DS5 will be starting K on the 10th, and I know that several of you have DC also starting K this year. And there are a few that are skipping K and a few that aren't in K until next year, even though they could be this year.

Anyway, I thought maybe we could have a "year long" discussion about our woes & successes this school year.

I think it's going to be an interesting one for us b/c DS5 had his K screening yesterday, and he came out and said "Mom, that was super easy. The last thing I had to do was JUST write my name".

Anyway, no need to respond now... just thought I'd create the thread so we can chat about this school year.

I'm in, though I'm still not sure what is up with DS5 (GT or no, LD or no, vision issues or no, etc.). It will definitely be a year of discovery for us with him!

My DS5 has not been officially tested or diagnosed either, Kriston. I just happened to notice there were a lot of us with kids going into K this fall.

I'll join the discussion as my DD5 is going into K (or extended day as they call it in Montessori) this year. She has not been tested yet and seems so different than her HG+ brother who is 6. She is still not independently reading---flat out refuses to even try stating she is "too young". She is a wonderful artist, very verbal and has lots of physical talents. Last year her teachers told me that she was very advanced in math but unfortunately her older brother really skews my perspective of advanced--since she is no where near he was at the same age.

I think it will be an interesting year. I'm curious how learning to read will go for her since last year her teachers told me that they thought she was going to be like DS6 and never use phonics to learn either. DS6 was more of a whole word reader and learned spontanteously just as he was turning 4.

DD5 is also a lot more of a teacher pleaser and is very social. I could see her hiding her abilities in school if it made her different than her peers.

Let's all hope for a good school year for our K'ers.

Ditto everything you said for my DS5, crisc. Maybe it's all a younger sibling/older sibling thing?

Anyway, I didn't mean to insinuate that kids had to have been tested or IDd or anything to be discussed here. Sorry if it sounded that way. I was just reflecting on my own nervousness about the year and how much we have to figure out about DS5.

<nervous teeth chattering>

I'd love to join in the discussion.

DD5, my oldest, is starting in K mid-August. We are going in on Monday for her kindergarten assessment. DD goes to a private, gifted school (she went there for most of pre-school as well) and this is considered the first "academic" year. The assessment should be for placement in math and reading groups.

I'm trying not to think too much about the assessment, but I do have some secret fears that dd will throw the whole thing by being silly or refusing to cooperate. By my best guess, she is quite capable of doing 3rd grade math and reading at that level or beyond. But sometimes she feels like doing it and other times she says, "Oh, I wasn't thinking with that part of my brain." Sometimes she refuses to count accurately, yet I know she can multiply, divide, add fractions, etc. I know that she will eventually find her way into the correct grouping (even she can't hide her abilities all year), but it would make life so much easier if she just started out in the right one.

I feel like we're making a big sacrifice by spending so much money to send her to this school because it's supposed to make life easier. So she can be with peers her age but learn at whatever grade level she needs. So now it's time for the school to step up to the plate ... and I'm praying no one is disappointed.

Wow, guess I was more stressed about it than I thought. Thanks for letting me vent. I love this board

I'm in! My DS4 (December birthday) will start kindergarten next month, and I couldn't be more excited. We're very fortunate in that he'll go to a private school with less than 10 kids per grade where, supposedly, every kid is taught at the level of his/her ability. They spend the first two weeks of school assessing each child's personality, learning style, and achievement levels in all core subjects, and then develop an individualized curriculum for each student based on the results. I'm dying to hear the results--not so much for what it will tell me about my son, but for what it will tell me about the school. It would be so wonderful to be able to hand his education over to people who really "get" him and what he needs. There have to be SOME good schools out there, right?

If you had told me before I had kids that I would send mine to private school, I wouldn't have believed you, but I also didn't know then that two-year-olds can read. So, here we are. After hearing so many horror stories on this board, I'm just happy to have this school as an option, even if it's going to cost us. Ironically, the school is less than 10 minutes from my house, but it's so small and low-profile that I probably never would have known it catered to gifted kids if it hadn't been for the Davidson site. Thank god for the internet!

Anyway, we're cautiously optimistic here.

I want to join in!

We're still not sure whether DD4 will be in K or 1st. She is enrolled in K at an arts charter school, but we have a meeting in 2 weeks to advocate for a skip to 1st. The principal told me they were all "philosophically opposed" to acceleration, but she did agree to schedule a meeting with the K and 1 teachers, special ed/school psychologist and us, so there's hope, right?

I gave her Nation Deceived and copies of the IAS last spring, but she didn't want to ask her busy staff to read them and told me they were being more than accomodating by agreeing to a meeting. I think they expect me to present the case for acceleration in general as well as DD's particulars.

I'm so nervous about what to say and what evidence to use (and what not to use!) so I educate without antagonizing. I think I'll start a new thread for people to share what specific pages from ND or articles and stats people have used to convince schools that acceleration isn't evil. ;-)

My DS5 will be starting K in late Aug. DS7's K year was a disaster and we ended up homeschooling part way through, but I'm hoping that things will be better for DS5. He's much more self-confident than DS7 and just seems more comfortable in his own skin. He isn't as globally advanced, so while he does crazy things with math, he isn't reading yet. I'm hopeful that having something concrete that he can learn at school will help. He's also just much more agreeable and gets along easier with people.

The school seems much more accommodating than the school DS7 went to. DS5's school is just our normal public elementary, but they have reading and math at the same times for K through 3rd so that kids who need to go to different levels can do so without feeling weird or missing out on other classes.

We'll continue homeschooling DS7 and I'm a bit nervous about having a foot in each "camp". I'm hopeful that this will be good for everyone and maybe bring a bit of balance into our days where the kids aren't together all the time and they get to have their own spaces and own sets of friends.

If all else fails, at least I already have experience pulling a child from school and homeschooling, lol.

We're right there with you, mamaandmore! We have a foot in each camp, too, a child nutty with math but not globally advanced like big brother, a go-along kid, etc.

However, we're sending him to the same public school that DS8 went to. If that doesn't work, we'll homeschool.

Private school is never off the table completely--nothing is if it might work!--but isn't being actively considered right now. So I'm very interested to hear about your year...

I will also have one going to PS K, plus a homeschooled DS8. DD is very excited, so we shall see what happens.

We're there too, and I am anxious. DS5, who is a DYS, didn't get into either of our local HG schools (separate rant); so we're sending him to a public language immersion school. I've met a few other moms and kids who will be there, and it's a multinational/multilingual group, very cool -- the problem being that as best I can tell, none of the other kids are reading yet. DS is reading several grade levels up (math is not nearly as high). I've been told that other parents in our same boat have chosen that school, so we are hoping for the best. I bite my nails (figuratively) anyway. When the mom of a rising 1st grader told me not to worry about reading because the teachers work with all the kids to make sure they know their letter sounds by the end of kindergarten... well, that didn't help much. lol. Still: one of the teachers told me she had a student in a K/1 combo class last year doing 4th grade math. A good sign, surely? Anyway, I have not asked about grade skipping (probably futile anyway). I get the feeling that they want to evaluate him themselves before we talk about accomodations, which is reasonable. And maybe everything will be OK... after all, he can't read a word in the target language. They have an active chess club, so I've started teaching him chess and he LOVES it. And one of the children we met already speaks three languages (this will be #4), so I am ridiculously jealous of that and hoping that she'll be in his class.

Ack. I need to quit thinking about it. (Not gonna happen. ha ha)

I'm on board with this idea! DS5(in a month) homeschooled K last year and is now enrolling in a local public school Independent Study program with a teacher who actually insisted on being his teacher and was willing to help us fight for an interdistrict transfer if we had any problems. I swear this teacher is a dream come true after the horrors of trying to find a place for Wolf all last year.

The good part of that struggle was that he got assessed by one of the charter schools we were looking at (probably because they didn't believe me about his abilities...) so now we have a better idea of what we're dealing with. Right now his reading and math are end of 2nd, but his english and writing are maybe mid to late 1st. His teacher says that we will start him wherever I think he is at and then go from there. The class is a K-1 class and the laws here say that due to his age he has to start in K, but she is moving him to 1 at the semester. The only drawback to the I.S. option is that they have very few kids Wolf's age and so there more than likely won't be a kiddie class.

Wow, there are a lot of us! I have a DD5 who is starting K this fall as well. We're going with a parochial school, but I have no idea how they will feel about accommodations. (We didn't test her until after we enrolled.) She'll be doing half day K, so I will probably be doing some after-schooling. I really wish that I had tested her earlier and started looking at schools a LOT earlier.

We are still looking for a good school fit. Who knows, maybe our current school will surprise me and be great about accommodations. (Do you see me holding my breath? ) Many of you sound like you have nice schooling situations lined up! How did you find out about those schools? Word of mouth? Did you just go through all the schools in the area?

JJsMom, my DD came out of her screening and said it was "silly". They asked her shapes, colors, and numbers 1-10. Sigh. Their screening is to weed out the kids not ready for K, not to see what the kids can really do.

Nikita, good luck with your meeting!

Half-day and afterschooling is often a really good solution for young GT kids, sdrothco. It's often a lot like pre-K: still more play-based than heavily academic, and that can be a good fit for HG+ kids. Plus full-day classes can be a lot for a 5yo to handle: more sitting, more overstimulation, less time to read or think or be alone (especially for the introverts), etc. I wouldn't worry too much yet.

My DS8 enjoyed his half-day K class with a good teacher who "got him" and time to himself. Full-day first grade--the "learn to read" year around here--with a not-good teacher for GT kids was a disaster. Bad! Very bad!

All kids are different, of course, but I have hope that K will go okay for you.

I would like to join in too. Our situation is different though. DS5 will start "K" but we are homeschooling. His older brother is hs and we decided to keep DS5 (HG+) at home as well. He will attend a small private school 2 afternoons/week mostly for social reasons and to give me a break

DS5 reads years ahead. He is advanced in math but not at the level his DYS brother was at his age. He loves social studies. We will do K handwriting curriculum but that's about it for K unless you count learning to tie his shoes

My biggest challenge will be homeschooling two children instead of one and teaching a child who has a very different personality than his older rules obeying brother.

Good luck to everyone

What a great idea!

JJsMom, thank you so much for starting this thread!!!


I am very worried about K for my DS5. (I have posted a bit on this before elsewhere) But I feel a lot better reading that other parents of Kers also have concerns. It is very nice to have the company.

We don't start till the last week of August.
DS was at a Montessori for 2.5 years that he enjoyed.
my concerns:
- PS K is such a short day, 3 hours. how do they have time to really get into an activity? I am hoping it won't be a waste of time since he will know most of what they are teaching already. The other reason I am concerned about the short day is that he is used to having more to do. Since I work full time I am worried about him being in a lame afterschool program for the bulk of his day. He's been in good (nurturing, self-directed, mixed age) full day preschools since he was 2.
- haven't tested so don't know LOG, but I am guessing MG. That could work in our favor IF we get a teacher that is a good fit.
OR
- he could wind up as the bored, class clown.
(we went on a tour at a preschool where he and the teacher were immediately butting heads)
- we are on the waiting list for a smaller charter school that has a more flexible (hopefully) approach than the traditional PS. DOn't know if we'll get in or if that will even be a good fit.

I am having a hard time waiting to know about placement etc. ... We might not know until school starts.

And you know I'm reading your posts with interest, LMom, since we might end up homeschooling two kids, too, with many of the same personality issues you have...

EastNWest - I have the same concerns about PS K with DS5. He will be going all day, but if he's too bored, watch out!

PS. I love that we have many different levels going on here (HS, PS, Private, etc...).

LOL!

I think half a day K is a better choice than a f/t school. Look at it more like a PreK. The child still gets lots of down time and has time to follow his/her interests. I think full time K which doesn't offer any accommodations is probably the worst match. That said DS6 attended a half day Montessori for K and it was still a disaster.


You better not even ask me about it in September. I am sure within 2 weeks I will dream about a nice boarding school for both of them We figured it last year with DS6, I hope we can do the same this year. I expect the first month to be quite challenging though.

ROFL! Fair enough. No questions for LMom until at least October.

And JJsMom, I LOVE the variety here. Honestly, the reason I come back to this forum is because it's darn near the only public forum I've found where people support one another's school choices without trying to "sell" the one their kids are in as "best." I think that means we can get more objective info to help us make choices for our own kids--the real scoop, as it were, about the pros and cons of every possible path. That is so valuable!

What a great group! We are HS DS4 (January b-day) since our local law prohibits him from being in public or private K. (Darn birthdate cut-offs!) Our hope is to have him enter 1st grade in 2010 at a public school with a strong gifted program (if we can get the administration on board for "acceleration").

Count me in! DD4 (October b-day) will be starting K full time at a private school. She already knows the teacher because DD6 had her before being skipped to 1st grade. So there's already a great relationship. I'm looking forward to the year!

DD4 is one of the ones who'll be skipping kindergarten. She has a very late August birthday. In some ways I'd rather let her skip 1 next year, but she's big, mature, and ready, and we figure a skip in the hand is worth two in the bush in her case. That tooth she lost recently will help her fit right in.

Val

I'm in. DD5 is skipping K and going to first. She is reading third grade level work, so it will be interesting.
I will be nervous about the skip anyway, because I am always nervous before the first day of school.
Thanks!

This is one of the things I love too. I think it is because we all understand that our kids are the exceptions to the rules and need what they need when they need it to an even larger extent than other children. Having to live with it myself makes it easier for me to understand how difficult the choices can be.

DS5 is starting K after Labor Day. Since the school tested him in the spring on the WJ-III, he has really taken off in math, and he's starting to show interest in spelling now. The principal told us they would hand pick a teacher and would differentiate, but we haven't yet spoken to the teacher to find out what they plan to do. I'm worried because DS5's K is part of a K-2 center, at a different location from higher grades. So in some things he'll be more advanced than most kids at the school. But then again, going to all-day school will be a tough transition, and he's still needs to learn to write/spell better.

Lots of worries about what might happen, but nothing to do until we get there!

Aye, that sums it up for me.

I third that.

Hi all! This has grown into such a great group!

I wanted to post an update because dd5 had her "kindergarten evaluation" today.

Just as a little background (since it's tough to keep everyone's details straight) ... dd5 is heading into full-day kindergarten at a private gifted school. She also attended most of pre-school there, so the teachers should be somewhat familiar with her. However, I felt concerned that dd could throw the evaluation with silliness or lack of effort and not be placed in the appropriate, challenging reading and math groups (which is a major reason we're sending her to this school).

Anyway, on the positive side, dd did take the screening seriously (I asked the teacher afterward - and she confirmed "no silliness"). However, that's as much feedback as I got from the teachers (there will be two kindergarten classes - dd met with each teacher for 10-15 minutes, one did reading the other math).

When I asked how it went, dd5 did give me a pretty detailed reply. She said she read a paragraph aloud (she told me all the details of the story) and then the teacher asked her some questions. DD5 then added, "It was really easy. Much easier than reading a fairy book!" (her favorite thing to read). She said the hardest thing she did in math was, "23+34" - which she also declared "easy."

So now, I'm past my worry of whether dd will throw the screening. And I've moved on to my worry that dd will be an outlier even in her gifted school. She said they never asked her to do any more advanced math (double digit subtraction, "carrying", multiplication, division, fractions -- all of which she can do). I'm calming myself with the idea that maybe they just need to screen her enough to put her in the "top" group ... and then they will continue to assess from there once the school year begins. And I hope no one thinks I mean "top" in any sort of competitive way. All I want is for her to be challenged. And double digit addition won't cut it.

Reading this back, I'm not sure if it's TMI (or maybe I'm being sensitive after reading too much of the bragging being discussed in another thread). I want to make sure I'm contributing information/stories/concerns that are of interest of the group. Someone please (gently) lead me back on task if I'm not.

Seems to be good information to me- not TMI. If your dd told you the questions were easy, she likely told the screening teachers that too. Hopefully, they were good listeners.

PS. TOTALLY jealous that she is even getting double digit addition in K. Wow! (Although, I know you and dd won't be satisfied with that.)

Thanks for the feedback, sittin pretty.

I guess my expectations are high because my tuition bill is high as well.

DH and I never planned to send our kids to private school. But we felt this school was such a good fit for DD - and we didn't know where else to turn.

IrishEyes, so glad your DD took her assessment seriously. I had similar worries about my DD either not taking her IQ test seriously or being too shy to say anything at all. We tested independently, and as you know those tests are not the cheapest thing in the world. She was very responsive and worked hard at it though, so we were very relieved.

Your school sounds really nice! It might take them a few weeks or so to really get a feel for what she needs, but I would *hope* a gifted school would be able to accommodate her needs. The gifted schools in our area are not the cheapest either, so I understand that you would want to get your moneys worth!

I didn't think your post had inappropriate information. That is what this board is here for, after all. To discuss all the aspects of getting our kids the things they need.

Irisheyes-That sums up our story perfectly. We had to write the tuition check this week, it was so painful I personally took it up there to give it to the admission director. I wanted to be very clear that we are putting and a lot of trust in the school to deliver what they promised.

DS4 will be starting k this year, decided on private after no less than 6 visits to the school(think we set a record ) plus several chats with our public school. We tried to make public work for us but unfortunately our school district is the pits and GT program doesn't start until 2nd grade.

Kiddo is really looking forward to the new school so we are hoping for the best. I made the mistake of taking him with me to drop the check and he thought it was the first day of school so he had a minor breakdown when after a brief campus tour I announced it was time to leave.

Looking forward to hearing everyones stories this year.

My biggest worry--and the reason I keep chiming in so much!--about the bragging thread is that people will feel like they shouldn't post or that they're being judged. Personally, I don't want ANYONE to feel self-conscious here! It defeats the whole purpose of this forum!

Seriously, Irisheyes, the reason this forum is here is for just what you're doing: so you can talk about your child in a way that is constructive for you and for others in a place where people get what you're going through. PLEASE don't question yourself!

I am glad you're through the testing stress. Phase 1 complete; time to move on to the Phase 2 stress.

Our testing is next week, though since it's not a GT school, he'll be asked to name the letters and numbers and that's about it, unless they've changed the test a lot since DS8 went through it.

I'm not stressed. Not about that, anyway... Lots of other worries...

Thanks for the update!

DS5 gets to meet his teacher tomorrow. I think that I'm more nervous than he is. I just hope she is the right fit for him!

Best of luck, JJsMom. We'd love to hear back on how the whole thing goes.

I am in and very excited to have a group of other parents dealing with the same issues. DD4 (March birthday) is starting kindergarten in two weeks. It is a private school with very small classes. It is supposed to be individually tailored to each child. She is reading fairly well and while she tested higher in verbal than math she surprised me the other day while sitting at the train station in London on vacation when she spontaneously said mommy did you know that four sets of three make twelve. I think she was bored and counting things. Anyway that seems more advanced to me than kindergarten math. I am going into the year hopeful that the school will be a good fit and that they will work with us. I want so badly for it to work out even though it is much more expensive than were planning on. Fingers Crossed.

I"m relatively a new member and still don't quite understand why people use the DD jargon. But, I'll give it a try since I found this thread quite interesting . . .

We moved into an area with supposedly great public schools in Southern California and, as our DS5 (currently) got older, we realized the the public school would not be able to accommodate his skills. We put him in a private school that has an early K program and that individualizes instruction, and the school does do a pretty good job. Over the summer, we tried Stanford's EPGY math program and DS5 loved it. He is doing math at the 3.5 grade level and when I brought the Stanford program to the private's school attention, they immediately agreed to work it into their curriculum for him. In fact, they wanted to further research the program to see if it would be appropriate for other students.

Now, I have a little less to worry about in terms of his engagement and placement at least in math, and we are looking forward to starting Stanford's English program once he turns 6.

Also, hoping that our plan works.

The reason I have heard is that it is a way to keep children's names off of public forums to both keep them safe and protect their privacy, the entire don't give away person information bit. However it gets confusing to me to keep track of which DS5 is which and I've found I can follow the trials and tribulations of the kids that are identified by nicknames or initials better so I nicknamed my guys for that reason. It also allows me to focus on personality over age.

DS5 is starting out in First grade in the fall, but this will be his first "real" school experience. He was in a montessori program for about 9 hours a week for most of last year, but that is about it. So we are excited, but obviously a little anxious. Hope I can still join in even though he isn't officially going into K. : ) I am hoping that there is much success for our children this year and that we all can be the advocates that they need.

There are a lot of kids starting K on this forum. DD4, turns 5 end of Sept, is going to the Jesuit school. They will accelerate, but that is only after they are there. I am not worried about that -- figured DD will tell the teacher she is bored enough times. But I am focused on extra-curricular like the piano and the mandarin to fill in.

I also see the mix in her brain. A few days ago, she turns to me and says 3X3+3 is 12. But if I gave her an equation, she might just look at it. She was calculating how many weeks of swim camp she had. She did 2 sessions of 2 weeks each, then broke for oceanography and tennis, and is doing another session of swim camp. She is walking along and figures it out.

Based on the research, the full IQ isn't known until around approx 7 right, or really until after the puberty development. So I want to feed her needs on several levels, just not the math and reading. She can do that at advanced levels. But if I give her Mandarin lessons and the piano, it will do the synapse thing in other areas, and give her extra skills in the increasingly competitive world.

We had our first official kindergarten function tonight. I think it went pretty well. We got a few comments about her being 4, like is she ready to which I wanted to answer "no she is not ready we just want to torture her), but I just politely said that is what we have told and left it at that. She did not look terribly small compared to the others, many of whom will be 6 in the fall. She was not intimidated by the other kids but did not seem terribly interested in playing with them but this has always been life with DD. Not exactly a social butterfly until she warms up. I so hope this is the right move, goodness knows I have stressed about whether we are doing the right thing for months now. Please send us your good thoughts! I want this to work out so so badly.

Of course, you can. I don't really consider DS5 to be K since he's going to be homeschooled.

Absolutely, shellymos...

And we had our teacher meet n greet today. It did NOT go very well, initially. I don't think that DS realized how many kids will really be at school. His class size is really small, which is good. But he knows no one in his class. He does not have a hard time making friends at all - but with us, his parents around, he plays the "shy" game. I know he was overwhelmed because he was not prepared. So I sat him down and explained to him what is going to happen, as far as going to his class first, what happens at lunch, when he has PE, and where he goes for that, etc... he left with all smiles and even asked for a Spirit t-shirt.

Whew. This is the ONE thing that keeps me from pushing for him to skip. He's not immature, and he makes friends easily, etc... but he has his OE moments for sure.

Oh, and his teacher was actually EXCITED for me to tell her that he's reading at least 3 grades above & doing math at least 1-2 grades above. When I told her if he starts to act up to challenge him (or feed him - lol), her eyes lit up. So I'm going to sit down and write her a short (I cannot overwhelm her now! LOL) note describing what we've been learning over the summer, etc... I know nothing about any of the K teachers at the school, but hopefully we got a winner.

We went yesterday to enroll DS5 for K and I love the vibe I got from the school! It was such a difference from the school DS7 went to. The new school was very welcoming and friendly, the Principal, who was in the office when we got there, spoke to all 3 kids and barely raised an eyebrow when the kids explained that only DS5 was enrolling because DS7 homeschools. DDalmost3 asked him if she could go to school there now, lol.

We'll have open house in 2 weeks and we'll get to meet his teacher, DS5 can't wait to see his classroom!

I love it, so true. Both of those work for or DS5 a well. Of course I hope that they truly can challenge him, because if not they may be surprised if he keeps acting out. I am concerned with DS just because of his behaviors. His behaviors were fine in his montessori school....but there were like 10 kids and 2 adults. He will have over 20 and only one adult. That will be quite a change for him, and I am thinking not a good one at all. I am almost 100% there will be some behavior problems this next year, but I am hoping and praying it is manageable and they continue to work with him.

I was concerned about the class size too. Do they not have parapros where your DS is, shellymos?

When looking for DS5's name on the teacher assignment sheets, I noticed a few of the K classes had longer lists than others. There are 7 K classes at his school, which sounds like a lot, but there are less than 800 kids total in the school, which is not much around our metro area. But having 7 K classes allows the school to keep really small class sizes. DS's class list was the second smallest, which I was EXTREMELY excited about. There are like 12 kids with a parapro too. It's not uncommon to find schools with 25 kids per class around here, and his pre-K class had 20 kids and 2 teachers. So at least he will not be overwhelmed in that aspect. I just hope he remembers to continue the progress he made with respecting the fact that not all the kids in his class will be at his level. In pre-K, he started out being that kid that blurted out all the answers and answering for other kids when they took too long or got things wrong... but his teachers were excellent, considering the limited amount of extra things they could give him, in giving him more responsibilities and challenges and helping him realize that everyone learns at a different rate, it's ok to get things wrong, etc...

I did find out that our county is now listed as "needs improvement" by the NCLB standards this year. Sadly, the county as a whole used to be the top rated in the state (way back when I was in school). DS's school is not a "failing" school at all, but because of this ranking, we have the ability to change him to any county school of our choice (as long as there is room now - after the registration/class assignments have been completed) without having to jump over mountains (i.e., reasons of "hardship" or the school itself being a failing school) to move DS if need be. I have heard wonderful things about the school in our district - at least the elementary school, but it's REALLY nice to know the option is out there!

Wow, JJsmom, you are lucky to have such small classes at your school! Our local public school is expecting about 200 students, and last I checked there were only 7 teachers! (I think there will be 8, but that still makes 25 kids/class).

I have been busy trying to contact folks at our school, so we can meet with the teacher, the school nurse, and the food services director. (DS5 has peanut/tree nut/dairy allergies, just to make him even more different!) School doesn't start until after Labor Day, so it's been tough getting hold of people. And though the principal promised hand-picking of the teacher, I still don't know if this has happened, so of course I worry. (And I have heard wonderful things about the teacher he's supposed to get, so I really hope it happens!)

