Are there any adults here who have learned to deal with/work around this disorder? What accommodations could be reasonable/helpful to address this in college?

Thanks

Bump.

Also curious.

In college I avoided any class that required a paper. I attended the University of Alabama and then transferred to UNC Chapel Hill my junior year. I had to take the required English courses and struggled through those. Students that need accommodations in college are often advised to attend a small schools. One of the advantages of attending a large university is the variety of classes offered. I wanted to go to law school until I found out how much writing was involved. I decided on med school, but later changed my mind and attended PA school. It took me months to write the admission essay.

At my current job, all the providers in my office dictate our notes, so that is very helpful for me. In my daily life I avoid writing and instead communicate with friends, teachers, and others by phone or text. I also make my husband do all of the writing for us. DYS application, Stanford Online High School Parent essays - he had to do all of it.

Thanks chkitchens!

My DD's CBT therapist has advised her that she could get accommodations in college that reduce writing requirements. I was uncertain if it was the best idea (to just avoid writing), rather than trying to overcome the difficulties. My DD also took months to write her admissions essay (but it was great once it was written!).

I read somewhere that there is no cure for "disorder of written expression" and careers that require writing are just closed to people with this disorder. I wondered if this was a new "disorder" since I never heard of it before. It helps to know it is real and there are adults who have done well in spite of it.

Thanks for sharing,
Nik

The types of accommodations that will be needed depend to a large extent on which aspects of the writing process are most problematic.

Accommodations that may be useful include:

Extended time for all written assignments;

Alternate response formats (oral response, video presentation, use of keyboard for in-class writing assignments, etc., depending on the individual's needs);

Use of outlining and/or word prediction software;

Use of voice recogniton software or a scribe;

Reduction in volume of written work required;

Lecture notes or outline provided by instructor in advance;

Recording lectures;

Instructor-provided templates or examples of each type of written assignment required with essential elements noted;

Notetaker (may be as simple as having another student make a carbon copy or photocopy of class notes);

At some point the educational system needs to say, "If you can't do the work, you don't belong here." If a college history class requires written term papers, I don't think that requirement should be relaxed for anyone. Grades on college transcripts should be comparable. One student's "B" should signify roughly the same quality and quantity of work as another's in the same class. Making accommodations that do not water down course requirements, such as making sure lecture halls are wheelchair-accessible, are another matter. If a student needs more time than others to do the work, he should consider taking fewer classes.

But what if (as in my DD's case), a student has such a vastly superior grasp on the subject than the others in the class and said student can wow the socks off their professors through oral discourse, bringing in valid new insights/perspectives, showing original creative critical thinking on the matter, in some cases making arguments that challenge the status quo in profound and valid ways, but said student can not do the same in written form in a timely manner.

Should this person be denied the opportunity to shine? Should the world be denied the potential contributions of such an individual merely based on their ability to write?

Did Socrates or Jesus write essays?

As a professor who routinely gives written assignments, and who also deals with people with disabilities, I have to disagree with Bostonian. We had a blind student in our grad program who could not do the written comps - choice was either a professional scribe or do an oral exam. Should we have not allowed her to graduate because she couldnt demostrate competence with our preferred method? For my students with LDs which affect written work, which oddly being blind does not, not with computers, we just figure out what they need to do. Dyslexics usually want more time. However, if there were other issues, I just need documentation of what they are, and what is the preferred method to deal with. Someone with expressive issues, I could see asking to do an annotated outline which they then present to me orally. That way I could see the research. I am pretty sure I could design equivalent assignments. In all likelihood I would have to guard against being too hard since it is much harder to present supported argument orally than written for undergraduates.

I think a social science or humanities is tough for someone with an LD but certainly not impossible. And given that the goals of universities are to educate and prepare for the future - to limit the way in which someone can demonstrate competence is short sighted. And I have never had someone suggest that another student had it easier or received a break from me over an accommodation, because the answer to why did I get a B is always found in ones own work, not in someone else's.

