We were invited to join in the special ed class today where DS4 would most likely start going soon and after that almost 2 hour visit, I am more confused and scared than ever before . I thought the 2.5 hrs/day preschool would be our answer to getting him ready for K next year, given it's a small group (10 kids) with a teacher, teacher's aid, and OT and ST coming in to work with kids individually. But seeing my son there today, I just feel more lost. The first half was ok for him because it was mostly free play and he could go from one station to another and just explore, so of course he LOVED it, didn't care for the other kids, would stand away from them (which is one of our ongoing concerns) but had fun ... but then they moved to little table time, drawing pictures, etc. and he started getting anxious, but still handled it ok (other than a meltdown over not getting a marker and only getting a crayon ... and then when he got a crayon, he had a meltdown over having marker on his fingers! lol) ... but then the last 20 minutes or so were sit down story time and that's when he started getting out of hands, climbing the chairs, trying to run away, looking out the window, trying to do headstands on the chair, then tried to join in the conversation about the book (Thomas ABC book) but the teacher and the kids were learning the letters in the book and reading it, while DS4 wanted to tell them the story (which he totally made up), while the other kids didn't understand why was this strange boy talking when he's supposed to be quiet and listen he was upset that nobody cared ...

basically, in the second half of the class ... the "structured" time, he was bored out of his mind. I'm 100% sure he'd be sitting quietly and listening had it been circle time showing him how to do some sort of scientific experiment ... but an ABC Thomas book certainly wasn't gonna cut it.

I know I need to stick with it now, send him to preschool and see how he does ... maybe he'll surprise me and will adjust well. But my gut feeling is telling me otherwise. I got to see very clearly today that BIG part (not all but a lot) of his issue will be caused by pure boredom and only a small part will be related to his sensory and pdd-nos issues. He would absolutely thrive if I could throw at him new exciting information he could absorb every 5 minutes ... but I just don't see how this will do it for him. I'm not expecting him to learn anything ... I need him to learn the social interaction he has huge problems with ... but I'm still not convinced this is going to work once we are passed the first two or three weeks when it will be all old news to him.

I DID like the teachers, I liked the school and the classrooms ... I'm just sure I like the "system"

I didn't send my kids to preschool. I figured Kinder was soon enough. We spent that extra year together doing all sorts of things from adventures hiking and discovering leaves and animal tracks and trying to identify them to going to hands-on museums to story time at the library (hint - they don't care if your kid is WAY younger and in the wrong age group's story time as long as they aren't disruptive).

If he's there for the social interaction, can he bring things from home to do that interest him or does he have to do what they are doing?

It's so tough - the fit isn't there even when they're young, and it doesn't get better sometimes until they're a lot older.

it's a school district special education preschool that works with "at risk" kids and they have to follow the rules. We want to give it a shot because we know Kindergarten will be a lot tougher on him if he doesn't get used to the little rules and larger number of kids around him early on. On one hand he loves to be with kids, on the other hand, if it's more than 6 he just plays by himself somewhere where he can just be to himself without much distraction. He will be expected to follow directions, do circle time and all that when he goes to K and I was hoping we could slowly ease him into it this way.

oh, and we've tried story time both at a play gym we go to (he ran out of that one covering his ears screaming that it was too loud) ... and when we went to the library story time he was nervously standing in the doorway (which was still a progress) but 5 minutes later DS2 started screaming and we ran out! lol ... this was the second time. The first time We didn't even last 1 minute. ... going back for a 3rd try next Monday

Hmmm...I think whether or not you're going to try public K next year may influence hour decision. If so, he will need to be able to participate in circle time and (at least from our experience thus far) engage in "busy work" that is very basic at times during class.

Maybe this class, with it's high staff yo child ratio will be an easier place to transition to some of these skills. I think you may be seeing boredom, but the leaving/wandering could also be the PDD. He may not be motivated by the same "need to please" that keeps a restless/disengaged kid in their seat.

My thought is to formulate a clear plan for prevention/intervention. Maybe you could offer some level-appropriate worksheets /books for working time. Also, I think it would be fair to let ds wander the class (within reason, maybe provide an alternative activity) I itisllyfuring circle time. This may be the goal for the whole year: ds tolerating and even participating circle time.

