I just posted in another section that my DD's assessment was complete. It was done at 4 years 10 months. I am not getting full details until later this week.

The issues that compelled me to have her evaluated are that she had some ADHDish traits. So far the evaluator has told me that she did not diagnose her with anything, but that she is clearly gifted. She did note that she had some ADHD like traits and that we can keep a watch on things.

That sounds good on the surface, but how do I deal with the hurricane? Some days are better, but today was a major energy storm...

My DD often cannot stop talking, often with accents or strange voices, singing, often like a Broadway show tune, loves loud sounds for the sake of sound, is always moving, grabbing, doing sudden movements, etc. ALL DAY LONG. She NEVER stops. She is cranked to HIGH all the time. She also interrupts a lot and seems to need a ton of attention. She also insists on interacting with me a good portion of the day and cannot stop speaking to the point that my head will pound. I feel bad that I cannot handle this level of intensity that many hours, but I have my limits. If I ask her to back off or go in her room and busy herself so I can rest my head, she cannot seem to do it.

She is a sweet, creative, funny child with many good points, but can be overwhelming at times. People on here have given me great advice in the past about finding outside help, but I haven't found anyone. We also have not found a decent academic program so for now, I'd like ideas on how to live better together or at least hear from someone who has been in a similar situation.

Is anyone else experiencing this sort of thing with their child or have you in the past and if so, what helped???????

She goes to OT for sensory seeking, but I don't feel we are making that much progress in slowing down and quieting at various points in the day.

I think that many of the moms here have slowly taught their children to be more self-entertaining. I flunked this area of life and just hooked up the learning computer games when I couldn't take it - so that's one option.

Does she take Martial Arts? I think that might be a great way to burn up energy and learn self mastery. Yoga, Ti Chi and Meditation (for you or for her) both come to mind.

Is she nimble fingered enough to learn to crochet? Or even make potholders or beeswax figures? Clay?

I'm still hoping you'll find a bright highschooler to be a mentor for her.

It's hard to find 'service projects' for preschoolers, but if there are people who need cheering up, having a service project where she makes pictures or writes letters might give her an avenue to make a contribution...

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Hi Grinity,

Thanks for the chuckle. Maybe I need to get her hooked on computer games ;-)

We haven't tried martial arts, but she has done a little bit of yoga and likes it. I could use some meditation / yoga myself.

Your service project idea was interesting. I hadn't thought of that. She could write letters and make cards!

I mostly just needed to post something after a day where she was a tornado in pigtails.

Too Funny - there's my chuckle for the day!
Martial arts is great because they don't care how old the child is and because they develop focus and self control. They might even have some meditation classes at the local studio. I've seen some very serious little peanuts out on the floor and I'm always very thrilled.

Well, that's exactly how my FOUR kids act! Imagine them all singing/humming/talking at once! I've found the key to having them act 'normal' is to tire them out. They're all in sports (swimming, basketball, baseball, soccer), but when there's no sport or they're more hyped than usual, I have them run around in circles for a while. It usually calms them down enough to focus for a while. Also, chewing gum seems to help a lot. I read an article somewhere about a study with high school kids, how it helped them concentrate. Now, I distribute sugarless gum along with school books and pencils (we homeschool). The gum has the double effect of helping them focus and keeping them quiet. Meditation helped me a lot with my oldest, but now I can't get the four of them to relax at the same time. You may be able to get your daughter to, though. I hope some of these ideas help you.

I feel for you Twinkle Toes. My only child is a constant hummer/talker/mover. Books on tape have been suggested before on this forum. That might help for a bit? Good luck!

That's my eldest to a T. Diet helps us enormously, it's a lot of work, but less work than she is off the diet :-). She's still very full on but it's somehow more manageable, so the effort of the diet is SO worth it. I am on my phone and can't post a link easily, so google RPAH elimination diet and / or sue dengate.

I found keeping her busy with lots of play dates and out door time was key at that age. Before she was in school we had a major outing every morning (zoo, museum, swimming, aquarium all happened every week) and then errands and play ground or play dates every afternoon.

Twinkle Toes

My DS10 has been like this his whole life. He is actually now on ADHD meds but we did not go that route until he was actually having peer issues last year due to his intensity.

I will say that a LOT of physical activity works great also but DS is more of a computer/video game kind of guy.

My son was like that at 4 1/2 to around 8. At 4 1/2 I decided to enroll him in a musical theater class and his first musical was Babes in Arms. It was a little embarrassing to hear him singing "That's why the lady is a tramp" while waiting to pay for our groceries. He was a happy kid and the happier he was the more he sang.