LOL. This is so true! I am glad you liked the teacher. The small class size is a really nice bonus. Is it possible that his class has lots of kids with IEP and therefore is smaller than the other K classes?

I assume that is like an extra person....we usually call them paras or paraprofessionals. Every place calls them something different. But not in our district, we don't have them at all, except for in self-contained special education classrooms. We also don't have bus monitors either, which really bothers me because I have a hard time driving and keeping control of my vehicle at times with 2 in the seat....imagine busdrivers doing it by themselves, that is pretty irresponsible to me. Anyhow I do work in a school that has pre-k and K and they have paras in every classroom (and bus monitors)....and their classes are smaller as well. It's a great school but is also in a district with a lot of "needs improvement" schools.

Yeah, they call them parapros down here (or paraprofessionals, which of course is what they are). DS5's school has them in every classroom. They don't have bus monitors, but they also don't completely fill them up completely and have assigned seats, etc... of course, DS is not riding the bus yet. He's my first DC, so I'm a mess with him just going into elementary, let alone riding the bus!!!

Sorry for the late reply, but count me in!

DS5 will be starting K in the local public school in a few weeks. We requested a skip to 1st grade, but the policy here is that they must start in the grade they would normally start in (by age) and then they will assess and move up as appropriate.

I am completely stressed out about the upcoming school year! The school, so far, has been completely wonderful! I just spoke to the teacher who is coordinating my son's education plan, and she said that a team of people will be meeting the week before school to go over the plan, provide input, etc. Then they want to meet with me to go over the plan. I'm a bit nervous to see what they have come up with, but I think they really "get" my son, so hopefully it will be challenging for him.

The real wildcard is DS himself! We've had various behavior issues with him, which I hope won't continue this year. So, things will be very interesting. Ah! The number of gray hairs on my head grows by the day....

I look forward to hearing how everyone is doing this year, and wish everyone a successful school year!

I hear you, I am anxious about the whole bus thing too as he is my first child going to school as well. This is all new to me and the bus idea is a little overwhelming. I am sure he will survive it. I guess we will see.

I just want to say I feel the same exact way, DS definitely has his behaviors as well. Mostly in groups and settings that seem somewhat like school will be. At home he is pretty decent (although we had two horrible days last week but he seems to be over whatever hormones were going on there). He has his moments, and I keep praying that in the next few weeks before school starts that he matures greatly....although I am a little skeptical that that can happen in 4 weeks.

m2gts - I'm the same way. Like at the orientation thing, DS had a meltdown from being totally overwhelmed with how many people were there, not knowing anyone in his class, etc... then today, he didn't even want anyone to walk him to his classroom for the first day. It's like he's Mr. Independent Amazingly Behaved one day and the next he's 2yrs old again. And I'm hoping the same thing happens with my DS - the whole start in K, then assess him to see if he needs to be in a different class/grade.

I do find it "funny" that he was watching the weather like a hawk this morning. He was very upset when they said there was a chance of rain b/c he has PE today (they do an "extras" rotation for PE, Music, Art, etc). He was so sad that he might not have it b/c of the weather. But when I explained there was a gym, he was like "whew"! He's more excited about PE (and his other "extras") than regular class b/c he knows he's going to be bored.

PS. Mom was a little bit of a mess this morning, but she survived - LOL

DS didn't even have an orientation, which worries me a lot. He is just going to take a bus (thankfully we did have a tour ride with just our family) and then they mill them all into the cafeteria and his teacher will take them to their classroom (which he hasn't seen yet). He is skipping K, so this is all new to him. He went to the school once for a couple hours in the spring and they stuck him in a couple classrooms to see how he did. He enjoyed that. So that is what he knows. It makes me kind of sad because for K they have an orientation, and he is K age, but not going into K...so no orientation. The did do a bus ride for us, and I requested going in the day before school but was told that we would have to check with teacher and see because they are going to be really busy. I do think the school is good so far, but I am still a little justifiably apprehensive.

Good luck! to all the families starting today.

Hang in there! to all the parents who have to wait another few weeks before the first day.

Good wishes! to all the homeschoolers...

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that day #1 was at least enjoyable enough for DS to look forward to day #2. I'm off to pick him up (nice getting off of work in time to be home for him).

Welp, DS didn't do a thing in K today (according to him), but he told me all about lunch. Ha! I had both his teacher and his parapro come up to me when I picked him up (he's a car rider, but due to the mad chaos on the first day, I parked on the street and walked to the entrance). His teacher said he was so well behaved and can tell already that he IS smart. Nice that she noticed on the first day. Now hopefully she's up for the challenge!

Thanks for the update. Here's to hoping his teacher will try to meet his needs...!

LOL, My DS almost always scopes things out before acting out. That's how he is. He looks around for that one kid that is acting out and wants he finds them he starts in. If there isn't one he usually does okay (but there always is at least one) I am hopeful he will get a few good days in there of good behavior....long enough for the teacher to like him and see that he can do it. That would be really helpful.

JJsMom - sounds like a good first day! Is he excited to go back tomorrow (or, at the very least, willing)?

shellymos - I think that's the key - hoping your DS is well behaved for long enough to the teacher to like him! We're hoping that here too.

shellymos - the good thing for me is that DS is usually that cute boy with all the ladies, so he rarely has time to be with the class clown. DH was questioning DS's "tastes" a few years ago (not that it matters for us personally), but he's just the smart boy - getting in with the ladies early.

and st pauli girl - he's now asked to ride the bus everyday, so he's at least willing to go! ha. i really won't be surprised if they decide to have a parent/teacher conference earlier than expected.

JJsMom - does sound like he had a decent first day. I hope he does well on the bus. That bus thing scares me as well. Luckily there are some older neighborhood boys who treat my son like a little brother (in a good way! ), and I've already been told by their mother that they will look out for my son.

I'm finding you late, but I'd love to join this group as well. Great idea JJsMom. Glad to hear your little one had such a good first day.

DS5 starts K Aug. 31. I'm very nervous that he's so far ahead of most of the other kids that he'll get ignored/not have any reading partners, etc. Do you think that's necessary? Our school has lots of kids enter K who don't yet know letters, so wide variety of skill levels.

DS7 is at same school, 1 year accel. He's happy. But DS5 is reading somewhere in 2nd grade level already, best I can tell, and is about 1 year accel. in math. Have never had him tested so will be interesting to see what teacher has to say. I'm kinda worried the K teachers won't even have books at his level in the classroom (something DS7's 1st grade teacher tipped me off to in June).

I just keep reminding myself that he's gotten this far learning with me, so even if K is a bit of a throwaway year, he'll be fine. Can you tell I'm nervous! ;-)

I've been out of town and am just now catching up on some updates.

JJsMom - sounds like a really positive beginning of school. I'll keep my fingers crossed that it stays that way!

Thanks to everyone who posted. I'm really enjoying reading about all of the starts to the year.

Well, of course, after yesterday, who knows what is next... either DS isn't getting enough sleep at night or he's not telling me something... or maybe I've "misdiagnosed" him.

*sigh*

at least his fit was at home and not at the school. whew.

We had our meeting with the school yesterday about DD4 skipping K, and got the call this morning saying she can start 1st next week!

I'm so relieved it is all over. (For now.) I have been so stressed out about the meeting for months and we didn't have a good backup solution if it didn't work out.

First day of school is next Wednesday. I'm getting nervous, but DD is super calm. It is great to hear about everyone elses start of school adventures. I hope all the DC have a great school year.

That's great news! Way to go re: your advocacy. Good luck next week.

I have to go back and read everything, because it's very late.

DD5 is going into K next Wednesday. It's going to be a weird year, I think. I know it perhaps doesn't

She's just mostly done with her first chapter book (Dinosaurs before Dark). She's been reading independently for a year now.

She just asked me to get her "books about math" from the library, so I picked up a few Time Life "I Love Math" books that are really stories with lots of math concepts covered. And she understands them. She's asked to do math at home over the summer. Not a lot of problems, but some, just for fun.

But she's worried K will be hard. She has selective mutism too, so even though she's had different tests (not IQ tests per se) to show she is 2-3 years ahead of her age.

They do Saxon Math at school. Not a great program for gifted kids I hear due to the spiraling curriculum.

She also didn't get the teacher we both wanted. I know nothing about her, but new the other half-day kindy teacher well since dd1 had her 2 years ago. We both cried (of course I didn't let dd5 see me cry about it). The only good thing to come from it is that she's not in the same class as a friend of hers who is a little snotty and bossy.

She *could* be grade skipped, if it weren't for the selective mutism she has. I have to see how that goes this year first, before I push to move her up if she's getting bored. Unlike dd7, she definitely complains loudly when she finds something boring.

I am prepared to keep afterschooling her sister and her, hopefully to make up for any deficits in the curriculum. I've been doing this for 2 years now though because they've been asking me to do things at home to learn more.


****

Sorry about the confusion, I didn't realize that the convention is to write dd+age, not dd+birth order.

DD4 (almost 5, as she reminds us frequently) is starting 1st on the 1st and will likely get extra acceleration in reading. DS7 will also get a +1 acceleration in reading.

She delights in telling people that she's skipping kindergarten, even though we haven't really made much of it. I think she's pretty chuffed with herself for passing the tests. Reactions have been quite positive overall; I think her very young age and cheery innocence about the whole thing helps. She also only tells people she knows and likes, which probably helps, too.

Does anyone else's little one talk about grade-skips?

Val

I'm joining in here with another kindergartener. DS5 will be six in a month. He's going to a charter school, it does not have a gifted program but is set up more to handle a wide range of abilities. It's an all day program, which I'm nervous about, but the school seemed to be a better choice. He hasn't been assessed but has a lot of the traits, he reads well, understands things quickly, he's been obsessed with the Magic School Bus for two years now. The administrator of his preschool felt strongly that he is gifted.

My biggest concern is his perfectionism. If he can't do something instantly he either gets frustrated or goofy and quits. He sticks to what he knows and is reluctant to move past it. I've questioned my judgment about him being gifted, maybe I'm trying to see something that isn't there, because it seems like avoiding a challenge is so atypical of a gifted child. It is there though, I see it in a lot of different ways, he just rebels when he knows he's being challenged.

I'm glad I found all of you and hope to learn and contribute. I'm fortunate that IRL most people who know him see what I'm talking about and will bring it up to me. I've had some smart aleck comments though if I mention gifted education. Online I belong to a parenting board and I don't like to bring it up there, too many people think it's all about the parent seeing something they want. They don't understand that I wouldn't choose to have his schooling be harder.

I can't believe some of the people here have a four year old who is starting first grade this year! Our public school system wouldn't even let my four year old start kindergarten, even though he's ready for first and could pass for a six year old. That's part of the reason why we're going private.

DD will be attending a private school too. The public school might even have discouraged us from even sending her to kindergarten....

Val

Hi MNMom! so glad u found us. There are so many myths about gifted kids! In fact gifted kids are an incredibly diverse group. There are many many highly gifted kids who become afraid or reluctant to take on challenges. I believe that one common pathway to this kind of perfectionism is when a child spends 'too much' time in educational setting which is far below the child's readiness level. keep reading and posting ....you are welcome here! best wishes grinity

Our public school uses a guided reading curriculum and each child reads at their level every single day whether it is a K level, 2nd, 4th etc. many public schools have gone to this model. As far as acceleration goes, does it really benefit a profoundly gifted child to move up one grade level when they are functioning many grade levels above their same age peers? At least if they are with their age level peers they "fit in" a little in one respect, what is the point of a single grade acceleration? I really try to consider what our ultimate goal is for our DS, not just his Kindergarten year.

Woof. That's really great. Public schools in our area don't do that.



I think this depends a lot on the child. Some HG+ kids don't fit with age-level peers at all. Some do.

My DS9 fit in pretty well with his age-level peers before skipping third. But he was going barmy doing grade-level maths, which was way below his level. After the skip he got extra acceleration in maths and he started spending time with a couple kids who are 2 years older than him, and he got on with them really well.

He's doing another skip this year to 6th. I'm hoping it'll work out socially. We'll see.



I agree that single skips aren't always great solutions. They mitigate the boredom, I suppose.

My opinion: all schools should be ability grouped. If there was a will, this would be doable. The schools could schedule maths/reading/art/whatever at the same time and the kids would just rotate to where they belonged.

We sacrifice to send our kids to private schools that ability group, which is why DD4 (soon 5) will be able to skip K and start 1st. They're going to give her an extra acceleration in reading. Our local public schools are anti-skip and anti-subject acceleration, and so DD, who practically eats books, would be forced to name letters and the sounds they make. Ouch!

Val

This is my DS5.5 too (and our questioning his giftedness as well).

Someone catch me quick - before I faint!

I sent an email to DS5.5's K teacher this weekend. I let her know where he was academically (as we have yet to be able to sit down and talk - plus it's only been a week). And to see what she could give us to keep him challenged, etc, at home (reverse psychology here - ha).

Anwyay, he's out today b/c he has a stomach bug - yuck, but I did get this:


Please, PLEASE let something change!!!!

Do not faint! Remain calm! This is a good sign, but it's just the begining. Smile at the universe, say 'of course they want to help us' and put it out of your mind until you have more info. This kind of sitiatution tends to be rollercoaster-ish. Wait and see, and say a few prayers of gratitude. It's almost never as full or as fast as you might want, but every little bit helps!

The main thing is that your whole family probably rides on your emotional energy, so stay calm and centered. I wish it wasn't like this - but it usually is.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Thanks Grinity - thankfully I'm at work, so no one can really see my anxiety, excitement, nervousness, etc... except of course my coworkers, but that's neither here nor there.

Hoping for good news, JJsMom!

Thanks - even if it's just "we recognize he's smart and needs more of a challenge so here's extra work" type conversation or a "can we take the next week and then evaluate things", etc... The fact that I there is two way conversation that isn't 100% negative makes me happy at this point!

Oh, I completely agree! Talking is good!

Just got our teacher assignment for K. DS5's new teacher is the one who told me that she had a student last year doing 4th grade math in a combined K/1 class. DS won't be in a combined class, but surely this is a good sign. Fingers crossed...

Good luck, JJsMom!

I just want to wish all those who are starting the school journey this year Good Luck!

Keep talking and advocating...it really can work. We were able to get a much-needed gradeskip for DS after he attended a few months of Kindergarten (2007-2008 school year).

DS5 got his teacher assignment, too. He has a teacher who is new to K this year. She taught 2nd grade for two years. Hopefully that means that she might recognize a kid doing more advanced work when she sees it, and the fact that she's a relatively new teacher means that she's flexible.

Fingers crossed!

Fingers crossed for you Kriston! And you too NCMom - that's DEFINITELY a good sign!

UUGGHHHH!!!

I'm totally anxious to see how things go this year, DS is starting K at our local public school in 2 weeks. The school seems very receptive and is coming up with an education plan for him. I'll be meeting with them to go over the plan before school starts. Everyone I've talked to (both in and out of this school), says how great it is. All sounds good, at least for now....

....then what do I hear? The word on the street is that there will be some redistricting and DS will have to go to a different school after this year. UUGGHHH!!!!

I know we haven't even started this year yet, and I shouldn't even worry about it, try to take one step at a time, etc., etc., etc., but honestly, that just felt like a punch in the gut!

Thanks for listening to my rant. Sorry if it was slightly off topic.

Thank you for the welcome, I hope to understand better so I can help him get more comfortable with challenging himself.

Val asked, "Does anyone else's little one talk about grade-skips?"

As we were advocating for the grade skip, we hadn�t told DD what we were doing, just that the IQ and Achievement testing she had done was information for the school to use to put her in the class where she could learn best and that wherever they placed her was going to be great. (Even though we were totally against kindergarten placement.) When we told DD4 last week that she was placed in the first grade classroom, she responded with a big smile of relief and, �I was hoping that it wasn�t kindergarten. I was really hoping it was third grade � you know, the first, second, third grade classroom? � but first grade is really good too.� Big smile.

But since then she is excitedly telling everyone that she is starting school next week and she�s going to be in first grade. She�s not bragging about the skip because I don�t think she realizes that it�s an unusual thing to do. And most people that know her already know about our advocacy efforts. But I did have some cringeworthy moments yesterday when I took her for her back-to-school haircut and after her first grade announcement was asked how old she was. �Four and a half.� Suddenly we got looks from all around. I just gently deflected the questions and busied myself with DS1. ;-)

Ms Friz, the school entry cut-off date in our state is Dec. 2nd - about a quarter of incoming kindergartners are still 4. So DD is just in the young group for K. But you�re right that it�s not the usual � it took months of advocacy to get the grade skip approved by our public charter school. We would love to have the option of private, but in our area all the private schools are very religious and set in their traditional ways. We ended up choosing a charter school that is a 50 minute commute each way. I still don�t think I fully realize what we�ve got ourselves into � her preschool was � mile from our house and we couldn�t get there on time. LOL

The great commute starts tomorrow � wish us luck!

good luck Nikita!

And m2gts - at least if they have all the educational plans and whatnot on file for your DS, the "new" school will have them for their records.

And I just got off the phone with DS5's K teacher - they had already begun the process of acceleration to 1st last week (before I even emailed her asking what DH and I can do to help keep DS challenged this year). Of course, that was just her talking to the Principal and the Guidance Counselor and Target (gifted) teacher. He took his first round of tests today (more of a let's see where he really is type thing), and I will be given the forms to fill out/sign for her this afternoon to approve the rest of the process!!! It's a 4-6 week process, but that would get him into 1st grade prior to the first 9 week session ending.

The best part of my conversation with his teacher, besides that she recognizes he's smarter than the average kindergarten bear, is that she mentioned IF he doesn't accelerate, she has already sat down and worked on looking for things to keep him challenged throughout the rest of the year.

And a funny - my biggest issue with whole grade acceleration has been his maturity level. The first thing out of her mouth is that she has recognized that his maturity level is above level as well (so Mom, it's only with you that he acts crazy!!!).

*sigh*

Congratulations on your advocacy! My state just moved the kindy cut off back to August 31 so that entering students would be "more mature." DS4 has a December birthday, so even talk of kindy enrollment this year literally brought laughs from the school. If I had asked for first, they would have questioned my sanity.

MsFriz - we had the same issue. DS's bday is in December. Our cutoff is Sept 1. They laughed and made every excuse under the sun not to even talk with me/DS. But he has a K teacher that has obviously recognized his abilities and had already begun the process of whole grade acceleration without me mentioning it. Hopefully, if you are unable to get DS where he needs to be now, it will come!

JJsmom - that's a good point about having his plan on record - I hadn't thought of that. I guess it was kind of late last night, I was tired, and I just wasn't thinking straight!

Great news about your son! That sounds like a wonderful teacher that he has, to recognize his abilities and recommend acceleration. Continued best of luck!

Thanks! And apparently (we had Open House last night) she has spent most of her 16 years of teaching as a 1st or 2nd grade teacher, so obviously she has some experience with what is taught at those levels and whatnot.

albs, welcome - and for the record, i've learned more and talked more about myself and my experiences, frustrations, etc than I have my DS5.5!!! So talk away, vent, share away!

Albs, glad to have you with us.

And JJsMom, great news about the acceleration! I'm so happy that hurdle went so smoothly for you! It sounds like you've got a great thing going.

I wanted to report that kindergarten started this week for dd5. The good news is - she loves it. I can't say much about the academics because I believe they are still assessing some kids for reading/math groups (if the parents didn't bring them in over the summer).

I do feel good about dd's teacher. The word on the street is that she gets all the high level readers. A friend's child had this same teacher last year and was reading at a 5th grade level. So it sounds like we may have an appropriate reading placement for dd5. Now we'll just see about math...

MsFriz - in CA the cutoff is Dec.2nd, but if a child has a birthday between Dec.2nd and sometime in March, they can join kindergarten once they turn 5. This is supposedly with the understanding that the child will do an additional year of kindergarten the next year, but it gets them into school and can be a jumping off point to discuss acceleration to first grade the next year. Any chance your state has a similar law and your daughter could join K after her December birthday?

Good luck!

Thanks for the tip, but I've given up on public school for now and have enrolled my son in a small private school with a later birthday cutoff. He's starting kindergarten next Wednesday. This way he'll always have a "skip" built in, even if he does end up in public school some day. I think it's great though that other people have been able to work the public system to get their kids where they need to be.

Not too much information at all! We're glad you're here, albs! Please stick around!

peace
minnie

Well, I just got an email from the one teacher who is helping to create an education plan for my son. (Recap: he starts school on Aug. 31, starts in K, but we've requested a skip to first. School policy is that they start in K, and will be assessed after a month or so and will possibly grade skip then).

So, I'll be meeting next week with my son's Kindergarten teacher, the Reading Specialist, the principal, and the assistant principal. Talk about being outnumbered! (Unfortunately, the meeting is in the morning and my husband is unable to take off work.) I'm anxious to see what they came up with. This should be interesting.....

\\Good luck to you, hopefully they'll be open-minded about it.

good luck!!!!

Ugh. Am on pins and needles waiting for teacher assignment for DS5 (public school starts Monday). All his academic needs get complicated by the fact that he also has a health issue. Three of the five teachers this year are new K teachers. What to address first -- how to handle his asthma properly or the fact that he's just started reading an A to Z Mystery???

So, am hoping against hope that he lands with the lead K teacher, but am not overly optimistic ...

Me too! (for different reasons) School starts mid week. There is a Meet-n-Greet this evening to find out teacher assignments, meet the teacher and the principal. I am going in cold - don't know anything about the teaching styles, personalities...

When I called the office when they reopened mid-august they said to wait for tonight. sigh.

The letter we got announcing the week's schedule says, "Kindergarten experiences are designed to help your child learn to get along with others, cooperate, listen and gain a level of independence. yada yada"

sigh again. He has been doing this for years already...

I am not one to get nervous but I am filled with anticipation. I am probably worrying for nothing, imagining all the things that could go wrong re: placement. I should just relax, right? LOL

My ds5's biggest concern is that his friends from preschool are going to different elementary schools. He is very attached to them. He does make new friends easily, so once he gets there it will be ok. In the mean time, he is very concerned.

Wishing you both good luck -- and the best possible outcome (whatever that may be)!

EastnWest - DS5.5 was very nervous at his meet n greet, especially b/c no one he knew was in his class. At first, I was upset for him, but I think it was a good thing for DS. His teacher was able to realize his potential easier because he didn't have his normal distractions (i.e., former classmates). LOL.

Everything will be ok!

Got an email from the teacher that DD4 is playing a lot by herself and that she does not like to play with other kids even when asked to do so. I asked DD about how she likes to play at school and she told me that she likes to play by herself because the other kids "mess up" her stuff and that she "gets more done" when she plays alone. She is very intense when she plays and seems to have a game plan. She seems happy and not lonely to me. Why is it that preferring to be alone is such a bad thing? If she is happy with it why can't her teacher be? Any thoughts or suggestions? Am I off here in my thinking?

Irisheyes and JJsMom -

Thanks so much!

It turned out to be good and not so good.

the good - one of his best buddies from preschool will be attending the same school, and ***drumroll*** they are assigned to the same teacher! What a huge relief on that front. both boys are going to be so excited. Hopefully, they won't be too excited. we may have just lost the advantage that your son had JJsmom.

now the not so good - I am very disheartened by the class itself. The teacher seems nice enough, but the set-up seems so demoralizing! what is with the expectations! Why do they have to color in the lines? Why does a 5 year old need to know how to write a sentence with correct capitalization and spaces between each word? Why is there only one teacher for 25 kids? (not inclduing the morning aid and parent volunteers) Why is there no music, PE, etc. unless the parents' fund raise? When will their individuality, spontaneity, and instincts be nurtured? Well, I guess I know the answer to that one: un-after schooling at home!

My DH says I need to relax. it is only a few hours a day...
He is right. I guess I have an ideal in my head that will have to wait to be realized.

thanks for listening...


EW

from one of your previous posts. maybe your dd is just taking her time. makes sense to play by herself until she finds a kindred spirit.

maybe point that out to the teacher?

alli-cat10,

I remember feeling stung when dd (then 4)'s pre-k teacher told us at the parent/teacher conference that she was worried about dd's sociability because she didn't greet the other kids when she entered the classroom in the morning. She just went directly to a certain area of the room and started playing by herself.

But after a couple of weeks of worry -- and prodding dd with questions about whether she played with the other children -- I just let it be. I decided, why shouldn't she be allowed to do what she wants with her own "free choice" time?

That being said, I also knew that dd did have friends in the class (because she had been at the same school for awhile and I had previously had the chance to observe when volunteering and at birthday parties, etc).

Perhaps you could email the teacher back -- tell her you appreciate her looking out for dd -- but that she does take some time to warm up. You might ask her for suggestions of children in the class who may have similar interests as your dd and then set up an outside play date. I really think at this age, familiarity breeds friendship. Plus, one on one can be a lot easier for some kids than the madness of the playground.

And on the plus side, at least you have a teacher who is paying attention to the kids.

Don't worry about it. There is nothing wrong with playing on her own as long as she is happy and not rude to the other kids. Not everybody is an extrovert and/or wants to be around other people.

At the last year PreK conference I got the same comments about DS5. I was surprised since he is an outgoing kid at least compare to his older brother, but truth to be told he prefers to play with older brother. As I am typing this he is having a great time with his 11 year old cousin. Anyway by the end of the school year he was one of the most popular kids having bunch of good friends.

Alli-cat:

Probably fine that she plays on her own, but you might want to encourage her with ways to respond to the other kids when she feels like they are messing her stuff up. She does need those skills. My boys both tend to stay away from the rowdier kids and go off on their own as well, but they do need to learn those social skills earlier than we like to think b/c of bullying, etc.

