Like many kids, my 9 y.o. son is a voracious reader. He seems to have plateaued in terms of the level he reads at - Harry Potter, Jules Verne, the Ender Books, Little House books, Percy Jackson, The Hunger Games...so he reads at a fairly high level, but given the choice will not choose anything more demanding than the young adult level that only if the topic is of interest.

What I am a little surprised at is the speed at which he reads. For a long time I assumed he was like me - a voracious reader (best, fastest in my small/medium elementary school) who got through a lot of books by reading every chance I got. But lately I've noticed a few instances where he reads at a rate that seems to go beyond this.

1. I bought him one of the Percy Jackson books as a treat. He said he'd already read it. Knowing they didn't have it at his school, I asked him where. Well, they had a book fair at the school and the kids were allowed to browse for a few minutes each day. He read it from cover to cover during these periods.

2. On a recent weekend I asked him around lunchtime how he was enjoying 20,00 Leagues Under the Sea, which he had picked up that morning. He was done with it. I'm not sure how long it took him, but I know he did more than just read that morning.

3. Most recently, I gave him a copy of The Hunger Games as we got into the car to take a trip we do frequently that takes almost exactly 1 hour and forty five minutes. He finished the book before we got there.


I'm curious to hear opinions for a few reasons. First, his writing abiities are FAR below his reading abilities and he tends to be uneven in general. I am not willing to put a label on him at this point, but I was told by the psychologist who administered the WISC that the discrepnacy between his writing and his reading could be considered a learning disability. SO am interested in accurately gauging the reading ability, as the differential between that and the writing may be indicative of problems.

Second, he is starting at a new school next year and they have an Accelerated Reader program. I am a little wary that he will be accused of cheating, especially as his social skills are not great.


So I'd be interested in hearing any opinion. I have no strong desire to be the mom of a super fast reader, so if his reading speed sounds completely average to you please feel free to state it plainly. He's a very birght boy and meets the minimum stated requirements for DYS, but I'm aware that there are parents here with children whose abilities are much more unusual.

Thanks

P.S. His absolutely is reading these books thoroughly and with good comprehension. He can answer very specific questions.

I was that kind of reader, although my writing skills were not below average. As long as he is comprehending, just keep feeding the beast But as I am sure you have learned, library trips are MUCH more economical than the bookstore.

However, I would say that the psychologist could be onto something regarding his writing. My D15 is also a voracious and fast reader, and lags in writing. Particulary organizing papers and writing in a manner that is coherent to other people. Super vocabulary, just had a hard time putting a paper together. She was diagnosed with a non-verbal learning disability (initial hints in 2nd grade testing, but we didn't really nail the diagnosis until midway through 9th grade, which is when it really started causing serious academic issues).

I agree, that's fast. When I was younger, I'd go through 3 novels a day - got one before school, and read mostly during passing periods, then one at lunch for the afternoon passing periods, then one after school for the bus ride home. Maybe 100 pages in 30 minutes, for light reading? The G&T program brought in someone to "teach" us speedreading, and the "10 times faster than average reading speed" demonstration was slower than my normal reading speed, but not hugely slower.

I tend to want to stretch books out now, so try to read slower. I find myself intentionally flipping back to slowly re-read pages that I automatically skimmed through without paying much attention - but without missing out on anything important. So I'm not sure that "can answer specific questions" requires the reading-every-word type of "thoroughly," at least in my own experience.

I was a good writer, and would also be concerned about a kid who seemed unable to organize his writing. Uninterested in organizing wouldn't necessarily concern me - it's hard to get your thoughts out fast enough to keep up with your brain, and organizing as you write makes it even worse. (My solution was to let everything float around in my brain until it organized itself. The organizational methods they taught in school worked so poorly with how I thought that it was easier to write the paper, then create the outline / notecards / whatever intermediate steps the teacher thought I should need.)

He sounds quite a bit like my 9 yo son. I wouldn't say that it's "average" though! I think my 9 yo reads faster than my husband age 48.

My 9 yo made great strides in writing this year mostly because he is now fluent at typing. I don't think the reading being well ahead of the writing is too surprising. It can be extremely frustrating to be able to think very fast, but not be able to get that down on paper.

