some basic background can be found:
link to previous thread

Recently dx'd as ADHD-I and reading disability

We finally received the psycho-educational evaluation report (a month after it was promissed!! ) and are now eagerly trying to figure out the next step.
I am hoping I can get some ideas and advice from ya'll.

DS(10-4th grader)is already on an IEP for speech so hoping that will help things along a bit- but what should we expect and ask for with an official dx(private- so realize that they may want to do a testing through the school still.... but lets just assume that they accept the report and need nothing else)

The psychologist warned us that they may not be to willing to help much since DS is technically not failing anything (his grades have dropped significantly since last year though)

I want to go in with "positive happy thoughts" and assume best case scenario- but to be honest, I am nervous and am losing sleep over this. We plan on contacting the school on Tuesday- what is the best way. Should we give a copy to the teacher and request that she starts the process or do we go straight to the source (who would that be?). Do we hold back our report until the meeting-- or do we give it to them right away.

I feel like I am planning for a battle and I am hoping that I am worried for nothing.

Storys of encouragement are welcomed and any advise on were to start.
I am most concerned about getting the appropriate help for the dyslexia aspect of thing- that is where I am worried that we will hit a brick wall with the school (even though he was not previously dx'd as ADHD-- the teachers have always seen the need for front of the class placement and help on staying on task, this actual dx will just make it official)

And the whole 504 thing confuses me- if an IEP is in place, is that still something to ask for?

Thanks

Students who are eligible for IDEA and Special Education are also covered by "Section 504". Section 504 is a Civil Rights Law, whereas IDEA is an educational law. However, an IEP has all the basic elements of a Modification Plan, plus some very specific features required by IDEA. If an IEP is in place, there is no need for an MP, too.

However, as a parent, you have the right to refuse Special Education Services, for any or no reason at all, even in the face of strong evidence that your child would benefit from those services. In that case, you may want to go with the Modification Plan.

Another big distinction is that Special Education is federally funded (in very complicated ways), while Modification Plans are not funded. In some districts, schools have a financial incentive to find your student eligible for IDEA, so if school staff says your child does not need an IEP, they probably do have the best interest of your child in mind.

Having a diagnosis is only part of IDEA eligibility. The team also needs to reach a consensus that the child needs specially designed instruction to benefit from a Free and Appropriate Public Education. That may be what the psychologist meant.

The educational decisions that the team makes should be based on the actual needs of the individual student, not on the diagnosis or IDEA eligibility category. I've seen appropriately placed students with ADHD (or on the autism spectrum, for that matter) with IEPs, with MPs, or with no plan or eligibility at all.

I'm not big on bombshells, personally. My ideal meeting is boring and predictable--not to mention short--because everybody knows what is going to happen ahead of time. But surprises do happen, and sometimes I go into a meeting truly on the fence, waiting to see what the other members of the team will have to say.

If you do not agree with the eligibility decisions of the team, you do have several steps you can take. One of my favorites is the help of a Disability Rights Advocate. Some of the others should be outlined in the document you received at the time of the Evaluation meeting.

In my limited experience, when you already have an IEP for something else, i.e. speech, the school may be more willing to incorporate newly identified needs into an existing IEP. For example, I know several people who got OT services through school when there was an existing IEP for some other issue.

What do you plan to ask for? If you want some type of supplemental instruction and/or curriculum modification, i.e. Orton-Gillingham reading instruction or a reduction in amount or scope of work, then you are looking for an IEP. A 504 plan will only allow accommodations that allow the student educational access. Often these include extra time, ability to keyboard (but not keyboarding instruction), using t-stands or fidget balls, etc. Typically, students do not get supplemental instruction or curriculum modifications under 504s.

Beckee did a great job of explaining the differences between an IEP and a 504 plan. What you need to do prior to making your request to the school is to think through what your child needs and what you want to accomplish with your request. I think, from what you've posted, you are looking for instructional help with reading and accommodations for ADHD. With respect to the reading, there are two ways that could go (in our district) depending on the severity of the challenge. If the school perceives that your child's need isn't severe enough, they will not provide individualized instruction in reading, which is what is written out in an IEP. However, sometimes schools will include instruction as part of a 504 plan or as RTI. Don't convince yourself ahead of time that your child won't qualify for IEP services just because they are performing at grade level. Our EG ds was performing "at grade level" in writing (his area of disability) per our state testing, and when you averaged his achievement test results together his highs way outbalanced his lows so using the form that the district usually uses, he didn't appear to qualify - yet he was also a kid who could *not* write a 3 paragraph sentence (or even make a list) when he was in 4th grade. We requested that the school give him the TOWL which is much more specific re writing skills and we also made sure that the school looked at his specific test of writing achievement in his area of challenge and were able to argue successfully for IEP services. You're not dealing with written expression as a challenge, but I mentioned that because you can do the same thing with reading, just different tests If what I said didn't make sense, let me know and I can try to explain it more specifically re how we argued our ds' case.