So, got teacher assignment ... the last-minute hire who I know nothing about. Trying to keep an open mind, sigh.

And to make matters worse DS7 got a new teacher as well, one who sent a cursive-written postcard about being a mature and responsible second grader. She didn't even address him by name at the top! And, um, maybe she doesn't realize that the kids don't LEARN cursive till 2nd grade. So, of course, the kid who's reading a year ahead needed me to read the card to him. NOT boding well.

Alli-cat: I think the playing on their own is quite normal at times, providing they do things with peers at times. DS5 gets the same way at times. He is quite an outgoing kid...but if he doesn't like how others play he would probably rather play by himself. I worked with 4 & 5's the last couple years in schools and I have to say that's fairly common for kids that age. Anyhow, hopefully they will give it time and see that it's not really a problem. But I have to say that it is great they are communicating with you. That is always a great sign with schools ; )

EastnWest: Glad DS will have a friend in class. That stinks about all the extra stuff missing with the music and art, but I assume when he is in a full day program next year they will have that, right? I guess for now you can just get him involved in those things after school and in other places (like library music programs or other things like that).

Mom2twoboys: cursive? seriously? Hopefully that was a complete oversight and she will catch on quickly. ; )

Alli-cat: my DS5.5 also doesn't like people messing up his stuff, but he's very social. He prefers to play with the "more mature" girls in his class, as opposed to the "less mature" boys. Since your DC is a girl, she is probably the maturist in the class and doesn't have that "older" friend. On the flip side, it's very common for perfectionists to not want anyone touching their things, messing them up, and feel they are better off doing "it" by themselves (I am VERY guilty of all three, especially the latter in the "real world").

EastnWest: glad your DS has a friend! And if it's any relief to hear, my DS's class is doing the same thing - and he is bored!

Mom2twoboys: I know we are all guilty of thinkin' the worst because we've all fought to get our kids where they need to be... but rookie teachers aren't always THAT bad. Maybe the cursive post card shows she has high expectations for her class which might be a plus for your DS7!!!

And just a random update from me: DS5.5 still won't tell me what he does at school. He thinks it's funny NOT to tell me. But I can tell when he's really bored b/c he comes home with the worst attitude!!! His homework tonight was to read a 7 page book - This is my mom. She works here. This is my dad. He works here. He fought me tooth and nail at first, then was like, "duh". Sad when HE is the one saying that! We still have 3-4 more weeks of testing/meetings/etc... fun!

JJsMom- we made a deal with our DS last year when he refused to tell me about his school day. We would ask three questions about his day that he had to answer then we would drop it. In the beginning, I'd ask one super silly question just to warm him up. "Did Ms. Smith stand on her head today?" After the requisite eye roll . . . I'd then ask two more questions. Then, I'd follow through with my promise to stop. I would encourage DS to ask me three questions about my day which sometimes caused him to spill a bit more about his day too.

You also may want to try playing the "high/low" game at dinner time where everyone says their favorite and least favorite thing that happened in the day. "Tell me the high point of your school day." "What was the low point?" This can be really great for perfectionist kids so they can see that everyone has struggles daily.

I like the three questions idea, though he did tell me he'd tell me about his day tomorrow. ha. We do the high/low thing at bed time usually, but he will tell me things like "I didn't like getting up so early" and "I loved helping you do this or that" instead of anything about school. but I suppose I could make it to be about school/work.

DD3.5 has also started the "I don't feel like/want to tell you about my day". ha!

I really love reading about everyone else but I have the BEST news EVER!!!! Well at least based on the school experience we've had over the past 12 months (a watered down version of advocacy hell)...

Wolf's Independent Study teacher met with him today to set up curriculum and right off the bat she passed him up to 1st (I wasn't expecting that till the semester). He's getting all 1st work and a subject acceleration in math to 2nd. He has the go ahead to work through it as fast as he wants to also! If he finishes he can just go on to the next grade in that subject!!! Also there are enough little kids to have a weekly class and it is scheduled perfectly for our schedule! He's even getting to start Spanish and ASL. I am SO happy. Wolf got everything he needed and wanted.

I know that IS lets you work at your own pace, but after the horror of last year's dealing with our home district this is just too much for words!!!

DS7 was very much like this. I called him my little teenager at the time. What'd you do at school? "Nothing" Who'd you play with? "No one", etc. So, I started asking really detailed questions like, "So, was Jonny the silliest person in your class today?" He will finally tell me a few things, though it has taken a few years. I think he likes thinking of home and school as separate. I also find that if I throw out the best thing that happened question at bedtime, when he's relaxed, I'll sometimes get more interesting information.

Wyldkat: That all sounds fabulous! Congrats!

That's fantastic, Wyldkat!

Yay!

That is great news Wyldkat. I missed most of this story and you said your district was bad, is this a private school or a new development in the district program?

Today is DS5's first day. I'm getting a (mild) migraine (complete with aura) to celebrate. DS5 is cranky and difficult. He hates all his shorts, and he got breakfast all over his good shirt already.

It's going to be a loooooong day! I'm really hoping this is not foreshadowing the rest of the year.

Griping over. Thanks for letting me whine. Here's to a good day!

Good luck!

Great news, Wyldkat.

Good luck, Kriston. Does DS5 have the same teacher like DS8?

No, LMom, he has a former 2nd grade teacher. She's young--this is her 3rd year teaching but her first with the K-ers.

I'm hopeful that these facts mean she'll be flexible and more likely to recognize accelerated learning that looks like 2nd grade work.

Unfortunately, the first thing she said to him after hello at the meet the teacher hour was "Don't run," when he was not running (or even walking...), so I'm a bit nervous. I'm hoping she's not so worried about controlling the kids that she overdoes it. DS5 holds grudges, I'm afraid. It could make things hard on both of them!

great news wyldkat!

and ds5.5 has officially impressed enough big wigs at his school to warrant the full acceleration testing (last week, i signed the request to be tested, and it had to be approved to go further). i'm really excited for him!!! the paper i signed today said that they will use one or more of all the tests that you guys have listed in the testing forum... now i get to go study up to know what to expect!!!

JJsMom and Wyldkat -

Congrats!

Wyldcat and JJsMom - great news for you both!

Our update: I went to Back-to-School night For Parents this evening at my son's school. I met his teacher. She seems nice enough. I'm very pleased that she was a 3rd grade teacher for most of her career, so hopefully that will help when dealing with my son.

Tomorrow is "open house", where my son and I get to go in and meet the teacher, see his classroom, etc. I am a bit nervous because the classroom is a typical kindergarten classroom, and I hope that he won't be too disappointed by it. The meeting I am most looking forward to is Friday AM where I get to meet with his teacher and several other teachers/administrators and go over my son's plan........

JJsMom: That's great news! I'm excited for you.

Here's a question for everyone that I've been really struggling with: I meet DS5's teacher on Friday morning to talk about his health issues. My husband thinks that as I'm leaving, I should casually mention that DS's reading seems rather advanced based on what I know from my second-grader, but that's something we can discuss after she has a chance to assess him.

So, how have you addressed your kids' abilities with your teachers without sounding like yet another bragging parent who thinks their kid is the greatest? I'm envious of those of you with acceleration testing. That's not something that I've heard of in our county.

DS5 had a good first day...except for the fact that he didn't get off the bus in the afternoon!

The bus stopped, and I was standing there, but the driver didn't even open the door. That bugged me. One open door and I could have helped him.

I was worried when he pulled away, of course, but the driver did realize his mistake with the help of a 6th grade neighbor. DS5 got off with her at the next stop and the driver waved to me to be sure I saw where DS5 was.

They'd better get it right next time! That was a pretty nerve-wracking mistake...

Otherwise, he said he had a good day, and the bus was a much bigger deal to me than it was to him. So that's very good.

Oh no Kriston! I'm glad that the missed bus stop wasn't as big a deal for your DS. (I'd be a bit miffed at the driver too!)

Mom2twoboys - I have approached the discussions about DS's giftedness by asking advice; I described DS's abilities, and asked what did they think we should do? (Caveat - we were armed with test results and a psychologist's report, and we contacted the school last spring.) In your situation, I would probably do exactly what your DH suggested, and give examples of the types of things he is reading.

Great news Wyldcat and JJsmom!

Yikes Kriston! That scares the heck out of me with DS too! Thankfully it hasn't happened - yet!

And mom2twoboys - at meet and greet, with the teacher, when we were leaving, I did mention DS5.5's abilities. I worded it similar to this:


She was excited and thanked me for letting her know. I picked him up the first day and she said she could tell already he's smart.

Then after the first week, I sent her an email letting her know that I know the first week is all about procedures and rules, and that now the focus will be determining how far along each child in her class is. And that I wanted to make sure she knew we were available for any questions or concerns and recommendations to keep him challenged throughout the year, as he has mastered the basics several years ago (i.e., recognizing letters, writing them, etc). I didn't go into too much detail until she responded with wanting to talk to me. She called me and asked me if I was interested in having him tested for whole grade acceleration, and she explained the process, and it was then that I explained his abilities, stuff he will work on me with, stuff he won't... his learning style and his need for a very structured challenging environment, etc...

So I would definitely give the basic information, and let the teacher know that you only offer it as assistance to her rather than telling her what she needs to do with your DS - if that makes sense... more of an fyi, he's here, and we want you to let us know what we can do to help you with him.

m2gts - let us know how it goes!

not sure if I should start a new thread for this question but since it is still related to K, here it is.

backround
From Ruf's levels and reading over the years I am guessing my ds5 is MG. Also possible he is bright ND. In the big picture, either one is fine with me.

In the context of his new school. I am wondering a lot about how it will go.
bright ND: could go fine. might be some boredom but balanced with a short day/extracurr/afterschooling he'll be fine.
MG+: frustration, acting out, hiding abilities...

I am thinking out loud here but I guess what I am saying is. It could be fine, or it could be terrible, whether he is GT or not. I just don't see the K classroom environment he is in supporting any 5 year old's growth and development. Maybe I am biased from Montessori, or maybe I am just biased period, but my belief that learning should be tailored to the child is just counter to the PS set up.

We are in the middle of planning a move so this is the option we are stuck with for now.

OK. now that I have processed a bit, here is the
question.
Can the parents with ND or MG kids who went to K and did fine please tell me that I am making too much of this? I should just relax and see how it goes right?

thanks,

EW

Hi - I don't fit in the group of people you're asking, but I'm piping in anyway (sorry). I really think that the LOG of your child doesn't matter as much as (1) your child's personality and learning style, and (2) the particular teacher you get. Just my .02.

I have read (although I don't remember where) that most gifties do ok in K because it is often a warm, fun, play-based environment. It is 1st grade when the focus is acedemics, that they've known for years, is when behavior issues begin due to boredom.

I wish I could remember the source. Sorry!! Obviously, we've seen different stories here so I'm not sure how often this holds true . . .

I would guess it depends on the kindergarten. In some areas, kindergartens seem to focus more on academics, more like 1st grade. We're hoping ours ends up being fun and supportive!

Ruf mentions that in her book "Losing Our Minds: Gifted Children Left Behind." Incidentally, her book title is changing to "Five Levels of Gifted." See here: Ruf's LOG book, new title (scroll down)

Thanks for the sympathy, friends!

E&W, I agree that if K is the "learn to read" year where you are (and your child is already reading), then you may have some trouble, depending upon the personality of your child. If not, if it's more like preschool, you'll probably be fine. no academics is better than the wrong academics.

FWIW, my DYS kid did fine in a half-day K class with a teacher who "got" him and did her best to challenge him. If it had a been a full-day class or a bad teacher for him, I don't think it would have gone so well.

It wasn't until full-day 1st grade (our "learn-to-read" year) with a teacher who was uncomfortable with GT kids and refused to differentiate that our DYS kid had trouble.

I'll add, though, that if there's a good GT program in your school and you have a child who just misses the mark to be in the program, that can make for a rough time even for a ND+ child. I have a friend with a DD who has about a 120 IQ, and that seems like an accurate assessment, both to the mom and to me. The DD didn't qualify for any GT services, and she was MISERABLE in public school. Her parents finally pulled her out for one of the more rigorous private schools in our area, hoping that would better meet her needs.

As a personal note, I'm having the same worries about my DS5, whose LOG is not clear to me, if he's GT at all (or 2E, or...). So, yeah, I'm right there with you!

spg and sittinpretty -

Around here, the K looks a lot like 1st.

Maybe not as academic, but way more than a low key, play-based prechool. The teacher even mentioned it at the parent orientation night. She has been teaching so long, her kids went to K at the school and she remarked how our kids will be doing what her kids would have been doing in first back in the day.

It is the "learn to read" year. The trouble is, he is starting to read, but he is not fluent and does not have a lot of confidence. I will ask him to read a word or very short sentence and he will say "I don't know" or "I can't" and then once I get him to try, he can do it. Sometimes with mistakes and sometimes prettty accurately. I have read on this board that is typical: doesn't want to try if he can't do it perfectly (I struggled with this and still do)

So as you and the others have said personality and fit with the teacher is going to be huge. DS ranges all the way from compliant/cooperative to defiant/ornery. most of the time he is laid back and go with the flow. BUT, that is when he is comfortable and around people who "get" him. I could totally see him going into class-clown for attention mode, or worse.

Mrs Teacher seems like she is used to doing things her way. And has been doing it a long time. It is early in the school year (day 2), but my first impression is that she is not predisposed to accomodate for each kid and is not likely to since she has 25 instead of her usual 20.

This exactly describes what I am worried about. that he is in the 120-129 range; will miss the cutoffs for official GT programs; ed needs won't warrant a skip but needs still won't be met...

I will just have to work towards a different academic environment altogether once we move.

VERY glad to have the company!!!

thanks for piping in. your .02 is appreciated.

and thanks for the update on Ruf

I'm doing my best to hold off on worrying until after testing, E&W. Not that testing doesn't have it's own potential pitfalls, but I also know that most siblings are within 10 IQ points of one another. So if we have one HG+ kid in the family, chances are pretty decent that we have more than one. But second (and third, etc.) kids tend to present differently than the 1st kid. So what looks ND or maybe MG may really just be different GTness that we don't really recognize as such.

My biggest worry personally is that there's a 2E issue we haven't IDd.

Do you have ideas about what to do for your DS if the school situation he's in now is not a good fit, whether advocacy, another school, or homeschooling?

That's where I'm at: keeping my options open. I'm watching and staying positive about the school situation as it is, even as I consider other options in case it doesn't go well.

FYI, we're also seeing what looks like what I'd call "lazy reading" out of DS5--the ability seems to be mostly there, but he dosn't seem to be very accurate nor wildly interested (though he LOVES books and being read to). That's one of the reasons I worry that he's got some 2E issue.

...But then I also worry that I'm being paranoid, and he's just a normal kid. I don't want to be one of "those" moms.

You know I don't think the whole story is written down in one place anywhere so I'll just toss in a quick version here.

July 2008 I read an article about gifted kids and said "This sounds like Wolf." I went online, did some research (Yay Hoagies!), found out about early K entrance and contacted my district to find out if it was an option in our area. Mind you at that point I wasn't gung ho about placing him in early K, I JUST wanted to know if it was possible. Mid August 08 I found one person who actually knew the answer and wasn't rude. Then I was put in contact with the charter system and told he could start with one of their school (homeschool based system). Next I was told he couldn't because the school was full (lie). I was told by the district to homeschool K in 08-09 so we did and I just let him go at his own pace.

I quickly realized that a grade skip would do him a lot of good and talked with the principal of the charter schools again to see about getting him placed in 1st at 5yrs. There was much hassle, much disbelief and finally they allowed me to give him grade assessment tests at home. I think they wanted to prove to me I was seeing things that weren't there and pushing him and ruining his childhood, etc... I asked what to do if he aced them, they said come back and get the next level. By the time I asked for grade 3 math they were getting really tired of me.

I talked with one charter and both Wolf and I were treated rudely. I finally had an appt. with the teacher of the charter he would probably end up with and I spent a half an hour being lectured about how I was not allowing him to be a child. I didn't get to ask most of my questions about the program. That was the last straw.

I called the Independent Study program in the public school system of the neighboring district. I had talked to them before when we had thought about moving there. I told the head teacher all about Wolf and what he could do. She loved the idea of having him as a student. Then I told her the thing that turned everyone else off, he would be 5 in August 09. She had no idea what the problem with that was. He was my kid and I knew him better than she did. She was willing to take everything I said site unseen. She also specifically requested that he be her student and was willing to fight to get a transfer to go through if that was what it would take.

We applied for a interdistrict transfer and they were going to make us go through a bunch of red tape since we hadn't even enrolled in our home district yet, but the person in charge was the first person I had talked to who originally and I told her exactly what had happened and she pushed it through on her end. I had to wait till the day school started here to get the official confirmation that it went through though.

Hmmm I don't do short well...

LOL! You're in good company here with that.
Glad you kept at it and found something that worked for your son.

Two school meetings to report:

First one was yesterday, not really a meeting, but DS and I went to the open house at school, so he met his teacher and saw his classroom. He was more than happy to play with magnets she had (creating various tetrahedrons and other odd shapes). It was really chaotic, however, because all the parents were coming in at the same time, so we left. DS seemed to like the classroom and the teacher, so, good start so far...

Second meeting was this morning, I met with 2 teachers, the principal and asst. principal. The goal of the meeting was to go over the plan they had come up with for my son. I am so happy, so blessed, to say that the meeting went very well! The plan they came up with is a starting point, and they say it will evolve as they get to know my son. For reading, they will be grouping him with several other children who also happen to be reading in his Kindergarten class. For math, they will be starting him off in 3rd grade, and he will actually go to the 3rd grade classroom for instruction. They will also add some of the GT curriculum enrichment activities to his schedule once he's been there for a while and they figure out the best place to put it in his schedule. Again, I can't believe how willing and flexible they seem to be - it's night and day compared to our school experience last year. They'll also be keeping a close eye on his social/emotional behavior, which is fine with DH and me. So all in all, really good news on our front, and hoping that it continues to be good when DS starts school next week. (After last year, we could use a better year!)

Now if I can just get through the first day and the fact that DS will be riding on the bus.....

m2gts: All that sounds great. So glad for you that the year is starting off with such promise.

We met teachers yesterday. All went remarkably better than I could have imagined. DS5's K teacher was brought down from 3rd grade. The classroom is kinda stark, with not a lot of toys for down time; and the books are things he's already read, but I'm sure that once he actually reads to her, she'll be able to pull from her stash of books that she had for her older students. And a staffer friend inside the school thinks highly of her. DS5 was extremely timid in the classroom and really everywhere except the library where I showed him where to find his favorite books and in DS7's second grade classroom (I'm fairly certain he wishes he were in 2nd grade and not K!) I did manage to hold my tongue when she showed him the letter box where they'll be learning their letter sounds. I figure she'll know soon enough that he's well beyond that!

To top all that off, DS7's teacher came from a highly gifted center in another state. Two of his best friends from last year are still in his class, and the bully he's afraid of is not. ... BIG sigh of relief

This sounds wonderful! Enjoy!

3 Cheers!!! In a way, I think having a teacher who is used to 3rd graders could work out wonderfully. At the very least, she is unlikely to talk 'quite so far' down to the Ks.

mom2twoboys: Looks like your kids' school year is getting off to a good start as well - that's great! Continued best of luck!

See here is where I am confused. I completely get this....but then I wonder if it is a grade where they learn their letters and phonics then that would clearly be bad as well. It is all quite confusing. In our district, the do some basic level B reading I think by the end of the school year. I don't know if that is right, but some site words at least. I think first is when they really learn to read more and have spelling and such. My DS5 is skipping K and going to first. This was supposed to be K's first year of full day so I didn't see much of a point in having him there all day in K. If it was only a half day I may have considered it. But he is a PG kid that has been tested and is doing most things at least a 3rd/4th grade level. Some obviously less but some (such as reading) probably above a 4th grade level. We don't start school for another week and a half and while I feel like we made a better choice (not necessarily a good choice) I realize that neither setting would be ideal. I worry that he may get frustrated if he doesn't have as much playtime. He does tend to be a kid that acts out when bored...but does great if he is challenged or interested in anything. I guess I realize in school DS is going to start to realize how different he is...he hasn't just yet. And while I know he will still clearly see it in a first grade class I am hopeful it won't be quite as obvious as in a kindergarten. Maybe I am delusional, who knows? : )

m2,

Sound like your school is alot like ours! Hopefully the flexibility will allow for a happy year!

PS. The favorite part of my DS' day last year was riding the bus!

Okay all...it's time for me to dive back into this thread. DD4 became DD5 yesterday (who said she could grow up?!?) and will be starting first grade on Monday.

She's a little apprehensive, in spite of the fact that she used to go to school with me every day to collect her brothers. She even spent a day there last spring.

I had a talk with my mom about DD5's uncertainty, and she was very reassuring. Moms can be so wonderful in that regard; wonder if I'll ever turn out that way?

Anyway, reports to follow next week.

Val

P.S. LOL: we could just as easily rename this thread "The Ultimate Kindergarten Thread!"

Don't second-guess yourself! You know what you're doing!

I think a lot of this depends on how advanced the child is and what his/her personality is like.

Some kids can handle some "what starts with the letter A?" in circle time, especially if the class is more play-based and is only half a day so the child can go home and get his/her intellectual stimulation there. My HG+ child was in this camp. K with differentiation was fine for him, even though he was in an age level class--no grade skip. It wasn't perfect, but he was not unhappy there.

But some kids would lose their minds in a class like that. Just go stark-raving mad.

If you think your child is in the latter group, then I think you have to do more. You know your child! Trust that.

I like half-day K for GT kids. The fact is that you just can't fit as much boredom into a half day. But since this isn't an option for you, I think you're right that there's little to be gained from K for your child. The half-day is to me the big draw.

Note, too, that E&W and I are not talking about PG kids, as you are. We're not sure about LOGs or if our kids are just bright ND kids. That makes a difference.

IMHO, with a child clearly performing 4-5 grades above age level and with the personality you're describing, shellymos, you probably HAVE to do something, and probably something big to find a workable fit.

In other words, based on what you're saying here, I don't think my comments apply in your situation, and I definitely don't think they should make you doubt the solution you have worked out. In fact, I'm betting there may be another grade skip or two in your child's future, FWIW...

Val: Happy birthday to DD! And good luck with the coming school year.

So as I tuck my son into bed tonight, he says, "I can't wait till Labor Day." "Why?", I ask. "Because then I have a few days of rest and relaxation."

Hmmmm.... not quite the attitude I was hoping for him to have before the first day of school! Already looking for the next day off??!? Oh, it's going to be a LONG year!

1st, I agree with everything Kriston said

2nd, I also agree that it is confusing about what is meant by the "learn to read year". shellymos, were you saying that in your district Kinder = letters and phonics and sight words (prereading), 1st = more complex reading (sentences) and spelling?

I am not sure where our school is on this continuum. I think it may be as you described. I think the major distinction I was trying to make earlier is that in some schools (and in years past) Kinder is just for play based activities, getting a long in a group etc., learning to be away from parents etc. In which case it could be easier to accomodate the whole range of LOGs because the focus of the class would not be academic activities. (as opposed to shoe tying, cooking, dress-up, sing-alongs, and whatever else they do in play based programs)

But when the emphasis is to teach prereading and/or reading there is going to be a huge range of kids with regards to prior experience and ability. As we can imagine, some may not know their letters at all, others may be reading years ahead, and everything in between. And that is when the problems might come up for some kids...


So, I agree with you too. Either K or 1st could be bad.

In our case, I am waiting to see how high my son's tolerance is for "A is for apple". I also need to find out if they will get put in groups for reading (prereading) given the fact that they have more kids in the class than usual. I don't know if Mrs. Teacher has the capacity.


In a way I wish they didn't even bother to teach reading! see next post...

Happy news! I just found out that DS5's favorite person from preschool is in his kindergarten class. He was so happy he screamed! (He has a crush on this little curly-haired girl. Kind of like Charlie Brown and his little red-headed girl...)

Based on the gifted coordinator's advice, the principal said that I could suggest a kid DS knows well to be in the same class with him to make him feel more comfortable. The particular friend we discussed has older gifted siblings, and the principal did place him in DS's class too. Yay! I put the little curly-haired girl on the request form as an afterthought, without discussing it with anyone, and not really expecting her to be placed in the same class too. (There are several kindy classes.) Sometimes all you have to do is ask! yippee!

Still 2 weeks away from start of school here...

short replies. more later
1- true. when will you test? we will probably wait until closer to 6 yrs, late winter early spring.
2- we are on the wait list for charter public school that is very near current school. philosophy incorporates NVC (nonviolent communication) and borrows from montessori and waldorf they do not teach reading in K (but won't squelch a kid who is reading already). that is loooking very appealing right now. so much to learn about science,nature,culture etc. why emphasize reading, which I'd rather him do at his own pace anyway? more natural.
we are trying to move in the next few months. have alreay researched the situation where we are going. more on that later
3&4- me too! ha!

congrats! 2 weeks away, wow. seems like a long time to wait. hope you and your ds are enjoying your summer!

Oops. One week away! Silly me. Still kind of far away. It's MN dontcha know. We can't possibly have school start before the state fair ends!

Yay! That's really cool. We don't know any kids in DS's class yet...or in the school. Actually we met a neighbor who is 2 years older than DS and will be in the grade above him and they will be at the same bus stop together. Hopefully that will go well. They played together the other day and seemed to get along.

I'm debating about requesting that he be tested by the school in the fall instead of waiting until the spring. (He'll take the WISC when he turns 6 in the late spring with a private tester.)

The school only tests twice per year, giving kids the the WJ achievement and the Cogat. Part of me thinks that if the school fit is bad, it might actually hurt his scores, and I'd kind of like to see where he is with a more or less blank slate. Also, if he does have some sort of LD, I'd like to know about it sooner rather than later.