My voracious reader son had a 9 month hault in reading progress at the same age. It drove me crazy because he kept complaining about not having good books despite any efforts. Finally, his sister was reading an above level book that surprized him and he started progressing again.

During this time I think he was studying humor in his easier books. Maybe he wanted to relate better to other kids.

Sorry, I can not offer advice in the other areas.

I agree that as long as there is full reading comprehension, there doesn't seem to be anything to worry about!

I can't remember if I shared this here or somewhere else, but I had the same concern about my older DS this past year. At 5y9m, he flew through the first Harry Potter book in 3 1/2 hours. I was extremely skeptical, esp since it took me at least that long and I'm an ol' attorney who can fly through the books. Nonetheless, I gave him a Harry Potter middle school reading comp. quiz, and he aced it. He then proceeded to argue a point with me by rapidly opening the book to where the passage was. That tells me they CAN comprehend that quickly! (He also tends to read an entire Percy Jackson novel in an evening.)

Since my DS is still little, his writing hugely lags behind his reading. However, when my stepson turned 16, we discovered that he has a learning process disability where his brain isn't able to transmit his thoughts to his hand very well. (There's a book, but I can't find it here on our bookshelves!) He is MG and has also always been a voracious and extremely rapid reader. He now gets accommodations for his writing assignments at his Waldorf high school. He tried a voice-typing program, but I don't think that worked well for him. (He never uses it when he's with us.) It is considered a disability in terms of special accommodations for the SAT and other tests. I'm sure your DS is probably too young for that type of concern yet, but it isn't unheard of for the reading to be high but writing to be low.

Thanks for all the responses.

I realized after reading them and thinking on them that I'm just guilty of being arrogant. To me, "fast" reading is my rate. So because my son reads significantly faster (I think, haven't raced him!), his rate is odd. If I let that go, my recent observations of specific instances of fast reading don't change the overall picture.

"But as I am sure you have learned, library trips are MUCH more economical than the bookstore."

- intparent

Strangely, I don't use the library all that much. Somehow my kids don't get as much out of the library. Something about the way it's organized. I have trouble getting them engaged in the search for books, and there seem to be more comic books and garbage-y books in the library. At one branch in particular my kids always go striaght to the super hero comic books. WHich is fine, I let them read them for a while, but they remain distracted by them for the whole visit.

And in our local libraries the kids section is pretty juvenile and the young adult section is low quality and the topics not appropriate for a 9 y.o. (I'm not a prude and I don't mind my kids reading about real life, but IMO indulgent teenage angst novels aren't real life.)

When I search online before I go in to make a list of books with a certain theme or topic, half the time the good ones are checked out. Then when I get there, others are misplaced. Or they are there, but they just don't pique my kids' interest that week and then they are overdue before they are read.

I realize the library is a phenomenal resource and I do make use of it, I'm just explaining why I don't use it that much. I spend a lot of money on books, but when I look at it in the context of all of our expenses, I think it's money well-spent. We've got an Amazon membership so shipping is free and the search engine on the site is good, the reviews are helpful....

P.S. I should add that my children frequently prefer to re-read books. That, and the fact that we have been given several whole sets of Great Books-type collections lessens the amount of work I need to do just to "feed the fire"

If you can afford to buy the books (and can keep your house from becoming overrun... even as regular library users, we still accumulate tons of books), that is great. I will say that D had a hard time finding her own books at the library for a while. Sometimes I would go down the shelves with her, pull stuff out, and give her a quick summary. She would glance, say yes or no, and it would go in the bag or back on the shelf. She didn't read everything we brought home, but a lot of it. If I just left her alone with the bag in the kids section, I would come back later and find the bag empty. Then she discovered the teen section when she was about 11, and was able to find more stuff there. She rolls her eyes at teen angst (and vampire novels, except Dracula :)), so she just ignored that stuff. Now she does her own selecting.

One of the great pleasures of parenthood for me has been finding/sharing my favorite books with my kids. So sometimes I suggest something for her, too. I have learned not to take it personally when they don't like something I loved. I have also learned not to sweat it if they don't read all that they bring home. They can always check it out again later if they want it.

One other thing is that if you live in a metropolitan area, you could try some different branches of the library. Each one has their own "flavor" in my opinion. The librarians decide which books to purchase, and which of the older ones to keep. And how to display them. The library in the big suburb near our house has a lot of the "junk" materials you mentioned prominently displayed. But the smaller branch in the little town by the river that is an equal distance away has a much less flashy, and in my opinion more interesting collection of kids and teen fiction. Too bad if none of your local branches/systems have a good selection, though.

