I am curious what advice seasoned parents would give regarding this situation. My son is almost five. Despite having a really high IQ score, he can't sound out most words, struggles to write his name and in general gets letter sounds all mixed up. We do a phonics app together and he always gets p,d,b,q mixed up and u and n mixed up. He read "bye, bye" as "pye, pye" yesterday.
His subtests were fairly even (I remember block design being the highest), he sees an OT for sensory issues, and we have been doing some HWT (it has not been without tears for us, by the way).
I made a similar post a few months ago about scores not adding up with ability. Several people mentioned that they had high scoring kids who didn't read early. I am just a little more concerned now because he seems like he is trying and something isn't clicking.
Also, my FIL is an outrageously successful 2E dyslexic (and proud of it!). He definitely sees his dyslexia has giving him an edge in his area of expertise but remembers struggling in elementary school.
Perhaps, it is my kindergarten jitters. I just don't want to see him struggle for years if there is something we could do to help earlier.
My current plan would just be to wait a year or two and see how things progress. For those of you who have dealt with these concerns, what would you do?

It's normal for it not to be clicking at this age. There's a reason that historically kids weren't taught to read until age 6 (don't get me started on recent trends), and in some high-literacy European countries they aren't taught to read until age 8 or 9. There's a maturational thing that has to happen in a brain before the visual/attentional system can figure out what to do with all those little loop-de-loops on the page. Age 4 is simply too young to be deciding it's dyslexia. More likely, he simply isn't reading-ready yet.

I think we parents of gifties tend to freak ourselves out a little about things like this. We're so used to our kids being way out ahead of the curve that them being merely normal in some area looks really weird to us.

My own 4-year-old is on track to have a larger vocabulary than her kindergarten teacher (I exaggerate only slightly), but she is hopeless when it comes to small-scale spatial stuff like puzzles, and she's showing no signs of being an early reader. I periodically have to remind myself not to worry. Her visuo-spatial skills aren't behind, they're normal.

I agree. But I would also advise to read
The Dyslexic Advantage: Unlocking the Hidden Potential of the Dyslexic Brain
so you can understand FIL better.

I know that Dyslexia isn't generally a visual problem, but it sure is worth it to check his visual system, both with a standard Optometrist, and a Behavioral Optometrist. It took a bit of extra time for my son's visual system control to mature, and his reading just didn't click in until late kindy/early first - in spite of knowing the letters and letter sounds at age 2! I sure wish I had had a place to post about that way back then - it was scary.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

From the other perspective let me just say that we also picked up on things early and were told over and over that DD was soooo far ahead of the curve that things that were age appropriate just appeared to be deficits. In our case, though, it turned out that they appeared to be deficits because they WERE deficits. I can't help but wonder if things would be easier for DD now if we had been able to convince people to follow through on our concerns when we initially brought them up.

I hope your teacher and school will be more responsive than ours if you continue to have concerns. We were told repeatedly that they would not even consider her for testing. "She'd never qualify - she's too smart." It was only after they tried to require that she attend summer school because she was reading below K level that we were able to get her tested. Luckily she was identified that summer between kindergarten and first grade. Still considered early to be identified but I look at as losing 2 years since we initially started asking about dyslexia when she was 4.

So he may be just fine - hopefully he is. I would not wait a year or 2 if your concerns continue, though. Things may start to click for him once kindy gets underway. Mine also has a larger vocabulary than many of her teachers and is hopeless with puzzles. She, though, has a fine motor and visuo-spatial issue along with the reading stuff. We have a second neuropsych eval scheduled next week so I am assuming we will finally get the formal diagnoses of dyslexia and dysgraphia - a bit more complicated than having just one or the other I think.

Good luck and try not to stress. Stay observant and ask questions but don't freak yourself out if you can help it.

I'm another 2E mom who will encourage you to get testing and intervention immediately-- BEFORE it becomes an issue. Early intervention for dyslexia can make a world of difference. It's very likely your son has it considering the writing and reading issues you describe, but most especially combined with the fact that his grandfather has it-- there's a genetic component. While neither my husband nor I have it, it turns out his uncle does. I don't believe intervention will take away his dyslexia, but it will give him tools to mitigate the problem.