The danger is that I'll come off as pushy before the teacher has a chance to get to know him. DS8 was IDd as GT in the spring by his K teacher without my requesting testing, and that was a good situation.

I figured from a previous post that you were thinking of moving/planning to move. That sure throws a wrench in the works, I'll bet!

Oh, and yay for the little curly-haired girl! (I just typo'd "the little curly-hared girl, which would be a very different thing! LOL!)

DS5 has a friend from the neighborhood in his class and other kids he's fast attaching to. No surprise from my little social butterfly, but nice anyway.

Kriston -

yup . moving throws a big wrench.

your DS5 is sounding more and more like mine. My DS5 is also very social!

Yes, we need to keep in touch, I think.

I see I have some catching up to do! Apparently I am officially no longer gifted, not even smart... when inactivating the primary email address associated with your internet service, you should ALWAYS change the settings to reflect the new primary address - or don't inactivate the primary address, even if you don't use it for email anymore. UGH.

Anywho, maybe I can catch up soon!

DS5.5 missed "centers" today bc he was with the GT teacher "testing on 1st grade stuff". He said she said he was really smart (really??? ha). And he didn't seem upset about the testing - said it was easy. Round 1: seems to be on the pro-whole grade acceleration side.

m2gts & mom2twoboys - seems like the "luck" of the draw just might be on all our sides this year!

JJsMom - you are right, we really got lucky this year. It's like night and day from last year for us.

I am so happy to say, that three days into school, my son LOVES kindergarten! Never in a million years would I have thought I would be saying this. This morning at breakfast he told me that "Kindergarten is cool!" What a difference a teacher makes. His teacher has been wonderful, and she is doing little things to differentiate for him (for example, when the other children were coloring "kindergarten" pictures, she gave him a "math" coloring worksheet where he had to color 1/4 of the square red, 1/2 of the circle blue, figure out what fraction of the picture was left uncolored, etc.) Still extremely easy for him but at least they realize and are giving him something a bit more advanced (for kindergarten, anyway). He has been doing the 3rd grade math pretest all week, and he tells me he loves math in school! So far no behavior issues like last year - still keeping the fingers crossed on that one. :-) I am soooooo happy at this point. I went to visit him at lunch today and it is soooo nice to be able to go into school without the big knot in my stomach, wondering what he did wrong today.....

Oh! That makes me smile- nice to have some good news!
Congrats!

Yay!

DS5 is loving school, too, despite one toileting accident caused by long lines at the bathroom. (Sewer problems at the school led to closed bathrooms. Not good for a 5yo not used to the building or the people...)

But he likes it. Truth be told, I figured he would. It's 1st grade that worries me. That's when his big brother hit the wall.

JJsMom, m2gts - your children's K teachers sound awesome. Thumbs up to the great start

Kriston, that's great that DS5 loves K. How's hs going?

I am losing my patience with the kids school. DS5 and DS7 are both homeschooled but attend a private school for two afternoons each week. The director hasn't given me the afternoon schedule (theater, art, gym, dance, etc.) yet, so I don't know which days would work the best for us. The school starts a week from today, they should know all that by now.

Since I don't know which afternoons they will be at school I haven't scheduled their other lessons (piano, swimming, etc) yet. I am a planner and I am having really hard time not having any schedule at this point.

We're also having a great K year so far for DS5! He absolutely adores his teacher and is having a great time. I'm still not completely settled because it wasn't until closer to Christmas that DS7 fell apart when he was in K. But, I'm trying to remind myself that DS5 is a different kid, in a different school with an amazingly different teacher, so things will probably be ok.

The up side of having DS5 in school is that homeschooling DS7 is much, much easier- even with DD3 running around. It feels like a vacation where I get more done and feel less frazzled, lol.

Not knowing your schedule is hard. Any idea what the holdup is?

We've had some adjustment problems with homeschooling, LMom. Thanks for asking!

DS8 doesn't handle transitions terribly well, and it isn't helping that I'm working him a bit harder this year. He's used to having his mornings pretty free during the school year (and his whole days free during the summer!), but that's not going to happen this year because two days a week he'll (also!) be in a private "school for homeschoolers." As that is mostly social and "edu-tainment," rather than work on his core courses, AND as he is interested in doing lots of extracurricular stuff this year (computer programming, animation, Arabic and piano), we just need more time for work.

I think we haven't found our balance yet, so there has been more whining and foot-dragging from DS8 than I was hoping for. But I'm adjusting and so is he. I hope next week will be better. I think once the school starts up after Labor Day, that will help, too.

One foot in front of the other, right?

I'm glad Hsing is easier on you, mamaandmore. That's a good thing!

So how do I convince DS that "I'd miss my teacher" is NOT a good reason to say he doesn't want to be whole grade accelerated? I got a note today from his teacher that his testing is going really well, and while she, herself, doesn't know the results, the psychologist said that if he finishes the testing as well as he's doing now, he'll be recommended to move to 1st. His teacher stated to go ahead and begin to introduce the idea of him moving into 1st. Well I did, and he said he'd say no b/c he'd miss his teacher. He didn't care that he'd be leaving his "friends" or anything else. He thought it was cool that he'd be in a class that didn't do the same things he's known forever all the time. But he'd miss his teacher.

**bangs head on wall**

I got the kids' school schedule and they have already chosen what they prefer (theater and music). Now I can put it all on the paper and start scheduling the rest

Kriston, how interesting that we will be in similar situation. I must say that I really liked this arrangement last year. Fingers crossed it works for both of us.

I feel your pain about the mornings. We let the kids read at night as long as they want in summer. They love it, we love it, but it's really not compatible with a.m. homeschooling. I am very torn about it right now.

Take your time adjusting. I am sure I will have to. Forget the kids. Even I will have hard time moving from the summer schedule or more the lack of it to a homeschooling schedule. I am giving myself at least a month to figure it all out again.

JJsMom,

How about he starts going to the 1st for part of his day? That way he gets to know the other children and teacher and has some time to adjust.

It may be a good idea to post this question in a separate thread. That way those who went through it may chime in with a btdt advice.

We had a welcome back party at school tonight. DS5 saw his teacher and went and gave her a big hug! Yay, he really is happy with school so far. Later, she found me alone and told me that he's a perfectionist and is doing things "he shouldn't be doing yet." Plus, she said he's really empathetic and he's not a show-off about what he knows, which she really likes. And she told DH separately that he drew an amazingly detailed fish with lots of colors, etc. I told her that I know he's doing more at this stage than his brother did and am really curious to see where she assesses him at. She thought that totally reasonable. First round of assessments will be done in August.

Plus, ran into another parent who's son had her as a teacher last year who told me lots of great things about her ... and this woman's son is also a couple of years ahead in reading.

It's really looking good!

assessments in August? next year? :P just playin'!

And LMom- that was just more of me thinkin' out loud than actually wanting an "answer" to the question. i've actually already asked his teacher to see if he can be introduced to first grade first.

After looking at the Phonics and Math Wolf is supposed to do I talked with his Independent Studies teacher and she says it's fine to skip as much as we want and to pick and choose. Better yet she said that Wolf can dictate if he gets tired from writing and still wants to do workbook stuff. Hooray! He's got a 5 year old's writing stamina and is doing 1st and 2nd work so that will make a HUGE difference.

I'm still waiting for something to go wrong... After last year I'm probably more paranoid than I should be.

Wyldkat, who can blame you? Even though we haven't had a bad year yet, necessarily (I gave up the grade skip fight last year since DS wasn't in elementary yet), I still am waiting for Ashton to come out saying we've been Punk'd!

And that's an interesting way of putting the writing - 5 year old stamina for writing vs. the advanced work. Can I "steal" that? It's the perfect description!

oops! Shouldn't have been typing so late! September, I mean, Sept!

I wish school would start already to get the anxiety over. DS5 starts first on the 9th. It is coming soon but still feels like it has been dragging. I am feeling good about things so far....but one thing not so good. I emailed the teacher to say hello and to introduce us seeing as how this is a little different situation as DS5 is skipping K. I didn't ask her to respond back but I would have responded if I were a teacher and she didn't. Having worked in schools for years I remind myself that not all teachers check their work email at home, etc. So I am hoping she just hasn't seen it yet. Oh well, I know this isn't really negative thing, but when talking with the principal I specifically requested a teacher that is good with communication, one that will let us know of any concerns and respond to us as well. I am planning to go over on the 8th to visit the room and meet teacher briefly. Hopefully she will be in the classroom. I asked her about when would be a good time in my email to her....

Me too!

Shellymos - I'm sorry your haven't heard from your teacher yet. That's irritating and certainly adds to the mounting stress of the unknown.

DH and I met with the teacher and the principal to discuss DS's "differences." We got a little bit of "Don't worry, we've had kids with scores like your DS's before." DH explained how the new tests compare with the old, then we got "Oh, then we've had one kid sort of like your DS who is now a college grad." It took us awhile to believe it, so I don't blame the folks at school for not getting it yet. Anyway, the teacher wants to meet DS before deciding what to do, which is fine, I guess. Also encouraging is that the focus does not appear to be mainly academic, but rather on learning to "do school." I think it will be OK.

DS and I went to the open house, and teacher had left mints on a note for each kid saying something like "Thanks for visting the school. It really 'mint' a lot to us." I thought "Yay, hooray!" A teacher who likes puns and word-play is going to be great for DS. (In fact, on the way out I said to DS, "That classroom looks really neat! He said, "I thought it was kind of messy." I started to explain what I meant, and he said "I know, mom, it was a joke, and if you say it seemed cool, I'll tell you it was warm.") The classroom is what one parent described as "every kindergartner's dream" -- raised castle stage area with pillows, piano, big lego table, lots of bins full of cool stuff.

And, on a happy side note, the nurse just told me that there is another kid in DS's room with peanut allergies. Yay! He's not the only one!

I might have to take out some of these details later, but will share for now.

shellymos-that has to be frustrating!

I just got the "DS said no to moving to first" email. Great. Just great. Granted, it doesn't mean he won't be accelerated, but still. I guess this is the part where Ashton starts to come out to tell us we were definitely punk'd.

sigh

on a side, I did respond requesting that he be placed in a 1st grade class for a few hours or days first before they make the decision. I think if he was tested BEFORE he started K and started in 1st, he wouldn't be so against it (with the only reason being he'll miss his teacher).

shellymos-hang in there and enjoy the last bits
of summer vacation.

JJsmom - hope your ds gets excited when he meets the new teacher.

As for us, DH and I like less and less of what we see in DS5's class. no horror stories (yet), just an uninspiring environment. and the 'mind control' aspect. Mrs. teacher rings a little bell when they switch centers. too pavlovian for our tastes.

DS seems a little stressed out too. hopefully the long weekend will help. and an afterschool sports class will start in a few weeks.

we are also going to keep doing afterschooling/weekend science projects and play dates to provide balance to the school day.

Also - I wish we had a plan C. Plan B was the charter school but we are stil on the wait list with no change in position.

LOL, that's great. DS loves those wordplays as well. That teacher sounds like a keeper. She had me at "mint"

Shellymos: Hope you hear from the teacher this week. I know the teachers in our school started work the week before school, so hopefully that's the holdup.

Have a ball! I've snagged a couple from here already (HLD = Hyper learning disability! LOL). The thing is it is so hard for ME to remember that he is only 5. I get just as frustrated as he does that he can't keep up physically with the work he can keep up with mentally. Yay Asynchronous development!

i've been reading this thread a while and as our first day of K for our HG DD5 is Tuesday, i am wondering about something.

is it unfair to our child to build up her excitement and enthusiasm when all involved are worried that it will not work out (including DD).. do you think it will create elevated sense of disappointment and loss if it ends up being a miss instead of a hit? We so want the experience to be positive.. but is building up the excitement (for the bus , the new clothes, the new friends, etc.) mean when it seems so bound to not work out?? or can the positive attitude MAKE it more apt to work? i am totally confused about this.
irene

I've been wondering the same thing. I think we did the same things you did (or at least it looks the same from what you listed your post): we emphasized nonacademic things to be excited about, and did not ever say "you're going to learn so much!" I'm an eternal optimist, and I believe that if you are positive about things when you talk about them, your child will view them as positive or at least will until something happens to make it not so. Maybe focus more on the things you remembered liking and make it about you: instead of saying, "You're going to love the bus," say, "I always loved bus rides!" or "That's so cool that your room has _____; I didn't have that in my kindy" or even, "I think that you will like...." Then, if your child doesn't end up liking something, they can't really come back and "you were wrong."

Of course, I'm sure there will be many hard days the first few weeks. But I think if we don't focus on positives, the outcome will be worse.

This stuff has been an issue for us also.
Here is something I say to my kids.
It's important to work hard, do your best, challenge yourself so you feel good about it. But then the school has not always provided the challenge. I have done somethings to provide stimulation - challenging classes during the summer, stimulating books and projects at home. I learned something from a friend that I tell my children to help them deal with the situation.
We need to remember that other children need a chance to learn and some kids need more time to learn. Try to be patient and understanding. We must work to give them enough stimulation and challenge that they can be patient. It's a balancing Act.

I feel like I made too big of a deal prior to her starting. I wanted to be aware of the rules and changes etc. but she adapted fine. I think I gave her anxiety. Next child, I will not start talking about it until 2 weeks before. Of course, she will know but I am not going to make a big deal about it.

So far my DD is exceeding my wildest hopes of her adjusting. She has been wonderful, I am thrilled so far.

I'm glad your DD is adjusting so well! It is a fine line we walk in deciding how much to prepare our kiddos. I'm hoping my anxiety isn't rubbing off too much on DS.

I wanted to wish luck to all of the kids starting school in the next few days. I hope everybody has an understanding and flexible teacher. I remember how nervous I was when DS7 started K two years ago. It was quite an adjustment for all of us.

We are about to start homeschooling tomorrow. DS5 and DS7 part time school (6.5 hours/week) on Wednesday.

DD5 started first last Tuesday; so far, so good. She loves her teacher and seems to be adjusting quite well. She also started doing basic division problems spontaneously in her head over the weekend. Looks like we have another mathy one (DS9, who's starting 6th tomorrow, is also mathy).

Val

Val, sounds like a good start - that's great!

LMom, ditto what you said, best of luck to all who are starting school this week!

DS5 had a mini-conference with his teacher today, before he starts kindy tomorrow. I am so happy with this teacher! She brought in some books for him to read to her and asked him questions about a chapter he read. I really like her. I think things will work out. And DS can't wait to check out her lego table tomorrow - she had many pieces he does not have.

Good luck to everyone else who starts this week too!

That's great! Appropriate reading material and Legos! Sounds like he's off to a good start.

Val

SPG -

I hope it went well.

Our update:

DS5 does not like Kindy. and I don't blame him... sigh.

He is beginning to resent homework [because it easy? because it is pointless? Practice zipping and unzipping your back pack. Practice counting to 30 or higher...] and he has told me how he doesn't like the rules and that they don't make sense. (during line up keep your mouth closed and arns at your side. there was a off-balanced rhyme that went with these instructions)

He also says it is not fun (except for the legos). From my and DH's point of view, we are dissapointed because he is not learning anything new either.

I had planned on not advocating because we are moving in a few months but I think we need to do something before he starts acting out or worse. Not sure what to ask for though...

"Can you provide more interesting stimulating work that is hands on and messy and give each child (all 25!) individaul attention and let them ask as many questions as they want and spend more time outside exploring nature and animals and less time inside doing mind-numbing worksheets?"

oh yeah. that would go over really well.

At least he likes his afterschool program.

SPG, that sounds really promising

EastnWest, I'm sorry to hear that things are not going well. Is his K half day or full day? Homework may be a good place to start with. Would it be possible to ask if you could substitute his homework?

Hi EastnWest - I'm so sorry your DS doesn't like kindergarten.

I would say that it cannot hurt and can only help to let your teacher know that your DS has told you that the only thing he likes is Legos. If you didn't give the teacher a heads-up on your DS's abilities, she probably hasn't had time to notice with 25 kids.

Maybe start with your explanation that since you are moving in a few months, you didn't think you needed to say anything about DS's abilities, but he's been coming home very unhappy, and I think it's because he needs some more challenge. Here is what he could do before he started kindergarten (examples of advanced reading/math). Is it possible he be excused from some of the more basic instruction and given something else to do (higher math/chapter books)?

Just some thoughts. I hope things get better for your DS.

We dropped off our DS5 this morning for his first day, and he happily went off to play on the playground before the school bell rang. It was weird; I didn't feel nervous at all about dropping him off. I guess I wasted all my nervous energy ahead of time worrying about this day!

Hi EastnWest: So sorry to hear about DS5. Agree with others about substituting different homework. Do you have to turn yours in? Our K homework is optional. I quickly scrapped the math portions, in particular, for my mathy DS7 in K, getting him a workbook at his level. Worked beautifully. I'm already planning for the same with DS5.

In fact, I kept him home for the day yesterday b/c he was a little sick and home schooled him for the day. I know without a doubt that what he did here was much harder than anything he's done at school so far: Cut out a picture, glue it to paper and write something about it. (His work: "Logerheads do not wok on land. Thy do swim."). Of course, when I challenged him about the fact that they lay eggs on land, I was told: They don't walk, they push up the sand with their flippers! Math: First-grade math workbook. Reading: Whatever he wanted.

St. Pauli girl has some good suggestions. Sounds like you need to chat with the teacher in a non-confrontational way, like, I hope he's not causing trouble, but he's coming home unhappy every day. I wasn't going to say anything b/c we're moving, but ...

St. Pauli girl: So glad to hear your good news. I surreptitiously donated a "found" box of Legos to DS5's teacher for this school year b/c his room was lacking good toys! No special pieces in the box I donated, but at least there's SOMETHING Lego for DS to build with ;-). Amazing how even when they're learning full speed ahead, the toys really do matter!

SPG - sounds like a good start - that's great!

EastnWest - I'm so sorry to hear that your son doesn't like school. SPG has good advice. Even though you are moving shortly, you don't want things to develop into behavior problems. My son is probably different than yours, but when he started complaining that he didn't like the rules in pre-K, that's when the behavior problems started. It wasn't so much the rules, it was that he wasn't being challenged. Keep us posted if you do talk to the teacher.

hey all
wanted to chime in my support for everyone and report that my DD loved her first day of kindergarden. In her normal style, she did do some critiquing but it was mild and the positives were huge- buying own lunch, having older kids say hello to her in teh hall, the bus, etc..

we are wondering when the honeymoon will be over and if its a good place for her long term. Not sure if i've ever described her this way on the board, but she seems most advanced socially and experientially (not sure if thats the right word). She loves to experience things that older kids would, but in a totally non-academic way. She is not interested at all in academics at this point, only reads a little, and will only do a few math problems before she is bored stiff. But she loathes doing the same songs, holidays, seasons, etc..that has basically been the preschool curriculum since she was 2. And i know she's in for lots of the same in kindergarden...

So if she is unhappy, i think acceleration would be a very tough sell. So keeping fingers crossed!!!

irene

Irene - that's great news that your DD loved her first day! It's hard to tell with my DS. His reports included that 2 kids cried today, they had 3 recesses, and 2 snacks in addition to lunch. I asked if there was time for anything else... He has not been much for sharing info in the past, so I'm feeling like we got a lot of info! He has a day off already tomorrow (half the class started today, and the other half goes tomorrow, with the whole class going on Friday).

Hello everyone. I have not posted for awhile. It is so encouraging to hear about the different K experiences.

DD4 is starting K tomorrow. She had her assessment over the summer. Everything seemed to be going well. We met the teacher and she seemed nice. She mentioned that she needed to touch base with the GT teacher to get information on DD.

When we met her again her whole demeanor had changed. She told me that she was expecting her social and emotional skills to be less mature because of her age, which I do not believe that they are. DD has always been grouped with older children and does fine. She corrected DD several times in my presence and talked to me about how social and emotional development are so important. She also told me that she wanted DD to stay in her class all the time instead of going in the pull out program for the first month.

This is very different that what we were expecting. I am confused because she was so nice the first time we met and so different this time. It is too late for me to get in touch with anyone tonight, but I do not feel comfortable sending DD and her first day is tomorrow.

Also DD4 is pretty far beyond the K curriculum now and I am very concerned about her staying engaged. She did not answer the teachers questions in accordance to her ability during the teacher assessment and I could tell DD was a little confused by the change in this teacher compared to last time we met her.

My DH and I are unsure what to do now after going through early entrance and everything we did to try and find a good fit. I am feeling pretty discouraged.

skyward - I am sorry to hear about the teacher. Maybe it could just be first-day stress on the part of the teacher? Can you talk to the GT teacher, if she has info about your DD? Is the GT teacher in charge of the pullouts? Maybe she will have information about why the teacher seems to have changed, or advice on how to get things back on track. It sounds like she's been talking to someone.

Skyward ... I have no advice but I just wanted to send some support your way. That must be very discouraging and disconcerting - especially on the eve of starting kindergarten.

Is your dd still excited to go?

Day one of first grade went well for DS5. He said it was "GREAT" and went into much more detail then I expected about playing tunnel tag in gym, his detailed description of lunch and some of the playground equipment...and a "strange experience" he had today when he didn't know where his class was. He said that he was throwing away his lunch and he turned around and they were all gone. He said he wasn't sure where his class was so he wandered around a bit and then asked someone where D-3 was (thank goodness for his great memorization of numbers and info) and they pointed him in the right direction. And the teacher sent me an email. Apparently they were doing construction and just got computers the night before school started. So all is well and things seem good after day one. I have decided to never ask DS if he learned anything for a little while until they start accelerating things in the class. I think he should see that school is about fun and socialization and that way he won't be disappointed. Plus he learned a cool game in gym today. Hopefully they can accelerate him eventually and he may learn some academic things as well.

skyward -
good luck with your situation. I wonder if you could talk with the principal or if there is a GT coordinator. It doesn't seem like the teacher shouldn't be able to decide whether or not your dd can be pulled out or not. I am hoping that the teacher was just having a bad day, but it does sound like a big change. Maybe that is pressure from another source? Just speculating of course which probably isn't good to do. Is DD excited and wanting to start school? If so you may want her to start and see how it goes and then keep close contact with the teacher and other school personnel. Good luck in your decisions.

skyward,

Have you ever spoken to the gt teacher? Could that be her who is against having 4 year old in K? It makes me wonder if she said something that changed the K teacher's mind. How disappointing.

shellymos,
Nice start. Kudos to your son for knowing what to do when he got lost.

Shellymos- thats great news, I know you had some concerns given the skip. Also i like your approach about not asking what was learned at school. our thought process is the same, we are comfortable with DS just adjusting to the new environment and meeting new friends, for now...

DS4 started K last week and so far he really likes it though he did make a comment today that they are doing, "baby work". No worries he likes doing stuff at home and I plan to talk to the teacher once things settle down.

Skyward- Sorry to hear about that situation, I agree with the group that the principal or GT coordinator are your best bets. good luck

DD4 was very upset she said the teacher hurt her feelings when she was correcting her. She did not understand why because she had such a positive experience the first time with the teacher. The first time we met I do not think the teacher knew DD was four or that she was Gt. DD wants to try it for this week and then decide with the family if it is going to work. I will get a hold of the Gt coordinator and see what is going on.

No advice, but you have my support. I hope it was just a bad day for the teacher and that everything is really okay.

If that's not what's up, then do what you need to do and trust your gut.

{{{{Hugs}}}}

shellymos - GREAT news!

skyward, i hope you get the answers you're looking for!

So, apparently DS5 has been crying uncontrollably at school in the mornings after he gets into his class. He leaves me happy and comes home happy- I felt like a complete schmuck when I got a not from his teacher today telling about this. He refuses to ever talk about his feelings, so I tried cuddled him a lot and tried to get him to open up, but eventually it just felt like prying since he was so close lipped.

I have no idea if he's sad because his work is boring (they're identifying letters and practiced identifying and writing 3 yesterday), if he's sad that DS7 is still homeschooling and we aren't here just pining away for him- we're out doing just what we've always done, or if he just honestly misses me and needs some time to adjust since he's never been away from home on a regular basis. So, overlooking the world's longest run-on sentence, any ideas on how to help him?

I don't want to over-react to the situation, it does seem fairly minor since he calms down after about 10 minutes, but my first thought is to just bring him home. Unfortunately, Mr. Stiff Upper Lip won't tell me how he feels about any of it- coming home, staying at school, being carried off by wild monkeys- *nothing*.

day 2 of first and although DS5 behavior was not great in the morning, he said that he asked the teacher for triple digit addition and she gave him problems. She said that later she told them that he had gotten them all correct. I thought that was great that she took time to write out problems for him. I think part of his behaviors today are in part due to him having never really been in school and also I think he is interested in experimenting with their 6 color national security behavior system that they have in class.

mamaandmore: so sorry to hear that DS5 is sad. The good news is that the teacher alerted you. And don't feel bad about him not telling you. Some kids just see their school and home worlds as completely separate and don't talk about one at the other. Hopefully, he'll get through it soon!

In the meantime, maybe you could have him put on a puppet show with animals who go to school? Maybe that would help you figure out what's going on?

shellymos: So glad to hear that the teacher wrote out problems for DS5!

I just wanted to say hi and that my DS started Kindergarten almost a month ago. He is at a public "Montessori" and so far it seems to be going ok. If you read my post in the Parenting and Advocacy section you'll see my issue so far.

I'm going to go back tomorrow morning and read this whole thread but just wanted to say hi.

*waves*

DS FINALLY is like "yeah, that'd be cool" when asked about going into first now! yee haw. Now I just hope he actually gets the opportunity. I'm on pins and needles waiting for this testing process to "end".