He never went to daycare or preschool. He was with me all day long, but I enjoyed it most of the time although I did get tired sometimes, but the tiredness was nothing like I am dealing with now. I didn't realize how good I had it.

In kindergarten he sang in the bathroom and had to be reminded to be quiet because people could hear him outside. He just sang without thinking. I have noticed several other young kids in the musical theater group doing the same thing and it always makes me smile when I remember those days. I miss them. My son is almost 13 now.

I recently found a video of my son at almost 5 when he was rehearsing with the rest of his group and he was constantly bouncing around and fidgeting like he couldn't stand still and I knew it had to be before we discovered his problem with Red Dye #40. He also had some sensory issues but no real behavioral problems. At seven a doctor said some people might think he has ADHD but he doesn't.

At home my son used to follow me to the bathroom and talk to me outside the door. He just loved to talk. When my husband was at work I was the only one for him to talk to.

We found that computer games and video games were the only things that would keep him busy and give me a little bit of time to do other things, for a little while anyway, but when he saw me he always had to tell me what he had been doing on the games and what he had learned and how nice it would be if I would play with him, etc.

My son is so different now and all it took was getting older. He is so calm and seems so mature. People guess that he is older than he is. New people in his musical theater group and at his homeschool co-op describe him as shy and he is now, especially around girls.

His creativity shows up more in his writing now where he uses his wit and humor. He still sings and acts and gets lead roles. He liked to do different accents when he was younger and is very good at doing them now. He can do some really good imitations now.

I did not have the level of intensity with either of my children that you are describing, but I thought I'd share just a little, anyway.

There were times when it seemed like dd's "attention cup" would never be full. That she always wanted more, and it would always be more than I could give her. It was exhausting, even anticipating the amount of energy it was going to take. Honestly, I found myself shrinking away. On the phone, or on the computer or talking to a friend just to get away for a bit. And I think that's normal. But I also found that the days where I would fight that tendency were the days that went better. If I could match her intensity level for a bit... "let's read this story. No, wait, first let's bake something so we can read while the cake is cooking!" If I could maintain the attention and intensity for an extended amount of time, then when it was time for "me time" she would happily comply. It's as if I had to overfill that attention cup before it was "enough".

I never heard of a hyp0tonic kid who was really fidgety and bouncy. Typically floppy is the total opposite of bouncy.

Lately, DD has been having fun do the whole different accents thing too. Just yesterday she made each one of her fingers talk to each other in a different accent. We've definitely entered the non-stop talking phase too and incidentally it seems to get worse around bed time. She seems to feel the MOST need to talk if DH and I are trying to discuss something... ahh! Oh, and add to that that now she thinks it'S a good idea to rearrange our furniture (obviously, the smaller pieces since she can't exactly move the couch by herself! :D).

Just commiserating with you, no real suggestions. We TRY to do a lot of outdoor time but DD wants to just swing the entire time at the playground instead of running around getting out her energy. Add to that that she has an ear infection, which means no swimming at the moment, one of the best ways to get rid of all that pent up energy!

We've always wanted to do a martial art with her (more for safety reasons than anything else)... when can you start with that?

Thanks! Wow, that sounds great with all those safety lessons, definitely something we'd be interested in. We have a Karate school literally right next door to us so I might ask there when they start (I'm not sure if it's for kids, though...). There's also one associated with DD's school but I think I recall them start at age 5.

Hi for some reason I do not have all the posts to this section...so hopefully this is not too redundant. My now dd13 was full of energy. We did karate. One of the things we were taught in karate was to quiet the energy, focus and then let the energy "explode" into moves. It was years of training in focusing and directing the energy. I do not think we could have done Yoga or Tai Chi as they were to "slow" and we needed the speed of Karate. (I am also very high energy which made it worse in some ways as we would bounce off of each other, hence I needed training as well!) When my dd was 4 she could hike four miles up hill and we did a lot of that. I think being outside made all that energy dissipate into thin air, whereas being inside made it bounce off the walls.

passthepotatoes,

My son has low tone as part of his issues, and he could never stay still. He's still fidgety. And he talks, hums and sings almost constantly, even if no one else is listening - and he's 14. His OT explained some the constant motion as being partly a retained reflex issue (movements constantly being reflexively triggered) and as attempts to maintain proprioceptive input, so he would know here his body was in space. The constant movement improved somewhat as a consequence of the reflex integration techniques she used with him, and what remains gets better when we do deep pressure and massage a few times a day for him. Nothing but reading a sufficiently absorbing book or playing video games that are at the limit of his capacity will make him quiet, though.

