He does not want to be here. He has so many problems he does not want to live. When I called him out about lying to us about his computer and internet use (there are rules and safeguards, but he tries to work around them) he yelled at me to apologize for embarrassing him and threatened to jump out of the window otherwise. He hates being good at math and LA and bad at sports, insisting no one is ever embarrassed or has to suffer mean remarks for being bad at math, but he is embarrassed about being so poor at sports and is convinced everyone thinks less of him for being so.

Problem is, he is actually an awfully poor athlete. No coordination, low muscle tone, hypermobility, physically fearful, hates competition, vestibular and proprioceptive issues, absolutely useless at anything involving a ball. He is stalling in martial arts, enjoyed kayaking, but may not be able to get any where for hating to put his head under water. I had to pull him out of we swimming for that - his swimming actually got poorer the longer he was in that particular class that placed such an emphasis on it, as they should, frankly. Once he got over his fears, he made progress quite nicely with private skiing lessons and did well in an age appropriate class after, but of course it's useless as year round exercise. I am ready to pay for private lessons where possible but in clubs and teams, he is at an age where coaches aware losing patience with kids who are not only abysmal but show that they actually hate it, too. So, it is hard to be encouraging but truthful - I tell him that athletics simply isn't the thing for people born into our family, that his parents were just as poor, that we grew up and enjoyed our talents we do have regardless, but he is not currently receptive. Please believe me, I have NO personal ambition invested in this and do not think he thinks I do so, I couldn't care less about athletic success, but I wish he'd find "his" sport", it might work wonders for his confidence. I know it did for me! And he does need to get out and about for his health and sensory diet but I am at my wits end with this.

My shrink, whom I mentioned the suicidal ideation to, not sure how seriously to take it, has referred me to a child psychiatrist she insist knows his stuff. We were away, so can call only tomorrow. I'm full of doubt anyone can help with this combination of asynchrony (his FSIQ came in at 154). We are NOT In the US, so list like hoagies are not of use for us.

Or maybe we should have done the grade skip into fifth grade in the gifted middle school program. But he's not ready for middle school.

Not sure what I'm even asking for here. Sympathy, I guess, and if anyone's got ideas for how to go forward from here, I'm all ears!

"My" sport turned out to be competitive ballroom dancing in college. If he can get past the goofiness of the costumes, he might like it. He doesn't have to compete to enjoy dancing, and it might help the vestibular and proprioceptive issues. Just a thought - I don't know if it's actually helpful. If nothing else, I encourage you to broaden your focus a little and keep looking.

Later in life, I learned that the sports I liked were individual sports that absolutely did not involve reacting to (or working with) other people (which, for whatever reason, I'm really bad at).

My personal favorite sport is cycling. It's just me and the road, and getting better is beating personal bests (rather than beating other people). I'd lump swimming and running into that same category, but YMMV.

So sorry to hear he's going through such a rough spot! If it's any consolation to him, this is from a guy who was always picked last in gym class: it gets better.

Yes I would look at cross country or running in general, dance, stationary or outdoor biking, rock climbing, and yoga.

When my son was young, my gym had some " kid fit" classes run by a personal trainer that was fun in a group setting and much better than a PE class at elementary school. Something like that might be fun.

My heart goes out to you Tigerle, and to your son. He isn't alone. He's just got to believe that's true. So many of us have been in his shoes. And now we're in yours.

Same here, re traditional team/ball sports, though I love the feeling of working on a team. My solutions: (1) symphonic and marching band, (2) horses. My DH has a fair number of students that sound a bit like your DS. DH teaches guitar, and coaches a few garage bands. That really helps some of them too.

Take care,
Sue

What is your sport?

If he enjoyed kayaking, possibly a rowing machine may be of interest? Or other upper-body exercises?

If he enjoys skiing, possibly other lyrical lower-body movements such as a scooter, skateboard, skates, dancing or bicycling may be of interest?

Anyone can, at times, feel a mismatch between the self, and the body they were born into. One person may admire another's quick wit. Meanwhile that person may not know that they are being admired for taking time and providing a calm, thoughtful response. Someone may wish to be athletic, while someone else may wish for a higher IQ. We all have difficulties we must learn to deal with, and fortunately the world needs all kinds of talents, skills, and abilities.

Some may deconstruct this:
1- he yelled. Not OK
2- for embarrassing him. (In front of whom? Most likely not embarrassing him, if it was not in front of an audience, but rather he possibly felt guilty. Possibly he also felt not very clever as he was caught when he had hoped he had outsmarted you.) He may benefit from developing an enhanced vocabulary for feeling bad, and properly attributing the source of those feelings.
3- threatened. Possibly to make you feel bad, because he felt bad. Misery loves company.

It is good you sought professional help, and I hope someone can see him soon. In the meanwhile can you keep him in eyesight, keep the home very calm/consistent/stable, explain every rule? Make sure he knows the rules and your actions are all to help him. Are you able to document situations in a journal at home, or might this trigger a strong negative response from him? Is he at all interested in journaling about his experiences, writing or drawing pictures or cartoons to express himself?

Hoagies list of Psychologists familiar with the gifted includes parent-recommended psychologists not only in the US, but also Australia, Canada, England, Netherlands. If the person you've been referred to is not on the list and you find them to be knowledgeable about gifted and helpful to your son and your family, possibly you'd contact Hoagies with your recommendation, helping build the network and assisting future families?

I would lump rowing in with cycling and the others mentioned by George C. It's a favorite of the ball-challenged and a good lifetime activity.

Yoga is not bad either.

If animals are a possibility, I would include horses and maybe like fostering dogs or agility with dogs. I found refuge in the barn with horses and in working with animals.

Other options - hiking, rowing as others have mentioned (there is team and individual with rowing - and a single can be quite meditative). I am hoping when the kids are older that we will be able to do hikes like the Grand Canyon and other national parks. I believe you are in Europe so I am wondering if there are places like that to look forward to. I know when we stayed in Toscana, one of our favorite activities was walking on the trails by our hotel in the countryside. My parents have always been big on walking (like they would park a mile or two from city center and then we would walk in) and that has stuck with me today where I prefer to walk when possible. Could that be something that you can encourage as a family?

limit his exposure to performance sports


YES.

Focus on the reasons for LIFETIME fitness, as someone else noted. Talk about being active, and maintaining physical fitness as a lifelong thing, and one that supports cognitive functions later in life, and physical wellness at all ages.

Ask him for input on new activities that he'd like to try-- or maybe things that he'd like to do more of.

For our DD, she walks or runs her dog each morning. It's part of her routine, and she does it even when she doesn't "feel" like doing so, because-- it's her responsibility to the dog as much as to herself. Meeting a buddy to exercise is similar; it works because someone ELSE is counting on you to follow through.

Sometimes and external motivator like that is helpful-- even for kids. Something that doesn't require a lot of preparation or motivation is best-- that way there is not a lot of room for excuses.

I motivated myself to use my treadmill for a while by making a rule that I could only watch House episodes while I was walking or jogging on it. As an introvert, that worked for me. Gardening is pretty good physical activity, as well.

The only ball sport i have ever liked was squash. It was fast but the court was small and a lot of it was physics. I never played enough to find out if i was any good but i wasn't completely abysmal.

Sport is not important, exercise it. He is too young now but later he may enjoy the gym if he wears something to block out the insanely loud music.

I would suggest 2 things:
1. don't let him dwell on his feelings when he gets into such a mood - divert and distract to break the spell. You can do this by drawing him into conversations that are so unexpected that his brain jumps from one track on to the next. My DS who cannot sleep because of whirling thoughts gets very frustrated when he tries for hours and still cannot fall asleep. I tell him stories that are funny or weird that he loses track of what was going on in his mind.
2. Please tire him out physically. Take him outside and go walking, biking, trekking etc. When they are physically very active, their moods improve - and preferably to a place far from where there is any team sport activity. Can you find a martial arts class with a demanding instructor who also mentors your son? It is not a team sport and he will get multiple benefits - a thorough work out, self esteem, self control and discipline in both mind and body and overall motor control improvement.

So sorry, I really hope that he feels better soon.

Hi Tigerle. Sorry you and DS are having a tough time. It does sound as though it is more than just sporting prowess causing distress but maybe that is one way for him to articulate that life isn't going how he would like it right now. Sounds like he may be having some hassles and being picked on? Is it possible that being teased for being good academically has morphed into, if I was good at sports I wouldn't be a target for teasing?

You have had some great advice and I think many of us sympathise from personal experience that not everyone is athletic. My DD has major hypermobility issues and has dislocated various joints trying to be a participant in sport. Like your DS she likes to ski, although we have to be careful with it now we know the extent of her Hypermobility. She attends a physiotherapist who runs classes for hypermobile kids once a week. The classes are part physio, part pilates, part yoga. Some of the kids are sporty despite their hypermobility and are working to build up their strength and protect joints. Our DD does special exercises before we go skiing for the same reason.

Is there a Physiotherapist involved in your DS's care who could help? Can you use skiing as a reason to do exercise and improve strength and fitness so he enjoys it more when winter rolls around? That way he is "in training" and doing a sport but it's his sport's off season!

I would also look a bit more closely at why he thinks he has to be good at a sport. Maybe in a calm moment he might tell you more about what is troubling him and you can address any other issues. Stay firm with the Internet boundaries. They are always a challenge! And good luck.

I was wondering about teasing/bullying too. Sending lots of love and peace your way...this is tough stuff.

A counselor with CBT approach (or even better--DBT) might be really helpful. It sounds like he is feeling hopeless about being able to change things that make him unhappy. DBT is really good to address identifying emotions, acceptance/mindfulness, and changing negative thinking.

edited to add: I don't think it's about athleticism, per se. Sounds more like he is suffering from self-loathing. Poor guy, poor mom having to navigate this.

Hugs to you and your son. I am so very sorry that you are going through this.

Excellent suggestions here. With boys possibly more so than with girls, sports can seem all-too-important and for some boys at least, it seems difficult to separate self-esteem and athletic ability. This is completely unfair of course to boys with other talents, but it can be so hard to see outside of peer groups, especially when one is young.

I would agree with the suggestions above about an animal companion for exercise. A dog with an outstanding temperament (if he is not allergic, although there are breeds with lower allergens) can offer unconditional love and companionship, as well as serve as a motivator for exercise. Dog sports such as agility or obedience offer a sense of athleticism and teamwork that can build a sense of well-being and joy.

Please continue to let us know how your DS is doing.

I think some kids are poor at sports, but if it's to the level that you are describing, and it's affecting his self-image, it could be developmental coordination disorder/dyspraxia. If that is the case, you could try private physical therapy. I don't know how it works with special needs kids in the schools where you are located, but DS has an IEP in the "physically impaired" category and gets "adapted phy ed" in school as well as regular phy ed with his classmates. They work on things like core strength, ball catching and throwing, jumping jacks and other coordination exercises, etc. so that he is better able to participate in the regular phy ed curriculum. I want DS to be able to keep up with the other kids in gym and on the playground (or at least not look like a fool), but I don't push sports with DS at all. Luckily he likes swimming and I keep signing him up for lessons to at least get him proficient with a few different strokes, but I don't think there is any point in pushing team sports if he doesn't want to do them. He also really likes riding his bike up and down the street. As long as a person exercises in some way (even if it's just walking), I think that's enough. Not everyone has to have a sport that they are good at. I also keep emphasizing the activities that he IS good at, so that he can focus on that and have something to feel good about, rather than dwell on being so poor at sports.

Hugs to you and your DS. I remember being poor at sports in school and feeling miserable about it. And now I can see my own kids struggling with the same thing - it's hard.

My own DS7 also has developmental coordination disorder (blackcat mentioned it - and I'm in agreement with what she said above). In school they've been pulling him out of class with a couple of other kids to do 'body break' exercises - they work on core strength and balance. At first he didn't want to but by the end of school he was enjoying them.

He's also just now started to get into swimming - he also really struggled with putting his head in the water - but just recently he decided to do it and worked at it until he got used to it. Now he asks to go swimming every day! Unfortunately, I can't tell you any tricks to make that happen - no swim instructors were able to persuade him, he just decided and that was it.

One other thing I thought I'd mention - my DD10 doesn't have DCD but she is very sedentary by nature. It is hard to even convince her to go for a walk with me. We recently gave geo-caching a try, and I think the game aspect of it was appealing. She quite happily went on a long hike with me to find a cache, when normally it would be like pulling teeth. One caveat - my DCD DS does not really enjoy hiking as he tends to trip on rocks and fall down a lot. He's a bit better now - but something to keep in mind with kids with balance and coordination issues. Don't know if geo-caching is a thing in Europe, but in Canada there are lots of urban caches as well as ones in natural areas.

Some bigger cities have indoor playgrounds/playscapes (think "Chutes and Ladders" but in real life). They can be huge and are a great workout for kids and parents alike. We go once in a while to a local one and I think the kids get a lot out it in terms of fun and overall strengthening/fitness.

Thank you so much everyone, it does so help when people GET it.

To clarify, I totally agree with everyone who points out there must be more issues at play than just sports, there is self loathing and general discontent with his life and w are trying to address that as well. It's just that there is not much I can do on the schooling front - those weeks of revision before summer vacation drove him nuts, and there is another year to go before the highly acclaimed gifted program in middle school starts, but once we agreed that he was not ready to start middle school at eight, that was it for more accommodation at this point. I guess his teacher (looped for next year as well) does what she can, but to's not enough, never will be. But: he does like his school and his teacher, does have friends, does play dates, gets invited to the occasional birthday party and the teacher assures me is not an outsider, merely socially somewhat on the fringes.

He does not get teased for being good at maths, I think he does get some grudging respect even, sort of an acceptance of the absent minded professor type. I do not think he is actually being bullied. But he did complain that no one would ever get any grief from others for being bad at maths, maths always happening in tightly controlled situations in the classroom, whereas sports happens at recess and during PE class and apparently kids find space to be mean in these settings. I think he is spot on, really - wonder what would have happened if he'd tried to refuse to "team up and play" with the kid he was forced to do a science project with for being useless, the way kids get to reject others for sports teams during recess and PE...

Talking about PE, none of his difficulties have ever warranted a real honest to god diagnosis, it's always been an also ran in an otherwise clean bill of health. He's been evaluated by a neurologist, an orthopedist, a PT, an OT. I have insisted on both PT and OT sessions, got them paid by insurance, too, that's not the issue. It's all borderline, low end of normal, blah blah, we cold keep going, can't hurt, but probably won't help...He's fully functional after all, does great on school except for PE, swims, bikes, runs...
I am convinced it's the combination of all these borderline physical issues that kills him.

Gotta go, but will be back and address more of your wonderful posts!

I really feel for your son. I was very very bad at PE. I remember really wishing for rain or snow so that PE would be cancelled. I am not good at anything sports related. Luckily I grew up in China where being good at academics was way more important than being good at sports. Plus I was a girl as I believe it is much harder for boys to be so bad at sports. As an adult I often wondered whether I had a disability of sorts. I never pursued a formal diagnosis but I do have a lot of joints and ligament and muscle pain now in my forties. I have no idea whether any of these are related though. But it is also likely that I simply was in the bottom 5% of abilities or whatever the low end of normal for physical abilities may be.
Also our PE was mostly testing about speed and skills and left me with nothing I can fall back on as a preferred physical activity.

I won't lie that it was really hard for me to be the last in everything in PE every year. But I have also always said that it was the one thing that grounded me so that I won't be too prideful. I wish our PE was less about testing and competition and more about teaching me a skill that I wasn't so turned off by it.

It was really hard I won't lie. I think the most important thing is to make him proud of other things that he is good at, which I am sure are many. Just know that as an adult, it has not really impact me much. Although I do wish I can run so that I can go out jogging with colleagues at conference or just keep up with my son.

I've never really dealt with the pure horror and shame of being not only picked "last" for PE team activities, but-- worse, being dealt as a "trade" when the sporty kids were doing the picking.

Yes, as in;

"Well, since you got SportyDude, I think that you should take Howler and DisabledGirl as a handicap for your team..."




Yes, I also had/have highly hypermobile joints, and dislocations were a regular thing in playing soccer, but I guess the good news is that I never tore any ligaments, nor have I ever broken any bones-- and this in spite of considerable klutziness. My balance and proprioception were always excellent, by the way-- so I think that was the key to avoiding injury for me personally.

I do like walking and hiking, and enjoy dancing as well. In my younger years, I enjoyed tumbling, gymnastics and marching band a lot. But most sport is simply not for me and never has been. Anything with a bat, ball, or racquet is a recipe for humiliation and frustration (at a minimum).

My current spouse didn't believe that ANYONE could be "that bad" at softball. He and another sporty friend tried desperately to teach me some measure of proficiency when we were graduate students (I was 22 at the time)-- and while I was delighted because I finally seemed to be able to CATCH a ball in a mitt-- and actually make contact when swinging a bat at a slow pitch...


it was clear from their response that my "massive improvement" was still leaving me at a place of such horrifying ineptitude relative to "normal" people that I should, um-- cheer from the sidelines. Period. It was hard to realize that my best-- improvement I'd been thrilled with, actually-- still left me so bad at something other people do for leisure. I joke that I'm not "non-athletic" but more like "anti-sport-- like anti-matter, but different." Still, I was pretty ashamed, and I was 22. Golf, rowing, and sailing I'm okay at. I was also decent at skiing (both alpine and Nordic) last I checked.



I was good with animals, too. Horseback riding, perhaps? I couldn't, being too allergic, but it's a good thing for some non-athletic kids.

I totally agree with all of you, too, that individual sports with a view to outdoor activity and lifelong fitness are the way to go, and competitive sports are OUT. We don't watch TV, but did get into the soccer World Cup a bit - he enjoyed the rules and the statistics and he was very proud he got to stay up and watch the final, and I did buy him a Brazuca ball which he kicked around for a bit (because I was so happy he finally showed an interest in a ball, seriously, he hated balls as a little kid, but I did refuse do buy the 90 Euro goalkeeper jersey). His interest waned quickly when he was kept out of the teams during recess. So, that was it for competitive games,

The problem with the individual sports is, he needs someone to go and do them with him! There are two younger siblings, one of them with special needs using a wheelchair who needs PT three times a day, I barely manage that one, I have neither the time nor the energy to tire out a soon to be 9'year old boy. And when we do go cycling as a family, it's torture - constant squabbling between him and his sister, constant moaning about the place we are going, constant shrieking because he bangs his toes or his shins or his helmet itches or whatever - it takes about a hour for him to settle into an activity and begin to enjoy it. By then, his siblings have enough and begin moaning and shrieking,..

The dog suggestion is spot on too - he loves going out with my brother and his large dog, but they don't live close, We can't get a dog ourselves, our house is tiny, we have a cat and his younger siblings are terrified of dogs, as was he at their age. I wish my husband would take him biking more often, but he moans he doesn't have time either (and says he was just as useless at sports and grew up fine regardless, conveniently forgetting that he must have been one of the unhappiest middle schoolers around. So, no buy in there, which is one of the problems,)
I will ask my FIL to take him biking more often, they get on well doing it but he's 73, there are limits there, too.
He loves scootering, but does not really have a friend to do it with, and won't go out on his own.
I have put him on the wait list for a swim club that does recreational swimming. I will also drive him to the kayaking winter pool training as often as I can, to find out whether they can manage to motivte him to put his head underwater, agree it has to come from him ultimately - if they can't, kayaking's over. Again, husband hates having to take the kids places, need more buy in there because I can't do it all alone.
One of the problems with the martial arts class he did up to now was that whenever I didn't drive him, husband wouldn't either, so he fell behind and was really frustrated. The other being that he is at a point where he needs to actually try hard, get out of his comfort zone. He won't. He rather told the instructor he didn't want to be there anyway. Sigh. I mean, I'm used to ignoring the moaning, but coaches just can't take this, and I get it. the instructor actually happens to be a psychomotor therapist in her day job but when she's coaching she's got her coaching hat on. I'll try to motivate him to try once more for the yellow belt,maybe he'll find his motivation, and if not, he can quit after. But again, there are limits to other peoples understanding and patience. Oh, and it's judo, and of course they do competitions. Another reason he is sabotaging himself I think, because he is so afraid that he might have to take part soon.

Skiing is again hard to organize on my own. Slopes are over an hour away and I can't just drive us for the day, I'm afraid I'd fall asleep at the wheel going back. We would have to go for the weekend and I need my husband for that. Sigh. More dependence. And I'd need an instructor and later, a class for him to make progress - he sure won't let me teach him! (I happen to be a very good skier. One of my sports - I realize I actually have several).

Rock climbing - he tried it first at a birthday party I had to basically force him to attend - I allowed to take his e-reader, but made him stay with the group - told him he didn't have to climb, but have to be there, not hide away with me. After two hours, he finally decided to try it out and loved it. He did express an interest in continuing, so I signed him up for a beginners class. He'll have to do an advanced class as well before he can train in earnest though, and they only do fortnightly training for kids. And I'm just not sure how much if a workout you actually get. And it's expensive, sigh.
Running - there's no one to run with him. And I can't put him in track. Too poor an athlete for a regular team, I'd just set him up for failure. Same for dance, he'd hate it, as uncoordinated as he is.
Rowing is absolutely on my radar - but you have to be twelve where we live. Another one of my sports, I was actually told I had a talent for it, but was twenty two, so recreational rowing all the way. I do not currently have the time, but would love to start again with him! So, it's kayaking on our river until then or nothing!

I have recently organized therapeutic riding for my disabled youngest. I may try to sign him up too, to instructor is sceptical, or try to organize proper riding lessons, the problem again, it's quite a drive wherever we want to go.

I wish wish wish for something I could just drop him off for weekly that's not dependent on weather, or better even he could get to under his own speed, and someone else is in charge of tiring him out. Because frankly, the way it usually works my three tire ME out.

Oh, my weather independent weekly sport? Gymnastics, believe it or not. It was a fluke - my mom kept making me try stuff out because she had a somewhat waldorfian view of balance, bless her, trying to get me " out of my head", but I am grateful, because I did get hooked. there were kids from my school I liked, I liked the coach, the coach liked me and enjoyed my measly progress for what it was. I was easily the worst on the team, but I WAS on the team, and soon I was one of the sportier kids in school, simply for working hard twice a week.

I shouldn't forget the one I need buy in from most is DS - he doesn't want to work herd. When he realized his little sister could pump herself on the swing and he still couldn't, he attacked her for it rather than practicing himself, screaming the playground down. I first had to shield DD, them get hi to actually get back on and practice, yelling back that I knew he COULD do it if he only tried harder. (I was right, too). But it's one of those situations that leave me exhausted.

My heart goes out to all of you who had to suffer through horrible PE and games classes in school!

Forgot to mention that kid shrink is of course fully booked for the next three months, I mentioned suicidal ideation and they promised to move us to the top of the wait list and phone if there was a cancellation. Can do no more...

Possibly a good topic for the therapist or counselor you were referred to? It is possible that if the relationship were to improve the siblings could play together... some day bike/run/walk/kayak/scooter/practice soccer dribbling together?

In reading this about DH and this about DS Is it possible that DS has learned non-participation from DH? Possibly an aspect of the family dynamic to discuss with the counselor or therapist you were recommended to?

Tigerle you are dealing with an awful lot and doing well. I do wish you could get more support from your DH. Mine is rarely home so I get how hard it is to do stuff when you have so many other demands on your time.

Taking a different tack entirely, I was remembering that when my DD was in sixth grade she had vetoed a skip into High School (starts in year 7 here) and then totally regretted it. It was her worst school year. There was a lot of depression and I do remember a lot of angst over PE as yet another blow to her self esteem. Once she was in High School she didn't care so much that sport and PE were not her fortes as long as she was being challenged academically. It helped that she had a very supportive PE teacher for two of her years in PE. The one year she didn't have him but a very unsupportive teacher it was awful but she coped so much better because she no longer saw PE as a big deal.

So I was wondering......can you revisit your schooling option for next year? Do you think a better academic fit might relieve some of the other stress or do you think they are just too separate as issues?

Given everything you are doing in your life I would hate to generate any stress with that suggestion. I just know that for our DD being saisfied and challenged academically made dealing with other challenges so much easier.

For what is worth I went along with her veto of the grade skip at the time as she was a little 9 year old. She has now skipped into that year group anyway. She was talking the other day about how different life might have been if she had done the skip earlier brut to her credit, she identified lots of good things that she experienced anyway. So often there are no perfect answers, just trial and error and making do.

It's actually one of the things he says he hates about himself - his lack of impulse control concerning his sister! He gets into annoying or teasing moods and JUST WONT LEAVE HER ALONE! This has to get better, I agree, but I haven't much hope for having them exercise together, DD is almost for years younger.

He sure gets it from DH, but I think it's nature rather than nurture!
Can't think where he gets his tendency to blame others for everything though

God I keep revisiting it in my head all the time. I do not think they are separate issues at all, not with our kids.
The middle school with the gifted program is on the other side of town. He'd have to ride two buses, for an hour. He wouldn't know a soul. We are planning to to have DH take him as far as the second bus stop in the morning, so he at least won't have to change, and we will be moving closer in a few years (when the house that sucks so much of DHs time will be finished). There is also a kid in the neighbouring village going there and we might carpool, don't know how much driving they do, their kid being rather older. Middle school of course would mean nine subjects or so with subject teachers, huge EF demands, and he might actually have to study! I just don't think he's ready but keep wondering whether it's just me who isn't ready, sigh....right now, school is only half days and homework an after thought, and we can concentrate on enrichment. Does have its advantages.

His report card was glowing. All As (except for PE of course), lots of little compliments from his teacher on his social skills, even on his trying harder in PE. Biggest compliment: even though he is clearly above an beyond his classmates, especially for maths, he never acts bored or disengaged.

Umm. It all comes out at home, I guess.

I would like to add everyone that DH is a teacher, home a lot (when he's not working on the new house) and extremely supportive with everything BUT enrichment that necessitates driving and/or practicing, such as sports and music classes, because he feels we all have too much on our plates anyway.

I think I gave in easily when DD vetoed her grade skip to high school because I wasn't ready either. When she did go, 10 turning 11, I was also worried about the EF stuff but she thrived and became so much more organised and capable. It wasn't demanded of her before then! So they can surprise you. We didn't have the issue of buses and changing buses etc so there wasn't that pressure.

I do wonder though, if and when he gets to the middle school, whether you won't need to worry as much about extra activities and enrichment. The additional challenge with the EF side was almost enough to keep DD busy for a couple of months.

I am not sure your DH doesn't have a valid point that you are busy and do have a lot on your plate. The problem is there are just some things we do have to do no matter how tired and busy we are. And then we get tired and finding a way to make it all better becomes all the more elusive.

I hope you find sometime to breathe and then work out a plan for your DS. By the way, even though he doesn't have a diagnosed condition, some physical therapy can help improve his core strength and proprioception. I don't know how funding would work for you without a "named diagnosis". Some of the conditions related to hypermobility can be diagnoses of exclusion and not well understood by many people.

I forgot to say, your most telling statement for me was "it all comes out at home".
Yes. That is so what we saw. Trying to look interested and stay on task all day can be exhausting when the work really isn't very interesting. I think that says a lot about what your DS is struggling with.

Does your DS have a good friend? One he can invite over to play and vice versa? That might help and be easier than trying to find all of these organized activities. Just a thought. It sounds a bit like he's decided that he doesn't fit in because of sports, but maybe it's really something a little different and what he's lacking is a social connection to peers?

I understand completely about the lack of time because of other demands, and also the sibling squabbling, which can be exhausting. I'm wondering if a gestalt shift might work better: instead of focusing on something "out there" that might provide a fix, maybe strengthening relationships and connection at home, and trying to develop an important friendship, would help him feel more centered and secure in himself.

I feel for you (and relate to you). It seems you have overwhelming needs at home and lack support. My sense is that adding more is not the immediate answer. Those are just musings from a fellow traveler.

Eco, you're so right. Problem is, I can't book the friend the way I could book a class! And guess who in our house is responsible for setting up the play dates, and who gets to moan when I tell him that I won't be home and it's his job to do pick ups or drop offs or run interference when tempers fly as opposed to just get mad and yell.

I'm not looking at sports as a panacea. It's just about one set of his needs to be met, ie exercise, outdoor time, sensory diet, and yes, social recognition.

I never made it as far as being one of the sporty kids who get to pick the teams, but God, how I LOVED suddenly being among the first or second tier of pickees once I started working hard in gymnastics class. Getting medals and honours certificates for doing well on sports day (as opposed to the mere commendation I got before, or the simple certificate of participation poor DS gets) was such a boost for my sorry self confidence. And DS8 is not immune, at the ski resort we go to all kids get a medal for successfully completing class, and they all treasure them.

DH remembers the tremendous boost he got in confidence when he found out during the school ski trip that he was actually quite good at something for a change! and best of all, his PE teacher who was their instructor found out as well and suddenly treated him with a lot more respect back home even though he kept bumbling his way through games, realizing it was about fit and not about laziness or opposition. He also was the kind of kid who'd just roam the woods on his bike, and later, go on over night bike tours with friends by the time he was thirteen. I don't think DS would do that, now or later. Not sure I'd let him, TBH!

So, it's not that DH doesn't understand. I think he's just as overwhelmed as I am, and digging in and refusing to engage is his way of showing it. Yup, apple and tree here, for sure.

I have an idea. With a disabled child, we're eligible for three weeks family rehab every four years at lest and haven't taken any yet. I'll try to set something up in the mountains in February or so, take him out of school, not that he's missing anything, and we'll go skiing as much as we can!

Ideas:
Trampoline (even small one, indoor type)
Wii Sports (I know you said you don't watch TV--do you do game consoles?) I really think there is some value in the kinetic type games, in terms of developing eye-hand coordination, and body awareness. And sometimes siblings will even get along to play these together!

My DS learned everything there is to know about sports via video games. He also played a few team sports, the best one being baseball--I think it is less overstimulating than soccer (scared him to death) and basketball (which he is ill-suited for, physically). I know video games aren't exactly what you're looking for, but I do think for DS his encyclopedic knowledge of these helped, socially.

Playdates can be difficult when you are already over-extended. With my eldest--who craved social connections but was awkward--our strategy was to invite, invite, invite other kids over until they began to reciprocate. I had more time, then, though, with only one child.

As an aside: with my middle DS, martial arts went okay until suddenly it didn't, following a "Stranger Danger" class where they taught the kids how to get away from a predator. He pretty much melted down and refused to ever participate again. Anxiety, obviously. Wonder if anxiety related issues are interfering with your son's enjoyment of physical stuff?


Sounds like an awesome opportunity to get some respite, recreation, and family time!

Lots of positive vibes sent in your direction.

I think this is a great idea. There can also be positive "spill over" effects from scheduling a special trip. A bright kid might be really motivated to work at conditioning and other off season training to help get ready and be prepared to really have a good time.

I don't have that much advice for you but I hope that you can figure things out soon! You sound like you're under a lot of stress right now and super exhausted -- maybe sleeping in could be your family's sport :-)
The one thing I would say is that it seems like you're dealing with sports as fitness and sports as a social factor, and while there's definitely some overlap of what he's good at, I would try to deal with it separately. Personally, I'd shelve exercise for now, or just try walking instead, and focus on social problems first.

Am having a bit of a respite week here: DS8 is away on his long expected five day trip with the grandparents to see the sights of the capital - he's been before, and loved it, but the priority has always been his little brother in the hospital. This time it's a sheer pleasure trip, and all about him, the perfect two adults to one DS8 ratio, and from what he sounds like of the phone, he's in heaven. and DD and DS2, most of the time best of friends, are enjoying their twosomeness without DS8 constantly picking fights with DD. ("Stop looking at me! Look! She's looking at me funny!").
We will soon travel to the mountains and do some hiking and swimming and then there is the rock climbing class at the end of summer. I hope DS8s relaxation will carry over for a bit. In the mountains, we hope to spend some time with an old friend from school who is vacationing near our place and whose kids, the few times ours have met them appear to be a good fit (another little engineer!).
Found out that most mountain family rehab centers have no provision for disabled kids, those are almost exclusively on the seaside. But they must organize teaching for school age kids every day, ugh! I think a nation can carry mandatory schooling laws too far...

It sounds like a very good time now for the whole family! Perhaps just what your DS needs, a time to pause and enjoy his interests in a new environment!

The trip sounds great.

I want to follow up on something FruityDragons said, i.e. sports as fitness and social tools. I think that is a really important point. Luckily, as kids get old, playing sports as a social tool becomes less important for a large percentage of kids who are not as talented. Video games become more important. Watching and following sports become more important. DS8 just has a few more years to ride out on this.

Meanwhile, I just introduced my 6 year old son to Minecraft. Luckily, he is not nearly as bad at sports as I was. But I doubt sports will feature on his college application. Something digital may very well be.

I have found minecraft to be a much more effective social lubricant so far than sports, LOL!

Just to clarify, the goal at the moment is to find an activity that DS8 enjoys sufficiently to expend some effort to improve his abysmal coordination and strength, and get his exercise and sensory needs met. He doesn't have to be good at it, just good enough not to embarrass himself of a regular basis. Because that's what appears to be happening in PE class and recess in school. Ie sports are so far away from being a social tool right now, they are a social liability.

If he found something that he has the skills and enjoyment for to pursue seriously (not competitively), and that would give him some kudos with his classmates even though he'll always remain useless at soccer, that would be gravy!

Just wanted to let you all know that I reread the thread to make sure I missed none of the advice and ideas and that I think your input has been awesome. I am much more confident about next year now. Thank you!

A little update about us, for those of you who are interested:

My shrink wrangled an appointment for us with the kiddie shrink during the holidays and we talked together, the three of us, for an hour.

DS8 had initially been terrified of the appointment "what if he finds out there is something badly wrong with me? What if it turns out I have an addiction to melancholy?!" but was able to discuss his thoughts and fears, and the way his thoughts crowd one another and turn upsetting and scary, very well with the man.

We discussed previous ASD evals, a possible ADHD eval (I'm sure it would be just as pointless as the ASD eval, how would a child with real ADHD be the model student he presents as in elementary?), possible medication (no and no at this point) and he finally suggested a round of cognitive therapy, which he felt DS8 was cognitively advanced enough to profit from.

He admitted to having trouble believing his IQ score (not because he was doubting Ds8 is gifted, which he clearly didn't) but because it was just so sky high (154 FSIQ, which only on this board wouldn't make anyone blink I guess) and suggested retesting with the new WISC. I admitted to still having trouble believing the score too, but not seeing the point in any more testing at this junction - I argued we all agree that however high it was, it was high, and high enough for him to struggle (a friend later told me the man used to have a clinic exclusively for ADHD so I guess it's what he's automatically looking for).

However, we agreed on trying out the cognitive therapy first and DS8 has had one appointment with one of the therapists I the clinic and will have another before school starts, after which we are to switch to a therapist in another clinic who he felt was ideal for the situation and which I have heard comes highly recommended. Only it's one hell of a drive. Eye roll. I guess it will have to count as part of his "enrichment" for this academic year.

DS8 is much calmer these days. The appointments? The vacation? Who knows, I am just breathing.

On the physical side, we have had fun In the mountains and did a lot of swimming and climbing and building in the creeks. Back here, he's had his first proper coaching sessions with the kayakers. He was moaning and complaining all the way there, crying about being afraid of being the last and the weakest - and the coach managed to reassure him anyway, got him in the boat and all the way up the river to the whitewater canal, where the more advanced kids where training.

While chatting to some random guy on a bike who dropped by, I watched him turn over In the canal, get out and swim to the bank, shrieking to high heaven that he was DONE with kayaking for the rest of his life, wanted to GO HOME RIGHT NOW etc. Random guy on the bike turned out to be one of the coaches who lives locally and likes to drop by on fine evenings, talked to him, talked him into getting back in the boat, going down the canal and all the way back to the boathouse - he didn't even wear a wetsuit, just ordinary sportswear, and finished the training session dripping wet. For the rest of the week, he told everyone happily about how he'd fallen in. I was SO proud. He wants to try again! We will have to see how the underwater training in the pool goes this winter. I really like the people at this club.

He also had his first day of climbing class and LOVED it. He's been happy and relaxed all afternoon! The kid NEEDs stimulating exercise. He can't continue after this week because there are no advanced classes for kids currently offered, so we will have to wait for the next one scheduled, as he needs to have completed the advanced class until he can start biweekly training. But it's another option waiting in the wings. Exhale.

Looks like it's all outdoor and mountain sports for him...Kayaking, climbing. Skiing, guess we are lucky we are not that far even for European standards. An hour to the foothills, another to serious mountains, the river and a brand new climbing facility on our doorstep.

Tigerle, that's great that you're doing better. Some good exercise can work wonders, even if it can't solve everything! I hope you're taking care of yourself too. Hang in there!