Not sure if any of this helps or not....We did preschool for social reasons (though they actually did a lot of neat science stuff). My ds doesn't have pdd or ASD...but is definitely needed (needs) help with social maturity) .

I was really hoping to see more kids with similar "issues" when we went in yesterday so I would get an idea of the accommodations for these kids, but DS4 seemed to be the only kid not following the crowd.

I wonder if the specific options that he'd have should be spelled out in his IEP?

I was originally told that these groups are around 6-8 children but 10 or more, which would be his case is already an overwhelming number for him. But that's why I have to keep reminding myself that he needs it now before the numbers double in K . Fortunately Kindergarten here is only half day, so it shouldn't be that huge of a difference but they will expect him to act more maturely.

As for the boredom, I am pretty sure what I saw was boredom. Unless he's engaged in something that really interests him or something of his choosing, he needs new activities coming at him every 5 or 10 minutes. Then he's done and needs to move onto the next one. So asking him to sit for 20 minutes while talking about one little book was pure torture! lol

My son with autism (not PDD-NOS) had similar problems in the special ed preschool. He started there at age 3 and we received frequent calls asking us to come get him because he wouldn't come out from under the table, etc. He did NOT do well in "circle time" at all. Luckily, a spot opened for him in an autism school where all the teachers knew exactly what to do to help kids learn how to deal with things like "circle time" instead of having the sink-or-swim attitude that the special ed preschool had.

I agree that your child needs a preschool to get prepared for kindergarten, but it is going to be a big adjustment no matter what. To expect a wiggly kid to sit still, even for 20 minutes, is asking a LOT!

My son was only in the autism school for a year and a half...then he went to a regular preschool that was very academic-based and structured. (They still had periods of the dreaded circle time though.) For him, the more structured activities, the better!

Kate

Absolutely I would put specific interventions in his IEP. That's what protects him from a teacher's errant whim. My thought would be get that plan in place before starting the whoke time. Until then, maybe he could visit during the first half and leave at circle time? You never know what's going on with the other kids...they may have struggles that just present differently.

Surely others with more experience in these matters will also chime in, but two things in your last post stood out for me.


I see this as a good thing! Either this is a sign that the preschool is doing its job in teaching the kids how to act or these kids then can serve as a model for your son.



20 minutes is a goal to work towards, and is tough for many 4 year olds. So he starts with a 5 minute tolerance. That's something to build upon, right? Hopefully the right environment will get him there.

Good luck with the new school!

I think our big problem is he looks and acts perfectly normal ... until something throws him off. And it's hard to convince people sometimes that he does have problems. I asked the two teachers yesterday about how they handle tantrums and things like that ... and mentioned he has huge sensory problems (which weren't apparent yesterday because he loves everything NEW so the newness of the environment trumped the sense :)) and they pretty much brushed it off with "oh, most of the kids are like that" ... and other than two boys who clearly had sensory problems there I saw a bunch of little sheep following the leader.

I do have a preference for one of the two classes but I don't think they will give me a choice in the matter. They'll probably just place him in one. But I told them, which one I think he would do better in. In the first class some of the boys were too loud and I know he would end up running around with his ears covered all out of sorts. The other class seemed more diverse with kids with a wider variety of diagnoses but overall the place was calmer, the room not as crazy (the first one was way overboard with color, decorations, the whole set up ... just a nightmare for a kid with SPD!) ... yes, it is the room where he had his meltdowns yesterday but I still believe that one would work better.

... and he absolutely LOVED it in the end when he managed to ran away from us and we didn't catch up with him till he was right by the exit door! I just looked at the speech therapist that went with us and told her ... and THIS is something he will try to do on a regular basis. He's not scared of running, walking away, going to a complete stranger ... I'm scared if they ever even get near the exit door as a whole class, he'll just take off! They have a school bus that picks up all these little kids but I don't think I have the nerves for now to put him on. He remembers all the safety rules, will tell you what to do when and where ... but will not act on it ... but I guess that is a whole another issue we'll have to address with the school.