My son with dyslexia is a twin. He never had trouble with letters or letter sounds, but he just could not sound out. His DYS twin learned to read at 3. I started to wonder about a reading issue at 4 because the boys are so similar otherwise, but I realized it's ridiculous to worry about dyslexia in a 4 yo. At 5, he told his K teacher he was worried he'd never learn to read, which she ignored. He made very little reading progress in K, but she said it just clicks later for some kids and she admonished me not to compare him to his obviously brilliant twin. This went on for 2 more years. So at that point I had suspected for 3 years there was an issue, and teachers were telling me there wasn't. Sadly, I wasn't informed enough to do something about it. I wish someone had grabbed me by the shoulders when he was entering K and said "GET HIM TESTED." So, that's my story. You have nothing to lose by getting him tested, but he has a lot to lose if he has dyslexia and isn't taught in the way he needs to learn.

ETA:
I also wanted to add that my son had the same writing issues you describe. Writing was and continues to be torturous to him. His name starts with a "J," and he still reversed that letter up until 2nd grade-- on his own name!! The woman who diagnosed him said that it was his writing that made the dyslexia most obvious to her.

I also want to mention another reason why it's important that your son read at the level of his IQ-- my son with dyslexia missed about 5 years of reading time and practice compared to his twin without dyslexia (ages 3-8). His twin devours books and spends almost 2 hours a night reading magazines, encyclopedia-type books and novels, and that began well before age 5. That is a LOT of information going into a developing brain that my dyslexic twin didn't have. We did read to him a lot, but we have 3 kids, so I couldn't just sit on his bed and read for an hour (although he would have liked that). He's a good reader now, but has decided he doesn't like reading. I really wish we could have prevented that.

Ditto to Pemberley's experience. 4-5 is a *tough* age because it's true that developmentally, the things you've mentioned may be right where a child is supposed to be - or they may be signs of a potential learning challenge, and it's really too soon for a teacher etc to know for sure just from academic performance. There are two red flags for me in what the OP wrote: 1) you're worried - I tend to trust a mom's instinct, and... 2) your child has a close relative with dyslexia. Dyslexia and related LDs may cluster in families. I'd also look for emotional clues in your ds - does he do his schoolwork happily or does he fight it, get frustrated etc.

FWIW, our ds has severe dysgraphia and many of the symptoms of stealth dyslexia as defined by the Eides. He also was doing everything you mentioned above that your own ds is doing - at almost 5. When he started talking, there was no doubt he was amazingly intelligent - the kind of intelligent that had adults' jaws dropping when he spoke. He went to a Montessori preschool for several years - and never chose any of the work that involved writing/learning letters etc. We tried teaching him the alphabet at home and he wasn't interested. In the meantime he was building amazing Lego structures, drawing incredibly detailed art, creating amazing tiny and detailed clay models, and talking like an adult. He loved loved loved having us read him huge books, but he wasn't interested in learning to read. We kept thinking he was a quirky smart kid (and he is lol). Then he got to kindergarten and he didn't write much. When he did write he reversed those letters you mention. This is a brief synopsis of my conversations with his first three years of elementary school:

K: "Should we correct him when he reverses his bs and ds?" Teacher: "No, it's developmentally appropriate. All the kids do this at this age."

1st: "Should he still be reversing his bs and ds?" Teacher: "Don't worry! It's completely developmentally appropriate. Lots of kids still do this at this age. We don't worry about that until 2nd grade."

2nd, beginning of year: "It seems like he is still reversing his bs and ds, and we thought he wouldn't be doing that by now." Teacher: "It's not unusual to still be reversing b and d in 2nd grade. We don't worry about that until 3rd grade."

2nd, spring of second semester: Our conversations with the teacher were over, ds was having panic attacks at school and at home, and his world was imploding on him.

These were a few of the other things we heard from teachers along the way:

K: "You just think he's smart because he uses such big words when he talks."

2nd, beginning of year: "Your ds isn't smart. He's lazy. He's staring off into space when I am talking to the class. He won't write anything."

2nd, spring of second semester: "Your ds has ADHD. I know it, I've seen it before."