Aculady - I think that gets to the problem with using the terms low tone or hypotonia - they are way too vague and can be used to describe kids with minor impairments and kids who are lucky to ever learn to walk. Lots of OTs seem to use that pretty freely to describe kids with a very minor degree of lack of strength. I'm thinking more of kids who are actually really floppy - kids like Lori's son who have trouble with even walking into an event from the parking lot. It is hard to have the energy to be bouncy when you are totally floppy.

Thanks for the insight, Hereandnow. I used to be right there with her connecting and meeting her intensity for a good portion of the day but I also have a three year old who is very demanding and active and some hormonal issues so I have less to give. Nonetheless, I thought about what you said yesterday and tried to truly be there when I was interacting. I am going to do that today as well, though it does seem it is never enough. I think finding some friends for her to play with would solve so many things. Perhaps if I can find an engaging program for her to be involved with that would also direct her energy. Right now she is just home full time with me, no classes, is very hard to motivate to go outside and play (doesn't like bugs, the sun, etc.) and we don't have any kids nearby. Yesterday was nice (which has been rare here. It has been raining and cold) and so I got her out a good portion of the day. Thanks everyone for suggestions, and also empathy.

One of the hardest parts for me is that I can't find quiet time to read, write, reflect, surf the Internet etc. to the extent I'd like. I need those quiet times to rejuevenate. She seems not to require any quiet, introverted moments and I have my own sensory issues. I don't like loud noises, bright lights, commotion, and yet I gave birth two two loud, active, sensory seekers! She also crashes into me hard, leans hard, and elbows me etc. I have to be on guard LOL

She wakes at 5 am and doesn't nap, then can be up until 8:30 at night and by that time, I am exhausted! I have done things to tweak her sleeping, but have accepted she will always wake up early and be on fire before the rest of us have come to full consciousness. Acceptance is the name of the game in some ways. Yesterday I decided that the road to happiness for me was to let go of doing the things I wanted to do for myself: working in the yard, reading. When I try to do them, I get frustrated because she is so disruptive. If I don't try to do them, then there is less of a battle. Some day when she is in school or more independent, I guess I will read, write, and garden...

oh, to all those who mentioned video games, do you have any recommendations?

Hi TwinkleToes: I am just nodding reading your post; you and I are a bit alike I think. Some of it is the introverted parent (who needs to recharge alone) parenting a highly extroverted child or two (who recharge by interacting with other people) Of course the problem is that the kids are recharging at the same time they are draining you! I also imagine that the giftedness magnifies all this.

You are so right to be thinking about bringing other people/children into the mix. Even story time at the library is a start (and while the librarian is reading, there are all those nice, quiet grown up books lining the walls for you). Would an activity like this suit her?

Will she go to Kindergarten in the fall? Even if it is not a great academic fit, the social piece could be priceless.

My other challenge when my kids were this age was I wanted to be friends with other parents, but I didn't really have the "social energy" to initiate the friendships. Everything got much easier once I had a child in school and they started to find their friends, which naturally led to friendships with their parents for me.

In the meantime hang in there and be sure to get as much sleep as you can. My downfall was always trying to "recharge" after the kids went to bed...by staying up late. It didn't work & the next day I'd be exhausted.

That sure sounds familiar - it is a bad cycle but so easy to do.

Twinkletoes - I am agreeing more people would be good. Any possibility you have a nice energetic 10-12 year old in the neighborhood who might want to be a "mother's helper" afterschool and this summer. It likely wouldn't cost as much as babysitting and your daughter might enjoy having a devoted playmate.

Hi Twinkletoes.
I have a super,high energy kiddo too (no ADHD).
These are things that have worked for us:
#1. a mini,one-person trampoline. It is a fixture in our family room and is used throughout the day (we are on our third!). This is a serious lifesaver.

