So, my kid was tested at school for reading levels, writing and math capabilities. He is 2 grades ahead for reading (he is in K currently, testing around 3rd grade). The tester said she stopped because he did not answer one question in a book he was asked to read. She knows he can read everything (her words). Math -- he did great, demonstrated his mental math abilities and did everything they asked him to do. Writing is his "weak" area -- he can write sentences and such, but it takes him a super long time to write -- almost an hour to come up with 4-5 sentences and then write them down. The tester said he talks about what he wants to write for 25-30 minutes and then sort of fine tunes it in his mind and then finally writes it.

There have also been concerns about ADD, and the child needing repeated reminders (especially, for fine motor skills tasks like writing). We'll definitely consult a psychologist and see what they say/think as well.

However, my child has been saying (as a matter of fact) that he learns at home, and does not learn (as much) at school. This came up, because I asked him whether he is sad that school will be over soon, and he emphatically said that he is glad about it, and that he will have a chance to just read and learn whatever he wants. I do know, though, he learns at school (the social things, getting along with others, music, art, things of that nature). With this year drawing to a close, and next year coming up (1st grade), do you think it is advisable to approach the school staff to see if any differentiation can be provided because he does not fit in K (or 1st grade) (especially because the school staff thinks he is ADD)?

My child is happy at school. He is basically a happy child anywhere, he does not act out, but "is in trouble for not finishing work" (usually coloring). He is also extremely inquisitive, and sometimes, I think the school staff is tired of answering his various "why/how does..." questions.

Please advise.

I would DEFINITELY meet with the principal! Express concerns and thoughts, suggest what you would like to see, and find out what can be done.

FYI- I'm just coming from a "good" meeting with our principal.

Good luck! Keep us posted! (I was given the impression that since the school knows child more and child knows "school" now, differentiation is much better.)

It is totally normal and typical for an intelligent child to find maths and reading easy, and still struggle with writing, and it is certainly not an indication of any kind of "condition".

it's interesting that mental self-editing can be considered a "weak point." it sounds like he's really doing 2 (fabulous) things at once there - he's clearly on-task, brainstorming his ideas, and then on top of that, he's honing/selecting the ideas to produce quality work. frankly, that is a much more advanced process than simply writing down the first thing that comes to mind. so regardless of any other possible issues... i think major congratulations are in order! (at least from me!)

Sounds exactly like my DS at that age. I'd keep an eye on the writing, but I wouldn't be alarmed. My son constantly got in trouble for not finishing his work and for his slow writing. I think a lot of the problem was because he found the writing prompts too simplistic. For example, he once responded to a writing prompt with "anyone who read this book should be able to answer this question...it requires no thought whatsoever." His teacher wasn't pleased but I could understand why he didn't want to write several paragraphs on Judy Moody when he was reading Harry Potter at home.

By the way, he is a wonderful writer now. And while he still prefers to formulate a near perfect product in his mind first, he has learned how to put his thoughts down more quickly and rely on the the editing process to flesh them out.

I'd suggest a neuropsych eval based on what you wrote here and in your intro thread. The reasons I'd choose a neuropsych over a regular psych are:

1) The school is concerned about ADHD - and if you can get private data now showing ADHD or not - that will help you by either leading you in the direction you need to go to help your ds where he needs help, or will give you the report to back you up when ADHD is suggested again and shut down that conversation quickly.

2) You've got achievement testing now but still don't have ability testing - that will be part of a neuropsych eval, and it will most likely be helpful in advocating for gifted services if you decide at some point to transfer to a different school. JMO, but I think the ability testing would be helpful to you in the situation you're in at now with your ds' school - your previous intro post was titled something like "gifted or pushed" and you'd mentioned the school seemed to think you were pushing your ds. Having an actual IQ score will help you counter that type of reasoning.

3) The neuropsych, if they are local to you, may have valuable insight re which local schools would work well for your ds.

4) While I agree with the previous poster who mentioned getting thoughts into writing can lag behind other academic skills, particularly at this age, I'd still want a little more clarity on why the writing is lagging. You have one tester's observations and opinions. Does it match what you see? Have you had any measure of your ds' handwriting speed relative to same-age peers? Is he doing ok with punctuation, not reversing letters, etc? Is his handwriting relatively neat and legible or is it all over the place? Has he learned how to tie his shoes yet? How is he doing in school when given a writing or story telling task? How is he doing when given a fine motor task? A neuropsych will be able to tell you if there is something to be concerned about. Chances are there isn't, but otoh, if there is - it's better to catch it earlier than to have it be an issue that holds him back from accelerated placement.

I'm also wondering - has the school staff mentioned anything else other than fine motor and having to prompt him to keep him on task as reasons they suspect ADHD? What's your gut feeling re ADHD - do you see signs of it at home or in other situations?

Best wishes,

polarbear

Thanks, everyone
Polarbear, I am not sure what the thread "Gifted or Pushed" was all about -- I don't think that was my intro thread. Regardless, I agree with doing the neuropsych eval. I am just not sure when we will actually be able to get in, unlike a regular psychologist for ruling out/ruling in ADHD.