I'm not sure if this was covered or not. Last year as we were going through first grade (our DS was 5 1/2 at that time--so the same age range) we found it very frustrating to get information from him on what went on during the day. The school didn't send us a whole lot of information and every time we asked him about it, it was "I don't know..." Seeing these posts reminds me of those days...

Someone gave me a tip about midway through the year: ask at bedtime. I found that if, after book, and after tuck-in, after all of that, when we turned off the lights if I asked him about his day, he'd tell me quite a bit more about it. It was very interesting, as this almost always works. DS is a bit more talkative about his day now (he actually enjoys telling us the highs and lows of the day) but we still talk about our days right at bedtime. I'll tell him a little bit about my day and then he'll tell me all about his.

Hope that helps.

JB

It always makes me feel better reading here (I read more than I post). DS gets so bored and then gets a little nutty in class and in a lot of trouble

How did all of you get the schools to let them skip K?

I'm sorry that it's not going well When you move will he go to a different school?

I get most of my information at bathtime. I don't know why but that's when my DS is most willing to talk. Other times it's like pulling teeth!

For us it was a pretty long process. It started shortly after I went to K orientation for parents the spring before DS was scheduled to start. Between that and his K screening scores, DW and I decided to talk to the school. We talked with admins in special services, the K principal and the elementary (1 - 5) principal. The admin was actually very helpful, and admitted that she had a bias against early admissions into first. The elementary teacher was strongly anti-early admissions. The K principal was helpful (she had GT kids) but was encouraging us to keep DS on track to start K in the fall.

We decided to have DS privately tested. Very, very expensive route to go. In our district the regulation is that you can request early admissions to first if your child has a "mental age" of at least 7 years old (which DS did). IIRC, that was not the IQ test but the achievement test.

We then went back to the admin, she read the results and said she'd support our petition, and then we had to go to the school board to get approval. Because the admin supported us, the board was a rubber stamp.

That's how we did it. The actual decision to push forward was a hard one and I'd probably choose differently knowing what we know know. But that was our process. Your mileage may vary...

JB

Yes, we do quite a bit of talking about dd's fears just before bedtime. It's a great time to talk about what's up.

So I guess I'm caught up now.

I'm getting more and more anxious about this year as time goes on. DSs behavior is getting worse and he tells me that he doesn't learn anything. I don't think it'll be long until he starts asking me to teach him at home like he asked almost everyday last year.

Saturday was family day at school where we went to the K classrooms and they had educational activities for the kids. Last year DS was the kid that was always blurting things out and getting into trouble for it and I noticed at Family Day he'd sit in the way back and not participate. I think that it's all so boring to him he's just checked out.

They won't consider moving him up for reading until after Christmas (even though they said that they would) because he's "fidigity". He got in trouble the other day for not doing his worksheet correctly. He said that he had read the instructions to himself and did it and then when he was done just wanted to do something else so he was making up his own instructions to have something to do.

I'm still trying to stay optimistic but it gets harder and harder each day.

All of that being said can you guys recommend some workbooks that I can do with him at home? Up until now I have taught him at home but I've held back because I didn't want him to be bored. I've now realized that no matter what I teach him he'll always be bored so why not give his brain some stimulation.

I don't know if I should go over the teacher's head and talk to the principal about my concerns or give the teacher another few weeks and see what happens.

Jamie B, we tried before K, but hit too many roadblocks and couldn't afford the private testing. We were just extremely lucky to get an awesome K teacher who saw DS5.5's strengths. She is the one that suggested whole grade acceleration, which apparently cannot happen prior to the start of K in our district (unless we go through the process JBDad did).

I don't remember if I updated but I responded elsewhere so you might have seen parts of this post in the not advocating Kindergarten post.

It was difficult to ask to accommodate for dd's advanced reading ability because she was selectively mute. Because of the selective mutism, we didn't rush to accommodate for that because if she couldn't speak in school, there would be no use in pushing her forward academically. Even though she was a self-taught reader, and even though she was tested through different kinds of testing that showed her to be 2-3 years above her age level, pushing for her to go to K last year might have been a really bad idea.

We focused instead on the mutism and the anxiety at school. She actually has an IEP for that. I worked on emotion coaching her at home using social stories.

But, we prepared her so well for this year, that she's made a huge breakthrough and spoke on the first day of classes and actually made some friends.

She did so well that when it came time to do initial reading assessments for her last week in kindergarten, she tested at a second grade reading level. She will be placed in a higher reading group and given challenging books to read for her take home books (if you are familiar with the DRA reading levels, she will be given books at a level 20 to start with).

The wait and see approach has turned out better than I'd hoped it would.

She has a really warm teacher who seems to really encourage dd and since she is only in half day K, she isn't wiped out like she would be otherwise (she tends towards reactive hypoglycemia).

I actually took DS to a psychologist last week and got some private testing done but don't have the results yet. I'm not sure how he did because he gets silly sometimes. I also took him to his pediatrician who said that he thinks that his behavior problems are the result of him being so bored. I am thinking that maybe I can bring the test results and a letter from his pediatrician to his school and see if they'll work with me.

He's in the gifted program but he only gets 90 minutes once a week. He loves that time and does extremely well but it's way less than he needs.

I'm afraid that because he seems to have already lost interest in Kindergarten and doesn't participate they can't see how really advanced he is.

That's great Sciencemama!! So is her anxiety getting better?

What is selective mutism?

Hi everyone. Just skimming a bit; so sorry to hear about the crying after drop off, mamaandmore.

Here's a quick update. Got DS5's first projects back on Friday. One was a picture of himself and his dog. Me: "Why did you give yourself a frowny face?" DS5: "Because it is a school day." I won't read too much into it yet. Another interesting comment, when I was pulling teeth to get info. He said he didn't think he'd like the parts of kindergarten when it seems like they're just wasting time. He would not elaborate, and I fear I will attribute every comment to his not being in the right placement if I pull things out of context. Though, getting context from this kid is hard! Like JBDad, I have gotten a little more info at bedtime. But not enough for me!

I hope that he starts to like it more!

I think that's a great plan. I think it's a hard concept to explain to the teachers (I was told never to use the word "bored.") Hopefully it will help if the school gets something official from medical professionals explaining his behavior.

Sciencemama - It sounds like your DD has a great teacher and environment. I hope the year continues to go well.

Although I didn't expect my kid to be excited about kindergarten, it was hard to talk to some of my mom friends about how their kids liked kindergarten and hear "Oh, he can't stop talking about it and can't wait to go back." I would love to be able to say that someday.

Not trying to analyze too much...but you know this is my field and what I do. Maybe the dog was sad on a school day because he was going to miss your DS. DS didn't have a frown on : )

We paid for a private Woodcock Johnson achievement test for DD5 and gave the principal the results last spring. The principal offered to grade skip but we asked to try subject acceleration first because of DD5's asynchronous behavior. DD5 goes to 1st grade in the morning for reading & math. She's with her K class in the afternoon for lunch, recess & specials (art, PE, music, computer, science, library). So far this seems to be going well and the aggravation we've saved has offset the expense of testing. With DD7 we waited for the school to do the testing and that was an exercise in frustration.

Well, the dog actually had a smiley face. DS had a frowny face. I'll ask him why the dog was smiling! Oh, and he had another frowny face on some workbook page where he was supposed to draw a picture of how he felt.

LOL, well there goes my theory right out the window. Maybe the dog is mad at DS and looking forward to some alone time : ) It's strange...sometimes the faces mean something and sometimes they don't. Sometimes that is how they feel during that activity...not implying that is how they feel about school. DS5 has never drawn a sad face...but I know he has been sad before. Everyone is always SUPER happy...even when he has to make something he doesn't want to. So you really just don't know.

I knew there were issues when my then DS5 drew a picture of the school building on fire! Didn't have to analyze that one too much to figure out how he was feeling....

selective mutism is a severe social anxiety disorder causing a person who normally can speak in places of comfort (like at home), reflexively shut down their speech in places of discomfort (like at school or in front of strangers). This goes beyond ordinary shyness/slow to warm up behavior. While most traditionally shy children might spend up to a month in a school setting being very quiet, they eventually relax and start talking.

The selectively mute child simply can not. They want to, but they can't bring themselves to speak. It persists beyond the first month, and without proper assistance, it can persist into adulthood.

It is basically a function of an improperly resolved primitive reflex - the fight/flight or freeze response. Most babies Moro Reflex and a little known Fear Paralysis Reflex gets integrated into the background. For those with selective mutism, it does not. The child feels "all eyes" are on them, and there is a high sense of "if I do something they will laugh at me" feeling. My daughter wanted to speak at times, but told me that "the words were there but wouldn't come out".

Oftentimes, selectively mute children have higher than average intellect. I believe in part because they are so "switched on" to the world, nothing gets past, and because of asynchronous development - the cognitive abilities far surpass the emotional ones. There is usually a co-existing sensory processing issue as well - again, too switched on to the sensations coming in, increases anxiety.

In case anyone would want to read about her journey, it's here

Our Daughter's Selective Mutism Journey - the summary

I blogged about it in order to help others. I think it has helped some parents cope and understand things a little better.

Her social anxiety is pretty much gone after all we've done. Now she just has generalized anxiety - mostly about bad dreams and monsters.

That's got to be so hard. I'm going look at your blog in a minute. Does she talk a little in school?

Well this year is still getting worse.

The last two days he got notes home from the teacher. He's running and skipping in the classroom and constantly talking to himself. Today the teacher took most of his recess away and said he was better after that. He's now telling me that he doesn't like school anymore I was so optimistic about this year and as the days go by I get more and more negative. I feel like I'll never find a good fit for him.

It is 100 % better with regards to speech in school. She's talking just fine in school this year. It only took 2 years

I'm sorry. It is still early, though. We have gotten a few days of "I hate school, school is dumb." But followed by a couple of good days. I'm guessing that it takes at least a month for everyone to get settled in kindy. I hope things get better for your DS.

Alright folks. I could use some advice. DS5 is happy with K and his teacher and he doesn't misbehave when he's bored. But the work he brings home from school is unbelievably basic ... tracing 1-5 and gluing them next to pictures. Identifying top, middle and bottom. You get the picture. I've asked him if he's read anything to his teacher yet (it is week 3, after all). His answer: No. She hasn't asked me to. Then, he tells me that another little boy told him that 5-year-olds don't read yet. I heard DS5 tell another child yesterday afterschool that he could count to 1 million, and the child told DS5 that he didn't believe him.

None of this bothers my very mellow boy (other than he did tell me that he's tired of doing such easy work). Of course, it's all driving me nuts!

So, do I keep waiting for them to assess him? A former K teacher tells me that once they assess him, they should automatically move him to 1st grade for reading without me asking. I'd rather not fully grade skip him, but am wondering if I'm making the right decision. How would you handle it?

Have you talked to the teacher about what he's able to read? Maybe you can call her and talk to her before you decide what to do?

we're in a similar boat and i feel like calling the school and just saying everythign i think..tonite my DD's homework was to create an AB pattern out of a red and blue apple. Last night she had to "sing happy birthday to 5 children in her class, and have parent write the kids names in your homework notebook"..

however..after dealing with the school for yesrs with my other child, i've learned the hard way that, unfotunately, you usually have to work very hard to preserve the ego of the teacher while at the same time getting your point across. This can be a tiresome process but generally goes like this "i don't know what to do, Sally just doesn't seem to be herself at homework time".. "what do you mean?".. so they are now in role of"solving" the problem..then add lots of "What do you thinks"..gently leading them to conclude what you already knew when you picked up the phone. good luck

irene

mom2twoboys - I'd talk with the teacher. Since he's so mellow, she may not even be aware of his capabilities.


And on my front... DS's testing is over with. We meet next week to discuss his results, etc. They scheduled the meeting for Thursday, but I asked to do it on Tuesday. If I have to wait an ENTIRE week, I might give myself an ulcer from the anxiety!!! I'm so nervous and excited I can't stand it.

So sorry Jamie. I don't have much advice but I feel your pain. DS5 is in first and is having a rough time following directions, listening etc. I don't think his behaviors would be that atypical in K, but they are much less forgiving in first so he has lost half of recess a few times, and all of it one day. I am discouraged but still hopeful. They haven't at all started challenging him academically but they have talked about pulling him out to work with him and doing other things. This week is the first full week so it's all pretty new. I think they really are trying but are just not used to a child like this, which is understandable.

Good luck! Keep us updated!

DS8 who was not skipped had the same sorts of trouble in 1st grade with discipline issues, Shelly. For him it was about frustration and boredom.

Update on my DS5: he is starting to talk negatively about K. *sigh* I'm encouraging him to talk specifically about what's bothering him even as I tell him that school is not optional and remind him that he has been telling me he's having a good time. So what's changed? It's not an easy balance. I don't want him to give up for no reason. But I also don't want him to be in an ill-fitting situation. And I don't want my concerns to influence how he feels about school. It's hard!

He's also started doing 4-digit multiplication (with 0s in the 10s and 1s places) in his head without being taught. He's fascinated by time, so he's figuring out how many seconds are in X minutes. He got 13 minutes correct, which surprised me since 13x60 seemed like a pretty tough problem, so I asked him to do one out loud--22 minutes--to let me hear how he was thinking it through. I realized that he was multiplying 20x60 and 2x60 and adding them together.

The way he has leapt ahead in math is really shocking to me. To be honest, even though I already have one HG+ child, the sudden onset of this math ability and intense interest for DS5 is freaking me out.

To make matters worse, I'm sure the teacher has no idea yet. They have yet to even count in class. It's a challenge...

Kriston, maybe he's being teased about something? Sometimes they state they hate school when in fact, they just have a problem they don't know how to deal with (DS5.5 had a tummy ache... after much prying, I found out he didn't want to ride the bus with one of the boys b/c he wouldn't stop acting like a chicken to DS when DS asked him to stop).

I'm sure he's bored as well, which doesn't help. Maybe you can ask him what HE would say if he were you and wanted to talk to his teacher???

We're dealing with this too. I hear more along the lines of "the only good parts are recess and lunch." Oh - and the pretty curly-haired girl. [Have I mentioned my major coup in getting her in the class because she was the only thing he liked about preschool?] Since this is the first full week, I'm letting all this slide for awhile. The kid has never done anything for 6 hours, so there's a big adjustment.

So Kriston - surely you must be getting over your GT denial with DS2?

Shellymos - I'm sorry to hear about the troubles. But the good news is that they sound like they want to help. I hope the pullouts work out.

Good luck!!!

Today he had his weekly 90 minute enrichment class and he was so excited to go to school. I'm so glad that he at least has something to look forward to. He said it was during art and he was going to miss having art so I think I'll get some art supplies out when he gets home and let him make something.

Wow! That's so great that he's able to do those problems in his head!!! How is his school for giving him more advanced classwork?

They're not giving him anything more advanced right now, Jamie. In fairness, I haven't asked them to yet. I'm trying to give them a chance to settle in. I know from DS8's experiences that they won't do anything different for the first 6 weeks at least, regardless of what I tell them. I did mention where he was in arithmetic in my introductory letter to the teacher that they ask us to write.

It's only half-day K--less than 3 hours, with one recess in there--so it should be okay for a few weeks, I think. We do allow DS5 to afterschool as needed, though it's definitely all child-driven, like those math problems. At most I say, "Would you like me to give you a problem?" If he says no, then I'm fine with not doing anything.

Frankly, knowing our school system, I'm probably not going to advocate much. I'm not good at advocacy and I know the school won't go far enough even if I do advocate. (BTDT, seen others who have BTDT, know it's not worth it to bang my head against that wall at our school if he's really HG+... If he's MG, it could be worth it. HG+, no.) I'd just homeschool. It would be easier on everyone.

JJsMom: DS5 is usually VERY open about things that bother him (or make him happy). In pre-K, he would tell me little stuff that had happened and I'd tell the other moms, who had no idea. Soon the moms started coming to me to ask about things that had happened because DS5's reports were so accurate. He's my little heavy-on-feeling extrovert. Nothing is secret or unspeakable. He tells all!

So if there's something specific that's wrong, I think he'll say so. He has friends, he likes the bus ride (VERY short! He's the last one on and the first one off in the afternoon!). I've heard no specific problems. That's why I'm not too worried yet. I suspect he's being told to sit still and be quiet and he doesn't love that. But he needs that at this point, so I don't have a problem with it if that's what's happening. Boredom would be a different issue.

SPG: Yup, I think I've been suddenly and irrevocably jolted out of my GT denial re: DS5! But in my defense, this math stuff really has been a big and sudden change. Maybe 10 months ago, he could count and that's about it. Multi-digit multiplication was not on my radar until this week, and he's mastering it. In his head! Like BAM! It's like it just all clicked and he's jumped WAY ahead! It's pretty amazing/crazy/frightening/exciting to see happen. I'm definitely still trying to come to grips with it...

Still no reading though. I'm still wondering if he's got some LD or visual issue (he's seeing the behavioral opthamologist in a couple of weeks) or if this is just another "nothing until he's ready, and then mastery in a matter of minutes" things, like writing and arithmetic were for him. I'm not sure.

I'm sorry to hear that so many kids are complaining about K Hopefully the teachers will be able and willing to do something for them.

JJsMom, good luck at the meeting. In the meantime keep yourself busy and try to forget about the test results. I know, easier said than done.

Kriston, I think there is one thing you may want to ask for, the achievement and IQ test You know to have it done and paid by school before you pull him out. I am sort of kidding on pulling him out. It's not really so bad to homeschool two. Things are going better than I expected. It may have to do with the fact that I created quite bleak scenarios in my head. Things are not perfect but far from horrible. I've survived almost 2 weeks of homeschooling 2 children. And not to scare you your DS5 reminds me of my mathy DS7 when he was his age. Simple algebraic equations are next

P.S. I remember reading about you facing problems with DS8 having to do more work. I don't recall which thread I read it in. PM, I would like to hear more details and don't want to talk about it on the K thread.

So weird this could easily be my Tigger but he's probably a wee bit behind yours. He's always been fascinated with time - to begin with it was days and dates - if I live to be 100 how many years left, then how many months, weeks, days etc. Then it was down to hours, minutes, seconds. Now anything to do with time has to be calculated to the exact minute. We're going out at 8am, its now 7.42am so he has to tell you that we only have 18mins to go. I had to think to work that out and he just rattles it off like its so easy peasy!

His progress in math this last few weeks has also really freaked me out - its not so much the what but the speed... both for picking up new concepts and doing the actual calculations. His last lot of work I wrote the answers for him because his brain was whirring through so fast he was getting frustrated because he couldn't write them down quick enough.

As for school - yep hear you - which is why we are now doing things after school to keep him buzzing (and me sane as it gets him off time calculations for a bit). My girlfriends tell me their girls (about 7 months younger than DS - so about 6.5) are working on adding up the numbers on a dice in math and they don't even get spelling to learn - they freaked when they saw Tigger's list of 15 this week. (Referred, receiver, doubt etc) 15/15 right again this week - amazes me every week he brings a list home I think no way - but he does it...

Indeed!

I was planning to wait until the spring testing to request it (if the teacher didn't suggest it). I thought he might be reading my then, so we might get a truer read of his across-the-board capabilities. But I think I'm putting in the request for fall, just to be safe.

I still do want him to last the year if he can. It's 2.5 hours! Come on! But I will pull him if it seems unworkable for him. I'm starting to get my ducks in a row for talking to the teacher. It may have to happen sooner rather than later if I want to keep him in the class. Doggone it, anyway!

I think the worst part is that I wasn't really ready for all this. I just didn't see it coming. Less than a year ago, he could count, but that was it. How was I to know this was coming? *sigh*


You give me hope. Thank you!



At least I am forewarned. I greatly prefer that to being taken completely off-guard! Thanks, as always.



I'll PM you. Thanks for asking. I want to hear more about your first 2 weeks, too...

I should have known better than to be surprised, I guess. I have been accused of GT denial on this forum re: this child more times than I can count. But seriously, it all just happened. Really fast. Almost overnight. From nothing...to total mastery. That's crazy!

I'm glad you understand my freaked-outedness, spook. Thanks. It helps.

I do smile a bit when I hear of half day kindy - Here in NZ the kids generally start school (Mon-Fri, 9-3) on their 5th Birthday (by law they don't have to attend till they are 6 but its pretty unusual to hold them back) and in the UK they can still be 4 depending on where their birthday falls. I remember my girlfriend being really upset that her *baby* was starting school and only 4.

Now my DS started 9-3 Montessori at 2.5yrs because he was driving me nuts - I could not keep up with his constant demand for stimulation, looking back maybe that should have given me a few clues

I like half-day K, absolutely! It can be a real lifesaver for a GT kid. Half a day of boredom is a lot more tolerable than a full day. I'm hoping that holds true for DS5...

Never thought of it that way and looking back DS was probably being more challenged in pre-school as they knew him better and he had the flexibility to select his own tasks for most of the day where-as when he hit school and he had to do the 'baby' work that he had nailed in pre and couldn't self select to keep himself occupied that was when we hit the boredom problems...

Yes. Pre-K was a good fit for both my kids even though they weren't accelerated at all. But a half-day of self-selected activities means they get more or less what they need out of it. A full day of "sit down and do what I tell you" is frustrating.

When I ask, "What did you learn today in K?' DS5 is already responding "I don't LEARN anything in K, Mommy."

We are in the same boat! K for my ds5 goes until 1 pm and it is dreadful for him. The only activities that make it bearable for him are the specials like music and yoga (a parent volunteer teaches it).

His previous experience is 2 and a half years of self-selected (mont.), so the "sit down and and color in the lines like I tell you" got old pretty quickly.

and judging by the work he brings home and what he tells me, he is also not learning anything new at school.

DH and I are still supplementing at home. tried talking to the teacher but she is not receptive.

Oh, Kriston, I get that too even though it is language immersion. He says it's too hard and it's boring, all in the same sentence.

And here is a lesson learned from our family: one of the original points that we were making with the school is that we would have been more okay with going into K if it was full day. Yeah, I look back at that and think "wow I was really off base on that one!"

JB

So true. This year DS5 would have been starting K. It was half day in our district last year, but this year they went to full day. When they went to full day I knew he should go to first...but if it was half day, we probably would have done K and then skipped to second. We are having a meeting on Thursday in part due to DS5 acting out in his first grade class (talking out of turn, not raising his hand, not following directions). Nothing surprising I suppose based on how simple a lot of the stuff is, but it's hard because it's still not appropriate behavior. DS says he likes school (mostly lunch, recess, and gym), but he just started talking to me about how hard it is to sit through single digit addition and watching the teacher teach other kids how to read. He says that he hasn't even read in class yet. That's pretty sad because he really enjoys reading. Thankfully the psychologist who tested him will be coming to our meeting to advocate for his needs too. They have done no subject acceleration as they were waiting for behaviors to improve and wanted to wait a month for him to adjust to the routine. LOL, some people are well intended but just don't get it. Anyhow, I am thankful we will now have support through DYS and the psychologist/educational consultant that tested DS5 because I think we are going to need it.

Yeah, I always love that one: "waiting for behaviors to improve." sigh.

I too agree that half-day K is much easier than a full-day program and not only for gifted students. I don't even agree with the length of the day for the rest of the elementary classes in US. Where I am originally from the school day lasts from 8 to 12 in the 1st grade, in the 2nd grade you may go two days till 1 p.m., in the 3rd you may add another day till 1. The number of hours spent at school slowly builds up. You never see 1st grader spending as much time at school as a high school student.

Kids need to play and have free time, lots of it. They even need to get bored here and there. Spending more time at school doesn't guarantee better education. I would go as far as saying that more is less in this case.

One of the reasons our older one went to a private Montessori was that they offered half-day K. Unfortunately even that wasn't a solution for us. After a month he started acting out at home big time. By November he was asking to be homeschooled. I don't even want to think what a full day program with no accommodations would do to him.

That's brilliant and I totally agree.

I've enjoyed reading everyone's posts. Keep 'em coming!

I wanted to update you on our situation.

As you may remember, dd5 is in a private, gifted school.

I had great fears over the summer that dd would be silly or otherwise "throw" the kindergarten placement screening. It appears my fears were unfounded.

The differentiation has already begun in reading and math. All I know is that she is in the "most challenging" math group according to her teacher. And that her reading group consists of only two children (there are six different, ability-grouped reading groups in her class of 20 kids). We got a note from the teacher saying while other parents may be discussing sight word lists, there was no need to send any home for dd5 because she was, "...reading above the 2nd grade level." So that seems promising.

Honestly, I'm not 100% sure that dd is being "challenged" yet. I think she can do more than she's being asked to in both reading and math. But she seems happy and since we're less than a month into the school year, so am I.

Happy is a good start!

Thanks, Kriston.

Fingers crossed we stay that way.

I agree with this! Oh how I wish we had half day Kindergarten

I get that too

UGH! Sounds like us...can't the teachers see that part of the behavior problems are due to them being so bored? Good luck at your meeting!

That's so good that the teacher at least realizes that your daughter is way above the normal level. And it's great that she's happy

Well last week was a bad week. Bad, bad, bad. We got notes sent home every single day.

I do think that DS might have a touch of ADD but I'm still not sure. I attribute a lot of it to him being bored and to his mind running so fast with nothing to focus it on. I think that if he had more challenging work his brain would at least have something to focus on.

I'm so glad to hear some of our kindergarteners are doing so well.

I'm feeling frustrated and have to remind myself this is only the second full week. As far as I can tell the teacher is unaware that he can read let alone that he can read at a much higher level. There was a fun event last week and when we went to play bingo she commented how it would be good practice for letters and numbers. I was rather shocked especially since this is the same teacher that I spoke with about his reading long before we enrolled in the school. I'm hoping it was just an auto response after a long week. The reason I chose the school and went with the all day program is because I believed they could differientiate, now I'm not so sure.

