I joined this forum a few years ago, when my husband and I began to notice our son was very different than other kids his age. (here is my original introduction)We decided long ago that he is a very bright little boy and he would always be that way. He is now 4 � years old and we are moving forward on the 2E path. Recently we went through the process of having him evaluated by the school district and have just found out that he is on the autism spectrum.

We walked kind of a strange path to get to the evaluation. He went in for his kindergarten screening last winter and failed the vision portion of the testing. We went back for a re-test and he again failed, however, the tester did not believe that he was having normal sight problems, but was more likely experiencing visual processing issues. From there we went to a pediatric ophthalmologist, as recommended by the screening office, for further testing.

The ophthalmologist we were referred to does a lot of work with kids that have sensory issues as well as working with gifted children and autistic children. She completed her normal vision testing for our son and found that he had astigmatism and a small prescription, but advised that glasses would be more of a pain at his age and small prescription level than a help. She also recommended that, from her observations, she thought is would be good for DS to see an occupational therapist because he seemed to have a very high energy level, a lot of sensory sensitivities as well as a need to engage is sensory seeking behaviors. (we have always known this, but just thought it was more of a gifted "quirk")

He had just recently started in the school readiness preschool offered by our school district, so I thought a good first step would be to talk to his teacher about her observations. She agreed that it would be a good idea to have DS evaluated by the school district. Every person on the evaluation team agreed that it was a tough diagnosis to make for him. He is so bright and extroverted, that a lot of the normal red flags that make diagnosing aspbergers didn't jump out with him. However, after several interviews, observations in the classroom and out of the classroom and many different people giving input, they concluded that he is in fact on the spectrum.

His main "trouble areas" seem to be his social appropriateness and sensory. We had our first IEP meeting last week and we are waiting on the document to be mailed to us for review. I feel like it is going to be very important to make sure they addressed his need for intellectual stimulation (not just what is offered in 4 year old preschool) next year as well as their techniques for dealing with his high energy, sensory seeking needs. Our IEP meeting seemed to be very focused on how they are going to help him learn coping mechanism for his sensory needs and teaching him how to interact more appropriately with his peers. I tried to stress that when he is not stimulated enough physically AND/OR intellectually his autistic behaviors seemed to be intensified.

We are very grateful to have found this out now, so we can start moving forward and get him the help he needs so he can succeed in school. However, this is all so new and it is coming at me all so quickly that I am feeling very overwhelmed with what I need to be doing to assure his success with his IEP next year.

I was not sure where to post this so I put it in the general discussion forum too, but I am wondering, how do you address the intellectual needs when people are so focused on the physical needs? What are your suggestions, if any, for including this in his IEP? Any suggestions or feedback are welcome.

Is he also identified as gifted by your school?

We did not get any items into DSs IEP for intellectual needs until he was officially designated as gifted this year in 1st grade. Our DS has had an IEP for ASD since age 3, but any academic differentiation was not put into his IEP until he was 7...even though teachers across the board (regular ed, special ed, speech, OT, ABA) commented regularly on how smart he was and that they could not challenge him academically.

We are changing schools next year to a school for the gifted in order to specifically focus on his intellectual needs primarily, and the physical ASD-related needs secondarily. It is a very hard balance.

Looking back, I wished I had pushed more for academic differentiation...but I was so caught up in ASD that I didn't. I even thought, "Good thing he is smart, he will only have to worry about social stuff and not worry about school work." That was before I realized that his passion is school work!!!

Nan

He is not identified as gifted by the school district right now. However, I know that on days when he does not get a lot of intellectual stimulation his sensory seeking behaviors in particular really flair up, for lack of a better term.

We talked, in his IEP meeting, about having him do more physical activities when necessary (he is a squirmer and a toucher - he touches EVERYTHING), but I am worried they didn't grasp the importance of his need for intellectual stimulation in addition to the physical.

I have found, at home, that there are times when he is being very difficult that if I take out his human body book or strike up a conversation about some worldly topic, better suited for an adult than a 4 year old, those behaviors will be minimized.

For example, last weekend he was having a particularly difficult time later in the evening (which is typically his worst time of the day)and our normal evening routine was not cutting it. I suggested an extra bike ride, but he was very unenthusiastic. After I got his brother to sleep, I took out his human body book (usually reserved only for daytime) and we opened up to the page about the human brain. We were talking about neurons and how they affect the 5 senses. Within minutes, he went from bouncing around, not listening to anything I said and totally in his own little world to calm and totally engaged.

I am worried that there are going to be times when they think he needs the physical and what he really needs is the intellectual. He has a very keen awareness of how his body is feeling and will tell you when he "has too much energy inside." I know this is going to be a learning experience for all involved in the process, but I just want to start out with the best possible plan.

What did you do to have your son recognized as gifted by the school?