DeHe

I think Bostonian is correct to point out that there are tricky issues involved in accommodating disabilities while maintaining the usefulness of the qualification to third parties such as employers, but it is also something we routinely do. In the UK, we are bound by the Equalities Act 2000. It's all pretty sane. (I am not sure, though I did look it up at some point, which parts of what follows are actually specified in the law and which are just what we see as good legally safe practice, though.) The general principle is that we must make reasonable adjustments for disabilities. "Reasonable" naturally depends on context - e.g., it's reasonable to expect a university to make classes wheelchair accessible, even at considerable inconvenience and expense, because we can take it, but it wouldn't be reasonable to expect a startup tutoring company whose offices were up four flights of stairs to do the same. Where assessment is concerned, we must do whatever may be required for the student to demonstrate that they have met the learning objectives of the course. We don't have to pass someone who can't meet the LOs, and we are allowed to set prerequisites for entrance to the course provided we have good reason to do so. E.g. if "be able to spell all of the most common 10,000 words of English" were a learning objective of the course, then it would be fine to penalise a dyslexic person for spelling errors in exams, but otherwise, it isn't. Where I am, one result is that people write LOs more carefully and tightly than they used to, because the less vague they are, the easier it is to deal with this kind of thing fairly. [ETA E.g. some of the LOs on courses I've taught start "Explain..." and so, I think, if I had a student with disorder of written expression who could do this orally but not in written form, I would have to assess that student specially. Had I written "Explain in writing..." I would not have to accommodate. Incidentally a feature of the UK system compared with the US one is less on-the-fly autonomy for individual professors: these LOs go through a committee a year in advance.]

The thing we can't do is create more time, and this is the thing I've found hardest in dealing with students with disabilities. In this system, you can't just take fewer courses per year and take longer to graduate; there is a fixed annual courseload. If someone has a disability such that it's possible for them to meet all the learning objectives of all the courses but at the cost of significantly more effort than nondisabled students, it's very easy for that person to sink, and very hard to help them. (People can and do repeat years, but if they can't do a year's courseload in a year, they can't pass.) In those situations it really does end up depending on the organisation and motivation of the student. Students who aren't exceptionally organised and motivated can and do fail.

ETA One thing I have wondered about is this. Currently, if a student has a disability that is accommodated, nothing about this appears on the student's transcript or certificate. So it is quite possible that a potential employer might, for example, have some knowledge about the amount of writing involved in one of our degrees, and deduce from the fact that a student has a degree from us that they must be able to write well. If the student had an accommodated disability, that might not be correct, and there is no obligation on the student to declare the disability to the employer. I tend to think this is OK, and best seen as just another reason to get those LOs correct and public. I do think of this every time I read criticism of universities for "turning out students who can't write a decent paragraph" though! (In practice, there is a class of things I'll comment on in student work but not penalise, and many writing problems are among them.)

The fairness of accommodations was an issue while I was in law school. Our tests were timed and getting written responses out onto paper before the time was up was the only basis for grading. There was one written timed test per class for almost every class the first two years. No one turned tests in early and most were frantically writing the entire test time.
Our top student had an accommodation for a separate room and no time limit. He got as much time as needed, he routinely got the highest grades and got hired on at a prestigious law firm. Perhaps he would have had the highest scores had everyone gotten all day rather than two or three hours but we'll never know.
Personally, I didn't really care. I thought he was a nice guy who seemed to work hard. There were others that were within reach of that top spot that thought the accommodation went too far.

I think this is a tough issue. I always think of accommodations in the workplace as in- you are paralyzed and in a wheelchair, so we need to make the bathroom accessible for you, etc.
What if you didn't have any hands or you have cerebral palsy, so you can't physically write or type? So an accommodation for that.
It's trickier if you can't write physically fast; should you get to take untimed tests? How about in the workplace, where there may be serious time deadlines? Should you not have that deadline and your co-workers do? That is tough. I guess it would depend what other talents you have that you bring to your job.
We have worked with my 9 year old on math facts and doing things faster daily for 3 years now, at home. He has a documented CAPD and global processing disorder and has extended time written into his IEP, which he has never used. All of this hard work has paid off. He is probably "fast enough." He took the CTY tests, OLSAT, and STAR tests without extended time and did really well.
I don't think he should go into a field where speed is the determining factor for his success, but he can probably limp along if it's a job where that isn't the main focus.
I'm a hopelessly unspatial person. I never could draw, I get lost very easily, I bombed the spatial part of whatever IQ test I took in the mid-1970's that I otherwise aced. Yet I've done very well as an interventional cardiologist (which is an extremely spatial field) b/c I've found other ways to compensate. I have a phenomenal memory and was ultimately able to memorize the spatial things I needed, which took a huge effort and time commitment, but it was what I really wanted to do.
You may need to work alot harder but some people may be able to scrape by without accommodations.

Nik, my ds isn't an adult yet, but fwiw I have a few thoughts for you. DOWD can impact a person in two very distinct ways - the physical act of handwriting and the ability to put thoughts into written expression. My ds has struggled with both.


FWIW, many kids/adults who have dysgraphia/DOWD can't write fast, but it's not a purely physical challenge - it's a neurological disconnect which impacts their ability to develop the automaticity that comes naturally to most of us when we learn to write. There is not really (for most people) a way to remediate or improve this; most people with this type of handwriting challenge use keyboarding instead of handwriting in school and in the workplace. (FWIW, most people *without* this type of challenge use keyboarding in college and the workplace for long writing assignments at this point in the history of the planet... but I digress :)). ABQmom gave a good overview of other types of accommodations which are typical for dysgraphia/DOWD impacting the physical act of handwriting. Many times people with this challenge also need accommodations for spelling/punctuation/etc - not because they don't know how to spell or understand punctuation rules, but because the act of writing (either by hand or on a keyboard) takes up so much of their working memory that there isn't any WM left over for spelling/etc.

DOWD can also impact a person's ability to express their ideas/thoughts on paper, and this can manifest in different ways (generating ideas, organizing ideas, etc). This is an area which potentially can be helped by remediation/targeted tutoring. Our ds has made good progress working with a speech therapist specifically on written expression. He's never going to be a great novelist, and chances are he's never going to enjoy the act of writing, but it's helped tremendously with his ability to express his thoughts on paper. He still will most likely need extended time accommodations for written expression (on testing) throughout college, simply because it takes him a long time to put his thoughts into writing even when he knows what he wants to say and how to say it.

FWIW ds has an accommodation for extended time on testing and for oral response of fluency tests, but he hasn't ever had any kind of accommodation for extended time for homework or class assignments or reduced amount of classwork/homework. HOWEVER.... he spends much more time completing his classwork and homework assignments than his peers do - not because he doesn't understand or know the subject matter well and not because he doesn't grasp concepts, but simply because it takes him a long time to write. I think that in some cases in high school and college where work loads and overlapping assignments between different courses can get crazy busy for typical kids, requesting an accommodation of extended time or reduced workload that still shows subject mastery is a reasonable accommodation for students with DOWD.

polarbear

I think it's tough to really understand this type of "hidden" disability unless you've personally experienced it yourself or through knowing someone who has struggled with it. The important nugget to take away from this, for folks who aren't parenting a child with DOWD or who aren't familiar with it, is that having DOWD doesn't mean the child/person doesn't have meaningful insightful knowledgable things to say - I don't have time to look up the list at the moment, but there are quite a few very famous, brilliant entrepreneurs/inventors/etc living now and in past history who most either have or most likely had DOWD. My ds' testing is like looking from a distance at a high high ridgeline that all of a sudden has a huge dip into one very narrow valley and then it's back up to the very high ridgeline again. If you know him from talking to him, from listening to his ideas, there's no question he's an EG/PG kid. If you only knew him through his ability to express himself through written expression, you'd never have a chance to hear his amazing insight and you'd probably walk away thinking he's average (or lower) intelligence.

Accommodations for DOWD don't make grades across coursework "not comparable" - accommodations allow people with disabilities to show their knowledge without being limited by the disability. Using a keyboard or extended time for written expression is the "glasses" or "wheelchair" that allow a person with DOWD to show their knowledge.


I think most of us here have at one time or another lamented as we've seen our children sit bored in a classroom where they didn't have the intellectual stimulation that fuels their high-ability brain and inspires them to learn. Imagine being a PG kid (or even an average IQ kid) and being told you should limit the number of course you take this semester because you don't write as quickly as a typical student. Or imagine being put into a non-gifted or non-honors course because you're written expression takes time yet your brain is flying on warp speed.

The accommodations that aculady listed are all *very* typical and widely recognized accommodations for people with DOWD.

polarbear

Of course, the problem wasn't the unfairness of the accommodation: it was the unfairness of the original test, which required a high output speed when that wasn't what was supposed to be assessed (presumably - I presume it (a) because the accommodation was provided and (b) because fast handwriting is basically never required these days; if you wanted fast output you'd want fast typing). Sometimes that kind of factor gets baked in by tradition and needs to be challenged...

Students/employees that have accommodations have them so they can perform or learn based on their abilities rather than their disabilities, but they are NOT excused from requirements that are deemed essential to the program/job.

KJP: If the school didn't think it was essential to have a hard time limit on the testing for the disabled student, then it must not have been considered an essential academic requirement. It might have been a good issue to bring up with the program if it seemed like the program was treating timeliness as essential to some students and not others.

I've included some info below on the use of accommodations in higher education and the workplace.


Regarding Employment:

The protections for the disabled depend on the ability to perform essential job functions (in the US). If producing written work quickly is an essential job function, a person who could not do that would not be qualified for the job. The disabled person (or any person) needs to look for a job that is within personal abilities. And no company or law firm is required to hire or retain someone who cannot perform the job.

Most job descriptions will list essential (and sometimes nonessential or marginal) functions of the position. An applicant typically has access to this information before applying for the job.

Here's a link regarding that, followed by a quote from the linked page:

http://www.eeoc.gov/facts/ada17.html

An individual with a disability must also be qualified to perform the essential functions of the job with or without reasonable accommodation, in order to be protected by the ADA. This means that the applicant or employee must:

satisfy your job requirements for educational background, employment experience, skills, licenses, and any other qualification standards that are job related; and
be able to perform those tasks that are essential to the job, with or without reasonable accommodation.

The ADA does not interfere with your right to hire the best qualified applicant. Nor does the ADA impose any affirmative action obligations. The ADA simply prohibits you from discriminating against a qualified applicant or employee because of her disability.


Here's what the ADA says about accommodations in college:

What are academic adjustments and auxiliary aids and services?

Academic adjustments are defined in the Section 504 regulations at 34 C.F.R. § 104.44(a) as:
[S]uch modifications to [the] academic requirements as are necessary to ensure that such requirements do not discriminate or have the effect of discriminating, on the basis of [disability] against a qualified ... applicant or student [with a disability]. Academic requirements that the recipient can demonstrate are essential to the instruction being pursued by such student or to any directly related licensing requirement will not be regarded as discriminatory within the meaning of this section. Modifications may include changes in the length of time permitted for the completion of degree requirements, substitution of specific courses required for the completion of degree requirements, and adaptation of the manner in which specific courses are conducted.

Here's the link for the full text:

http://www2.ed.gov/about/offices/list/ocr/transitionguide.html

I think tradition played a big part in how the tests were conducted and it really was a poor way to assess mastery of the material. One professor put it this way: there are about 5% of you that think like your professors, 5% that don't understand the material and the remaining 90% would be just as fairly graded if I took your exams, tossed them across the room and ranked them based on which one went the furthest.

Pass/Fail would have probably been a better way but there is a tradition of having a class rank and everyone being graded on a curve.

