DD#2 is 5.5yrs, has done mid year entry to K and at a high end private school that is not working that well for her.

She has a FSIQ of 146, but her eye behaviour/co-ordination is slightly below average for age so she did not learn to read independently on her own as a small child, but was taught over the last 6 months (she did learn the alphabet by name and sound in and out of order at 2), but has learned WAY faster than her peers, and her handwriting is age/schooling lvl appropriate.

We have looked at a whole bunch of schools and narrowed it down to the local public and a Montessori which is also fairly close. She has had trial days at both, she prefers the local public but says she wishes she could go to three schools....

Montessori
Pros:
Socially "safer" : 5.5yr old going into the 6-9yr old room she would be the youngest by 6+ months but would have a range of kids (girls particularly) to befriend starting from a little older through to a lot older.
Work : Montessori done well is all about individual work, I certainly feel they assessed her strengths and weaknesses very well in 1/2 a day and pitched to her level.
Will be more practical in 2013 if #3 goes to preschool there (very likely)
smaller classes (24 max)
great outdoor play, which DD liked

Cons:
$6k p/a compared to free
DD chooses the local public



Local Public
Pros:
It's her choice / favourite, and she has met the teacher she would have next year
closer and more practical for co-ordinating with her big sister's school
better for getting to know the local community, play dates etc
awesome principle (Monti principle also excellent)
free

Cons:
Socially riskier: 5.5yr old going into a yr1/2 composite class where all the yr1s are boys and all the yr2s are girls, full 2yr age gap before the next girl in the class.
Work : they will differentiate, but how much? Particularly given her handwriting weakness (assessed as exactly age/education level appropriate, which is 6 mths of K).
bigger classes (28-30)

Ah, if only there was a crystal ball, no?

Is there a way to talk to some of the parents at the Montessori? I was amazed at the difference in schools between the one where I did some of my student- teaching in another state and the one I visited on a job interview quite a few years ago. As you said, done right is the key.

One other thought to consider, are there services available to address some of your daughter's delays? Private school usually does not, if you think she might need extra support.

Good luck with the choice!

Let her try her choice. If that turns out badly for her, let her know that she doesn't have to stay and can go somewhere else.

Our experience has been that it's often times not so much the educational philosophy that a school follows, what's important is just this - that it's "done well". I'd talk to as many other parents at the schools your looking at and consider their feedback, then make the decision based on my child's personality. The final choice might not be the most convenient choice - we faced that this year with my ds' school, but ultimately it was actually much more convenient than we'd anticipated - simply because the things that *we'd* seen as not convenient (drive and tuition cost) were things we could deal with, and we were blessed with a convenience that we hadn't realized would make life easier - ds loves his new school and the academics are much better suited to him - so spending the extra time driving etc paid off in terms of significantly lightening the load of stress over his previous school situation that was taking up a lot of energy in our lives.

Do you have a good understanding of why her current school isn't working well for your dd? That might be an important piece of information to consider as she moves on.

I'm also really curious why the public school 1/2 classroom that she'd be going into is divided into all girls for 2nd and all boys for 1st. Any ideas why it's split that way?

polarbear

Did she tell you why she prefers the public school? I would consider her reasons and see how they compare to your perspective. Maybe have her do pro/cons of the schools too.

If the smaller classes are 24 kids - how many are in there room of the 1/2? Will your dd be with the 1s or the 2s? Will it be noisy? Did you get a chance to see how disipline is handled in both rooms?

Some kids are just plain more asynchronous than others. Some are asynchronous within subjects, as in Langage Arts: Reading 12th grade, writing 2nd grade, spelling Kindy - and some are asynchronous between subjects, as in Math at 7th grade level, Lang Arts at 2nd grade level.

When your DD says that she wishes she could go to all 3 schools, this is what I hear:
1) She has a wonderful and vivid imagination and is inclined to see the positive in any situation
2) She doesn't want to dissapoint anyone (particularly you) and saying she wishes she could have all three is a bid to keep her out of the limelight of having to make a decision.
3) She sense, correctly, that she isn't mature enough to make this decision.

I'm guessing that when you ask her what she wants for her birthday she intentionally picks things that are 'smaller' than other kids would ask for, yes?

I'd ask to take a look at what the Montessori developed for her, and see if they have a plan that incorporates both her strengths and weaknesses. Do they seem able to concieve that a child might be at age level in writing and way way beyond in abstract reasoning and reading? When you observe day to day goings on, do you see any other kids who are asynchronous like your dd?

Another way of looking at it is to look at how much flexibility is built in. If she doesn't do well at the Public school, will the Mont let her in mid year? If she hates the Mont, are you obligated to pay for the entire year?

Best Wishes - this isn't an easy one!
Grinity

Thanks everyone for your thoughts.


Just quickly before I dash off to school. The australian system works slightly different. My eldest is in (the same) private school precisely because she has issues that would not qualify for support in our public system but is well supported privately. The private school is really very good at dealing with an "MG with quirks" kid. DD#2 on the other hand they think they have lots of gifties and they know what gifted is about and they just don't get her. Their program is just the wrong fit for her personality and it's also clear that if doing what they do naturally works then it's a great school but if you need to have an opinion they won't listen (and are deeply offended).

She would not qualify for any services at the public school, but the teacher will certainly do what she can about the hand writing and the principle is currently saying "we can work with that" re the asynchrony.

gender balance - the yr1 cohort is only 1/3 girls, they have dealt with this by heavily loading the 1/2 class with yr1 boys and then dealt with that gender balance issue by having only girls in yr2... Just to clarify being a 1/2 class there is one class of 28 kids, half 1s half 2s, with one teacher, it's not an open plan class room with a yr1 class and a yr2 class side by side. Although I am going to clarify the class size today, I may have it wrong.

grinity - my DD will officially be a yr1 but will be grouped by ability with whoever fits at the time within the class, the teacher doesn't really label work "yr1" or "yr2" work, she just gives the kids work at their level. Yes the classroom is much more chaotic and much noisier than her current school or the Montessori, as well as being a larger class group it's also in an open plan space with a second class across the way.

As far as we can tell DD is asychronous in terms of understanding v. output not one area v. another, and if an area is weak it is lack of exposure rather than ability (that we can tell so far).

I think you are right in all three reasons for wanting to go to all three schools. It's also that she likes different things about all three and wants them all.

She's going to have less chance of having other kids close to her LOG at the public or monti than she would at her current school.

Part of the reason for the change is to find a school that isn't convinced that they know what gifted kids look like and that their school is full of them, but instead will be willing to see that she is different and address her needs as they find them.

Have you brought up this idea specifically with the principal (and maybe teachers) at the schools you're considering?

Val yes we have. Which is how we came to do trial days at these two schools over all the others we looked at, they had better responses.

Unfortunately this isn't at all uncommon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Blind.JPG
Apparently Giftedness is very much like an elephant.

Good news that the public school is ability grouped across grade. That's a good thing, and will shrink the LOG problem. Of course, the following year can be a problem. Hummmmm
Grinity

Multiage classes will be very interesting next year with the introduction of the new uniform national Australian curriculum too. My DD school nearly disbanded all their multiage classes for next year due to it's introduction. The curriculum is extremely specific about exactly what is taught, how often assessed etc. My DD will be in a 6/7 multiage and I have to now officially apply for language arts subject acceleration for her to do Yr 7 work in the classroom ( she is enrolled in dist Ed Yr 9 math so no problem.) Evidently any year 6 student MUST do the stated curriculum and assessment to the exact letter for year 6. Don't really know what this will mean for gifted kids. Previous years no problem, she just worked with the top level kids in the year above.

I agree with the new curriculum standardization across states to make it easier for families to relocate as regards education, but the implications of this very specific curriculum is a bit of an unknown at this stage..... Well so I have heard anyhow !!

Grinity, love the pic! The public school is not ability grouped at all. It's just a bog standard local school, most of public schools in my city run predominantly mixed age classes, it's just what they do.

When I spoke the principle she said "No, we've never had anyone like her here, we have no gifted program... We do get gifted kids occasionally. If she came here we would put her into yr 1 of a 1/2 class with an individual learning plan." When she realised the gender problem in that class (as I had asked about gender balance due to it being an issue at DDs current private school), she then came back and said "We used to believe that gifted children should be kept with their age group, but now the evidence shows us they are better off being accelerated. The gender balance is worse than I thought in that class and she should not go k/1. We could put her in yr2? Is she ready for yr2?" So either she already knew about current research on gifted kids and acceleration before talking to me, or she went and read between phone calls. I don't really care which it was - either way she is open to both reading AND following research! And she's flexible.

She's clear what she CAN'T promise, ie she can pick this year's classroom and teacher and thinks it will work (if the all-the-girls-are-2yrs-older thing turns out ok), but she can't promise what next year will look like. She's quite open in admitting that this setup will either be brilliant or a disaster. She's also open to turning this into a double acceleration to keep DD with those older girls if DD does hit it off with them and does bootstrap herself up to their level as a result.

She was able to give direct examples of how the school had differentiated for children in other situations that needed it, this teacher in particular.

Basically we are choosing them not for their programs or gifted cohort but for their honesty, straightforwardness and willingness to play it by ear and try to come up with something that works.

The montessori has a little more of the "We know what we are doing and it works for all kids" thing going on - but they actually did seem to accurately assess her and thus "know what they were doing" more than her current school :-). And they have the wider age cohort, both because it's a three year span and because there would be kids closer to her age in the class...

I think we are leaning towards the public school but it's a very hard choice. I am feeling pretty crippled by indecision.

Stephanie - that is interesting and worrying re the impact of the national curriculum.

My 2pworth: that attitude is really, really valuable and not to be turned down lightly! You're lucky to be in a situation where it isn't a no-brainer to go with that school, IMO :-)

Yes I really agree, but 2yrs to the next youngest girl in her class is kinda scary... I think we just have to bite the bullet.

Sure, I understand. You've talked about the possibility that she'll get on fine with the girls 2 years older, but don't forget the possibility that she'll get on fine with the boys 1 year older (even if she shows strong girl-preference now). At DS's school there's some tendency for boys and girls to split into groups along gender lines, but not all of them go along with it. DS is one who doesn't, and doesn't seem to have had any trouble from this.

I have a very girly, boys don't exist girl in 4th grade. There are no girls at her level in her class. There is one boy. She does most of her math with this boy and it seems to be going well. At first I was concerned, but without all that girly distraction stuff and someone at her level of learning who give her a "run for her money," she seems to be able to focus really well. She is also the only girl in Chess Club. She says she doesn't like being the only girl and that she should have taken Drama class with the girls instead of chess. But I see her growing from the experience and maybe boys are becoming more exsitant to her!

I can see how it could be a problem if access to girls was restricted EVERY day though. But, you said the girls will be two years older. The girls in DD9 class are her age but way more imature...either way, they have to figure out how to fit in.

Indeed I do think she will play with the boys, in fact her only friends at her current school are boys. But according to all the books on helping kids build friendships she is entering the age where same sex friendships are most important and I would like that to be possible for her...

A crystal ball would be nice :-). The reality is she is not going to fit in anywhere that well.

My DD has always preferred girls as friends, but I preferred boys until I was in 3rd grade (so about 8). I think there's a good chance you have a few more years before you need a deep pool of potential girl friends.