Another thing I'd think through ahead of time if you can is what does your child need for reading instruction - did you have any guidance on this from the private psychologist? Do you know what your school will most likely offer, and what is available at other schools in your district? Is the method your psych suggested offered through your school?

Re accommodations - these are typically put into a 504 plan for kids who have disabilities but don't need or qualify for IEP services. In our district, all accommodations for kids who have an IEP are put into the IEP and the student therefore doesn't have a 504. This is more (I think) for ease of administration and reducing total number of meetings the staff needs to attend than anything else. We ran into a slight potential hiccup with this philosophy in that our ds had an IEP specifically for written expression, but he also has a fine motor disability which impacts his ability to use handwriting. When we tried to get his fine motor accommodations put in place in his IEP there were a few which we were told (initially) that we couldn't put in because they weren't related to his IEP goals and the area under which he qualified for his IEP. It was all beyond ridiculous, and we successfully advocated to get them into his IEP (possibly because we requested a 504 meeting to address his handwriting disability lol). Another thing we ran into in our discussions about accommodations was that the school team did not offer up any accommodations beyond the very standard typical such as "quiet room for testing" and "extended test time"... there were some very typical accommodations for dysgraphia that the school staff didn't mention, so we absolutely needed to know going into the meeting what our ds would need in terms of accommodations, and it helped also to know how to word the request for each.

As knute mentioned, since your ds already has an IEP in place, additional goals can be added to the existing IEP. One thing that I suspect what will have to happen though is that to receive services for a reading disability your child will have to go through the IEP eligibility process again specifically for eligibility under SLD - reading. Students can qualify under multiple eligibility categories, but they don't typical receive services for a category that they haven't been officially qualified for through an eligibility process. I'm guessing his current eligibility is under Speech / Language disorder? If the eligibility category is the same for both, he won't have to go through another eligibility process.

Do you have a copy of the Wrightslaw From Emotions to Advocacy book? If not, it's worth taking a look at. If you have any worries at all that your school won't be receptive to your request, you might also want to consider consulting with an advocate - we were able to find a local (to us) advocate group who's services are free, and they were a tremendous help to us during the eligibility process for our ds.

Best wishes,

polarbear

I think in an ideal world/school district, this would be true - when the school didn't recommend an IEP it would be in the best interest of the child (Beckee, if I've misunderstood what you've written, I apologize!). In the school district my children attend, and in the school districts that many of my friends' children attend, the reality is that the schools are very short-funded and short-staffed in the area of specialists who are needed to give services to children who have a need that would be addressed under an IEP, and there are schools who operate under an agenda to *not* qualify students for an IEP. I won't pretend to understand how the federal funding works, but fwiw the school my son was in at one point was actually in danger of losing their federal funding due to non-compliance with IDEA. They told a *lot* of kids, including my ds, that they didn't need an IEP - and in at least this one case, it wasn't because the child didn't need it. Even after he had an IEP in place, he still wasn't getting the help he needed (and that was outlined in the IEP)... so sadly, not all schools are operating under the "what's best for the child" ideal.

Beckee, please know I'm not trying to pick apart what you said - you are obviously a very caring teacher. Both of my parents were teachers and I respect teachers soooo so very much! I wish my experiences in advocating for my ds in public schools had been very different, and I know that there are many great school districts out there where kids who need IEPs will get their IEPs and get what they need from the school. I write about our experience for two reasons - 1) it's not all that uncommon from what I've heard from other parents and 2) it's easy to go into the process trusting that the school is looking out for your child - and if they do try to pull the wool over your eyes, unless you've done your research outside of the school, it is easy as a parent to just take everything that's said at face value. Plus it's also tough to advocate for assistance when you have an EG kiddo who has huge IQ scores and huge achievement scores in their areas of strength - some teachers will pass off areas of challenge as the student simply "not trying".

polarbear

polarbear

I know that you already have gone through the IEP process. I don't know whether that process was straight forward or more adversarial. So here's another thing that I meant to mention but you may already know -- put everything in writing. I usually send the school an email agenda listing topics/questions that I would like to address at the meeting and invite school staff to circulate additions to the agenda. If you make it clear what you would like to accomplish ahead of time, staff is more likely to come prepared to respond to your requests. If you go in expecting the staff to just "know what to do," I think that you will be disappointed unless this is a group with lots of experience with 2e kids.