Regarding re-reading, I checked the same books out of the library again and again as a kid. We had those cards that you wrote your name on, and on some cards my name is the only one, again and again over the years. So you can re-read, and still save $ and storage space. Also, our library allows online searching and putting a book on hold. They e-mail us when the book is in, and we have 7 days to pick it up. Sometimes it is in our branch, and sometimes it is from another branch. Either way, they will get it to our library's hold shelf and hang onto it for a week. We can even search all over the state and request stuff our library system doesn't have (I use this sometimes for out of print things). There is pretty much always something waiting for us on the hold shelf, so even if we don't find the thing we want on the shelf, it is never a wasted trip. Again, too bad if your library doesn't have these capabilities.

It probably also helps that we have a library "habit". We go at least once a week (and frequently complain to each other that we wish they were open on Friday nights, as that would be the most convenient time for us!).

I've had generally-good results with "giant box of teacher classroom books" on ebay. For me, a good price is $1 per book, inclusive of shipping.

I do find that I need to pre-read, and sort for appropriateness. My piles are "fine for now," "you'd be able to read the words, but might not understand the motivations," and "IMHO this book is inappropriate to read without extensive guidance." The last category is mostly racist stuff - older Newbery books in particular tend to be stupidly racist (as opposed to intentionally racist).

We have the same issue with library books.

Jane S -
You seem to have a system that works really well for you - and finding books for advanced 9 year olds is really tough - but I have a suggestion for the library. At our local they have a secret method for seperating the trashy books for the classics. They put the classics on top of the stacks. There is also a group of YA novels that get selected by out state each year that the library buys multiple copies of so that many kids can read them - and those books are often tolerable - and all placed together on the shelves.

So the suggestion is to ask the children's librarian at the various possible branches and see if any of the branches have a similar 'secret organization' system. Cultivating a Children's Librarian can be a wonderful thing.

DS13's favorite book at that time was Eragon. He didn't like the sequal as well.

I like Lowis Lowry and Ursula LeGuin's Gifts series.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I agree that the usual "youth racks" at the library are hard to filter through. Does your library system allow you to search online or request them that way? I use that most of the time for our "school reading." I'll take the SOTW reading list, Caldecott, Great Book list, or whatever we're working through and order the books through the search engine. The library sends me an email notice when the books are in, and I can just run in to the front desk and check them out.

When our kids run through a book an hour, even cheap books add up fast. I'm constantly carting old books to our attic, but they still take over their rooms!!

One suggestion on the library, from parents of kids (10yo twins) who reads like yours - sometimes several books a day. For us, the issue is partly the $$ to buy books, but also the space. Even though we buy maybe only 15% of the books read in our house, they still accumulate like crazy.

Our kids only browse comics and graphic novels at the library and won't look at regular books. At the bookstore, they only look at the toys and Klutz books. However, our library has an online catalog where we request books - things we've seen at the bookstore, or found searching on authors/series/subjects the kids are into, etc. We also use Amazon to search for books and read reviews, and then request from the library. Our library even has new book lists once a month and I find some good ones there sometimes. We request the books online and have them sent to our neighborhood branch, and then stop at the library a couple times a week to pick up whatever has come in. We typically have ~50 books checked out at a time. The kids don't read everything we pick out, but we always have new material on hand and sometimes they surprise us by reading something out of their usual zone.

I wonder if kids are ever given a speed of reading test that also includes comprehension. It would be interesting to have that type of comparison to the norm.

I'm glad some people buy lots of books. I really stock up at garage sales.

I've also found this http://bookmooch.com/
you can list books you will give away and get some for free. This sounds good but I've never tried it.

Thanks for all the libray/book procurement suggestions!

I have used Ebay in the past for out of print books I wanted (like the older version of How Things Work and an old Jr Britannica) but I never thought to buy in bulk there. I bid on some stuff yesterday.

Our library system does allow you to search and reserve online. You can have the books delivered to the branch of your choice. But what happens is that the order comes in piecemeal and they only hold them for a few days. Also, there have been several instances where a book that is listed as available and waiting for me is nowhere to be found. In the past I have used the function to try and get several books in a range of difficulty on a particular theme. And if I end up with only half sometimes they are all too hard, or all too easy, or I get the first and fourth book in a series......

So maybe the solution is to go with quantity, not a targeted theme. Just order a whole boatload of decent books and let the boys read them hit or miss. It's obviously a good tool, maybe I have just been trying to use it with too much precision.

The idea of trying to cultivate a relationship with a librarian is also a good one. ALthough I've found the system a little lacking in practice, all of the librarians I have spoken with have been very kind and helpful.

I probably sound very impatient and lazy, but I work full-time so that makes it a little harder to stay on top of this stuff.

I missed this detail the first time I read this post. My son also exhibits this type of recall - knowing the location of material in the book. I remember only the story, not the location of the words. The day my son read 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea I picked up the book to quiz him because I was unconvinvced that he had read it cover to cover since he just hadn't had that much time to read that morning. I don't remember the story and in looking for something to ask hom about, I noticed a footnote. When I asked him about the content of the footnote, he rolled his eyes and said, "Mom, I don't read THOSE parts." Further inquiry revealed that "those parts" are footnotes. So despite his contention that he doesn't read them, he obviously recalled not only the content, but the location of the content.

This seems like a more...??visual?? approach to reading than my own. He also can't sound anythging out. His spelling is atrocious and his pronounciation of words he knows from reading and not from conversation it pretty funny at times. My other son isn't like this. He tests higher, but he doesn't read as compulsively and I don't think he's as fast.

Well, strictly speaking, he didn't recall the content of the footnote, did he? How could he, not having read it? And are you saying that he remembered the page numbers of all the footnotes that appeared in the book? (Or did he just tell you he doesn't read footnotes?)

An interesting memory if so, and certainly fairly visual in nature. I am similar, and often remember the page layout of many pages, even just the paragraph breaks if there's not much of visual interest. I have detected the same sort of thing in our five-year-old son. I would guess that these sort of memory attributes point to a weak form of eidetic memory-- like photographic memory but through an imperfect lens.

I wasn't clear - he did recall the content - he was just annoyed at being quizzed and was making the point that the footnotes ought to be off-limits. Obviously he had read it, otherwise he wouldn't have know the source was a footnote. I didn't preface the question with "This is from a footnote...." I guess he could have deduced that it was from a footnote if he had perfect recall of the enire book and could rule out any other location by elimination. But I am pretty sure that's not the case! I was just surprised that he knew the source of the content was a footnote. If someone asked me questions about a book I don't think I would be able to distinguish between what I had read in the footnotes and was was in the text. But maybe most people can?

I've never asked him about page numbers but I am sure he wouldn't recall them. If he had a memory like that I would have noticed by now. He has good memory, but I don't think it's exceptional. I *do* think there's something a little "off" in his wiring but it has not caused any real problems. I am just concerned about his writing, partially because he is starting a new school and i don't think it's a great fit and I am feeling guilty and anxious.

Ah, gotcha. Well, I hope that things turn out well at the new school. I am sure that his reading talent will stand him in wonderful stead throughout his life.

I wouldn't worry too much about mispronunciation of words he's already read-- I still every couple of years find out I'm mispronouncing something I learned from context in my early reading. It's probably a natural side effect of his greater reading level. Maybe you could encourage him to quickly look up on dictionary.com a new word if he's unsure about the pronunciation-- it will only take a sec, and there's a little icon that will actually pronounce the word if you click on it.

My DS still mispronounces a fair amount of words that he reads, which I still think is cute. Mine is clearly very visual and is a gifted speller, which must come from reading. In fact, when he mispronounces a word and we ask him to say it again, he just spells it for us. (When he was 3 and 4, he had trouble with his "ks" and "cs" so he'd just spell words to his friends and teachers. You can picture the eye-rolling from his little friends! LOL)

We'll have to look for that icon on dictionary.com. Thank you so much for sharing that!

Btw, I also learned the new word "eidetic" from this post! That was how I did so well in undergrad and law school, by mentally skimming the visuals of my notes for tests. I had a minor head injury shortly after that, and now it's not nearly as good. It was a great tool, though!

"Epitome" is the one that sticks out in my memory. I recognized and understood it as a read word, and recognized and understood it as a spoken word, but was well into my 20s before I realized they were the same word.

Last night I mentioned to DD that the "tsk" she was pronouncing as "tisk" was actually a clicky mouth-noise, and it was only during the conversation that I realized that "tut" has got to be the same clicky mouth-noise written differently.

That "er" as a placeholder noise is pronounced the same as the placeholder noise I'd normally write "uh," just written for non-rhotic speakers, was also a late-in-life surprise.

*lol* I bet we could start a whole thread about this. Mine were "awry" and "censored." I thought they were pronounced AW'-REE and KUN SOARED.' Like AlexsMom, I didn't realize until teens that that word I was reading was the same word I spoke as "awry".

I figured out censored somewhat earlier. I'll date myself here -- I remember seeing a censored sign being put on Daffy Duck's (or Elmer Fudd's, etc...) mouth when they were saying angry words. In my mind, I likened it to having a "condemned" sign put on their mouths, and sounded out the word similarly until I was in 5th or 6th grade.

It's really funny to have these conversations with my DC. DS8 understands so many of the words by context, but pronounces them incorrectly. Sometimes he insists that I've got the word wrong until we look it up in the dictionary.

DS was explaining something about the implications of Russell's paradox for Frege's set theory the other day. It would have been a lot more impressive if he hadn't pronounced the latter "Fredger"! (He was German, so it's actually more like Fray-guh.)

LOL! My kids do this all the time. One of them actually just used "epitome" in conversation last week, but pronounced it wrong. I guess that one gets a lot of people!

Et tu, Brute? I am daily looking up "sounds" at Merriam-Webster online for the very reasons mentioned already. I also use another site to make sure that my French and Spanish pronunciations are fairly close to a native speaker's version of a word. I <3 sites like these and use them often!

"indicted" - this one's just not fair! What rational person WOULDN'T say "in-dik-ted"?

Thanks for the Merriam-Webster online link. There are some great word games there.

Hi Jane

I just wanted to add not to worry about the acclerated reading program and the school or kids at his new school thinking he is cheating.

My DC attend a school with an AR program, they do not get credit for the books they read until they do take a comprehension test.

It is also on a sliding scale. For every question missed on the test they get a % off. This depends on how many points the book is worth.

EX: My DS is reading "Mysterious Benedict Society" it is worth 18 AR points. If he misses a question he would recieve 13 points if he misses 1/2 he gets nothing.

He is the link to AR website:

http://www.arbookfind.com/

The only thing I didn't like with our schools AR program was how it was monitored. The kids have to take the tests on "their time" recess, lunch or their library time. This was KILLER for my son. He has social issues and needs that time to bond with his classmates. The other issue I had was setting up the exam.
My son read a novel and went into the library to take his test.
He had to look up the test (library staffed with parent volunteers...this one on her cell).
He keyed in the wrong author and missed 40% which gave him no credit for the book. I now look up the test number before they take their tests... To make sure they are taking the right exam.
There is also no redo's.

Good luck at your new school...

Thank you MyHeartBrks,

The specific info is very helpful. I had already looked at the website browsed the books and and knew there was a computer test, but I was curious as to how efficiently the exams are administered. You have confirmed my suspicions!

But if it's not easy to take a test quickly the difference in accumulated points between my son and most of the other kids will be reduced. So this could be a good thing. I did not know that the points are adjusted based on the test score - I assumed it was all or nothing. That will be a good experience for my son and it will help to confirm or disprove my opinion of his comprehension.

This is another scenario I envision where he gets accused of cheating (if you have the time for another post)......

He's read a gazillion book and then he gets told to take a test. He's read so many books and the volunteer staff isn't that familiar with software and maybe my son can't spell the authors' names...so they end up deciding - OK, take one of the Harry Potter tests. Which he passes perfectly because he's read all those books 10x. But that gives him a LOT of points and he didn't first read it this school year. As a new student, does he have an unfair advantage because of all the books he's already read several times? I guess I should just coach him to be prepared with a few titles that he has read for the first time within the last week or month?

P.S. I know I am overthinking this, but I've got an awkward kid going into a so-so public school from a very different environment.

Hi Dottie - So in your experience resentment from the other kids hasn't been an issue?