It seems to me that this disorder can take many forms. For me it started in kindergarten when I was humiliated in front of the class because of my poor handwriting at age 7. (1960). Then as a teenager, I always struggled with all written assignments. I didn't have a clue about punctuation and my written vocabulary was way below my oral abilities. I couldn't put my thoughts into sentences and anything I wrote was in short childlike sentences. I just littered my writing with commas. Instructions to put capital letters at the beginning of a sentence and a full stop at the end were completely meaningless as I had no idea whether I had reached the end of a sentence or not. My work was always returned to me covered in red corrections and low marks. I was always none the wiser as to what I had done wrong to deserve such criticism.
What had started as a child�s writing handicap became a complete phobia. Eventually the whole process of writing filled me with dread. Writing thank you letters on Christmas Day ruined the festivities every year. My mother insisted that this was done immediately and I froze in panic at the thought. The same happened on holiday when they said I must send postcards to friends and relatives.
Despite my poor performance in English I excelled in Maths and went on to a prestigious university to study architecture. Being a technical subject, I thought I would somehow get through it. However, the fear of every written piece of work caused so much anxiety I ended up dropping out of university altogether. The college gave me three attempts but to no avail I just could not deal with the extreme anxiety and complete mental blocks.
After that I went to a technical school and qualified as an architectural technician which enabled me to work and earn my living but the prospect of a graduate level job seemed completely out of reach. However, with the advent of word processors and computers I returned to university to study computer science and this time gained a first class degree. I still struggle with writing but using a computer has helped enormously.
Recently, I was offered promotion at work but it would have involved writing to clients everyday. I had to decline the promotion with some lame excuse because I still can�t tell my employer the truth. It still isn�t acceptable for a grown adult to admit to not being able to write letters. Loads of people say that they can�t do maths but admitting to not being able to do written tasks is a complete no-no. I believe that if this disorder had been recognised all those years ago I might have got the help that I needed but then I was just considered lazy and incompetent. May be I would have been able to pursue the career I had wanted if people had understood this problem. I still don't believe that colleges and universities really recognise this as the crippling disability that it is.

Thanks everyone for the valuable input, I am printing this thread and will have to read it over a few times before we go talk to the Disability Support Services office at our local college next week.


This is where my DD struggles most, is written expression something speech therapists typically work with? Or did you just get lucky? My DD has no trouble with speech (other than sometimes talking too fast and too much - lol).

Wow Penrose, I’m sorry for your struggles but thank you for sharing and I am glad you found something you could excel in! My DD shares these parts of your history:


And although these parts are not consistent with my DD’s experience, I could have written these parts about myself:


I was never shamed about my handwriting (thankfully), so I didn’t develop anxiety about writing. I just remember the lessons in grammar being so boring and it seemed so stupid to me, I think my brain just refused to learn it. I remember thinking, “I have good ideas and I can convey those ideas so that they are understood by others, why would I ever need to know the silly rules about the parts of speech?” I managed to get through college with straight A’s despite a lot of red ink on my written work and comments like “watch your grammar” and “run-on sentences” on nearly every paper. I think writing became easier as I got older though (in part probably due to word processing software), at 30 I went to a liberal arts grad school with a ton of writing requirements and I did just fine. I still have trouble with capitalization sometimes though.

The odd thing with my DD is that at random times she actually produces excellent written work (just never on cue or by the deadline), and she is beyond superior in her ability to edit other people’s written work for proper use of punctuation and grammar but she might not be able to explain the “why” behind it very well. She was an early reader (spontaneous at 2) and has been a voracious reader ever since, so maybe she just knows what looks right.


I agree, there still seems to be a general lack of understanding or willingness to believe that this is a real disability. If I had known more about it earlier, I might have been able to help with taking dictation and maybe that would have prevented the whole issue from becoming such a full blown phobia.

DeeHee, I wish there were more administrators/teachers like you! I asked the ADA contact at DD’s last college about getting supports in place and she said “we expect the students to just work it out with each of their teachers on an individual basis” sigh! For a 50K a year school, that’s a big chance to take (that DD who has/had severe anxiety would be comfortable spilling her soul to each of her teachers at the beginning of the year when she doesn’t know them, and that they would all be understanding and willing to work with her on reduced writing and the substitution of oral reports for written ones).

Nik
I am absolutely horrified by this - its not a policy if it is up to the individual professor to decide what to do. What does the ADA person do if not help the university determine standards? There need to be some standards for guiding professors who are only experts in their chosen field. Nor should students have deal with the attitudes that some professors and apparently administrators have about this, I want to use bigotry but that is not the right word. But as I said earlier, we just recently had a department chair force the grad school to do the right thing and not make it some half-a** response. I would really recommend having a list of accommodations you think will help for each class she wants to take. And her buy in here is critical - unfortunately she will be held to a higher standard in terms of work output within the confines of the help - meaning she is unlikely to get extra for being sick, etc if she has a professor who is not supportive. These things are to protect her in that sitatuion and so if she goes all teenager-y and blows stuff off it could really undermine what she is trying to do.

Feel free to PM me, and good luck!

DeHe