Also, after the meeting, I circulate a copy of my notes from the meeting including identifying responsible parties and deadlines for actions agreed at the meeting, i.e. Ms. Smith, literacy specialist, will administer the GORT and report results to the team by X date. I also discuss when the team will meet again.

Great suggestions, knute974!

Thanks everyone- some great reading and am still trying to process it all.

I have two kids on IEPs so you would think that I would be knowledgeable on this- but I am clueless. Both just speech delays so it is always very quick and straight forward and I have never worried about anything extra- our private insurance covers outside help for speech so anything the school lacks on we just have picked up there. But the insurance so far doesn't seem like they will cover anything related to this except for the testing we just had done. (that's why we went the psychological route- that is covered were a nuro or psychiatrist was not- at least not for just educational testing)

Two reasons that I am worried about the outcome of the meeting:
1st (and silliest)- the whole Dr. Google comparison. Five minutes of searching and I have dx'd my whole family with a rare and contagious form of cancer. Basically- I can not find many positive IEP stories- only negative ones. So even though I know this is silly- it still weighs on my mind and hard to shake of those stories.
2nd- this time 2 years ago (almost to the day) we had just moved to this area and ask for an IEP meeting to discuss previous testing we had done the year prior(he was found to have a "possible LD" but to young to determine. The suggestion at that time was to have DS tested more thoroughly when he was older (the age he was 2 years ago) The school psychologist had the test in her hands less than 5 mins when she decided that the test was not correct and she saw no reason that DS (who had been at that school for less than 2 weeks- so no way that she knew him)needed anymore testing. We decided to listen and wait and now really regret it.

The report we just got has several suggestions to include:
at least 45 mins 5x a week orton-gillingham_based program
(he goes in depth about this and why the fidelity of this program is critical)

And then much of what you would expect--- extra time, seat placement, books on CD, allow recording options,reduce workload, oral testing if written test does not appear to meet knowledge base....

Thanks again everyone

Oh yeah- quick question.

The whole working memory thing confuses me.
DS was in the 2nd percentile on the working memory index!!!! Even though on the surface- what I read about it seems accurate- him being that low doesn't seem to match up with what I see in him (distractable and forgets direction easily- but not to the 2% level!)
The sub test were- Digit span- 7 Letter-number seq- 2 and (arithmetic)- 15

Hoping someone can shed light on this a bit.

One of my sons is highly gifted and has dyslexia. We had him privately tested when he was in 2nd grade because the school kept dragging its feet-- I'd known for 2 years that something was going on and I kept being told reading would "click" in the next few months, which never happened, of course.

I think it's great that your son qualifies for an IEP. Mine never did, but he has an excellent 504. We also had to pay for a private tutor for 2 1/2 years. (He's 9 in 4th grade.)

5x week with an o-g based program sounds excellent to me. Wilson and O-G are pretty much the gold standard in dyslexia remediation and you're lucky the school will provide it. Just make sure the instructor is actually trained in the program. If not, that's a violation of IDEA. Make sure the school sets measurable goals for his progress, i.e., "he'll be through 2 chapters in 6 weeks, reading at DRA xxx."

You'll also need to keep track of whether your child's IEP is actually being followed. This has been a constant battle for us, as my son doesn't seem like he needs the accomodations on his 504, but he does. He's supposed to be doing all his writing work on the computer, but his teacher never makes it available, which, again, is a violation of IDEA.

I had to fight for his gifted services, too. They did "classify" him as gifted 2 years ago, but it was only this year that he finally gets the pull-outs (which I actually think are pretty worthless.) He also now qualifies for the district's HGT program, but we don't think it's the appropriate setting for him, so we aren't going to use that option until middle school.

But here's the good news, 3 years after diagnosis, he's 1.5 grade levels ahead in reading and writing! That's not up to the potential of his IQ, but we're thrilled with his progress and expect him to do even better in middle school. The "scaffolding" his 504 gives him has actually worked to help him build up his skills and improve.

My advice is to be very proactive, educate yourself as much as possible about what's available for your son, use an advocate if necessary (we brought an outside expert in dyslexia) and ensure that his IEP is being followed. Also, bring donuts to every school meeting.

Thanks so much for the reply- but want to clarify--- we have just asked for the IEP meeting (he is on an IEP for speech only right now)

The testing done was through private testing (like your story above- the school kept dragging there feet--- he will get it,, look he already improved a little.......).

Those suggestion are what the private reports suggest- not what the school has agreed to. I do not even know yet if our school has an orton-gillingham_based program.