Yes, he is doing good with punctuation, not reversing letters, handwriting is pretty neat and legible. By speed, the tester is referring to him completing the task once it is given. He takes a long time to complete it. The tester said that once he knows or determines what to write, he writes it pretty soon. His writing also is pretty logical and stays on topic. He is okay with other fine motor tasks -- I would say average. I haven't had a chance to compare handwriting speeds, but I have compared handwriting or just writing quality, and I think my kid is pretty good, compared to his peers. The tester also said that the quality of his writing is good, and that he is a natural speller.


The staff has mentioned that he has problems transitioning from one task to another -- i.e., takes him a long time to pack away his supplies and pick up his lunchbag (that sort of thing). If he is ADHD -- I think he may fall under ADHD - inattentive.

I keep wondering if I have to ask for some sort of differentiation for 1st grade.

True. And when I asked my child, he said the same thing too -- not in as much words, but he said he would rather think and write, rather than write something like "I went to the park. I played. I had fun" (which seems to be the sort of writing expected at K level). I am very confused, because my son is able to verbalize why he is doing what he is doing. Yet, I understand that any teacher or tester does not have unlimited time, and just want to get the job/task done.


It is not that he dislikes writing, just that he thinks and writes, and takes a long time.


I will try this. Thanks again, everyone. I just worry, because I am not sure what the norm is, and this is a child who did not start coloring in the lines till age 4.5 (which was a super big deal at preschool). If there are issues with writing, I would much rather know now, than later.

Mom2one- I am no expert, but I think that a child can be gifted AND have issues with writing output. I will say that maybe getting a neuropsych eval will help you get your questions answered. Then, you can go to the school with those results. Good luck!

Oh yes.

DD was significantly ahead in receptive language and reading, as well as math, fine motor... omgosh, the list goes on. It seemed like there was nothing she couldn't do that was really ahead of her peers (except for the fact that she spoke late).

Anyhoo. She wrote her first book at four. Awesome, right? She cut the pages, lined them up, stapled them together, drew the illustrations and then wrote all the text. Everything was advanced... except for her written output.

She wrote one sentence per page (which is still good fine motor for four), but the thing was her choice of words: "when you want a cat" ...was page one. Then page two read: "you get a cat." Page 3: "you ask mom and dad" page 4: "for a cat"

At the time I still thought it was neat, because what typical four year old does that... until I looked at it again more critically and realized that the language use, choice of words, was below age level. In contrast with her other above age level skills, this was quite a deficit.

Sure enough, now in grade 5, the issue still plagues her. She struggles to express herself in writing. (My DS has the same issue).

I'm sorry if I confused posts - I tried looking back to see what you'd written previously, and found a thread where I thought you'd mentioned your school had questioned whether or not your ds was gifted or simply had a helicopterish pushy parent. I may have gotten posting parents mixed up!


It usually takes several months (here at least) to get an appointment with a neuropsych, but fwiw, I'd say the wait is worth it. I will admit to personal bias on this, based on personal experience, but fwiw, I've had two of my children who either teachers or peds or other people thought had ADHD, and to be honest, I am fairly certain that I could have managed to get an ADHD diagnosis for both of them through a regular psychologist (I know for certain that one psych would have diagnosed my ds and our ped was convinced my dd has ADHD). Neither has ADHD, and their neuropsych evals were instrumental in helping us see and understand that. Had they been diagnosed for ADHD, they likely would have been recommended to go on meds, and I'm not sure that it would have been as easy to tease out what was really up from a neuropsych eval once they were on meds. Please note - I absolutely am not saying that children who have ADHD shouldn't be diagnosed and shouldn't have access to meds - it's just been my experience, *where I live* that ADHD is often the first thought that comes to mind when a child is struggling. It's also been my experience that regular psychs don't step back and recommend a neuropsych eval when they don't have all the answers.


It sounds like handwriting isn't an issue, but getting his thoughts out *might* be. Perhaps it isn't - chances are he's simply taking his time and thinking through exactly what he wants to say and how he wants to organize it. The flip side of that is, is it taking him longer than anticipated to organize his thoughts and figure out how to get them onto paper? This can be (not saying it is) but it can be a symptom of an expressive language disorder, and it can be very confusing because a child who is extremely verbal and highly capable of expressing himself when he talks can, at the same time, have difficulty getting those thoughts out on paper.

He is okay with other fine motor tasks -- I would say average.


My ds had these same difficulties in early elementary school, and it looked like ADHD to his teachers, but it was due to Developmental Coordination Disorder. Not something that was obvious at all, and quite likely not something that is an issue for your ds. But - fwiw, I wouldn't automatically attribute those behaviors to ADHD, and that's why I so strongly believe the neuropsych eval is important. I also think that we often hear teachers attributing behaviors like this to ADHD because ADHD is more common than things like DCD and therefore they are familiar with ADHD - so it's the thought that comes to mind first.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Polarbear, thanks.


I agree with this. Which is why I waffle on getting a diagnosis. I plan to bring up all these questions to the psychologist and hope he/she answers them.


I actually keep thinking about this. He is not exactly un-coordinated, but it takes a lot of effort for him to hop (one foot is better than the other). Or zip his jackets (he finally got it on his own, but later than I would have liked to see). He also seems to have difficulty doing the steps -- like he is about (50% of the time) lagging behind a physical movement class by a minute. So, I wonder about this a lot.

Hi

Just a thought, the way you described some of the ADHD feedback from school sounded like it could be a motor planning issue that an OT can evaluate.