OK, now I'm laughing at myself. Yeah, the other fourth graders probably aren't going to be THAT concerned.

Please see the link below for oral fluency reading statistics based on WCPM (word correct per minute). This will give you an idea of how fast your child reads in comparison to other children.

I have a very fast reader too. She had comprehension problems at first, but it was more due to age and maturity more than anything else. She could pronounce words perfectly with no idea what they meant in addition to having problems associating reading with how the real world worked at times.

She does not like writing very much either. Her gross and fine motor skills were the last thing to develop, so that may be part of it.

(This is the same kid who lost over 100 grade points last year because she did not put her name on her paper. In addition, she would habitually leave the punctuation off the last sentence on almost every paper because she wanted the assignment off her desk as soon as possible!)


http://www.readnaturally.com/pdf/oralreadingfluency.pdf

My DD was allowed to do AR in first grade (school starts in 2nd), and she found it very difficult to get test opportunities in.

Our school gives does AR as pass / fail, so missing a question doesn't interfere with points.


My DD had the book she wanted to test on with her, for "looking up test" purposes. Not getting the right test has never been an issue.

Her first grade teacher did warn us that in the grades where all the kids do AR, the teachers tend to limit the kids to at-grade-level or one-grade-up books. I'd asked if DD could test from any AR book she got from the school library, rather than having to use her one library book on a 1st or 2nd grade book.

With respect to "do other kids notice," first graders had reading logs - after you read a book, your parent recorded it in the log. I only gave DD "credit" for at-level books she'd read for the first time, and stopped writing books down once she'd filled her log for the month. She was disappointed that she didn't have the highest total at year-end (and if I'd known they were going to do totals, I'd have recorded more liberally), but it was a passing thing. And good for her to not automatically be on top.

Hi Jane,

Dottie is probably more accurate on how exactly the point system is figured out. My DD will start AR next year in 2nd grade and my DS has always received 100's on the tests he has taken except for the one with the wrong author he received 60% (6/10) and did not get credit for it.
I asked if he could retake the test the next day...but they said it was against policy. I didn't tell on the Volunteer mom (cell phones are not to be used during their time).

We just completed our 2nd year at this school so the AR was new for us. DS was all over it the first quarter and exactly what Dottie said about "competition" occurred.

DS did not want to upset anyone so he limits the amount of tests he takes. He read about 9 more books than he tested for. He wants kids to like him. He was treated pretty bad by the girl that was always the "top" reader that first quarter so he backed off and now they are friends, in fact she is his cotillion partner...LOL

My DS has always struggled socially...Yet he is the most social kid you will ever meet! Unfortuantly kids his age just don't want to discuss the Northwest merger with Delta or what metal composites the lunch benches are constructed with...
I came up with my user name My Heart Breaks...because it does a lot for him...such a great kid with a big heart. He just want to share all the interesting stuff he learns...:-/

He reads because he loves it and it's not a contest to him. He is reading The Bendict series but he is also reading a book on Elements...He gets up and gets a book before he even comes down stairs. I have tried to encourage him to test more...I even threatened to tell his teacher :-( He just tells me he didn't have time or he forgot...I let it go

The way they do the AR at our school is you can only count the books you read that quarter. I am sure it is different at other schools you should check with your school on its policy.

Good Luck !!! I am sure your son will shine !

This is a hoot. I may accidentally suggest this to our son.

Since 2nd grade, I've had to ask his teachers to stop ramping up his point goal because it's just getting him focused on the quantity. Whenever he approached his goal, the teacher moved it up... it was getting insane. The kid already reads all the danged time... and doesn't need any further encouragement.

His 1st quarter totals are always positively looney because he tests on whatever he read over the summer.

I really like the hoarding strategy, though...

So the other day I timed my DD (6) as she read aloud from a book that's about a fourth grade level, and she read about 125 words per minute. What does that actually mean?

Yes, I think that's an average 4th grade oral reading speed, per

IMHO, silent reading speed is probably more meaningful, because you don't have the "how fast can my mouth move" ceiling. It's harder to measure (and find norms for), though.

Yes, I have actually wondered if I should encourage her to read more *slowly*. She sometimes skips or slightly alters short words (not so as to affect meaning) when she reads aloud to me (which I occasionally ask her to do, mainly so I can help her with pronunciation of words she doesn't know very well).