FWIW, our ds does not have ADHD. He did have severe anxiety by the end of 2nd grade due to not understanding why he was having such a hard time trying to write when all the other kids in his classes were moving ahead and he couldn't figure out how to make the letters work on paper. We saw a private neuropsych that spring semester of 2nd grade and that's when he was diagnosed. Could it have been caught in testing earlier? I can't tell you that for sure, but I know that there were two key things that showed up on earlier IQ testing that he'd been through for a gifted program that were red flags: a relatively large dip in Processing Speed (coding) vs other subtest scores, and extremely low handwriting speed observed by the person administering the test (who felt it was nothing more than perfectionism). If we'd been to a neuropsychologist at that point in time, I don't know if they could have reliably given the extra tests he received in 2nd grade and made a diagnosis, but I know they would have asked additional questions which would have been enlightening and we'd never given a thought to: questions about early development (when did ds start crawling/walking/talking) etc. Other questions I can't remember right now too! One question for sure - did we have relatives with dyslexia or learning challenges (we do).

My two dds have also both struggled learning to read - for different reasons. One had severe double vision, the other has a deficit in associative memory. Neither one of those were things that were in any way obvious to us until they both entered school and started learning to read and it came slowly *as well as* started writing and we saw things like letter reversals etc.

So clearly I fall in the camp of - it can't hurt to look into it. You have a worry and you have a family history of dyslexia. You might have your ds tested and find out he's right on track developmentally and there is nothing to worry about and you know what? That is powerful information in and of itself - you'll know you don't have to wonder or worry! OTOH, if he is dyslexic or has a related challenge, you'll be able to start now with remediation and accommodation, and trust me, you'll be glad you knew early. Even if it hadn't helped at all with academics, if we'd only known in kindergarten that our ds is dysgraphic it would have relieved so much worry and anxiety in *his* life that we just didn't realize was there.

Best wishes,

polarbear

ps - syoblrig was posting at the same time I was, so I didn't see the post until I'd posted, but... fwiw... if I'd seen it I would have said "ditto" to everything there too!

pps -I realized when I re-read all of this it probably sounds dismal and scary - and it's not! My ds is going into 7th grade this year and he's doing *great* in school.

I avoided addressing the developmental issues that did not mesh with what we saw intellectually because they still fell wi thin normal developmental guidelines. I also wonder if my son wouldn't be struggling so hard if we had fought for earlier intervention.

Trust your gut.

Yes!! I've said over and over to friends and family "I just don't know what normal is." For example, DS8 was 24 months when he mastered the alphabet, which thanks to DD9 (16 months) made me think he was delayed. Good grief.

I think most/many G&T kids (2E or not) have areas of "normalcy" which is... normal. Coming from a 2E perspective (DS8 ADHD) I see "normal" as a deficit, but I have to remind myself that isn't always the case.

Ditto, ditto polarbear, syoblrig and ABQMom! My DS11 was not reading at end of K (at 6yrs 3mos) and I spent the summer doing extra work through a reading class and tutors to get him up to speed. He still mixed up letters too, including, most bizarrely, p and m. He had the p/m confusion all the way through 1st grade.

Everyone kept telling me he was within normal, a late bloomer, but he was really struggling with dysgraphia. The "wait and see" approach apparently works well for a lot of kids because of the broad range of developmental "normal" but it's a terrible disservice to kids with dyslexia and dysgraphia.

I wish I had listened to my gut with DS before he was labeled a lazy underachiever who simply refused to write and spent so much time in the nurse's office with stomach pain due to school anxiety. He didn't get diagnosed until 4th grade when I had him privately tested. The school never identified him because he is bright enough to compensate well most of the time. That compensation takes quite a toll on the child though. Arrgh I still feel guilty about it.

As another mom of a HG dyslexic, I agree with all of the others who have said not to wait. I wish we had tested my DD before the end of first grade. It is amazing how quickly damage to self-esteem manifests.

I am curious if there is anyone out there with an HG kid where late reading was "perfectly normal." I think part of the problem is that school's just don't see that many three sigma kids so they don't know what is "normal" for a kid with an IQ of 145+.