He has the NWEA testing this week and conferences not long after so I'm hoping to see how that goes and to learn something soon. He also does well at math although he's not as far ahead. I was also disappointed to learn there's no real science in kindergarten, this is my kid who loves science.

I do want to see what they say, my hope is that he can just skip kidnergarten reading and go to science in another grade. I feel at a total loss especially since I don't have an assessment, just my observations. DS loves school, like another posted mentioned he'll happily sit there and relearn something he's known for years. He has a hard time challenging himself, he always says he's not good at something, he gets frustrated with the learning stage.

Would the school board test him for gifted now?

I don't know if they'll test under any circumstance. It's a small charter and I don't know if they can. I'm considering private pay but would rather not go out of pocket for the first round. I could pull him and put him in the local public but I wasn't thrilled with what they did either, it's why I decided to try someplace like this.

It is possible they'll be able to handle it, I am impatient, it has been a worry for a long time and I want to get him in a position where he'll start to challenge himself.

My son was at a private school when the school board tested him. The private school wasn't able to test him on their own.

sorry Jamie! DS5 had a really rough week last week too. Friday was better and yesterday was even better so I would like to think that he is getting more used to the routine and is going to start following directions better. He tells me he is going to have a perfect day today. Who knows. He was excited in talking about school a lot yesterday. He did start getting ridiculous homework last night. We need to discuss this at his meeting. It is hard because I don't want him to be separated too much from the other kids...but do I allow him to do his 3 letter spelling words just because they are easy and he won't even have to look at them? I figured that writing his spelling words 3 times each at least gives him writing practice. Anyhow, I am hoping for a better week, and I am hoping that before this meeting he shows his teacher that he does know how to behave.

About what you said about the ADHD, there can be characteristics and your DS could have it...but I think it is really important to look at the distinguishing differences between ADHD and a child that is gifted that is just bored and acting out. I am absolutely sure my DS does not have ADHD...but I have seen times and circumstances where one could think he has ADHD. And he has definitely done ridiculous things that are impulsive at times (again mostly when bored). But these behaviors he as do occur at times where he is not stimulated. He doesn't get distracted easily when he is focused on things that are challenging. He does sit for long periods of times engaged in activities. He isn't generally hyperactive or impulsive, although he is 5 and gets silly sometimes. I would check out that book...I think it is called misdiagnosis of the gifted child or something. I used to have it but I lent it to someone and it is now gone. It is a good book and helps to see the difference between characteristics of something and an actual diagnosis. There is a big difference and it would be helpful for you know in order to best meet his needs. : )

Thanks for the book recommendation. I'll look for it online. I feel like Isaac's behaviors happen when he's not stimulated as well.

I don't know about homework? So far all we've had is writing his name three times, telling which group has more and tracing the letter A. He does all of his homework just to practice his writing too. Then after that if he asks for harder worksheets I find some here to give him.

When is your meeting?

Here's a bit of nice news. We have a school nearby our house that was closed several years ago. We were walking by it and I said, "Wouldn't it be nice if you could go to school here, since it's so close?" DS5 said, "Yes, but only if Mrs. X would still be my teacher."

I'm so happy he likes his teacher.

We are still avoiding asking DS if he learned anything at school... I think we'll probably skip that question this year.

That must make you feel good knowing that he likes his teacher!

Thursday morning. Tomorrow afternoon I am taking DS to meet with the psychologist that tested him. She wants to hear how things are going and see how he is doing so that she can advocate with us as well. She is also going to the meeting on Thursday.


That is a really good sign. I am also excited that DS5 seems interested in things that he completely already gets. Like his teacher decided that the kids are going to wear a color a day for 2 WEEKS! It is annoying the heck out of me and can't see how she thought that was a good idea...but he gets excited waking up and he has already memorized the schedule of what dates = which colors. Whatever works I guess. We also have not asked about learning anything. We ask if anything exciting happened, if anything silly happened, what was the best part of the day, what was the worst part. he usually says "there wasn't any worst part it was all good." He is a glass half full kind of kid, which is very good.

That's so good that your DS is still having a positive experience, especially with some of his bad days. There is hope! And that is so wonderful that you will have the support of your psych at the meeting.

Just catching up here...

SPG - so glad your son likes his teacher. That's great!

shellymos - good luck with your meeting with your psychologist (advocate) and also with your meeting on Thursday morning at school.

JamieB - so sorry you had a bad week. We're there too, so I feel for you.

I think I jinxed myself when I posted after the third day of school that my son loves it. Seems his behavior has been going downhill.... disruptive, not following the rules, talking out of turn, etc., etc., etc. I know there are parts of his day that he is probably bored, but they are subject-accelerating him in reading and math, providing extra enrichment in reading, and in fact they realize where he is at math is too easy for him, so they are trying to figure out where to place him next. So, it's not that they aren't trying, in fact, I've been very happy with their efforts. When they tell me that they want him to be challenged and actually learn something, I do believe that they get it. But his behavior now is really starting to cause a problem. This roller coaster ride is killing me!

I'll have to check into that, I didn't think they would.

I did talk to a teacher about him a bit today and feel a bit better that they can work with him. He did well on his math assessment and she said they will teach him at his level so I'm encouraged. He is having some behavior issues and I don't think it's boredom, I'm hoping that doesn't make things harder.

You're right, m2gts, it's a roller coaster ride.

What have they said about his behavior?

JamieB, they tell me that a lot of his issues have to do with self-control and getting his own way. Examples: He has a hard time sitting still (moves around a lot when the kids are sitting down on the ground) and will invade other kids' personal space, even when sitting at a table. He'll melt down when the teacher is doing something and he doesn't want to do it, or if the teacher wants to move on and he doesn't want to. Also they tell me he hasn't been following the rules (e.g., will raise his hand to answer a question but then will blurt out the answer when not called, being disruptive in this manner to the point where the teacher can't teach).

With all that said, I went in today to volunteer and he was having a much better day! It's really been a roller coaster, because all days haven't been bad, but some days worse than others. They set up a special behavior chart for him so that he can focus on certain behaviors, and hopefully that is working. He seems to be starting to focus on it. It's hard to read him sometimes, because part of it, I think, is him being 5 (and also very asynchronous), but part of it is that he can be very stubborn - a contrarian and sometimes I think he enjoys the reaction he gets.

So, I'm taking one day at a time at this point....the roller coaster ride continues and the gray hairs continue to multiply!

This sounds SO much like my son. It's like you're describing him. So your son was well behaved when you were there? Maybe I should try that.

DS5.5 starts 1st grade officially next week. Now just to figure out how to tell him exactly... while he was involved in the decision, he was not at our school/parent meeting this morning. They left it up to us to tell him.

I might be more nervous about that conversation than I was waiting for this meeting!

Ugh. DS5's school meeting did not go very well today. There were several disconcerting statements such as "boredom is a choice." and "we are not required to meet the needs of a profoundly gifted child" and so on. They are going to try some new things and possibly some computer programs, but I am not feeling so good about this. Also not feeling good since the principal said that she hasn't identified any other gifted kids in the 20 years she has worked there. That can't be right and kids are clearly being overlooked. I am going to have to put on my research and adovocacy hats permanently. I guess I will just glue them to my head. : )

oh no shellymos! that is NOT good. i have some crazy glue if you need some! ((hugs))

It's strange because at our first meeting before school she was great. She talked about meeting his individual needs and that children that are that high IQ have special needs and need special services. She even said that she was a gifted and talented advisor or something. She met with him and took him into a couple classes and felt that he should skip K and go to first. So...she kind of got it. I do think she is going to try things but she was quite defensive and no one was coming at her. It may because of the psychologist that I brought with me, but she was not confrontational at all. I don't know. I just hope they don't forget about DS5 and get caught up in policies. The few good things that were said included looking into mentors from the high school, looking into their use of the reading and math specialist and using the computer lab for him. She wrote down lots of suggestions and took brochures for materials. But I guess because of all the other comments and things it makes me anxious.

That just doesn't make sense! Hopefully things will work out for your DS. I'm sure they will!

Oh, no! I don't like to hear that at all. So sorry!

I'm sorry the meeting did not go well. We have also heard the "boredom is a choice" statement before. Urgh...

It also begs for a child to find ways to alleviate boredom. That may not go the way she thinks it will go...

I liked when the principal said that she expects my 5yo son (who just turned 5 a couple months ago) to let them know that he is not being challenged and tell them what he needs. The psychologist and I looked at eachother and then back at her and said "he is telling you that through his behavior" Now he would easily be able to verbally tell them or nonverbally write it (that is our new plan) but only if something would actually happen. Clearly all of the papers will indicate that work is too easy...but then what? Is he actually given harder work because they said they don't even know what to give him.

About the boredom, I read an article recently that talked about how adults get bored but are able to deal with that boredom productively. They can take breaks, and they know it won't last forever and can do other things to deal with the boredom. Kids don't have all those resouces and time stands still. Which is why they have to do things to stimulate themselves and keep their mind going (which is often looked at as behavioral problems).

And about finding more ways to deal with the boredom, DS asked in response to his 6 colored behavior system...what if I get worse than the last color, what happens then? Uhhh...let's not even go there.

((shellymos))
I hate those mixed messages and double talk - skives me right out. The trick is to partition the whole past relationship with any school folk who are giving you a hard time and focus-focus-focus on the needs of the child and possible solutions. It's an odd trick, but I know you'll get the hang of it. You may not get the accomidations you are looking for, but at least your entire mind won't go crazy. Just that little walled off part that you can vent about here for the next 20 years. Hopefully somethings will have changed by then.

anyway - I am going to reccomend that you write an email that outlines what was said at the difficult meeting, show it to us, and then send it to the meeting participants. Something like: 'Thanks so much for meeting with me. You clearly care very deeply for my son's social and emotional health, which makes me so happy. Many things were discussed and I wanted to be sure that I fully understood the various problems that you are seeing and the possible solutions, etc.'

Then you list all the key problems and possible solutions. This puts them on notice that you were at the meeting, that you were paying attention, that you are a team player, and that you expect SOMETHING good to happen.

If this sounds degrading, it is, and I appologise, but I'm guessing that you would do a whole lot more degrading things, if you had to, for your child's benifit. I know I would. I find that reminding myself of those other things that I would do if I had to helps me be strong. Either they hold all the cards, or they don't- if they don't then play your cards, if they do then do your best.

BTW - what did your advocate think of the meeting? Can she help debrief you?

I think it's great that you can post here. Even though I was already in YSP after some of my bad meetings, I would be in so much pain after them that I was totally unable to talk or type about it for at least 3 weeks. Just Awful!

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Does he want to go to 1st grade?

Oh my goodness how frustrating!!! How do you choose to be bored?

Oh it won't take long. My 4 year old was sent home quite a bit last year for having rough days. He loved being able to come home with me.

He's only 5. I just don't see any way for him to tell them what he needs or even that he's bored. They should look at his behavior and be able to tell.

Wow, shellymos, so sorry to hear that the meeting did not go well today. You are definitely getting mixed messages from that principal. It's like kcab said, the principal has probably never dealt with the reality of a PG child. My son's school is right there with you in terms of trying to figure out what to give him in math. It's so hard...

JJsMom - good luck telling your son about 1st grade! I hope all goes well.

Well, off to the bus stop.... I hope today was a good day....

Boredom is only a choice if there are options. If you have to sit at a desk and focus on things that are very plainly BORING then it stops being a choice and becomes state sanctioned torture IMHO... That is part of the point of accommodations, to give the child something that gives them the option of NOT being bored.

As for not being "required" to meet PG needs, true they aren't however you would think that educators would WANT to meet the needs of as many of their students as possible including those on the extreme ends of the spectrum. Isn't that what they spent those years in school for?

Sorry feeling a bit snitty today...

JJsMom, if he was involved in the decision hopefully he'll be thrilled that it worked out.

JJsmom and shellymos -

Don't have tiem for a long reply, but I sincerely hope everything works out for your DC.

As for our situation, I will save that for another post.

- EW

I wrote the teacher a note this morning and asked for a meeting to discuss my DSs behavior. She wrote me back and said she wants to meet Monday afternoon and that his gifted teacher also wants to be at the meeting. She wants me to bring in all of his test results and his IEP. I didn't bring up academics so I'm not sure why she wants this and I'm not even sure what we'll be discussing. I'm so nervous!

Jamie B - at least you got a prompt response and she seems interested. I'd take those to be good signs...

shellymos - I'm sorry to hear that you left your meeting feeling discouraged. I would be, too, if I heard some of those comments. But with later reflection, do you think maybe those few statements clouded the whole meeting for you? It did sound like some of the ideas were positive ones...

JJsMom -- Good luck telling your son! It sounds like you guys really have a good thing going.

Sending you all tons of positive vibes!!

I think that's incredibly encouraging.

Thanks for all your good feedback!
Yes Irisheyes....after coming down from all the negative comments, I did realize that there were some good things said and was planning to send out an email to the school to thank them and kind of reiterate my interpretation of the plan as they didn't really wrap it up at all. And no Grinity that is not at all degrading to me, it's good practice. These people watch my son all day and they can make it a good day or a bad day. And they did ask for resources and ideas, which made me feel good. I plan on sending them some resources. I was wondering if he could even do that time4learning things that others have talked about on this site. I think they would allow that. I want to send out a reminder also because today he had a really rough day and apparently they did nothing new or different for him. Hopefully tomorrow they can start.

JJ'smom - yay for DS going to first! Hope it is a good transition, hopefully he will be happy about this new change.

jamieB - Good luck at this meeting, whatever it is about. Probably like my situation, his behaviors prompted a quicker meeting. Sometimes that can be a good thing if they are willing to work with you and meet his needs!

shellymos - I think it's great that they asked for resources. That seems to me that at least they're willing to consider changing things up for him.

shellymos - I think that's good that they are asking for resources too, even though at first it seemed like a crummy meeting. (How can a 5yo choose to be bored? Ugh. Ask the teacher if they choose to go to the "new teacher" training seminar for their continuing education.) I remember coming back from our meeting with the school, and the things that stuck out the most were the negatives, but then I think maybe we're just on hyper alert to those. I hope that they listen.

Jjsmom- Sounds good! Good luck!

JamieB - Good luck at the meeting. I think it's a good sign that they want to meet with you sooner rather than later. At least they notice something.

JamieB - good luck with your meeting! I would be nervous too, but likes others said, this could be a good sign.

DSs gifted teacher called me today. She said she can't make the meeting on Monday but really wanted to talk to me. She said that she's been teaching gifted for over 30 years and has seen many gifted kids and that his problems with focusing are very troublesome. She said that she can't tell me to take him to a doctor but that if she were me she would. She didn't mention him jumping around and stuff like his teacher though. She said that the slightest thing makes him completely lose his train of thought. She said they were coloring a whale today and he had to get up three times to walk around so that he could focus again.

I think that I'll take him to another doctor. His pedi saw him but doesn't specialize in that so I guess I need another opinion. I've noticed it at home and I thought it was bad but he's my only child so I didn't have any other kid to compare it to.

The one problem is that his dad (who I am no longer married to) is against any kind of doctor visit about his behavior. Originally he was mad that I even got him tested for gifted because he just wants him to be a "normal" child. He doesn't even want to meet the teacher about his behavior because he thinks that it's something that DS will just grow out of. I know that if I tell him that I talked to the gifted teacher and what she said he's going to flip out.

I hope you find a good doc to take him too. The GOOD thing is if it is something like ADHD, he will have that added to an IEP!

And bummer about his dad. I can't imagine DH being against, if nothing else, finding out what is right and what is wrong. What if it was a physical issue like a million ear infections or brusing easily or what have you?

((HUGS))

I don't understand it either. I'm just going to do what I think is best and hope that in the end he agrees.

And that is good about adding it to the IEP. And they will make accommodations, right?

Yes, they will (or at least they are supposed to!!!).

Our school has this computer program which allows children to work at their individual levels. It may be worth looking into:
http://www.studyisland.com/

Grinity, I loved how you explained the partition trick. Adding it to the Quote page so I can find it the next time I need it!

Boredom is a choice! My mum used to use that one whenever I was moping around going - I'm bored. At home - fair enough we always had books to read and games to play but in the school environment it's not as if you can just wander off and pick up a book of your choice (although DS used to do this on a regular basis and when I got to school I was met with "Tigger chose not to take part in class today and just sat in the reading corner with a book"!)- but generally they are expected to comply and join in with the class so how can it be a choice!

And as for not being required to meet the needs.... eh - I thought it was law that the education needs of all children be met (including PG)

Hope it gets better - it did for us, we moved school where they at least try to meet his needs.

But they must have had a slack day today, (which is ok it is the last day of term) as DS has come home and got stuck into one of his computer games(gives questions on school curriculum based topics in reward for games - he skips the games to do more questions, sad kid LOL)

hugs dear....i hAte those phone calls. Have you read Webb's Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis book. I strongly reccomend that u read it before Mondays meeting if possible. There is a chapter on ADHD. I would also spend time afterschooling this week and see if the walking around continues when he is working inside his 'readiness level.' Does he get distracted even with u right there under every circumstance or just some circumstances. If you can go into the meeting knowing ur child as a learner then u will be in a stronger position to get their help. I wish I had advice for handling XH but I dont. What happens if u step back and ask the school to deal with him independently? As for the 30 years bit,dont let that impress u if you child happens to be at the more unusual levels of giftedness. Sorry but I've forgotten if ur son hit several ceilings on his testing. love and more love grinity

((((hugs)))) I agree with Grinity that you should be prepared to explain how ADHD and giftedness get confused sometimes. But if you have noticed some behaviors at home that you wonder about, maybe it is a good time to see a psychologist; if you can, find one who specializes in 2E kids. There's a chart somewhere showing the similarities between gifted/ADHD. I have to run, but I'll try to post it later if no one beats me to it.

Also, I agree with Grinity to ignore the "i've been teaching gifted for 30 years." I actually like our school district's gifted coordinator, but she says some things I don't agree with (e.g. she doesn't like whole-grade acceleration).

Best of luck to you!

Yay, the principal emailed me a program this morning that the school is going to use as a free trial and possibly purchase to use with DS5 at school for Math and Reading. I am excited about it because surprisingly, they seem to be moving quickly. I am hopeful that he will still get some one on one instruction and do things with older peers, but this is a great start.

great news shellymos!!!

Thanks for sharing the good news shellymos! Please keep us updated when you have more details about the program and how it's working out.

I haven't read the book and it's not at our library. I'll see what I can find online.

I do afterschool him pretty often and for the most part he can focus. He does get up and take lots of breaks when we do it though. I'd say every 5 minutes or so I have to get him back on task. But sometimes he can focus forever. It just depends on what's going on.

We have had problems at home with him focusing. If I need to tell him something a lot of times I have to sit in front of him and make sure he's looking directly at me with nothing else going on or he won't hear me. And if he waits one minute to do what I ask he forgets what he's supposed to do.

I'm not sure if he hit the ceilings or not. I don't know much about what the scores mean but I don't think that he did.

I'm going off to search the Internet for misdiagnosis. Thanks!

I also wanted to add that up until a few months ago I wouldn't even have considered taking him to a doctor but one of the things he does that worries me has gotten worse. He can't get a sentence out. We've been working on it but it seems like it's only getting worse. I've had him sit quietly and think about the sentence that he wants to say and he still can't do it. He says "um" and pauses forever. Sometimes it will take him 5 or 10 minutes to get out what he's trying to say.

I hesitate to brag out DS4's school here because other people are having so many problems, but in light of the recent talk about negative posts dominating the forum, I've decided to come out and say our school is great and DS4 is thriving there!

As background, my son started full-day kindergarten about a month ago at a small private school where K-12 are all under one roof, and no grade has more than 10 kids. Because the school is so small, they can do extensive pretesting in all subjects and develop an individualized curriculum for each kid. It's not a gifted school per se (it's open to all students and is remarkably diverse), but the founder did graduate work in giftedness and started the school with gifted kids in mind. Not surprisingly, it attracts a lot of gifted students. Because they don't advertise themselves as a gifted school, I probably wouldn't have found them if it hadn't been for the Davidson site (THANK YOU!), even though they're located right by my house.

In kindergarten, my son is doing 4th grade reading and advanced math along with more age-appropriate work on things like writing. All the kids get hands-on science and geography lessons as well as weekly instruction in drama, PE, music and Spanish. They also get plenty of time to play with Legos (my son's favorite part of the day), regular field trips, and extra-curriculars like a Lego club and soccer (with the school--not the parents--hauling the kids!).

So far, everything the kindergarten teacher has said has been music to my ears. She has profoundly gifted kids herself and gets things like perfectionism, which she has been working through with my son. For shock value and to remind parents how good they've got it, she often brings up what the public school curriculum would be for the current week (i.e., "on" vs. "under"). And the best part is, the school is relatively affordable for a private, individually-tailored education.

My son has literally cried more than once when I've gone to pick him up (sometimes as late as 5:00, depending on my schedule), because he wanted to stay longer to play on the playground or build with Legos. I keep saying the teachers there must think we beat him at home or something, because he'd rather be at school.

I know things could still take a turn for the worse, but so far, we've really got it made. Good schools do exist! We're just lucky to have one within our reach.

I hope this post doesn't come off as callous, considering all the very real struggles so many people here are going through. I sincerely wish things could be so easy for this entire group!

Jamie B - Here are a couple articles on gifte vs. adhd: http://www.kidsource.com/kidsource/content/adhd_and_gifted.html

http://giftedkids.about.com/od/giftedandld/a/gt_and_ld_3.htm

My DS5 sometimes takes a long time to get his thoughts out too, though not 5 or 10 minutes. For him, it seems to be related to perfectionism - he wants to get the exact right words. But I would say 5 to 10 minutes sounds like something to look into.

Shellmos - that is awesome! If it works out, I would love to know which program it is, so I can suggest something similar.

Ms Friz - WOW!!! That sounds fabulous. Clone that and bring it within driving distance to me, please!

Hi Jamie,
I would consider you look at that book, but also that you get an evaluation done just for more information. A few things that you said make me think this. 1. You mentioned he has difficulty focusing but other times he can focus really well on things. That can be because of his interest level or that could also be a symptom of a child with ADHD because they don't just not focus, they tend to hyperfocus and focus very well on certain activities. 2. The difficulty getting sentences out. That is most likely because he has so much going on in his head he is having trouble organizing it all. Things move so quickly in there and there are so many thoughts his mouth can't even keep up and he can't put it into words. So...while this could be him being gifted, again it can be a symptom of a child with ADHD. Children with ADHD often have a hard time with organizational skills, have a lot of thoughts going on as well. I am not saying he has or doesn't have it obviously, but those two things you mentioned as well as the school concerns makes me think that it can't hurt to get an evaluation done. It will help you out either way. If he has it, they can give you suggestions and treatment. If he doesn't, then you will have information for the schools if and when the topic comes up. Win, win. Good luck!

Thanks for the links!

It takes us about 15 minutes to get to school in the morning and the other day it took him almost that whole time to tell me one thing.

That's what I wast think too. I can take him to get another opinion and then I can decide what to do from there.

Ms Friz, that's AWESOME!!!! And I don't think it's callous or rude to talk about the GOOD. In fact, I think it's GREAT!


Us too!

DITTO!

I agree. I love happy stories!

There's room for both here. Always.

My sweet little DS5, who has resisted learning to write since he first tried a few years ago and nothing came out how he wanted it, wrote me a note last night. And he wrote the letters for the notes for his piano homework, without complaint.

He also commented the other day that he didn't like school so much because the only thing he's learning is how to write. He's kind of figured out the writing thing faster than I expected, and that was one of my big goals for the year... This is end of the 2nd full week, and we have a conference in 2 weeks, so I think we will hold our comments to the school until then. Or would you recommend writing up concerns to give to the teacher before the conference? I think I'll do that.

That's so sweet that he wrote you a note!!!

I'd probably write them up so that they have a chance to look them over.

I think that's wonderful and it shows it can be done!

I'm a little skeptical about the hyperfocus argument to discern between gifted and ADHD. Here's why - Lots of the books on ADHD are written by physicians who have ADHD. They are aware that they have ADHD and take about the pluses and minuses. Would you think that most physicians are also gifted, at least moderately gifted? Some are probably Highly gifted or more, and we can think of them as successful 2E's who's ultra high gifts 'cancel out' their disabilities, with hard work and luck. So when these experts who are still in denial about their giftedness (like other 2E's they spend a lot of time feeling stupid, particularly in comparison to their friends, and college and medical school buddies) say that they used 'hyperfocus' to get them through med school, I think that they used their 'gifted intensity' to get them through med school, and are attributing their strengths to the only label that they have to explain their success.

I mean, if anyone has research statistics about 'hyperfocus' in kids with ADHD of average IQ (in families with siblings of average IQ) I would love to see those statistics, until then, forgive me if I remain close minded.

But Jamie, I still think that the 'not being able to get words out' is worrisome. 5 minute attention span at age 5 - that might be age appropriate, I just have no idea. Will the school believe you if you have a dr. report that says 'no ADHD.' We had one that said 'Nonverbal learning disorder' but not ADHD, and the school told us that we were wrong. It was mind-boggling. Best Wishes,
Grinity

I'm not sure. I think I'll try one doctor and if he says that there's no ADHD I'll leave it at that since his pediatrician already said that thought it was just boredom.

This makes plenty of sense to me, since you have concerns, but I would be 'extra-careful' to read the book first (Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnosis) and try and choose someone who is used to the level of giftedness your son has. Best Wishes - it's isn't fair that we have to work so hard and 2nd guess outselves.
Grinity

Well, being a therapist at a children's mental health clinic for several years I saw it quite often. ADHD is not about lack of being able to sustain attention, it is a disregulation of attention...sometimes too much and sometimes not enough. Kids with ADHD often notice everything, but sometimes nothing. So often times kids can be very focused to the point of having a hard time transitioning to something else. I used to always hear the TV/computer argument with parents. They would say their child can't have ADHD because they can spend forever being engrossed in certain activities. They would say that their child would ignore them when the TV was on. Anyhow, don't have research on me, but I am sure there is plenty out there on it. I know I have read some of it when I was working in that position. There is a lot more to a diagnosis of ADHD, but just wanted to point out that I have seen children with ADHD that hyperfocus a lot in a population that was not gifted.