We did what you are doing with increasing physical activities...he went to the "engine room" every morning before school started; had activity breaks during the day to do "heavy work" like pushing against the wall and crab walks; and he has fidgits at his desk since he has to touch something while he is listening to the teacher. He also has a squishy seat cushion on his chair and squishy foot pedals for his feet.

As for the gifted ID, he had his initial evaluation prior to entering public school and then every 3 years there is a mandatory re-evaluation which includes IQ tests. It was after receiving the results of this second set of tests, that we requested the school to complete the process of gifted identification; which in our school system includes the IQ tests and achievement tests, plus teacher evaluation and grades. Once he was id'd, they put specific clauses in his IEP requiring the teacher to get more detailed answers from him and a couple other specifics. On June 9th, we are getting a brand new IEP for the new gifted school, and I can PM the exact items we will put in it regarding academics if you'd like!

My DS does the same thing yours does in regards to books...they calm him right down. He has a favorite book in his backpack (the teacher requested it) to read if he feels like he needs that instead of a physical activity. DS would not have been able to know what he needed at age 4, though...you are lucky your son can tell what he needs.

Nan

We are writing in a lot of "heavy" work into his IEP. They will use weighted blankets, squeeze vests, heavy touch, heavy lifting, etc. I am really pleased with the things they were discussing in our IEP regarding physical, although I am going to have to look into the squishy seat and pedals, he might really like that.

If you are able to PM, that would be so great. I am a fish out of water right now, and need all the help I can get!

Throughout the evaluation and IEP process the members of our evaluation/SPED team just kept saying how insightful he is and how impressed they were with his ability to vocalize his feelings. He often times tells me that he "tries to tell his brain to tell his body what to do, but it doesn't listen" (did I mention he is REALLY impulsive) It makes me so sad to know he loses control of his body. Some days, I feel like it would be easier for him if he were not so in touch.

Haha!! My son says the same thing...talks about his brain as being apart from his body. It was ok when he was younger, but he's not allowed to use that "as an excuse" now...although I am sure it is an accurate description of what is going on with his body. His brain is not in control of his body at times...and that's that! Therapists have utilized his ability to describe what is happening to help him develop impulse control by saying something like, "DS, grab your brain before it completely leaves your head so that it maintains control of your body." Nan

Hi Mamabird,
Welcome back!

If you haven't read this book you might enjoy it.


I am curious about if a Developmental Pediatrician was part of the team that 'diagnosed' your son. I think that the activities they are offering are 'all good' but I would leave a corner of my mind open to the idea that the diagnosis is perhaps not quite accurate until diagnosed by a professional that is really well versed in AS and Giftedness. Particularly if you are dealing with one of the unusual LOGs (levels of giftedness.)

For more on this idea, see:

My son benefited greatly from OT for Sensory Issues, but I do believe that the issues was gifted OverExcitabilities. Of course we will never know.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Grinity is right that an evaluation by school personnel should be supplemented by a private evaluation. Preferably by a developmental pediatrician or psychologist with LOTS of experience with the whole autism spectrum, including the gifted end.

What the school does for your child should be supplemented at home by teaching strategies you can learn to use to curb the impulsiveness and teach good social behavior. It's great that they are offering the IEP; but school is only a small piece of teaching a child on the spectrum.

DeeDee

Thank you for the book recommendations!

This is all VERY new, like we just got our school diagnosis (which I realize is not an "actual" diagnosis) about a week and a half ago. I talked to DS pediatrician today and she is referring us out to start the process of getting a medical diagnosis. I am concerned about finding the right person, who like you said, is well versed in AS and giftedness.

We are just starting down this road. I decided a few years ago when his giftedness started to really show through, that I was going to take a sit-back-and-relax type approach for a while and just enjoy and soak up all those toddler and preschool moments. Now with this new information, I feel it is time to jump in the drivers seat and start moving forward.

I am open to any and all suggestions, recommendations and experiences.

Hi Mamabird: I just want to add my support. I am the mother to a 4.5 year old 2e little girl. As she approaches school age, we very much want her giftedness to be as recognized as her ASD (she has PDD-NOS on the autism spectrum). Fortunately, we think we've found an elementary school that will cater to both "parts" of her developmental profile, but it sure took some sleuthing! We are lucky to have the support of a fantastic early intervention center, where DD has been receiving her behavioral and social group therapy, that is staffed with some exceptional psychologists who understand 2e kids.

I echo DeeDee's suggestion re having your son thoroughly assessed by a professional with experience in both ASD and giftedness. My vote would be with a good psychologist. May I ask where you are located?

All the best in getting whatever support and understanding that your son needs (and deserves!) to reach his full potential.

Kristen

Thanks, Kristen. We are located in suburbs of Minneapolis, Minnesota. I was doing some research last night to find someone that is well versed in both areas, but to be honest, I am getting a bit overwhelmed.