I'm curious about the same thing. FWIW, I think that 2e kids with SLD (dyslexia, dysgraphia etc) are probably much rarer than we *think* they are when we're parents of them, scouring the internet for resources, and finding each other online. I haven't met any other 2e parents in "real" life - the 2e kids that I've met through our local gifted school district program are ASD, ADHD, or emotional challenges, not 2e due to learning disabilities. The gifted teachers we've met through the school district seem to not have experience with kids like our ds - but is it because they are rare or because they largely go unidentified? We had to advocate like crazy to get our ds id'd as "gifted" in our district in spite of his obviously qualifying IQ scores. We even had one teacher who was convinced our ds was below average intelligence *in spite* of having seen his IQ test scores - honestly, I think most of his teachers never believed his IQ scores when he was young because they saw the kid who couldn't write and automatically equated that with cognitive ability.

polarbear

Thanks everyone for your advice. What is the intervention strategy like for a young student with dyslexia or dysgraphia? I know from our visit with the K teacher/school director (same person) last month that they start keyboarding in K and all students are encouraged to become comfortable doing school work using computers. For example, spelling tests are given individually and I think the student chooses if they write or type. Handwriting seems to be treated like a separate subject.
I've read about some of the learning to read strategies for visual spatial learners. Are they similar for dyslexics?
Is it something our OT could help with? She works at the school too. Basically I am wondering if we could do some of the intervention strategies either at home or school without a diagnosis. Would the intervention strategy harm or confuse a non-dyslexic if it is in fact just his age?
I am not against the idea of getting an assessment for it. We just happen to live near the Eides' Neurolearning Clinic and if we get an assessment, I would like to try to go there. I think the earliest he could be seen is in March.

polarbear,
First off, what a rotten second grade teacher! She deserves an apple with a worm. Perhaps we should start another thread entitled the Wormy Apple Award and you can nominate her.
Secondly, my son sounds a lot like yours. Right down to avoiding the academic work in the Montessori preschool. He does not enjoy school work at all.
Another thing I wanted to clarify is that it is not just "b and d" and "p and q", it is all four together. He doesn't just reverse, he flips too. Hence the "u and n". His favorite letter is "o". He says he likes it because it is easy to write and it is always the same.
He had a vision screening with a pediatric optometrist recently and there were not any issues.

I think signing up for the Eidies would be a wise investment. How cool that they are local to you.
From reading the Eidies book, I've worked out this 'whole brain' way to get spellings into my visual working memory, which is very weak at seeing details: http://wp.me/p2tcDf-8b

Something similar might help with keeping those 'u's from rotating into 'n's.

I like the idea of a little hothousing....maybe some of the Handwritting wiithout tears preschool 3d materials like Matt Man?
Hugs
Grinity

The thing about reading and writing in kids with dyslexia is that nothing is intuitive. They don't make leaps in understanding the way they do in other subjects. So reading and writing instruction is very explicit and multi-sensory. You can look up Wilson or Orton-Gillingham. My son did Wilson.

Personally, I think there's a lot of quakery in the dyslexic intervention community, and I think if you do some reading you'll figure that out. For instance, I liked the message in "The Gift of Dyslexia," but their interventions seem like pure magical thinking. And a friend of ours went to a clinic where their dd was rolled around in blankets to cure dyslexia-- again, not something we would subscribe to.

If your son is receptive, I think you could start any kind of reading program that excplicitly teaches reading-- Hooked on Phonics, is actually a good program for really young grades. If I'd have known about that in K for my son, I would have purchased it (but I didn't know anything about dyslexia). Instead I tried other lessons and he was extremely resistant, mostly because his twin was so far past the baby-book/learning book stage, there was no way he would try easy readers.

I do think the point is to try to get him up to his ability/IQ level as soon as possible, before he might develop an aversion to reading.

Another thought: while remediation is extremely important, you might also want to balance it with some enrichment in your DS' area of strength. That may be math or science with his high block design score.

Kids don't like to work in their area of weakness all the time any more than we do as adults. This is a mistake I made with my son. His frustration level with having to work on reading and writing all the time (his two worst subjects) was very high. I think it would have been better to balance that important work with instruction and play with math and numbers which come so easily to him.

I think a key point is whether the kid seems to be progressing at a normal rate or seems stuck. That's what's striking about polarbear's story, each teacher was only looking at one slice of time and not looking at the fact that the kid had been at that same stage for years.