You're right! I seem to second guess myself so much!

My son is that way with the computer and TV. In fact we have completely gotten rid of our cable and have the TV only to watch movies every couple of weeks. DS is the same way with TV and computer. In fact even though I never let him watch much TV about a year ago I completely got rid of cable and he only watches a movie every few weeks. He'd get so engrossed in the TV that nothing would get through to him.

Just had a chance finally to read back on everyone's updates.

Jamie B: Hugs to you. Hope you figure out soon what's going on. This probably isn't your situation, but is DS on any medicines that could be contributing? We saw really erratic, awful behavior problems with my DS last winter/spring because of one of his asthma medicines. He didn't react in any other way so it took me awhile and a bunch of research to put the two together.

ShellyMos: Glad to see things are sorting out. Hope they stay on the good track!

MsFriz: Your school sounds like heaven.

Just a quick update here. DS5's teacher saw me on Thursday and told me that she'd finished her initial assessment and DS is currently in a reading group of 2, but that he'll have some work that he'll be doing alone. And they're putting him on the accelerated curriculum (not sure yet what that involves). Plus, the best news of all, she said that either she or the reading specialist is going to do further reading assessments on him! I think everyone's trying to figure out exactly where his reading level is and what he understands and doesn't with what he reads. Even I can't figure it out. He answers about half my questions about the books right.

Plus, she's got a puppet theater in the classroom that he loves. And I told her that he'd been reading Flat Stanley books at home. This weekend he told me that there's now a Flat Stanley book in the classroom library :-) Oh, and she's okay with his perfectionistic tendencies. So, when he wants extra time to do something just so, she gives it to him or sends it home for him to finish.

This has been SUCH a roller coaster month!

mom2twoboys - that's great news!

DS5.5 has his first day of 1st today - I can't wait to see how it went!

Hello everyone, It is getting harder for me to get on here lately. It is great to hear about all the Kindergartners, and I do read the posts when I can.

I wanted to suggest the book the Edison Trait for thinking about ADHD. I think the part of the book talking about divergent and convergent thinkers would be worth reading. I think children who are gifted or highly gifted and tend to have a more divergent thinking style could appear to share some ADHD traits and might easily be misdiagnosed. Also it seems that many school settings are geared for convergent thinkers making these ADD type traits stand out even more.

I wanted to give an update on DD4 who started K this fall. I was pretty skeptical at first as I did not have positive school experiences. DD seems to be enjoying Kindergarten. The teacher seems to have warmed up to her a lot and the school staff seem to like her a lot.

I still have not met the GT coordinator. I know DD met her but at this point the teacher wants to wait and let DD get used to the class before she has any other accommodations. The teacher differentiates and DD seems to be happy. She is in half day K and she is meeting other children so I guess for now it is okay. I hope that once we have a meeting we will find out more about how things will work for her.

She is early entranced but she is going to need more especially in language arts. I have not heard any sort of plan for that other than that for reading groups she would go with the GT coordinator. It is early in the year and I do not know what to expect or how much I should ask for at this point.

I hope he has a really good day!

Sounds like she has a good teacher!

Mom2twoboys - So glad things are going well and that the teacher was listening and has those books in the classroom now. That is always a great sign!

JJsMom - hope DS has a great day of first today. Let us know how it goes!

skyward - sounds like things are going well for DD. Glad they are differentiating some in the classroom and that DD is happy and enjoying things. It's hard to know when to ask and how much to ask for. Sounds like they are starting slow, maybe because she is early entrance. Sometimes schools think that will be enough...and sometimes it is, but more often than not it isn't. My DS's school wanted to wait a month for him to get the routine of first down before differentiating. That would have been awful. Apparently they just started on Friday and his day was much better. Good luck this school year with DD

Good to hear skyward!

I don't have much time today (getting ready for month end close - yee haw), but DS5.5 had a GREAT day yesterday... the ONLY problem was the fact that when he got home, he thought I wasn't at the bus stop b/c he didn't see my car. I generally get there straight from work, but got home a little early and decided to walk to the stop. So he was worried that he'd have to have the bus driver call me or go back to school!!! Poor guy! I told him I'd never NOT drive to the bus stop again! LOL

He was very excited about his math workbook & he had math/science lab today, and they actually went out and did a real experiment (on evaporation). So the first day of 1st is 2 thumbs up for us. Let's just hope day 35 is the same!

Yay! That is a good sign. An experiment on his first day of first grade? That is awesome.

Hi Shelly! Great to have your experience. I've heard the 'hyperfocus' referring to TV and computer games - and I can see how that is part of ADHD. But have you seen a bunch of kids who get engrossed in 'creative' or 'non electronic' endeavors as part of the 'not gifted, ADHD' crowd? Examples of things that others have called 'signs of ADHD/hyperfocus' are:

spending a long time creating a new animal design with those little beads that you iron into plastic blobs,

drawing graph paper when he needed it for an experiment back in his dysgraphia days

Using Microsoft paint, and going pixel by pixel at age 3 to block up the wholes so that paintcan tool wouldn't spill over.

These are things he would do over and over, just once in a while, I would see signs of intensity/perfectionism that look like 'hyperfocus' to others.

Does that fit your experience?
Thanks,
Grinity

I would love to add to Grinity's list:

How about hours upon hours building with Legos, looking at rocks, doodling math problems, fishing, or gathering seeds.

Does that fit?
Thanks.

Nope, that is entirely different than what I was referring to. : )



No, except maybe looking at rocks being distracted when they are supposed to be doing something else, LOL

There are so many factors to look into. I hope no one was offended by what I said, it was just my experience. I realize that it is definitely misdiagnosed at times. I was just pointing out that hyperfocusing can be a symptom of ADHD.

It is also different when a child that is completely uninterested is not focusing on an activity. You have to know the whole story and situation. I know that one of the things that DS's teacher mentioned at our last meeting was that he was "distracted" and "not focused" and wasn't "paying attention" This was the first time anyone has described those behaviors and it was clearly a product of his environment. How could he be interested or focused when listening to her teach the other kids to read and how to add single digits? I would clearly be unfocused as well.

Yeah for a good day!!!

Just a quick update here. I met with the teacher and she said that she sees focusing issues and the gifted teacher told her that that's not because he's gifted but that in her research she's read that gifted kids can mimic the signs of ADD. Score 1 for the teacher for doing some research. That made me really happy.

She said that I can bring in worksheet pages and that she'll get some of the 1st grade textbooks for him to use in class. She moved him to a desk close to the wall so that not as much can distract him. She did say that he has a lot of trouble finishing his work but that yesterday when he knew I was going in for the meeting he did 3 days of work that he had to catch up on so that makes me think that he CAN focus when he wants to which seems like it'd be hard for somebody with ADD to do.

Today I sent in the worksheets and I actually got some back that he did! I was so excited that at least for now she's doing what she said. He told me that during nap time she sat with him and gave him quizzes (which he seemed to love) on his letters and numbers.

I talked to a counselor at the school board and the counselor at his school is supposed to go into his classroom and talk to the teacher about what his scores actually mean and how gifted he really is. She's also going to observe him for a few days and see what she thinks. The lady I talked to today said not to schedule a doctor appointment for him yet but to wait and see what they observe. She told me that there's so much that they can try with him before I need to bring him to a doctor.

Today I'm feeling positive about school!

Yay Jamie, so glad that the school is being so understanding and wanting to investigate more without just assuming. Sometimes schools can be quick to jump to ADHD for any child that is not focusing perfectly on their work. It's a shame. Glad your son's schools is looking into it and trying different strategies in the classroom to see if his attention and focus improves!

Yah Jamie! That is so positive!

Thanks so much for your input Shellymos. It is really hard to read symptoms in black/white and not know how they actually apply. He is a tunnel vision kid and I am not so it is hard to differentiate some times.

Yes!!!!

I'm not at all offended! It's not your fault that the athority figures in my life are taking liberties with the phrase 'hyperfocus' and expanding it to mean much more than 'lost in TV or Videogames' \

I also sort of remember one of these 2E gifted experts saying that he used 'hyperfocus' to help him get through Medical School. That really sent my 'denial alarms' off and I wanted to throw the book across the floor. I wish I could get the reference for you, but I was so fired up that it's sort of a fuzzy memory. Maybe it was Delivered from Distraction? Can anyone help me out here? So I think that perhaps it's not just a local problem.

In the long run, there may be something like PG/ADHD that is a seperate entity all on it's own. My DS13 has said that in his opinion all the Davidson boys (present company excluded) have ADHD. I think this in one of those situations where his lack of experience is leading him to an incorrect conclusion, but Gifted Intensity can sure make a kid look 'weird' to a child who has internalized 'kid standards' and 'school standards.' Frankly I'm thrilled that my DS13 has the abilty to internalize that set of values, even though I don't appreciate all of those values. But no, shellymos, I'm not offended by you. And I'm actually not offended by our dear 2E ADHD experts who are still in the dark about giftedness. Afterall, I was totally in the dark about giftedness for my first 40 years of life!

Love and More Love,
Grinity

OMG. Hours upon hours of Perler beads; hours upon hours building with Legos. Before the Lego discover at age 4, hours upon hours of doing puzzles, including doing them cardboard side up to make them more challenging. Collecting every shiny rock on the school playground and bringing them home for months. And now, license plates. First, mapping them. Then, writing them all down over and over during the summer (always starting fresh once all 50 states had been found). Looking them all up on Web sites. Now, making me take photos of the unusual license plates we find. Demanding that we drive through all the levels of parking garages just to look at the license plates. Asking to eat cheese, cheese and more cheese, breakfast, lunch and dinner.

"Hyperfocus" completely and utterly describes DS7. I've always called him "singularly focused." And really, none of my friends have a kid like this. It's so nice to hear someone else describe what I've been living with for 7 1/2 years!

How do you all handle it?

Interesting thought. I have a family member that is highly gifted....not sure what IQ is exactly. Anyhow, he has ADHD as well. I have often wondered where one ended and one started...sometimes it is hard to say which is a trait of which. Instead of doing homework assignments in college, he re-wrote the syllabus because there were mistakes. He always did things like this. He failed most of his classes and dropped out. He wasn't diagnosed or treated with ADHD until adulthood, he saw a commercial and realized that everything they described applied to him and went to see his doctor. Unfortunately now he suffers from depression as well because he wasn't treated for so long and hasn't been able to hold down a job, etc. It's a long story. But anyhow, he clearly has ADHD...but he is clearly gifted as well. He is able to spend long hours on projects...but gets distracted with elements and doesn't finish things often. He will go off on tangents constantly (in work, in conversation, in everything). Not sure how I got into this heartwarming story : ) I guess it just made me think about it. But while he does clearly have elements of hyperfocusing, because he is gifted I was never sure exactly whether it was a part of ADHD or giftedness.

This made me smile

We are doing the license plates too only not the state names but rather the numbers. My DS7 has papers everywhere with these codes on them from license plates. "Drive faster mom to catch up to that car" is what I hear a lot. He then looks for random patterns, number patterns, etc. He told me which number was the most common. I think it was 1 and 5. Too funny. So if you see me coming up behind you and squinting at your car, now you know what I am doing.

License plates popular here too! DS5 had a stretch this summer where we had to stop in front of every parked car when we were walking anywhere so he could make up funny words for the 3 letters in the license plates.

The license plate thing is pretty funny. DS5 memorizes license plates often...but for a while he would only pay attention to the first 3 letters. So he would say things like "hey mom...they have the same license plate as we do" He found a few cars with the same first 3 letters. Now do I know our license plates? No. But he knows them on both of our cars, as well as some of our friends cars. Whatever floats your boat.

So funny! Mine are so obsessed that we saw a plate we couldn't recognize while in NJ. DH asked the family where their license plate was from. Family looked at him quizzically -- they spoke little English and had no idea what license plate meant. Turned out they were from Mexico City! We're the ones who are driving too close trying to read the words hidden under the frames. ;-)

Well we've made some progress. DS6 was advanced to the 1/2 classroom for math. He's still a bit below what he can do but I think they'll catch up and he needs to practice his writing, which is horrible, so I'm happy with the arrangement. I asked about reading, the area where he's far ahead, and she said that won't change for a few more weeks yet.

Yippee! for Math
Boo! for Reading
Yippee! for 'the teacher is still talking to you!'

I hope your few weeks pass quickly and happily,
Grinity

First of all - Don't call it hyperfocus! Call it Intensity! Persistence, curiosity, or OverExcitability!

Verbally praise any signs of flexability. Any at all! Then get out the video camera, because it's great to look back on those days when the fire of learning is burning to bright.

Smiles,
Grinity

skyward, JJsMom, Jamie, Kareninminn - sounds like things are going well - that's great!

My DS has been sick all week, so no school for him. It's probably a good thing, gives him a break from school, and hopefully a permanent break from the behavior issues - lol! We'll see what next week brings.....

I sure hope that my DS5's school sees the correlation between 4 days that they have started to give DS more appropriate work and 4 days that DS5 has had great behavior.

glad to see that things are going well for DS Kareninminn, and glad they are still talking about changes for reading.

I hope so too! If they don't notice, be sure to point it out!

m2gts - I hope your DS feels better soon. But I bet he likes the break.

"Gifted children may exhibit the following behaviors:"

"May show unusually long attention spans and prefer to work on single topics for extended periods of time."~The Misdiagnosed Child Drs. Eide pg. 434

So maybe we aren't all crazy????

Kareninminn: glad to hear you've made progress and fingers crossed you'll get the reading changes soon.

m2gts: hope your little one gets better soon and it has a good effect on EVERYTHING!

And now, my good news ... so glad so many of us are seeing strides in our schools: Principal pulled me aside today to tell me that DS will be moving classrooms to read with another teacher and a group of 3 other children, one of whom is reading even farther ahead than he is. Apparently, most of the K teachers (there are 5 of them) fought to keep their accelerated learners in their own classrooms, but school leadership told them that 1 does not make a reading group ;-) . I'm doing a big-time happy dance here in MD!

Funny, this is the same principal who told me last June that kids his age who read far ahead don't understand what they are reading. Guess my little guy and a few others showed her!

Thanks for sharing the great news and yay for the school leadership!

mom2twoboys - GREAT NEWS!!!

Oh - and week one of 1st grade has DS saying he loves his new teachers (whew) BUT still wants challenging math work. Ha! I'll go with the flow for the moment and not bombard his new teachers (2 of them/job share) just yet.

And his behavior = A+ (or 3+ b/c they grade on a numbers scale, 1 = needs improvement, 2 = "average", 3 = excels). yay!

I hope so too!!!

That's such good news!!! So when will he move?

DS has started coming home with his Kindergarten worksheets and one or two first grade worksheets and first grade homework. He's still in the Kindergarten classroom but the whole week he's come home with a smiley face. Never before has that happened! Maybe they'll see that if he's stimulated it'll be easier.

I hope so Jamie!

That's great, Jamie! It looks like they're willing to try it.

mom2twoboys - looks like she learned a few things, how awesome for your DS!

So today he came back with the worst possible conduct grade after 4 really good days. After looking through his school work for today I noticed that he didn't get to do any 1st grade work today. It was all tracing letters and counting to 5. I don't know if that has ANYTHING to do with his bad day (of course we all have them) but it makes me wonder.

Though I am homeschooling, I just have to put in my two cents that I feel your woes just thinking about it! I'm happy I don't have to worry about the "what to do when Kindergarten comes?" DD is getting close to mid-way through Kindergarten right now and is about a month shy of 3.5. Her bday is in May so she would have to wait until about 5 yr 4 month to start!! So, I feel your woes folks!

I wish everyone good luck during the dc's K year!!!!!!!

Well, I asked Wolf if he would be happier if he had harder work and he ASKED for harder work. I knew some of what he was doing was easy for him, but I was following the curriculum track and using the easy stuff for him to practice writing. So today I tested through about 12 weeks of spelling words and he got more than 2/3 of them right. I'm just taking the ones he missed and making those into lists for a couple of weeks. I'm going to skip even more repetitive phonics pages and only give him a couple practice questions for each math concept. Also his teacher has added Logic (grade 2/3) to supplement the math.

I just never thought a 5 year old would ASK for harder work!!!

mom2twoboys and JJsMom - sounds like things are going really great!

JamieB - it would definitely make me wonder as well if there was a correlation between bad behavior and lack of challenge. Definitely BTDT.

Wyldkat - Sounds like your DS likes challenges - that's great!

Well, we've all made it through September. Here's to hoping that things go well for everyone in October!

(By the way, thanks for the good thoughts for my son - he's finally feeling better.)

Jamie B: It would make me wonder, too, ... the correlation between behavior and him being challenged. Does he have any "free" time in school, such as a center where the kids get to choose what to do? Maybe, if there is such a thing, you could leave something challenging for him in his backpack and then he'd have something to look forward to, even on the days his teacher isn't giving him the work he needs. Of course, ideally, teacher would, but ... sigh ... we all know THAT doesn't happen all the time.

Wolf: That's great that he knows himself enough to ask for harder work. That'll definitely serve him well!

As for my guy, he's supposed to move to his reading group starting Monday. It'll still be with one of the K teachers, but they are supposed to be meeting the kids in the group at their level. Fingers crossed it goes well. Unfortunately, our school won't even consider starting math acceleration till the second half of the school year. So, I'm just giving him the correct math work at home.

Way to NOT be a victim! Go Mom22b!

Seems like stuff like this is too obvious to point out, but, I would point it out anyway - not defensively, but as a pointed question. Good luck!
Grinity

My son's gifted teacher has been writing me about how he gets "tired of sitting" and can't focus during his 90 minute enrichment each week. This is what they did in his last class. Now while it might not look big my child has never, ever liked to color and it's like a chore for him. This is the kind of thing they do every week and I can see why he doesn't want to sit there and color a huge sheet of paper. Last year the teacher he had did logic puzzles and games with them and had no problems.

This is from Thursday:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v503/jba8280/Picture.jpg

Did the teacher write the words and he had to copy them? How odd. I think the appropriate response to the gifted teacher is something like, "I know it seems odd since most kids his age love to color, but DS really responds better to work that doesn't involve crayons. Maybe his gifted teacher from last year has some suggestions of what she did with him last year as those seemed to alleviate any behavior issues you're experiencing?"

It's always amazing to me how little teachers communicate year to year as kids move from one person to the next.

Yes, the teacher wrote them and he traced them. He has gifted again on Thursday so I guess I'll write her a note. From what I've seen I think she does the same enrichment class for all of the gifted kids that she services in a week so I doubt that she'd change it just for him.

His teacher was just a fill in last year because the real teacher was out sick. I think that she works in another district.

I just started back to work outside the home, so I haven't had much time to visit here. I hope everything is going well for everyone.

I have some pretty decent news. DH and I went to our very 1st parent-teacher conference tonight. I'll give a few highlights.

1. The DT (Dear Teacher, because I really like her) said that she would notify the librarian of DS5's reading level (he's been bringing home some super easy books) and she will also pick out some of her own chapter books to send home. Turns out she used to teach 4th grade, so I think she'll send some pretty good books.

2. The DT said there is a girl in the class who seems to be an intellectual peer to our DS. I happened to be volunteering once and heard her read, and she's definitely a very advanced reader. The gifted coordinator (GC) from the 3-5 school is going to come to our k-2 a couple times a week to work with them.

3. Since the GC won't be able to be there every day, we mentioned the EPGY open enrollment to her. She thought it sounded great, and is going to check into logistics. If it works out, DS5 would be able to do online EPGY while the class is learning basic math/reading.

I know I'm forgetting some things, but those are the highlights. I'm happy. Did I mention I really like DT?

That sounds really good! So the GC is going to work with them in reading?

What is EPGY?

From what I remember in my sleepy state, I think the GC will work with the DS5 and the other student mostly in math. DT said that she thought it was pretty easy to do some differentiation in reading, because she said she's able to explain certain things that go over the other kids' heads but that the 2 advanced readers would get. But she also said that DS5 could use the EPGY reading program if they were doing really basic reading lessons in class.

EPGY is Stanford's online learning programs (Educational Program for Gifted Youth). I'm just so happy that DT thought it sounded like a good idea!

Yay! That's fantastic!

st pauli girl - that is excellent news! And that is soooo good that your son may have an intellectual peer. Wow!

Thanks for the good news update SPG! We had DD5's teacher conference yesterday and it went well. She's doing subject acceleration (math & reading) and the K/1st teachers were both there. We seem to be on the same page regarding goals and agree the current set-up is working well to meet the academic/social/emotional needs. They also emphasized ongoing communication which is a big plus in my book. Whew, what a relief!

That's great news! Does she move to the 1st grade classroom for reading and math?

SPG - that is fantastic! Congrats on having such an amazing and accommodating teacher!

SPG: that's great news! I'm so happy for you.

The roller coaster continues. So, after hearing from the principal and DS's teacher that he was moving to a newly formed reading group, DS told me that he'd only met the teacher once and that he'd only be going to her twice a week.

Seems odd, right? This is his reading group, but while all the other kids have a reading block daily, he gets reading only 2x per week. So, stop by and introduce myself to his new reading teacher. Get into a conversation with her and find out that they assessed him at a Level 12, which is essentially somewhere in 1st grade reading. However, I KNOW all the books he read this summer and having run some of the books by DS7's first grade teacher, I also know the books are all 2nd grade level.

So, now what? I'm thinking that I should ask for a meeting with the school's reading specialist to request that she redo his assessment (his K teacher had said that either she or the reading specialist would do it and I don't know who ran the first assessment). DS told his new reading teacher that he was reading Flat Stanley, but it didn't seem to spark at all with her that his reading level placement doesn't come close to matching that series of books (and he's on his 3rd one in the series).

Have any of you run across a potential underassessment like this? I'm flabbergasted.

I don't know about the assessment. So what's he doing while the other kids are doing reading? I wonder if they have him in a reading group below his level because that's where the other kids in the group are.

They won't even assess my son so I haven't run into this before but I'd go to school and talk to somebody. Maybe you can ask the reading coordinator how they assessed him to get the conversation started.

mom2twoboys,

We had the same thing happen to my daughter. She was easily reading 2nd grade books in Kindergarten, but at the end of the year she was assessed at a level C, which is the end of pre-primer rankings. Even her teacher said she was surprised that it was that low, which you think would have clued her in to maybe re-doing the assessment. But no. During the summer she started reading the American Girl books (grade level 3-4) and at the beginning of 1st grade -- a mere 3 months later -- she was assessed at a Level P, which is the beginning of 4th grade. So, clearly, the first assessment wasn't accurate.

I think what happened -- although I can't be sure -- is that the assessments are somewhat subjective. Some teachers will count "Don't" wrong when it says "Do not" while other teachers will not count that wrong, for example. Also, some teachers will prompt a child to look again if they have misread a word that the teacher suspects they know, but other teachers won't. So, there can be some variability there even though the teachers are trying, I'm sure, to keep it accurate. Also, sometimes, kids just have an off day.

The nice thing about reading is that, while it's ideal to have your child reading something at their level at school, it is thankfully something that can easily be made up for a home. Ideally, though, they should be reading something at their instructional level while they're at school, since we send them there to learn! So, I would schedule a meeting with the reading specialist to talk. Maybe you could bring in some books that he is reading, including Flat Stanley, but some other ones as well. And if you want to meet with her fully-armed, maybe look up each book's reading level on the Scholastic Teacher Book Wizard website.

Good luck getting your son what he needs.

[quote=Jamie B]I don't know about the assessment. So what's he doing while the other kids are doing reading? I wonder if they have him in a reading group below his level because that's where the other kids in the group are.

Jamie: Not sure about every day, but earlier this week, I asked if he read with his teacher since he didn't go to the other classroom. He said yes, with his teacher and the classroom. Asked if it was an interesting book and he laughed and said it only had 2 words on each page! He actually thought it was highly amusing. Tonight at bedtime, he said the book he read with his new reading group this week was too easy. At least he's jolly when he shares this info. It's all like a big joke to him, but he did say he'd rather read harder books.

Yes, she goes to the 1st grade classroom in the a.m. for reading and math. In the afternoon she joins the K class for lunch, recess and specials.

It's hard to say about the assessments, not really sure exactly how they work. It makes sense if that is where they assessed him at that he is only doing it a couple times a week. Unfortunately if they are above level some, kids just get it sporadically, or sometimes not at all and are left to just read by themselves in the classroom, or work in groups of 1. It is also interesting when the school says that kids will be doing certain things and the kids come home and tell a different story. My DS5 came home the other day and told me he was all done with reading. I asked what he was talking about. He said that he got everything right and was at the highest level so he doesn't need to go to reading (I've got that one written down to ask about at our conference coming up). Not sure how much is their misinterpretation or actual facts. I think sometimes it is a mixture of both. My DS is the same as yours when it comes to talking about how easy things are. Most of the time he says it in an "I can't believe it" kind of way. At times he is frustrated, but pretty easy going kid in general. I was trying to get him to branch out from the magic treehouse books since that seems to be all he gets from the library and the classroom to read. I asked if there were other books there. He said "well there are some books about clouds" I told him that sounded kind of neat and he said "but they are for the other kids because there are only 2-3 words on every page....like 'one cloud, two clouds, three clouds.' " That's pretty crazy, but he thought it was a little humorous.

Hi I hope it's not too late to join in here

I *think* I read through most of this post and there were several times where I wanted to quote someone and say 'That's exactly like my son!'