- Schedule your day so that your daughter knows that at x time(s) she will need to occupy herself in her room or other quiet space. This should not be seen as a punishment of course and could be worded as quiet playtime or "me time" (meaning her). Even if her "me time" is in the kitchen teach her that she needs to occupy herself for an appropriate time frame (based on age). I would actually do this twice a day. Over time it will help and it will also give her skills she actually needs . It is not realistic to allow a child to talk all day, non-stop,and interrupt (even when it is their nature). These "me times" can be short, but you will see an improvement and her ability to occupy herself will increase.
- When my son wanted toys/video games that involved construction or reading instructions to set up I would tell him that if I purchased it he had to set it up himself or teach it to himself. I have never set up a video game etc. and he occupied himself figuring things out. I started this when he was 5 (please note that I did set boundaries/rules especially when it involved electricity).
Hope this helps- bet the trampoline would be a winner : )

My son is nine, and he is also always talking/humming.. At 4, he had quiet time between 1 and 2 when his brother was napping. I don't remember how we convinced him to stay quiet - maybe used a chart.. Now, our saving grace is a drum set! Whenever he is fidgety he will either play/fight with his brother :), or play his drums. We have pads to make them quieter.. Maybe a piano (keyboard with volume control) or acoustic guitar would work, too..

E Mama! Where were you 12 years ago! I really needed to hear this from someone who wasn't judging me, or acting like it was an easy thing to do, or who really understood how much it was my DS's nature.

BTW - I am also constantly humming (when I'm not posting here - LOL!) during the workday. People smile and say that they know I'm coming. It is a little like echo location in Bats for me. Plus it gets me in that 'get up and get it done' mood even when I don't feel like it. Yeah, I bring in a lot of baked goods, 'cause I'm so grateful for the IRL people who interact with me all day long.

Wink,
Grinity

It felt incredibly selfish and ogre-like to do that to my DD when she was little-- but honestly, my sanity couldn't take what she was capable of dishing out without those little breaks in the noise.

So I think I did the right thing for us both-- even if it felt like a desperate survival strategy at the time.

Books. DD loved to spend quiet time with BOOKS. She also had a leap pad and headphones at about 2yo, and that was a real life-saver, too.

Grinity,
I am smiling. I hear you : ). I had an experience with a wise pre-school teacher who pointed this out to me very bluntly. We were having a meeting and my kiddo kept interrupting and she flat out told me, "You need to put an end to this now." I was a little surprised. Shouldn't four year olds interrupt? Well yeah, but the adult needs to let them know it is not okay. So, I did and we have a lot less interrupting- 4 years later!

Regarding HowlerKarma's comments: I agree we feel guilty doing it ,but don't we look back and realize that there was wisdom in these choices? If our kids are driving us crazy and we have to set a limit well then we are probably doing the right thing, even if our kiddo's nature wants something else.

So, here is a cheer for all the mamas of high energy kids who set limits for their own sanity and for their kids' well being (said with love).

I couldn't agree more. Whenever I felt that stressed by the need for constant interaction, I'd imagine that no friend, boyfriend/girlfriend, spouse, or employer would be able to deal with endless need for interaction and stimulation if I couldn't! If I found the level of necessary interaction intolerable, imagine what someone who wasn't required, as part of a family, to deal with my child? These were opportunities, for me, to teach that people need space. And respect for privacy. And not everything one thinks needs to be said. And there are limits to the closeness one can have, even with one's family and most cherished loved ones. And there are fabulous things to be discovered in reading quietly, playing alone, imagination within one's own head, etc. I taught my child basic meditation as a toddler. I taught self-entertainment, and activities that could be done independently. It's ok to teach a child that everyone else has desires and needs too. I even think it's seriously beneficial to the child's later social and personal development.

Wow, OT's are diagnosing kids with low tone on the basis of a lack of strength? That's really odd, and very troubling.

Poor muscle tone and poor muscle strength are completely separate issues, even though there are certainly conditions where both are present. Tone relates more to the ability to sustain muscle contraction appropriately, to resist passive stretching to an appropriate degree, and to rapidly respond to proprioceptive input regarding changes in muscle length so that muscular co-contraction can be modulated appropriately for proper movement and postural control. Strength relates more to the degree of maximum contraction or force that can be generated by a given muscle.

You can be very strong but with muscles that fatigue quickly during activity, and that fail to contract in response to passive stretching, and that do not react quickly and smoothly to modulate movement from having a nervous system that fails to signal the muscles to respond appropriately to sensory input. You can also lack strength but have perfectly normal or even excessive tone.

Treatment strategies for hypotonia with muscular weakness, which include techniques and exercises aimed at increasing muscle strength in addition to regulating the responsiveness of the muscles, differ significantly from those for hypotonia without accompanying muscular weakness, which primarily target trying to improve the responsiveness of the nervous system to proprioceptive inputs. Strategies for muscle weakness without hypotonia are another animal entirely.

I agree. My son has hypotonia, and his OT and neurologist both suggested that he build up muscle strength, to help compensate for his low tone. Strength and tone are not the same thing.