I too am curious, though, about what dyslexia intervention consists of, other than just really good phonics instruction.

This is what I do with my DS8. He has a language processing disorder (plus ADHD) accompanied by fine motor issues and printing/spelling issues. He's in French which makes it harder. (Interestingly he has no trouble with English reading). Anyway... we spend equal time working on his written language output in both languages as we do on his favorite subject (at which he excels and is above grade level): math.

Fyi my main reason for doing this is because I wanted him to feel good about his smarts: "You may not write or read French as well as the other kids, but you're way ahead in math." It seems to be working... he's pretty happy in school.

What an excellent thread!! I have read through all the responses and nodded my head, tearing up once or twice. I would give just about anything to be able to go in time and redo DD9's early years of school with an accurate diagnosis.

I say 'Hear, hear!' to Polarbear's post. If you are worried, DO NOT WAIT to test. Sure, it may be developmentally appropriate for kids in kindergarden to make letter reversals..... but since when have our kids ever stuck to age-related norms? We all know it. The hard part is convincing everyone else at school that they cannot use typical as a comparison to our kids in all instances.

DD9 has dysgraphia, 'stealth' dyslexia, ADHD, and anxiety. Like previous posters' children, her world fell apart in grade 2 after three years of undiagnosed learning diabilites. Her anxiety required therapy until June of this year. To hear her talk about school A.C. diagnoses, well, I'll be honest that I can't bear to listen. It kills me to know what she went through. She thought she was the stupidest person in her school. Her psychologist used to give her a pack of smarties at the end of every session to remind her that she was, in fact, the smartest person in her school. It took her two full years to get anywhere with the non-existent self-esteem.

As for rotten apple award, that rightfully belongs to the most awful human being I have ever met.... DD's primary teacher. Actually, scratch my first wish. I want to go back in time and Tonya Harding that woman in the parking lot. But, I digress.

Our DS is turning 4 in a few short weeks. He just starting seeing an OT for sensory issues and even she commented on the red flags for dysgraphia/dyslexia in his assessment. He will not colour and runs away crying when I try to play alphabet games with him. She gets it and wants to start tactile alphabet learning (using playdough, sand, etc) to pave the way for primary next year. She can see that there are going to be problems and is coming up with a plan to work on things before we even get there. There is no doubt in my mind that DS will have LDs. My sister's son has severe dysgraphia and her daughter was just diagnoses, at 9, with dyslexia and a visual processing disorder. That is 3/4 grandchildren. The odds are not in DS's favour.

I will never let DS have the experience DD did. And neither will she! She has said that the best thing about her experience is that it will keep her brother from having to go through it, too.

Good luck with everything. This forum is such an amazing resource.

I want to echo so much of what I read here - really, really good advice all around. I think it's an especially important point that the waiting which is appropriate for typical kids is really damaging to kids who actually have ld's. Early identification and intervention is key. Also it really is important to focus on their strengths while they struggle here.

For us it has been especially important to use audio books for DD's high level comprehension. Looking at her reading list for the summer is sort of amusing - very basic K/1 books for what she has read herself (i.e. book in her hands) but in terms of audio books she is about to finish the 5th Harry Potter book and start the 6th. DD has a good friend who has spent the whole summer with her nose in a book reading probably 2nd-3rd grade or higher stuff. At first it caused me some pangs of disappointment - if not for ld's I just KNOW DD would be doing the same thing. Then I realized - she is. But for her the books are audio. If she could just sit in the car all day listening to her books we would never get her away. Will the folks at her school understand that? I don't know. I *think* for them reading level will be limited to what she can actually decode herself. At least when your child's area of strength is something like math it's tangible. You, he and the school can see the problems he's working out. Yes DD has a huge vocabulary (and she's not afraid to use it ) but many teachers just see the kid who is struggling to read and write. Oh and the anxiety - they definitely see the anxiety...

Want to say I'm about halfway through the Dyslexic Advantage book, and they've done an excellent job of making use and integrating research I've been following for years. I think the 2E/dyslexic scenario is far more common but frequently missed or misidentified.

I'd recommend the book to anyone dealing with the extreme of visual spatial abilities. Most of the visual spatial materials I've read miss many of the secondary implications that the Eides have managed to tease out through research, anecdotes, and their practice.