I am going to be honest when I say that this is really hitting me hard and I am having a difficult time emotionally. I work myself up to the point of getting on board and doing the research and then I start reading and I become very sad and overwhelmed. I am in the grieving process right now and that is making it very difficult for me to get anywhere.

I think any parent with a child on the spectrum understands the grieving process. Please give yourself time to process the emotions. At the risk of sounding like Pollyanna, you are so fortunate to have discovered your sons needs (and his gifts!) so early. There is so much that can be done to help kids like your son and my daughter -- and the fact that you will be taking action early will give him such a boost.

I really do share your pain, but I also remain very hopeful about what the future holds for your son. In many ways, we found Juliet's diagnosis to be a bit of a relief (some might say blessing) because it helped us understand her "funky wiring."

Best of luck on your 2e journey, and just know that there are parents out there who understand what it feels like to walk in similar shoes.

Kristen

Mamabird, there is a very supportive discussion forum for ASDs and a lot of good information here:

http://www.aspergersyndrome.org/Home.aspx

Yes, the learning curve is steep at the beginning, but it's totally worthwhile.

Best,
DeeDee

Hi Mamabird,

For your question on how to go about testing for gifted: I took a look at your state and wanted to provide you with the following link, just in case you haven't found it yet.

http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/state_policy_minnesota_10024.aspx

Minnesota is a state where gifted programming is mandated: partially funded by state, but there are no set guidelines at the state level for gifted so it will depend on your district. My state, Texas, is very similar to this and each district is different. The best thing to do is to check out your district's website and see if they mention what age they test for gifted. If they don't mention it than definitely call and talk to a counselor. Be prepared to provide information on 2e because they might push the one-sided approach. There is also links from that page for state level support groups. They are usually the best ones to talk to and they might be able to offer up evidence of other students that have gone through the district that are 2e. They will also have a contact person who they work with in your district.

I hope this helps and I totally agree with Grinity that you need a medical diagnosis, especially since your son sounds HG+ and what you have described could very possibly be SI. My daughter has a classmate who could easily be IDed as on the spectrum but he is a HG+ child as well and his problems are all related to SI. He does OT such as your son and it has helped him some. It all takes time.

Mamabird - are you a member of MCGT, Minnesota Council of Gifted Talented? They have a yahoogroup that really might be able to help you with local resources. And the tone tends to be similar to this board. I do not have a 2E child, so I'm not help that way, but I've read many 2E issues discussed there.

http://www.mcgt.net/

Kristen - I agree that while it is daunting, it is also kind of a relief. We are so fortunate to have found this at such a young age, especially since he is so high functioning. The school psychologist that we have been working with said kids at his level normally are not identified until at least 2nd or 3rd grade.

DeeDee - THANK YOU! I will look into joining this group. I was hesitant to pay the membership fee without knowing if it were a good resource.

Katelyn'sMom - I am actually kind of concerned because this is all I am finding regarding our SD's gifted program
District Talent Development

I am not certain that they do testing outside of the district MAP testing, etc. I am looking into that further.

KimCK - I am in contact with the person in charge of the 2E group associated with MCGT. It is considered a group and not a chapter and there is not a chapter in my area, so I am trying to figure out what to indicate when I sign up.

Thank you all for your help and resources. Keep it coming if you have any more!

That's great mamabird - just wanted to make sure you know we have excellent local resources and support! When I first joined MCGT, I didn't have a local chapter either. Now we homeschool, so I'm in the homeschool chapter. It's ok not to have one.

mamabird, I am also in the Twin Cities suburbs with a 2E child (D15, Asperger's and a non-verbal learning diasability). Agree with kim, MCGT is a great local resource! Sorry I can't provide a specific name of someone for you (our testing has been sort of scattered, IQ testing by someone with experience with gifted kids, but the 2E part by someone else...), but I bet the MCGT Yahoo! group would have some recommendations for sure.

I don't actually belong to a chapter, never have although I have been an MCGT member for about 12 years. I just use the online resources, and have enjoyed their annual conference in the past (haven't been lately).

Many children who are academically advanced can show their abilities quite well with the MAP test that is designed for students 2nd grade and up. This test is taken on a computer, and the more questions a child answers correctly, the harder questions are asked. Therefore you can compare your child's achievement to that of children in higher grades quite easily. This can be a big help in Advocacy. Just be sure your child understands that unlike other tests, with the MAP, the more the child knows, the longer the test will go on. The teachers may occasionally encourage the children to intentionally get a few questions wrong after 3 or 4 hours just to end the test (and who can blame them since they may believe that once a child is at grade level that their learning is going well 'by definition', so who needs to know exactly how far above grade level they actually are?)

smiles,
Grinity