and that which piles on ENORMOUS amount of work, none of it all that difficult, but enough to make the Tiger families feel smug about that extra GPA point, and justified in whipping their children through 18 hour days...(double ick).

We've seen examples of all three-- and in the same school, no less.

Dual enrollment AP coursework tends to be of the middle variety since students have to pass assessments which are aimed at the COLLEGE COURSE. My DD's exams for her dual enrollment courses are kept on file by the college which issued the credits, and those exams were, similarly, constructed by the college faculty, not by her high school teacher(s) of record. Ergo, I have a fair degree of confidence that those courses were "real" in terms of rigor and depth. The hybridization also meant that there was no requirement for my DD to sit the AP exam that went with the class (that is a requirement for some schools, who definitely pressure students to sit those exams-- but it varies in intensity), and that when applying to colleges, they saw "AP" on her transcripts, not "blah-blah course."

In some ways that was a perfect happy medium. I hope that something similar is available for you.

Well, if you really want to look down the road… many graduate programs and medical programs do not count AP courses for the prerequisites. So if Med school A requires Physics your DC may wind up taking it senior year despite taking it in high school and passing the AP exam. The phrasing used by the western interstate medical school exchange program is "Undergraduate or post/baccalaureate required courses must be completed at a college or university accredited by the appropriate regional accrediting body". I still think that AP (or community college) courses are a good choice, just be prepared that the course work may still need to be retaken.

In my day (early 80s for those interested), sure you got credit for Chem with the AP score..but it was Chem for the minions. There was a different course that was required of Chem majors, or other science majors or pre-med kids. So if you were a Psychology major you were golden. Chemistry AP counted toward the general requirement for 9 hours of science but if you were a biology major it was just 3 hours of elective science and you took Chem for science majors. BUT that doesn't mean your AP class wasted your time. You were well prepared for the Chem for science majors class and some other kid without that AP class behind him/her might have had to take the class twice.

And where do MOOCs fit, if at all, here? Thanks.

For MOOCs, you may wish to see the website of the college/university being applied to, especially admissions and transfers, as well as the website of the MOOC, including the syllabus of the specific course(s).

Portia - thanks, thanks so much for asking and posting this thread.

We're in your ETA stage with our ds. I do know that some MOOCs have quizzes/tests which you can print and possibly submit as part of a transcript, if that helps.

MIT claims on their homeschool admission page to consider their OpenCourseWare - http://mitadmissions.org/apply/prepare/homeschool

I do think MIT and other universities are (and will be) increasingly using MOOCs as a recruitment tool. MIT is known for taking kids at age 14, but I haven't heard of them taking kids younger or how they regard kids under age 13 taking MOOCs. But I'm curious to hear what others may know or have heard through the grapevine.

Simon's Rock takes kids younger than 13, but that's another can of worms, I think.

Same boat here with ds. He is 2e too. He's been in public/private schools, but we've been un/homeschooling for the last three years now. Nothing 'normal' here.

At least there are some of us here on non-traditional paths.

As for MOOCs, they are still relatively new and untested. They've only really become more and more widespread within the last couple of years. So where that possibly leaves our kids is anyone's guess. It's hard to say. Not all MOOCs are created equal.

Still, the breadth and depth of many MOOCs seems foolish to discount. Then, there's the key factor about them being FREE and the intrinsic motivation factor that's required to complete a MOOC, imo.

One thing that you also have to take into consideration is that in some places your dual enrollment credits actually hurt your chances of getting into a 4 year university afterwards. This is because lets say you do 2 full years of dual enrollment and get great grades, a 4 yr university could see you as a direct transfer student from the community college into junior year and therefore only think you will be with them for 2 years. The university will not make as much money on you in this case as they would if you had come to them with a bunch of AP scores, and therefore will not accept you. I have also had students who have been accepted into university but 1/2 of their dual enrollment credits didn't transfer and they had to repeat the classes anyways.
I think in the end what you need to look at most is which classes would best suit the needs of your kid and hope that it fits with where and what they want to do later. Especially because universities are wanting more from kids nowadays to differentiate between applicants than ever before.

This is the quintessential question. Some may say that while striving to maximize credits for credentialed formal education, it may be important to also give a nod to the benefits of life-long learning of the kind which may not earn credits/credentials.

Keeping a list or portfolio of learning experiences beyond those which may be required for a given credential may prove helpful when applying for educational, experiential, or employment opportunities as it may tend to indicate an interest and drive which go "above and beyond" requirements.

There are many individuals with a body of expertise developed outside of the formal education system. Such knowledge may be inspired by a pivotal life experience and can be a sign of strong internal motivation and personal dedication.

The thought of taking a formal course for credit in an area one has previously studied may call to mind the boring repetition and stagnation some may have experienced in elementary/middle/high school, however many college-level courses incorporate the lived experiences of the course professor alongside the text material and can therefore be very interesting and not seem like "repeating" a course. Additionally, there are new developments in STEM fields which both add relevance to each course taken, and also help manage student expectations regarding the need for ongoing professional development throughout their careers.

I would recommend AP exams and classes. Many competitive/private colleges will not accept community college credit. Also, having interviewed kids for Ivy league colleges who did both, my impression, at least in our area, is that AP exams are more difficult.

Forgive me if this is obvious, but is there any way to tell the different types apart than word of mouth (ie, are there any big red flags in the homework load or course content)?
I think we have some classes here in which students can receive articulated college credit, but it seems like it's just a guessing game which ones will be more rigorous courses and/or accepted by anything besides the local CC's and state uni.

You may wish to check the website of the colleges/universities your child plans to apply to. A search for admissions and for transfer credit may help you locate a list of credits which may be granted. As this information may change over time, you may wish to check these each semester and print the current information, comparing for changes from past lists.

For example, the current information from the MIT website states, in part: