So DS6 has had his evaluation. We don't have a full report but the gist is that we have our work cut out for us.

As it stands, his GAI is just a couple of points off from DYS level but hopefully with the extended norms on the ceilings it will get there. A free consultant would be nice but honestly given all the other issues, I am not sure it would help much. Plus we'd have to do a portfolio because achievement is not there.

There is a four SD spread between VCI and PSI/WMI and a three SD spread between PRI and PSI/WMI.

He has dysgraphia and dyslexia.

Plus there is all that genetic disorder stuff.

We have a lot to figure out.

Take a deep breath.

I understand you have a lot to figure out and still don't have the full report. It's very overwhelming (or was for us too when we first heard). Try to take away the positive: Now, you have a lot of information about your dc to help him.

Hang in there.

I hear you KJP and yes it will be a lot of work. All the folks here told me how lucky we were to get very similar information at the age of 6 rather than at 10 or 12 or even older. I am going to tell you the same thing.

I wouldn't worry about the DYS side of things just yet. IMO you will need to get a handle on the LD side before you move on the other stuff. With labeled disabilities should come appropriate accommodations - that is a big plus. I have found that I have had to do the research myself and educate the school team on the effects of slow processing speed. They seem to understand dyslexia and dysgraphia pretty well and do a kind of ok job on working memory issues. Learning about the effects of slow processing speed, though, was a bit of a wake up call.

So as Melessa says Take a Deep Breath. You have done an awesome job finding this information early and the folks on this board have a wealth of knowledge and a generosity of spirit to share their experiences to help along the way.

Do you have any recommendations for resources on the effects of slow processing speed?

KJP, that's a lot to manage. I hope you're not discouraged, though: knowing is much, much better than not knowing, and you've done a great job figuring everything out.

Hang in there,
DeeDee

This will link you to a page with several good articles and other resources.

http://www.familylight.com/link3/3.04/S_Proc/index.htm

Thanks for that Pemberly. One thing that I found puzzling that I didn't ask about was why his PSI dropped so drastically from his WPPSI III score at four and a half.

He dropped from 81st percentile to the sixteenth.

Does anyone know how the measures are different between the tests?

KJP-- I don't have any words of help but my son similarly dropped from 90th percentile on WPPSI (at 4) to 16th on WISC (at 6)and now has a 61pt spread. I find myself wishing we could clinically compare these kids we have with such similar issues and figure out all the "whats" and "whys".

My completely unresearched theory is that the expectations for processing are much higher with age.... agemates are making large strides in growth during those years that our children's brains were not able to make.

Well I am glad someone else has seen that happen. When I realized the percentile drop today, I started wondering if he'd had a head injury in the last year that I didn't know about.

My other horribly unsettleing theory is that his handwriting drill intensive preK/K experience has damaged his hands somehow.

I remember reading something about handwriting accommodations for EDS (maybe it was on here?) that the accommodations weren't just for accessing the curriculum they were for preventing permanent damage.

That is indeed a horrible thought to live with for you. Would it be possible to be screened by a specialist so you would know one way or other?

KJP I suspect that for younger children the processing speed tests like coding are more impacted by intellect than motor skills, the older the child gets the less its about thinking/understanding and the more they are competing with their age peers visual/motor skills. At 4.5 my DD score a perfectly average 10 on coding - but she put he pencil down exactly halfway through the available time. She's NOT fast and has a major handwriting issue that was unaddressed at that time. But, for a 4yr old she had an excellent grasp of what was required and was efficient mentally. She did each operation exactly twice with 100% accuracy and then stopped.

Edited to add: at the time we thought she was being contrary due to the mindnumbingly boring nature of the test. Retrospectively she was probably in pain.

chay-- thank you for asking that question!

Pemberley-- I thought I knew what there was about processing speed (not much) but your link was helpful and I had a bit of an aha moment understanding this better for the first time. Some behaviors I had attributed to ADHD may be part of his substantial processing issue. Most notably the inflexibility and over the top transition issues. He gets SOOOO stuck!! We use Michelle Garcia's social thinking curriculum concepts with this but there are times it is just truly unmanageable. At those times I have often fantasized about having a child who COULD be distracted by something else. Mine never forgets.

After reading what was available at that link and googling a bit myself, I feel more enlightened about why we get some of the odd reactions we get. Lots more is making sense! In light of this, we changed things today regarding our homeschool approach. I added more structure with a healthy dose of flexibility and choice. I divided our day into 3 sections in which each began with a meal or snack and ended with free play. Transitioning out of play to eating should be easy for him. After the meal is a favored learning activity that he will be excited to do. Previously he was getting stuck in these endless loops obsessing about something and either working too much (to point of irritability) or too little on learning.

I also realize that the complaints I heard in my last school meeting about him totally fit with the descriptions of the impact of processing speed. He's in the 16th percentile there... that is HUGE (!) but he is brilliant also and presents as such so teachers are beyond frustrated when the processing roadblocks show. It seems so illogical to them that he could have any such impairment and they chalk it up to behavior issues... I wish I had had the knowledge to address that better in that meeting. Going forward I certainly get it better.

KJP-- I'm sorry you have that thought of the possibility of physical damage--that is such a painful thought. We are still dealing with psychological damage (PTSD) in our son from the special private Gifted School we paid so much for. I try to remind myself that we can only work with the information we have to make our best choice. When we knew more, we made different choices. I also tell myself that I need all my energy and attention... I don't have enough to spare any dwelling on the past. I'm trying to keep learning and moving forward. I hope you find better days ahead now that you are learning so much about why everything has been so very, very challenging.

Another link for processing speed
http://www.davidsongifted.org/db/Articles_id_10447.aspx

Thanks Pemberley and KJP for the links. I've read through a couple of the articles and I definitely share in HappilyMom's aha moment. My DS7 was in the 9th%tile for Processing Speed when they tested him last year and I still feel like I'm wrapping my head around what that really means. Rigidity describes him to a T. Even as an infant transitions were traumatic. We've made a lot of improvements but then something like the usual dental hygienist being on Mat leave last week completely threw him into a meltdown. It was one thing to have a tantrumming toddler but at 7 it is a bit much. This kid can be exhausting (but then turn around and be so crazy sweet and smart).

I also agree with the above - do the best you can with the info you have and don't beat yourself up for the past. Now I think I'll send that to myself as a reminder once a week/day/hour - ha ha

Thanks so much! Good luck in your journeys.

For those with children with a similar profile, what therapies/accommodations/programs have you tried and what has worked best?

My DD8 (3rd grade) has a few more issues than your DS. Along with 51 points difference between VCI and Working Memory and 56 to Processing Speed she also has 40 points difference with Visual Perception. She doesn't have the high PRI number your DS has. In addition to Dyslexia and Dysgraphia she also has been diagnosed with Dyspraxia and Math Disability (aka Dyscalcula) along with fine motor deficit and anxiety. Interestingly she does not have a lot of the issues normally associated with the processing speed deficit - she is exceedingly compliant and eager to please. She has always transitioned well and enjoys new experiences. She tends to dwell longer and "get stuck" in areas of imaginative play and remembering past wrongs done to her. She is v-e-r-y slow in everything she does and always seems to be a beat or 2 behind in her reaction time. She mentally makes connections much faster than other kids but is always the one to get caught and be scolded if a group of kids are doing something, cannot for the life of her succeed in games like tag and is inevitably the last in line or to exit a group activity.

In first grade we had an amazing teacher who was very good at differentiating and accommodating in the classroom. Second grade we had a teacher who was exactly the opposite. She either could not or would not accept DD's profile or follow the IEP. She did absolutely no modification of any kind and just plain expected DD to be like all the NT kids. The school gave her first a part time and then a full time para to scribe and help with in class work as well as take her on "anxiety breaks." This was not a good strategy but it was what the district was willing/able to do.

Now that we are in out of district placement at a spec ed school we are focusing heavily on the use of Assistive Technology and I am really pushing them to work on getting DD independent. She has an iPad and I have been fighting like a demon to get what she needs put in place. They are using a spelling app, a math app, teaching her to keyboard and working on finding a voice to text app that will work with her voice. They have shown her how to have the iPad read highlighted text aloud to her so she is able to access the internet now for more than just videos.

She is in an 8th grade reading group for her comprehension strength which is a big plus. For some reason they haven't been able to figure out how to get her access to the audio books for the class but she is listening to the older kids read aloud and participates in the discussions. When I spoke to the AT consultant the other day I asked about apps to help with working memory and she said she would load Luminocity to try to help with that. She said there are parts of it that should help with the processing speed portion but she couldn't think of anything in particular to use just for the processing issues.

It's too early to tell for sure - especially since our district actually blocked her access to the AT services - but I think I have been seeing a difference in just the last week or so since they started providing the services. She is calmer, more self assured and has a maturity about her that wasn't there just a couple of weeks ago. I think having a sense of independence and believing that she just may be able to do these things is helping. Also being able to do some higher level comprehension work has to feel good. I can't imagine what it must have been like to have every hour of every school day focus only on things she was struggling with. No wonder she developed anxiety and migraines...

Hope this gives you a few ideas. I'm eager to hear what others have tried with similar profiles.


ETA: just for frame of reference DD's processing speed is 7th percentile, working memory is 13th

Therapies
We did a couple months of this - http://www.c8sciences.com/

DS then started to fight it so we stopped. Not sure if it was making a difference but it was free and started off fun for him so figured there wasn't much risk.

Accommodations
I don't have his IEP in front of me which has more but the main ones that I feel make a difference are
- scribing - we were allowed to scribe for him for all of his homework (and he had lots since his teacher basically sent home everything that he didn't do at school which was basically everything they did last year). At school the teacher or a parent volunteer could scribe.
- oral testing instead of written - much of grade 1 was done this way anyway but will likely be more of an issue as he gets older.
- when they have to copy stuff off of the board he used to get a copy of his own at his desk to copy from instead.

We don't have this but I will be arguing for it to be added next time we review his IEP
- reduced/differentiated work - honestly this kid doesn't need to do 30 math problems such as 5+4. Give him 5 3 digit addition problems and he will magically be able to write the answers but the easy ones he can't be bothered with. His school is supposed to be differentiating but I haven't seen it in math and he is bored out of his mind.

Grade 1 was the worst for us since it was the big adjustment to sitting at a desk and being expected to write things. He was also really frustrated because he knows he is super smart but he felt dumb watching the other kids easily write 4 page stories. After testing we talked to him about the results and that also seemed to help take the edge off. We didn't go into huge detail but just said that he was really smart at some things like science and math (this wasn't news to him) and that other things were a lot harder such as writing and that was ok. Everyone has different things that they are really good at and then other things that take a lot more work. We also talked about how riding a bike or skating were really hard when he started but he stuck with it, practiced lots and now he's really good at them to try to make writing practice seem less like torture.

Grade 2 seems to be better and his writing is slowly improving which has helped. He also has a WAY better teacher which has made a big difference. YMMV but maybe that gives some ideas. I'll try to go through his IEP and see what I missed later tonight.

So I am feeling discouraged and I guess I am just feeling like getting people to understand the significance of his scores is going to be a hard sale.

DS enjoys school and as far as I know he is happy there.

His teachers just want him to try harder. They say he is on grade level with handwriting and slightly above in other areas. I don't know how to tactfully say "Well, that isn't good enough. He's the oldest kid in his class and he has a GAI three standard deviations above the mean. Being at grade level is a sign of a big problem"

He is in the "it is too hard and too easy" zone and I don't see a way out.

KJP, what have you done in the way of explaining the test results to school folks so far? Have you requested an evaluation in writing? They have a legal "child find" obligation that requires them to FIND children with disabilities. Even if you provide them the outside report (recommended) they will have to do their own evaluation to determine "educational impact." The book From Emotions to Advocacy is a great primer on how to make these requests.

There is so much going on there I'd be surprised if he didn't qualify for some help.

We have also found it very useful to talk to an educational advocate. It is so hard for a parent to be up to speed on all the legal niceties at first-- much easier to hire out that piece, and have someone at the meetings who has your child's back.

DeeDee

Oh how I wish I had a great answer for this! I can share what we are doing now that DS7 is working with me in home schooling...

First I started verbalizing a new expectation. Academics are all well above grade-level so I know I can set a different type of goal. I told him that there was only ONE thing I wanted to teach him this year: how to look for solutions to a challenge rather than give up or shut down. (I am not so focused on his competency in a thing as I am in his ability to try.)

Then I started introducing things that I knew would challenge him but that I believed he was able to complete. Frankly that has been very trying and exhausting for me. He has put up all manner of protest and complaint. It's been ugly. That made me realize that a classroom teacher would probably never have gotten through it. He truly had never been taught anything and he tried to avoid it at all costs. I keep reminding him of my one goal for this year.

When we hit a wall, I am walking him through if it is a visual issue, a fine motor issue, a lack of information issue, etc. until we figure out (together) what the barrier is and how to solve it. I am learning tremendously about his issues and what works and what he needs as we work through this. He is also learning to advocate for what he needs to complete a task.

Ironically after getting through one of these challenges he talks about how much he LOVES that subject and learning new things.... only moments earlier I heard, "I can't do it I can't do it I can't do it!! I'm just shutting down! This is too hard for me...."

We are a work in progress over here but I am seeing progress... and it truly has to be the most important thing my son could learn this year. I think it's the key that opens up his potential in all directions.

I know home school isn't the right choice for everyone but somehow, someway finding a patient person to wrestle through the "too hard" seems to be one solution to getting past it. This 2e stuff with such smart and challenged children is really tough and really exhausting. I get downright discouraged too... but then we get another day and I realize that good or bad, each day I'm learning to do this better and find/give/help/explain/advocate more effectively because of it.

But on the bad days, I find ways to grieve or get angry. I give my son a hug. I talk to a friend or post here. I pray about it and I take time to take care of myself. I hope you can do that tonight. You have been through and learned so much in the last year and the challenge of that can really wear someone out.

I have only had informal discussions so far. We are still waiting on the report.

This is a very small private school and there are a lot of really nice things about it. It is near us, it is affordable, it has a 1st-8th mixed class for next year, they do weekly French, cooking, yoga, art and music. The people are nice and DS likes to go there.

We would really like it to work. The down side is that there is no special education coordinator or gifted coordinator or school psychologist to put any of this in perspective or offer suggestions. It is a group of nice teachers that started a school over thirty years ago because they thought they could make a better school.

I am hoping the report explains it all in a way that doesn't lead them to conclude "All kids have strengths and weaknesses. He just needs to try harder to work through his weaknesses"

Our plan is to accommodate at school and remediate with an OT and outside tutors.

Thanks HappilyMom, I was typing while you posted.

DeeDee, the way I understand his scores are that he has enough of a spread to qualify for accommodations but the lows are just above the levels for special services.

KJP, they shouldn't be determining need by scores alone-- there should be observation and collaboration by the whole team to determine need.

At a private, obviously, they don't *have* to do anything to help. I would probably look into getting an eval through the public schools; sometimes you can get services through them even if you have no plans to use their school for instruction.

During the phase where our school wouldn't help us, we remediated privately, and I wasn't sorry that we expended that effort. But IMO it's better to have help/remediation throughout the day if you can get it.

DeeDee

Okay. I will look into it when I get the report.

I also wanted to clarify my comment earlier in the thread about being on grade level not being "good enough". I don't mean that I won't be happy with his education until he is at the top of his group. I just meant that under the circumstances, being at the same level as the other kids is a red flag.

Based on my experience you are absolutely correct. It was a huge fight to get DD tested because she was operating on grade level. After testing, the summer between K and 1st, we were told straight out that with her comprehension strengths performing anywhere below 4th grade level was indicative of learning disabilities. And boy oh boy does she have learning disabilities! People who get 2e will understand this. People who don't will likely be dismissive and try to paint you as the overbearing mother who wants her little snowflake to seem special. Don't let them get to you. Come here whenever you need and we will remind you.

Did you go to Norolog for 2e diagnosis.I anttended a meeting in my son school(he is firstgrader).There were three teachers include his teacher, two distric board members, school conselor,princinle. I feel soffocated.they said to me he is so smart his reading level is 5th grade level and his comprehension level beyond that. .His knowledge amazing but howcome He is like that in the classroom. He is not listening,he doesnt have any friends,he even doesnt try to have one. He is not writing anything. He is using pencils just play with them. He is making fisss fisss sounds when he is playing and annoy every body. So they want me to send my son to norolog. I dont have any idea what he or she will do my son there.













h

You may be asking about a neurologist or neuropsychologist? Very simply put, they will generally engage the child in tests (somewhat similar to IQ tests) to determine if there are vast differences in how your child's brain processes. They may then recommend interventions such as curriculum modifications, classroom accommodations, and/or medications to help your child. There is a good article here: http://giftedissues.davidsongifted....search_article_on_2e_gif.html#Post172507

My son went to the Neurolearning Clinic in Edmonds, WA.

Xsantos, feeling bullied seems to be normal for the type of meeting you described. We are in a different situation in that my son's school does not see him as being particularly exceptional. The skills that correlate to the 99+% subtests are recognized (vocabulary, similarities and oral expression), but since the skills don't enhance any work at school, at this point the result is "Yeah, that is great but we'd really like to see him do worksheets with less hassle"