I did wonder about if the school has been so efficient in getting the kids to follow the rules in just the few weeks since the beginning of the class? But then I was also thinking ... Could they really manage in 6 weeks what therapists and family has not been able to do in 3 years? But you might be right. I hope!

Indepedent of other factors, I'd imagine many gifted kids just aren't sheep. We didn't have a special ed school, but DS had all the behaviors that you mentioned in pre-school. I think they'll happen in any context when the kid is wired that way. Biggest things we looked for were if the school was tolerant and supportive of his unique ways. Sometimes he would sit with the group, follow directions, etc. when he didn't, as long as he was safe they allowed him to drift and used gentle redirection.

I think I may have to stress to the school that our main reason why we are putting him in (after fighting a lot to even get the spot) is to learn social interaction. To not shy away from the kids when there are too many ... and to be able to join in rather than do everything else to be able to stay away from them. He has this huge drive to be WITH kids, yet he only really needs to be next to them. Unless they are completely into what he's doing and he can explain it to them and have them follow him, he has zero interest in what the other kids are doing.

There is another class that's a morning class at another school in our district where our friends' daughter goes and as much as at first I did NOT want them together for many reasons, now I'm wondering if DS being in the class with his "friend" would help him learn the rules and learn some following? She has been in that class for about 6 months so has the ins and outs down pretty well.

Agree with Geofizz here. You can't expect all the kids in a special needs preschool to have your son's blend of autism and giftedness (that combination is rare). Most will have other challenges they are working on. It's great that they will serve as peer models for the skills he needs to learn.


20 minutes is a lot. It's also what they did in our kindergarten for circle time, so it's the standard that needs to be reached.

For a bright kid with autism, the skill of checking in mentally and getting interested in something not of his choosing is a hard one. That skill can be learned, and should be learned. It is absolutely a key, not only for school success, but also for employability. (Imagine an adult who will only do work tasks that interest him... that won't go well.)

Over time a person can learn to be more flexible and develop new interests.


Probably not in 6 weeks. It takes a long time to remediate these social deficits. But I think putting him in an environment where he can practice the skills of tuning in, following instructions, and sitting still is very much worth doing.

They will probably want to rewrite the IEP after they get to know him a little. You can work with them to make a plan that fits what he needs to learn. Remember that while he will be more interested in differentiated materials, they may not be the thing that will help him engage in group instruction, which is the point of his participation there. Some daily work on learning to tolerate boredom is okay.

If he were mine, I would absolutely not want him to learn that he's exempt from instructions and can drift around the classroom away from what other people are doing; that would be a step back. He should be rewarded positively for keeping his head in the game, so that he learns to feel that it's worthwhile to engage with others, both in formal instruction and infomal play.

DeeDee

One big problem he has with Story time ... he's scared. He's gotten extremely sensitive to stories, he can't watch many of the shows on PBS because he starts screaming that he's scared and jumps and hide behind the couch.

on Monday at the story time in the library, they were reading some simple kids book that had a picture of grass growing and the roots and all that and he ran out saying it scares him. Yesterday during the school story time, again he was scared of the Thomas book story line and I think that's why he wanted to make up his own story that he wouldn't be afraid of.

So maybe when he outgrows this fearful stage, it will be easier for him to focus on the circle time? I just hope it doesn't take him as me! I used to hide behind the couch watching kids shows till I was about 10! Even now watching movies with my husband I put my hand in front of my eyes and watch between two fingers! ... Maybe that's a strategy I should teach my son???

What does he think of being with his "friend"? Maybe you could do a visit there and see if the environment is different there and also observe any changes in ds with knowing a child in class.

I agree with Zen Scanner...I think you're looking for a difficult-to-find balance of flexibility with an encouragement to be plugged in to what the class is doing and follow someone else's agenda (the teacher's).

It may be too much to expect more than parallel play for him right now...but I do think there is great value in gently challenging his 'zen' - since you know that he will be challenged increasingly as he gets older.

I think there's also merit in having someone else do the challenging...sometimes kids are more receptive to this than with their own parents.