Glad to hear the good news about the outcome- gives me something to look forward to. My DS actually enjoys reading a little bit (if it is comic books or the like) so there is hope.

Thanks again

Oh, I didn't realize that (obviously)!

In that case, if your school offers any remediation (you don't say whether or how far behind your son is?), make sure the remediation is a research-based program taught by a trained professional. That is a requirement of IDEA, but I think schools need to be reminded of that fact. My son's school wouldn't provide remediation (he wasn't far enough behind), which is why we went with a private tutor who used Wilson. Our school actually laughed at the suggestion of 5x week, which is what our tester recommended as well. The best we could do was a 504, which is supposedly excellent (not that its followed).

I suggest going to Wrightslaw.com and read as much as you can about what the school is required to do for your son. Dyslexia is mentioned under IDEA as a "specific learning disability," so it should be covered, but it must significantly impair your son in order for the school to give him an IEP to cover it. Our school district seems to want to fight a dyslexia diagnosis, and I wasn't willing to wait for evaluations, so we went ahead and got a tutor within 6 weeks of diagnosis. They would have never fully given him what he needed in terms of private instruction anyway, so that was the right choice for him, even though it was extremely expensive.

Our meetings were never negative-- and I was able to site the law (thanks to Wrightlaw) to keep things progressing. Still, we didn't get what I thought my son needed in the meetings. It's much easier for the school to say yes to accommodations (which are free) than remediation (which actually costs the school something).

Great that your son likes reading! My son still says he doesn't. Do you know about "high interest" books? They're written for your son's age group, but at a slightly lower reading level. Also, we had great success getting my son to read after we bought him a kindle. It's much easier for him to read when he can increase the font size-- and the kindle allowed him to access books (at a larger font size) that he hadn't been interested in reading before. Plus, many books are text-to-speech enabled, so if he's tired, he just turns on the kindle speech option and listens to the book.

One final note-- my son has dyslexia without ADD. I know the two are often co-morbid, but it's not always the case. If you feel your son doesn't have it, know that it's possible he doesn't.

I think it might be helpful to you to try to find out if there is a local parents' advocacy group - even if you don't feel you need their help going into your IEP meeting, they may be able to let you know quickly (over the phone) where the resources are and what resources are available in your district. In our district, the reading programs aren't found in every school, and sometimes even the school staff present at team meetings either aren't aware of what's available or won't suggest it for whatever reason, so unless you know it exists you might get a non-answer when you ask it even though the program is there and your child would qualify - does that make sense?

polarbear

Did your child have an audiology exam as part of the workup for dyslexia? The big gap between the two subtests that rely heavily on listening and the one that does not is kind of a red flag for me.

My DS has had hearing test (many- full booth test) due to his speech delay but nothing else. The results are always fine.
It was recommended at one time that he be tested for audio processing issues- but the insurance would not cover it and we let it fall through the cracks. This was one thing we had ask the school about 2 years ago and they did the- 'lets wait and see' approach. We are in a better financial situation now (so can afford out of pocket if need be) and will look into this a bit more and bring it up to the school again.

We have a meeting set with the 'Team' on Tuesday. Do not have much info- except the said the local screening team will look over the testing he had done and determine if more needs to take place. I am trying to get together all the things I can. Any suggestions on what to expect or ideas of things I should bring in would be appreciated. I am really not sure what this meeting is about (Husband took the call)- I assume it is just -are we accepting of the test they want to run/not run kind of thing.

Thanks Again

I've had two of three of my kids on IEP - the older son as gifted, the younger originally for speech and has mushroomed from there.

The younger (12 now) started with speech delay that led to the discovery of dyslexia and then testing by a neuropsych where he was diagnosed as dysgraphic and screened and excluded for ADHD. Do know that while some kids (my oldest being one of them) are gifted with ADHD, gifted kids with an exceptionality can appear as if they have ADHD when, in fact, they do not. Having the documentation to prove my son didn't have ADHD has been used more than once with a teacher who wanted a easy pill-popping fix to deal with my son's dreamy inattentiveness, disorganization, or quirks.

Our IEPs have been for the most part very successful. I've found that through the years most of the teachers were my son's biggest advocates, asking for accommodations they thought would make a difference in their ability to really pull out of him what they could see inside and would give him successes they knew he needed. If you have even one teacher who sees the gift despite the disability, recruit them to help you advocate for the best possible conditions for your child. They "inside" the system and, as such, often have sway that we as parents do not.

It hasn't been all rosy, and I have had teachers, especially this year, openly defy and passive-aggressively ignore parts of my son's IEP. But for the most part, the teachers have had the same goal that I have to help my son be as successful as possible.

Good luck with this part of the journey!