This makes me C-R-A-Z-Y.

Education is so language based, making it hard for the language LD kids to shine...

sigh.

I am usually a total e-book snob (only like to read books on my iPad), but your recommendation motivated me to order the book from our library.

Thanks again everyone. So this is my plan:

RIGHT NOW

Read Dyslexic Advantage - bought it last night, only $10 for Kindle version

Talk to our OT about my concerns - I was planning to talk to her about our treatment goals anyway and I'll see if she has any recommendations for home or school. Our family, the OT and the school seem to be working together well so far. If she has recommendations, I think the school will follow them.

Continue HWT

MID-OCTOBER

Talk to teacher - I am thinking 6 weeks will give her a chance to get an idea of where he is on reading and writing. I want to ask her to keep a close eye on anxiety over this type of work and on whether he improves over time. I did mention in our meeting last month that he does reversals, the testing we had done didn't test for learning disabilities like dyslexia, he has a very intelligent grandfather with dyslexia, that a LD and giftedness are possible in the same kid and that despite his extremely high scores he might not seem like other students she has seen that end up participating in the third grade gifted pull out program at the public school. She mentioned that for her students doing reversals she has them make the letters from clay for a while and it seems to help. To address his sensory need to "get away", we'd planned an area with read-along audiobooks. It read somewhere last night this might help if he has dyslexia too. She also plans to give him time to shine with advanced hands on science work, like making models. He loves giving presentations (show and tell) and making up stories/picture books so she wants to give him a chance to do this often.

JANUARY
If I still have concerns, make appointment with Eides

Feel free to make suggestions.

Because the Eides are so booked, have you considered scheduling an appointment now (for March I think you said) and canceling if you don't still need it by January? If you wait until January to schedule that puts the testing date up to or after the start of school next year. Just a thought. I don't know if the Eides have a cancellation policy that prohibits this or not though.

If it were me I would want the info from testing anyway, assuming the testing fits into your budget.

Hi, I am responding to the comment in one of the posts on this thread that their child's writing was more indicative of dyslexia to them than anything (paraphrasing). Anyway,I have posted before about being concerned my son has dyslexia or dysgraphia ... he already is diagnosed with benign congenital hypotonia (which makes writing and fine motor skills difficult for him) and, recently, he has been diagnosed with intermittent convergent strabismus, which means that his eyes are crossing and can result in dyslexia-like symptoms when reading and doing close-work. He's been getting Vision therapy and occupational therapy for the strabismus. Anyway, today he wanted to add some numbers together. He tried to write 124 plus 124 plus 90. All of the 2s and 4s were backwards - he then tried to write a 9 but realized he wrote a six but struggled b/c he couldn't figure out how the 9 goes. I told him how the 9 goes and told him his 2s and 4s were backwards and to write them over (I was cooking dinner). He writes them over and comes to show me - now he wrote his 2s and 4s the correct way but had written 421 instead of 124 and his 9 was not a 6 but was facing backwards. He will be 7 first week in September. Does this seem like dyslexia to any of you? I am waiting to get him tested on it b/c I think the vision and OT therapy needs time to 'fix' his vision problem but I am worrying all of the time and the posts on this thread really resonate. Sorry to hijack but just wondering what y'all think

marytheres, I'm on the fence with my DS6, he doesn't display some other challenges, but his extreme amblyopia leads to similar wiring problems as strabismus (I had/have both.) As he's wrapped with patching, we'll see if fine motor character formation and such improves, some of his "skip/interpretive" reading changes, and his lack of spelling/phonics vs. extreme pattern recognition vocabulary over this year.

ABQMom, hope you find it informative, too.

I'm responding from the perspective of having a daughter diagnosed with dyslexia and dysgraphia in 4th grade after asking questions since kindergarten. She didn't struggle to read, though showed no interest until kindergarten. I estimate she went from zero in October to ~4th grade level by December.

KJP, I think you have a good plan. I might add: ask if the school administers something like DIBELS or AIMSWEB, and if they do, get the results when the tests are done. These are good, first cut screening tools, but at least the teachers in our school don't really understand them.

Also, for your discussions with the teacher in mid-fall, you need to keep in mind that the party line is that reversals are normal through second grade. It's the party line because it's true. However, they should decrease through time. the likelihood you have a kindergarten teacher who would view anything as problematic with regards to reading and writing at this point is very small. Instead, I'd ask things like "does he delay getting to work on writing assignments but not other tasks?" "how much progress has be made in X?" etc.

Keep a copy of things that come home with the return date on them. Watch not for the reversals to disappear, but for them to decrease dramatically. If you do end up with the Eides or someone similar, these will be useful examples.

Another question to the 2E dyslexia parents -

In reading the Dyslexic Advantage, I learned that there is a difference between reversals (b to d) and inversions (u to n). My son does both. Even f to t and sometimes j, m to w (depending on font, plus his name starts with W so he can keep it straight a little bit better than the others) Do your dyslexic kids do this?

While it wasn't specifically stated, the way it was written, seemed to indicate that inversions were indicative of more severe dyslexia. Of course in the spirit of the book, that is seen as a possible advantage in 3D visualization.

I agree with whoever suggested keeping samples. I just glanced back at some of my DD's first grade work to answer your question. I scanned some stuff onto my computer for a meeting. It was a great reminder for me just how far she has progressed.

When printing, my DD had a lot of reversals. She had some inversions with the letters b,d,p and q. When she wrote, her brain rotated that shape every which way whenever one of those letters came up. At this point (starting 5th grade), she rarely prints. She prefers cursive because it is so much easier for her.

Her brain seems to spin things through different axes. When she talks with her hands, you can tell that she is visualizing a three dimensional figure. She can now articulate that it is difficult for her to discern two dimensional orientation. She can't distinguish left from right. We have tried all sorts of gimmicks -- you write with your right, etc -- but none of them have any meaning to her.

One other thought ... In a school system, it is often better to start chirping early since the cogs move slowly. If your concerns are documented in the official file, then if problems continue to persist, the school will be more receptive to act ... at least in theory.

I think the biggest challenge in chirping early about something that's still within age norms, but not within norms for that child, is getting anyone to believe you. The process of being thought insane and then proven correct later takes some years, and the insane part is not too much fun. But you do have to do what you think is right for your kid.

DeeDee

I so resemble that comment. It is painful but it gives one confidence in their Mom gut which is almost worth it.

So so very true - and so so very frustrating. Then after everyone finally acknowledges and realizes there is a challenge and you have a diagnosis, that's not the end - then you have to face the full gauntlet of how to deal with it, remediation, accommodation, advocacy etc. Sometimes it felt to me like a huge chunk of what should have been happy parenting years of elementary school turned into just surviving dealing with all the 2e stuff. The good news is, though, finally getting through all of that - things do get *so* much better and life does start to get back to some sorta normal (whatever "normal" was meant to be lol!).

polarbear

I don't remember the exact letters but my ds definitely reversed more than b, d, and I think he inverted u, n, and drew his h's upside down and backwards - but nothing he did was ever consistent - even in the same sentence or word. "f" was also for whatever reason *the* hardest letter in the alphabet for him to learn to recognize and identify. I still to this day wish I could see the world through his eyes because it's a bit of a puzzle to me!


There's more I'd like to add... but I need to go fix dinner - will be back later!

polarbear

OMG - I soooo know this experience. Thanks for putting it into words. When I mentioned that I thought something was wrong with my son's vision (and/or that he has dyslexia or dysgraphia) I had been met more than once with these quizzical stares and then the exchange of glances that seem like they are thinking ('Okaaaaay we got a live one here'). The only person who not only treated me like I was actually sane but even onto somehting was my son's school OT - I could have hugged her. Two weeks later his vision problem was confirmed. When I suspected he had hypotonia and many said "oh he just needs to work on it - he's not working hard enough." And the ever famous "well it's because he's a buy - biys are so much slower than girls in these things" But when he laid on the kitchen floor and sobbed "what's wrong with me?!?! I know what a triangle is and what it looks like why can't I get my hand to work? to make the picture in my head!!!" I stopped second guessing myself for real. Next thing is the dyslexia/dysgraphia ... I REALLY hope I am wrong about that .... that it is the vision problem causing what I am seeing as very problematic... But my track record so far...

BINGO!

