Hi all DD 4 is desperate to do "proper" math, any recommendations?

I am trying to choose between Singapore math, math u see and dreambox. Wondering which would suit a reluctant reader who is more on the side of being visually spatial.

We did use starfall, but found that she wasn't progressing and in the end it just became "video games" where getting the wrong answer was just as fun (because of the silly noises) she would play the same things over again.

The other thing is how culturally biased are they? As we are in NZ many things are similar but for eg if money is used a great deal to explain concepts that wouldn't be suitable. If one focuses on metric that would be best as well

I would also consider Miquon (with cuisenaire rods) for a VSL.

We used Singapore with my highly verbal V/S kiddo. She is almost anti-tactile, though-- so manipulatives were a complete waste of time for her personally. Given your location, I think that you'd find Singapore Math Primary Maths to be culturally sensitive and pretty diverse.

Hi! Did another post this morning with a similar comment, and don't want to be repetitive, but don't know how to cross-reference, so apologies if I sound like the AoPS marketing squad today....

Art of Problem Solving's Beast Academy might suit your DD (http://www.artofproblemsolving.com/Store/beastacademy.php). From my own experience and consistent with many reviews I read, the kids who respond most to AoPS tend to be very visual-spatial, "whole-to-parts" learners, and math-inclined.

My main experience is with the older kids pre-algebra/ algebra, but Beast Academy is a distinct curriculum, currently available for grades 3 and 4 (I'm trying to entice my 2E DD8 into the grade 3 - we'll see. DS10 is the math man). The books are all comic form, and a lot of parent reviews I saw described kids (both much older and younger) reading them over and over for pleasure, with or without working through the associated math problems. So even if grade 3 is a bit more than you were looking for, I get the impression you can take them as lightly or substantially as your kid is inclined to go. DD carried them everywhere she went for a week (I have the whole grade three set) and perused them endlessly (looking more than reading, which she doesn't enjoy) - though I am still trying to get her to do any of the actual math!

AoPS is American, but we never really noticed. In the pre-alegebra course we only had to Google conversion factors once (seriously - 5280 feet in a mile? Thank god for metric). There were money questions, but it didn't make any difference that their dollars aren't Canadian dollars... and most of them were actually in problems that involved converting between multiple currencies. (The "feet" question came up in conversions too, now that I think about it.)

Dreambox

wow - thanks all, off to research a bit more

I found SM PM to be quite a good fit for my visual-spatial, reluctant reader/writer. I did modify a little, as I read word problems aloud, and scribed a lot up through 5A/B. And I skipped many of the kindergarten-level numeral writing exercises in SM Earlybird, as fine motor skills were not at that level, at the time.

The foot-pound system really only comes up in the US/Standards editions, and even then, it's only in the units on measurement that occur in, I think, 3A/B (or thereabouts). The majority of it is metric, as that is the system in Singapore. Dollars are dollars everywhere, as far as math problems go. And I particularly appreciate the diversity of the children's faces and names of people in word problems.

Thanks Aeh, sounds like where we are at. I looked at the placement stuff and I think we will go with Singapore math. I really appreciate everyone's input.

I really like Miquon. It is deep and flexible. Get the Orange and Red books and let him self select which sheets to do...

I also really like MEP. It starts shockingly easy but mixes in challenges very early. The first couple of weeks, you are insulted by it but then you start seeing the puzzle problems and it all makes sense.

Singapore is great but all of the deep problems are in IP and CWP... That's fine but I prefer to have them mixed in...

For DS, Dreambox was completely worthless. He spent more time learning to use the mouse than learning math. Allowing progress based on speed with a computer is ridiculous at this age. The teaching seems great but is very inflexible. The box factory units should be great for teaching place value but if not... there is no other option. MEP, Miquon, and Singapore all present the material in a wider variety of ways and you can adapt them to your kid's strengths. It is more parent intensive but also more effective.

Thanks raptor dad - being as I have to intl order Singapore math I have put it on the to do list so your thoughts are well timed. As a math Neanderthal I have no idea what you mean about IP and CWP. I'll look at those too.

That brings up another worthwhile point... None of your options are purely self teaching. I would consider Singapore, MEP, and Miquon to all be conceptual math curriculums. One is Asian, one anglo-hungarian, and one constructivist new math. They all take a slightly different approach that is different from traditional US texts. I have no idea what is or was trad in NZ. Whatever you chose, I would try to understand and follow its approach.

Singapore is very big on number bonds, mental math, and bar models. Some parents ignore this and "supplement" the books with more traditional algorithmic instruction at an early age... I think this misses the point. The mental math elements are a huge strength of the program... it doesn't matter that the standard algorithms are introduced in year 2 in SM and year 3 in MEP. The number sense built prior to that is a huge strength of the program. I don't think you need the expensive Home Instructor Guides(HIG) but taking some time to understand what SM is trying to do would be worthwhile.

Many people like Liping Ma's "Knowing and Teaching Elementary Mathematics". I wouldn't buy it, but it well worth reading if you can get if from the library.

My DS started Dreambox around 3.5. It requires no reading because all the instructions are read by the characters in the program. It worked really well for my visual learner and I highly recommend it for the lower grades. We used an ipad, though, and I think that was key.

I am starting to realise I might not be quite as thick at maths as I always thought (poor schooling...) so I'm confident in teaching the math as expected. I really want her to have that broad appreciation that I just don't have - so looking at living math and SM now.

We did the sample lesson on dreambox and it won't suit. It didn't feel intuitive enough for dd to follow, and being VS the spoken instructions were to fast and not clear enough.