Aculady -- what type of therapies can be used to improve muscle tone? Most of the OT I have done with my son is for improving motor skills and co-ordination. I didn't think there was much to be done to improve hypotonia itself, but would love to hear otherwise.

Also, about fidgeting, my low-tone son does wiggle around alot, and I see it as related to the hypotonia. He is often readjusting his posture, leaning on things, and pushing his feet against walls, etc. He also talks alot, but that's a different story!!

Opps, the above was a quote from Kaibab -sorry I did that wrong.

Yes! I think we can call this "home training". Based on my daily experience many people don't get home training, lol.
More boundary training would be nice.- Okay I am probably getting off topic. I appreciate hearing the experiences.

Verona,

Activities that help children improve proprioceptive processing and sensory integration can help with some forms of low tone.

Here is a link that has some good activities that help improve proprioceptive processing for younger children. The proprioception activities are about halfway down the page.

Dynamic movement orthoses, Therasuits, Kinesio tape, and other techniques for increasing proprioceptive input can be used over time to help improve low tone.

Generally, repetitive stimulation that helps increase the level of proprioceptive input can help train the brain to perceive and respond to small changes in muscle length and eventually help decrease the degree of the low tone, if it is due to a processing problem.

HTH

I believe you misunderstood my post Aculady. I have a teenager with hyptonia and with a lifetime in OT and PT we understand the difference between strength and tone. What I was saying is that in my experience a very large percentage of kids with fairly mild motor delays are said by OTs to have hypotonia. I'd say probably 90% of people I've met who has a kid in OT or PT for any motor delays is told the kid has low tone. They may well have a very minor degree of low tone so that may be accurate or maybe it is inaccurate but it is very widespread. At any rate, it is of course a totally different situation from children who have more severe hypotonia and may be unable to learn to walk or be years behind in motor skills. Unfortunately many kids even with very significant challenges will not be able to get a more precise diagnosis than the rather vague descriptor of hypotonia.

So, that makes it tricky when we are talking about hypotonia are we talking a kid with fairly mild problems who may struggle a bit and benefit from OT or are we talking about a totally floppy kid. For the totally floppy crowd it is hard to imagine a lot of fidgeting.

For the poster who asked about treatments, improving strength has been very helpful to our child. It is a long slow process that requires a commitment. The most important thing here has been smaller but more frequent doses OT and PT assigned exercises with ongoing reassessment of the exercise plan. Unfortunately gains that take a long time to happen can be lost if you don't stick with it. The main benefits we've seen from improved strength are overall less fatigue and less difficulty with sitting and standing - so less flopping over and resting the head on the desk, etc. Activities with patterned movements (horseback riding, swimming, dance) were also helpful in part as a bit of a buffer against negative feelings from physical challenges.

There's some great advice on this thread!

I want to add something I read from a syndicated family psychologist - he recommends children's bedtimes be when *parents* are ready to stop parenting. He has a completely different attitude about interacting with your child - his mother booted him out the door and told him a kid's life is entertaining themselves (something like that) - and felt no concern about his self-esteem!

My older son has a good friend who's always been this energetic, and last summer he worked helping with tree thinning. His boss said he did the work of 2 grown men consistently. Now how adaptive is that???

I really, really like what the psychologist had to say about bed times! That makes sense : )

This is from a hummer/singer, as well as mother of a hummer. They say his are tics, mine is just an inner tune.
Have you thought about using a physio ball, those big exercise ball. Leave it slightly underfilled so that it takes energy to keep balanced on it. It will build core strength but also provides an non irrataining way for energy to be released. I have two in my classroom. You can see kids just bopping along as they work. It provides another stimulus. She is so young that she would use the small one. When she sits her legs should make a 90 degree angle for the correct size.

Thanks Aculady. I can't get your link to work though -- could you post it again? And thanks to PassthePotatos for the input about exercises for hypotonia as well. We haven't done much for proprioceptive input, except he was wearing a weighted glove for writing for a while, so maybe I should look into this more.

My DS (almost 7) has had issues with hypotonia, balance and co-ordination since he was a baby. He now has a dx of motor dyspraxia , into which they bundle all these issues. They consider his hypotonia to be mild to moderate. We have looked into other possible causes of the low tone, since many of the professionals we saw didn't see him as a "classic" dysrpraxic and thought there might be something else going on. So far, nothing has shown up. He is making good progress with increasing his endurance and amazingly learned how to ride a two wheel bike this spring (yay!).

The link should be fixed now. Congratulations to your DS on learning to ride the bike! My son learned at 11, and loves it.