I vividly remember the deer-in-headlights look on the school psychologist's face as she said to me "There are 40 IQ POINTS difference between her verbal comprehension and visual perception IQ scores! 40!!!" (While her hand was on top of her head - almost as if she was trying to keep it from spinning off her shoulders.) "That's less than one half of one percent of the population." I calmly asked what the normal deviation was and what we should do now. She said "Don't you understand what this means??? You were right - I didn't see it but you were right..."

You don't even get to enjoy having your insights confirmed. Yes, I am happy that I am not in fact a stark raving loon but my DD would be so much better off if I was wrong about all these things I have picked up on. I think it was polarbear who mentioned on this thread that we don't meet each other very often in real life. It is such an amazing help, though, to be able to come here with a problem, question or concern and have a half dozen other parents say "Oh yeah, we had that too. This is what we did, how we worked with it and where my dc is now..."

I have found that it helps me to be understanding and forgiving of people to realize that they are unlikely to have encountered anyone with my DS's particular 2E combination of assets and challenges before. He is a statistically improbable person. If I do the numbers, one like him will probably not have come along twice within any teacher's career, within any school administrator's career, within any psychologist's career. So of course none of them has a manual for dealing with him; they don't even have a single case study to look at. Of course they make mistakes. Who wouldn't.

The kinder ones listen sooner, look closely, take the time to figure him out, and help him anyway. At least your school psych actually got to the point of going AHA! She IS different!

DeeDee

I finished the Dyslexic Advantage and I highly recommend it for anyone interested in giftedness and dyslexia. I also got a copy for my father in law and talked to him about some of my concerns today.
The book has recommendations for elementary students and I was happy to see we were on the right track with some of the things we were already doing like HWT, audiobooks and early keyboard instruction. An another recommendation in the book and one that was mentioned here was an Orton-Gillingham based phonics program. I am not sure what the kindergarten uses but I did learn through the resources section in the book that there is a tutoring service which offers that type of program with a dyslexia remediation specialist near our house. So I suppose if he ends up needing a tutor it is nice to have a qualified person nearby.
As for talking to the school and chirping early, it is a small private school my son attended for preschool. Everything is much more informal. The director's vibe for sensory and gifted accommodations (at least at this point) is "how can we help?".
Thanks again for all the input. This forum is a sanity saver.

I wonder if it's worth it to have the local dyslexia remediation specialist do one or two sessions and get her perspective on the situation, and some ideas to use at home as part of daily life...

Glad Dyslexic Advantage helped!
Grinity

To follow up, I talked to my son's OT today about my concerns. She is going to do weekly HWT with him as a part of his OT at our house. I like this idea for two reasons. One, it might help him. Two, if we seek an assessment later it will be a good source of "improvement over time" information. She keeps weekly notes.

As I mentioned earlier, her kids go to my son's school and she teaches yoga there. She will do yoga with my son's class once a week and plans to keep an eye on him in the K classroom. Her son had a hard time in K and in first because of an imbalance between working on weaknesses and strengths. She doesn't want to see it repeated with my son so she is going to be my spy.:)

One month of kindergarten complete and everyone is calling it a successful month! There was a bit of a social bump mid month but that has resolved itself. (see Consequences of being Annoying thread) One thing that could use improvement is less avoidance of letter and number work. His teacher wants him to do more worksheets, workbook and writing activities. She wants at least two of these a day. His OT and I thought a visual task sheet he could look at and have marked off with each completion would help him. I am thinking I could give a reward for daily completion of two or weekly completion of ten or both.
I am trying to figure out how to make such a sheet. It isn't all just worksheets and stuff that can be stapled and given to him in a packet. It might be a math manipulative thing the teacher has to check when he is done or tracing a leaf and labeling the parts.
I am thinking about taking pics of the ten tasks the week before and printing them all on one sheet of paper he can take to school the following week. Then he can see everything that needs to be done and mark them off as they are complete. Overkill?

Another question, I understand that avoidance of letter and number work can be a dyslexia clue at five. How can you tell if a kid is avoiding the work because it is unusually difficult because of a LD or if it is just because they would rather do something else? The debate being "Perhaps, the avoidance is due to a learning disability" v. "Perhaps, he is willful and just isn't trying hard enough".