We're not really sure what to do at this point. My DS5 was tested by the school district (not his current one) at age 3 for adhd, eye contact, behavior issues. The ultimate outcome was that he is very very bright possibly gifted (showed as gifted on the DAS-II test but we are keeping in mind he was only 3) and 3, lol. Most of the behavior issues have improved with age - I think it was just really hard to place the behavior with the intelligence as they just don't go together well.

He is in 1/2 day K and we love his teacher, but he is definitely not learning in class. She has him doing some 1st grade work when his group is in phonics since he is already reading, but even that is too easy and it's only in reading that he gets anything 'harder'. It's very hard to see his work come home and they are learning the numbers 0-5 - she knows he can 'do math' but is limited on what she can do.
My biggest issue - actually only issue, since he is learning to adjust to school and all - is homework. He still HAS to do the K homework, we also send in any completed 1st grade reading/math stuff we do as well but I hate that I have to make him sit and color --- he HATES to color.

I have a message in with the principal hoping we can come up with a game plan for next year at least that doesn't leave him bored and being a troublemaker. I won't feel ok with making him do extra work at home next year when he'll be in school all day already. They don't offer GATE until 3rd grade and even then I think it's all after school stuff anyways so wouldn't help during the school day at all. I'm thinking of requesting they test him now and if they can't/won't we'll do it on our own instead.

I'm super jealous of some of you since you have schools that seem to deal with advanced kids quite nicely. I will probably be taking some suggestions in to his teacher on Wed when I help in class

Have you talked to the teacher about giving him more advanced work or did she do it on her own?

I'm having the same issues as you where my son is bored but right now they won't do anything for him because of his behavior. They said they were going to give him some 1st grade work in class but what it's turned into is 1st grade (and Kindergarten) work at home so some nights we're doing over an hour of homework.

My son does things to make his homework more fun. Instead of counting normally he'll count by 2s or 5s or 10s. When he has to write his name he'll write it and make patterns out of the letters. I guess that's hard to know what I'm talking about without seeing it I do supplement some at home but with all of the homework that he's been having lately I hate giving him more stuff to do.

You should talk to the principal or teacher and see what they think about moving him to a higher grade at least for some of his subjects.

You may want to consider doing it for him. I do this for my kids when the work becomes pointless. I see no point in making my kids miserable if their teacher hasn't thought something through properly.

I did some addition problems for my 7-year-old just last night. He was given something like 20 too-easy math problems to do and wasn't offered time to do them during after-school care. He also had a spelling test today and I felt that requiring him to do extra math at home after dinner and spelling wasn't reasonable. So I had him do a couple problems and said "Do this one. If you get it right, I'll do the rest." He did it, I did the rest, and everyone was happy.

NB I can imitate his handwriting.



Val

I sent an email to the principal on Friday - still waiting on a response from him on that

His teacher knew he was reading as she is the one who assessed him in July - while they don't normally assess reading he was reading everything on the walls to her so she went and grabbed some books for him to read. She said she made lots of notes all over his assessment and was really glad she got him in her class. She started having him do reading comprehension worksheets on her own (1st grade ones) but we still haven't gotten anywhere on math stuff. She does keep all his higher grade stuff though so it may be that he is doing them and I'm not seeing them, but from my volunteering in class I haven't seen him do anything higher but the reading stuff.

She also (finally) got him tested so he can check out books and take Acclerated Reader quizzes so that maybe he'll continue to *want* to work on his reading. He tested at 2.3 there so we'll see how that goes. He's only taken one quiz so far but should take 2 more on Friday I think.

They don't do GATE until 3rd grade so I worry that my options are very limited but something needs to be different at least for next year (though I'd love at least 1st grade work to come home for homework). On a 'whim' I had him take the placement tests for k12 (we have cava.k12 here) and it placed him in 2nd grade for both reading and math. Of course I had to say he was 6 just to get the option to take the reading one. On a side note it put my 4 yr old in 1st grade (had to say she was 5 to take the math one even, lol)

I do help him a bit - mostly though I can't color like him or write like him (that's the one part he NEEDS K for, lol). I coax him in by just telling him to just color this part or frequently we'll just write a sentence instead of drawing/coloring. He even did that in class the other day - he refused to 'pretend he was a fish' and draw something he would do. So he wrote instead 'I wood not be a fish'

Haha...the fish story is cute My DS really needs to work on his handwriting too...and his shoe tying skills!

Do you see the principal when you go volunteer? Maybe you can stop in his office and talk to him/her?

Is GATE enrichment? DS gets 90 minutes of enrichment a week but honestly I don't know that it's helping. They mostly color and cut things out (which he hates). I think they also read books.

GATE is (I think) Gifted and Talented Education. I know at our school they offer after school programs like Art, Music, fun science stuff but what I don't know is whether they offer anything at all during school hours. Either way it doesn't start until 3rd grade

I volunteer tomorrow morning (only day my dd4 goes to school) and I have an hourish after that until K gets out so I may try to talk to him then. I will probably go home and call though so that I can double check my email first, lol.

Everyone's been quiet around here recently. Hope all your kids are doing well. Anyone have any updates to share?

My little baby step with DS5 is that I finally tracked down the reading specialist yesterday, who has agreed to do her own assessment of him. We had a really good chat about both his reading and writing that he does at home. And she was surprised to hear that he's only getting his pullout two days per week instead of every day, so she's going to investigate and get back to me.

Just been contemplating the meaning of life. Actually I have been quite busy with work, kids, and now jury duty. Yay. I have a conference for DS this afternoon that I am a little anxious about. He had been doing better overall with behavior but has had a rough week with little annoying behaviors and was the worst yesterday. His teacher said we will talk about it more at the conference...it is all quite annoying to me because it is only a 20 minute conference and I don't want to spend it talking about how he is immature in the classroom. I know he is a year younger than the other kids, I know that he does goofy things to keep himself ammused. Nothing awful but he just does dumb things (talks while the teacher talks, swings around on things, runs and slides in the hall)I would rather spend most of the conference finding out if they have actually been doing the things academically that they said they would do as it appears from what DS says that they have not been. Also I have generally seen a pattern between the work they give him and his behavior. We will see. hopefully it will be a positive meeting. I got to go to a birthday party with DS and some kids from his class the other day. He behaved fine there, but he didn't interact much with the other kids at all. They talked to him from time to time, and it seems like they like him but he is not all that interested. He did strike up conversation with adults a couple times, and a few times with a kid. He tends to act more goofy with people when he is not sure how to communicate verbally. When I ask him why he didn't talk much with the kids he said "I don't know what to say to them." He is not shy at all though. He has never been shy about anything. I think he just can't relate with the things that interest them. He does like being with the other kids though.

That's good progress mom2twoboys!

Good luck shelly...I wouldn't want to talk about his behavior the whole conference either. Do you think he needs to move up another grade? Can't they see that when he's bored he acts up?

I posted in the Advocacy section and that's kind of my update. I'm mostly frustrated.

Hmmm....well thankfully she didn't focus on the behavior too much, other than that he is immature..but also noted he is a year younger. Neither of us are sure why he does the things he does. But she seems good in that she sets limits and doesn't seem to give in. She says that she feels bad about holding him accountable because it may be harder for him, but she holds the other kids accountable. I totally agree that he should be held accountable and not be allowed to run down the hall or answer "peanut butter and jelly sandwich" when she calls on him class. That is clearly not okay.

About the academics, they are trying and have made some good changes to his plan. But there still needs more work done and I am waiting from the principal to get back with me on some questions I have for her. I can't really complain at this point....although by Christmas I may be able to. We will see : )

It sounds like his teacher is really trying. That's great!

Wolf is signed up to do a 1000 word novel in the young writer's program for National Novel Writing Month www.nanowrimo.org . He's decided it's going to be able the video games Zelda, one of his favorite topics even though he doesn't play. We're getting to skip phonics (that he would have finished by Christmas break anyway) to do it. We're also just about to pretest another 10 weeks of spelling words so we can just do the ones he doesn't know.

He's getting along great with the other kids in the program, mostly hanging out with two 11 year olds since they are the ones that show up to the field trips, but the dynamic is great and the articulation and thought levels are similar so it works. Wolf is 5 if I've forgotten to mention that recently. I keep forgetting it myself!

shellymos - your story is so similar to my ds's at this point. He was very upset yesterday b/c he got his goody bag taken away (they had a birthday "party" in class). And of course, he reacted much different than the other student who got hers taken away - though thankfully it wasn't a full tantrum. For us, this is actually a good thing - that he's definitely being treated the same, which will help teach him more about consequences for his actions. Now I just have to work on Dad, who wants to punish him again for things he's already received punishment for... one is enough, unless it's a drastic issue.

As for us, DS got his 9 week report card last week - most of it was based on K stuff and not 1st stuff, since he was only in 1st for about a week of the first 9 week session. He got all 3s & 3+s (3+ is the highest "grade"). And got all S's on behavior, except 2. He got P's (I forget what exactly that stands for), but both were in self-control areas, which has always been hard for DS (i.e., patiently raising his hand instead of blurting out the answer).

And we're quite impressed with the things he has learned since moving up, and while there are a lot of things that are still "review" for him, the fact that there are new challenges is really working as a good balance for him. Socially, he's doing great (my biggest worry)!!!

I'm so happy to hear about the kids that have moved up and are doing so well socially! I'm sure maturity will be an issues until they actually start to mature

Jamie B: Sorry to hear things aren't going well for you guys. Hang in there and keep pushing.

Glad to hear that some of your kids are getting exactly what they need and it's all working out!

I'm afraid I'll jinx things by posting this, but we are also very lucky because things are starting to work (at least for the past week they have). The first month and a half of school has been a roller coaster in terms of DS's behavior. The teachers used this period to try to get to know him and figure out how best to work with him. The week before last DH and I met with the school team, and they provided us with our son's new schedule. He is now working one-on-one with the GT teachers for math and reading, and spends the rest of the time with the K class. Because of social issues, we won't be moving him to 1st grade at this time, but they are more than challenging him academically. This past week has been the first full week of school where he did fairly well with his behaviors. Hopefully it's because his new schedule is having a direct impact on his behaviors. I'm very hopeful. If you asked him during the first month and a half of school what his favorite parts of the day were, he would always say, "Recess, lunch, and center time." On Friday, DH asked him, and he said that math and reading were his favorite parts of the day. Yay! Keeping my fingers crossed that this continues....

I'm keeping my fingers crossed for you m2gts! I wait for the day that something other than lunch is DSs favorite part of the day

Is he working alone with the GT teacher?

m2gts - got my fingers crossed with you!!!

I'm glad to read the updates. Keep them coming, please!

In that spirit, a quick update from us: things are pretty quiet. Socially, DS5 is happy. He says recess is his favorite thing about school.

It's clear that he's not being challenged at all in math. But he's not unhappy and we have time for afterschooling because it's only half-day K, so that's what we're doing. It seems to be okay for this year.

He's my kid who didn't read early and whom I suspect may have some sort of LD. His reading is improving, though I can't tell if that's because of K or because he's just ready now. My gut feeling is that it's because he's ready, but I don't want to sell K short. We're still lookng at getting vision therapy with our developmental optometrist.

So things are okay. Not great, but okay. I think it will be a decent year for him. I think his needs are being met sufficiently. I don't think this is the best year ever though, and I don't know that it will work for him next year, especially if he has an LD that the vision therapy works well on. Much will depend upon his reading and writing and if they blossom as his math has.

I feel like we're in a holding pattern. I worry that because he's not a very demanding kid in terms of challenge, I'm not doing enough.

*sigh*

I get updates weekly on what DS5.5 is doing in 1st. And I'm still in awe. While there are many things that are new to him, like using 10s and 1s to figure out what a number is, there are so many things that he's far beyond. While his tests indicated 2nd grade, I don't want to push that far due to his age. He's already more than a whole year younger than the oldest in his class. And socially, he is NOT ready for another skip.

Thankfully GT pullout begins in January, and the GT teacher is the one that did his testing. So she is familiar with his strengths and weaknesses. But man, it really kills me to think that he needs more.

At least he's getting to be more involved with science experiments and whatnot - what he loves!

Edited to add: he knows numbers way beyond 1st grade-the 10s & 1s thing was more of the concept of figuring out which is which that is new to him. It sounded like he didn't know the difference between 19 & 91 above.

JamieB and JJsMom, thanks for keeping your fingers crossed. Unfortunately, you can uncross them. Today was not so good. :-( We'll see what tomorrow brings....

And yes, he works one-on-one with the GT teacher.

Sorry, m2gts. Want to talk about it?

hey everyone
just catching up on this thread.
i have a few dilemmas, though overall my HG+ DD5 is loving being in school- its a large school and she feels very big going to the cafeteria, etc. But there is no GT anythign until third grade and differentiation consists of getting an extra low-level ditto in her homework packet..

Dilemma 1 is that the other day they sent an email list home for all the other parents in the class. My daughter heard us talking about it and was bugging us to start writing emails to her classmates. So the other night i let her do it- she sent a message, independently, a few sentences, to one of her friends. She has no problem doing this kind of stuff. But we got no response from the girl, and when i casually mentioned to her teacher that she'd started emailing her classmates, she got strangely quiet and i sensed disapporoval as other kids would not be up to that... I want to be a good friend to others however, its such a shame that things she does well will make others feel bad..Another example of this is that there is a "fun pack" going around the class that all the kids have to add something to a little journal about autumn. So you see all the wriitngs of the other kids and your child adds a picture, word, etc. So when we got it, i noticed right away that we got it LAST.. coincidence?? or they don't want her work seen by the rest of the parents?? i hate feeling this way.

Dilemma 2- She started bringing home the same Fancy Nancy picture book every week from library. I asked her why and she said the librarian won't show her where the Junie B and Katie Kazoo books are. Whats sad is that my DD doesn't GET yet that she won't show her probably for a year or two. Every week she thinks she'll get her chance and is disappointed. I asked some of my friends if they think i should get involved in this and no one seems to really be sympathetic ("if i should have your problems"! is the feeling i get).. So not sure if any teacher will feel for her either.

Oh NO!!!! Keep us updated!

m2gts: Sorry to hear about the bad day. Am hoping it gets better for you.

Renie:

Glad to hear DD likes school. How sad that her teacher isn't encouraging her more. Just this morning I encountered a similar scenario with DS5 about books at the school's library. He, apparently, has been wanting to bring home a dinosaur book but the librarian hasn't put any out on the table from which kindergartners are allowed to choose. I told him to ask her directly if he could pick out a dinosaur book. If that doesn't work, I'm going to go talk with her. Thankfully, I've been in the school so much for the past couple of years that I know her and I doubt it will be a problem. Maybe you can talk directly to the librarian and explain that your daughter really loves Junie B and Katie Kazoo and could she be pointed to those areas of the library?

In terms of e-mailing, I'd probably e-mail/call the friend's parents and explain that your daughter's really excited to write letters via e-mail to her friend. I bet at least some parents would be willing to sit with their kids and type responses back that the kids dictate.

renie1 - I would definitely contact the teacher or librarian about the books. DS was bringing home "easy" books as well. He still is, but they are at least up a few levels than where they were. At least they have more than 2 words on a page now.

As for the other, just keep a tab on things like this for the moment. Sometimes, because we are overaware of the things that go on our with our DC compared to the other kids in class, we often get more frustrated and see things that really weren't meant to be taken as such (i.e., maybe your DD didn't volunteer to take the work home til last? last name comes first or last?, etc). But if it continues to happen, then definitely mention it. Kids don't normally like to be last - they feel left out, so hopefully it was not the intention this time!

I think you should talk to the librarian for starters. Give her examples of your daughters reading level. Ask if she may check out different books? Tell her how it would effect your daughter in a positive way.

I don't think your daughter should hide her abilities.

I would have a talk with the teacher. What she can do to challenge your child? If that doesn't work talk to the principal.

How do you know she is HG? Did you have some testing? If so show results to the principal.

I would look around to see if there are other school options or homeschooling even if you are not ready to make a move yet. This gives you time to learn.

hi on the go mom and (wow a lot of moms responded already, cool!)

i found out about her giftedness officially this past spring when i brought her to a psychologist who was testing my son who has a disability . I mentioned her intense behavior, etc and he suggested testing. I almost fainted when i saw the results- WPPSI 147 FSIQ.. so confirmed what i had suspected, but to a degree i did not realize. The pysch also said that he was amazed with her because she answered so quickly it was like she did not have to even have to think. This is something i've noticed. Its like all at her fingertips.

I am definitely now going to speak to the teacher/librarian. It is just such a silly, easy, effortless way to differentiate for her- point her in the direction of junie B for goodness sakes!! Its not like its Shakespeare (not that they shouldn't show her that if she's interested, ha).

Renie we have the same problem with the library. I just make sure to take DS to the public library a few times a week so he can get books that are more on his level.

A lot of times it's so hard to know if the teachers are doing things because we have gifted kids or if we're just seeing it that way. I hate it but I take so much as a slight towards DS.

Given our library chat this morning, thought you guys might appreciate this conversation I had today:

DS5 left library book at home. Brought it into school right to the library so as not to disturb his classroom. Part-time librarian who I don't know is there. I explain to her that DS's K class is coming in later and that he's been really wanting dinosaur books, but none have been available on the K table; can they help guide him? She says: Oh, they really like to look at the pictures. I say, actually, he reads. For instance, he read that book I just handed to you. Her eyes get really big as she flips through the pages and then says, "He read this? He must be genius." (It was a Nature's Children book on pandas). I said, "No, he just likes to read."

She wrote his name down and promised to guide him today. ;-)

Awesome! ha.

LOL...at least now she's going to help him!!!

We have conferences today. I have a lot to talk about with the teacher.

In case you guys didn't see my other post I'll give you a short summary. DSs behavior reports from class seemed to be good for the last two weeks or so. He was only getting in trouble for blurting things out (and once saying a bad word...I have NO idea what that was about!) and talking during nap. Before he even started the school I made sure to talk to the principal about nap. It's always been a problem. He won't sleep and he gets bored and likes to wake his friends up. She promised me that they'd find something else for him to do during naptime.

A counselor went in to observe him because of the teacher suggesting that he might have ADD and she said that she saw no issues at all. She said that the teacher even told her that she's more concerned about him not watching where he's walking and getting hurt than she is about his behavior in class.

Last week I called the school and went by to try to talk to the principal about moving him up to first grade. I tried doing this Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday. She was never in. They wouldn't even take a message the last time I called. They said that she was out sick and whatever I needed I could talk to the teacher about. That day I went in to pick DS up from school early and she was there in the office looking quite healthy. Then on Friday (the next day) DS comes home with a write up for bad naptime behavior, a really bad conduct grade and a behavior plan where he gets a certain face for every activity that they do. The last time I went in to talk to the teacher she said that she doesn't believe in behavior plans and doesn't think they work. That along with this seeming to come out of the blue really concerns me. I want to talk to the counselor about it that went in to observe him but she's out sick.

Looking at the behavior chart you can clearly see that he gets in trouble during math, storytime and nap. That to me suggests even more than he's getting in trouble when he's bored.

I'm so upset about all of this that I'm not even sure what to ask the teacher. I know that now that he's on a behavior plan my requests to move him to first grade will certainly be met with a "NO". I wish I'd have gotten to talk to the principal before the teacher implemented this. DS said he has no idea why he's on a behavior plan or what it even is.

Sorry this turned into a novel!

Here's a link to his behavior plan:
http://imgur.com/e3fSb.jpg

Jamie B: Lots of hugs to you.

Okay, in terms of conference with the teacher today:

1. Tell her that you, too, are concerned about DS's behavior along with an I'm sure you've noticed this, too, but it seems he's having a really hard time during math, storytime and nap.

2. Ask for a trial run of giving him higher math independently during the math unit to see if that helps his behavior. Explain your theory that knowing your son, you believe he's acting out because he needs more of a challenge (I'd avoid the word "bored" b/c it sounds like she's boring.) Is there some of his math work outside of the classroom you can bring in to show what he's doing to help make your point? (If this works for a couple of weeks then it may be easier to make your case about first grade.)

3. Remind the teacher that the issue about naptime was known before he started school and the principal had assured you that he would have something else to do during that time. Come up with a plan of what that "something" is going to be from now on.

4. Document, document, document. It seems that the more I show directly DS's work, the more that teachers are believing me about his abilities (even if they are still taking baby steps, in my view). Send a follow-up to the teacher after the meeting thanking her and outlining what was agreed to.

5. I don't know if there's a way to implement something like this, but DS's teacher has a Buddy Bear. If a child has an issue, but circle time or whatever they are doing isn't the right time, then they leave a note in Buddy Bear and the teacher will read the notes and talk with them at the end of the day. Notes can be drawings or anything that gets their point across so that it isn't forgotten. My son won't use the thing to tell teacher when he's bored, but maybe yours would?

Finally, naptime? My county did away with that eons ago ;-)

As far as for giving him more math I've asked for that and she said that she'd gladly send some home for homework but she doesn't give him any in class. He does get a first grade reading worksheet about twice a week and he sits in the corner and does it while she teaches the rest of the class their letters. I can bring in some of his math worksheets that we worked on today to show her what he's doing though and maybe she'll change her mind.

I have a plan for naptime and I'll talk to her about it to see what she says.

Oh I love buddy bear! That's such a great idea. I wonder if she has anything like that.

Yes, naptime. In pre-k they were napping for something like 2 hours. I think this year it's either an hour or 45 minutes.

renie1 - I hope you have luck getting library books that are at your daughter's reading level.

JamieB - how did your conference go??? I hope it went well.

Today was a bit better for DS, although he did have a problem in PE. My head is spinning with this roller coaster ride. I know that since my son is very asynchronous, some of his issues are social, and the school is working with him on that (e.g., his use of personal space, being aware of the kids around him). Some of the problems stem from his very strong-willed personality, and he at times will be very defiant, and not follow directions, or be disruptive (silly) if it is something that he doesn't want to do. It's crazy. Sometimes I don't know what to make of it. I talk to the teacher yesterday and get a laundry list of behaviors that he did, so it wasn't a good day. But yet, when I went into school today to volunteer, the teacher tells me he has really improved a lot since the first day of school, it's like he's a different kid. So my head is spinning. He did have improvements today over Monday, so I'm hoping the week is a steady improvement. It's just a bummer because last week was so great. And so it goes...

Thanks for asking...it actually went well. The teacher said that the counselor suggested the behavior plan. This is the counselor who said to me that she's suggesting putting him in first grade so maybe she wants this to show that his problems are when he's bored? I can only hope. His teacher said that his behavior is much better and gave me the list of site words that they'll be working on in a few weeks. I told her that I wasn't sure if she was aware or not but he can read any word put in front of him. I hope she didn't think I was being rude but I have to somehow let her know what all he can do.

So many of our kids seem to be like this m2gts. It's like one day I feel overjoyed and the next I'm deflated. I think that it's really good that the school is working on him with his issues so at least they are aware of it. What issues does he have with his personal space?

JamieB - you hit the nail on the head with regard to how I feel and why I always say this is such a roller coaster ride. Thank you so much saying that many of our kids are like this. It makes me feel better to know that DS is not the only one. Glad your meeting went well!

WRT personal space, sometimes when DS talks to a classmate, he gets right into their face to talk - definite invasion of personal space. Also, he has a hard time sitting still, so when sitting at the table with classmates, he is up on his knees, back and forth, leaning over (therefore infringing on a classmate's space). He definitely has a lot of energy and the arms and legs are often moving around a lot. When standing in line, he bumps into the kids around him (not intentionally), and while he says he's sorry, he still continues to do it and the teacher said that the kids don't understand, become impatient, because it's not just once or twice, it can happen every day. Yes, we are very lucky in that the school is addressing his academic needs as well as his social needs. In fact, with regard to the personal space issue, they decided to set up a desk for him at the end of one of the tables, which is where he now sits (sort of like an extension of the table). This gives him more room, plus, with the academic work he is doing, he has more books/binders than his classmates and he needs a place to store them. So it serves two purposes and so far seems to be working well.

I was wondering if he was doing the same thing as my DS. He has the hardest time keeping his hands off of the other kids. He always seems to want to touch them or bump them or something. We've been working with him at home and it seems to be helping a little.

Jamie B: Glad to hear the conference went well.

m2gts and Jamie B: Agree with you. It really does feel like this major roller coaster ride. Every time I have a good experience and feel like someone is listening and going to help, what we discuss doesn't happen. While your guys act out from boredom, mine just lets it slide off his shoulders and then tells me about it. One of my friends told my husband last week that I worry too much and should just let it go.

For instance, follow up to library yesterday: DS comes home with One Duck Stuck. I ask if the librarian showed him the dino books he wanted. He said, No, he was only allowed to pick from the table and he didn't want to/think he could ask for something else. GRRR. It should be so simple. Plus, the reading specialist who was supposed to retest him last week hasn't gotten back to me. I sent a follow-up e-mail today, so back to the waiting game.

We've got PT conference on Nov. 11 and I need to figure out how to address this all. A friend's mom who navigated this path in our school 8 years ago under a different principal is giving me advice and has told me I can use her daughter's name to make the point that the school has appropriately dealt with this before.

What's sad is I live a county that many rank as one of the tops in the country. But only if you're a round peg in a round hole. Sigh.

Did your friend's daughter skip a grade? I can't believe that after talking to them they still didn't let him pick another book from the library! They should have guided him to the dino books.

I know that personally I can't let this go. I want to give up sometimes but I can't. I know that my friends with kids that fit in well in the normal classrooms don't understand why I get so upset and worry and why I want to make my son "different". I'm so glad that I can come here

I hope that you get an email back very soon from the specialist. It seems like here, at least, nobody gets back with you...you have to go find them.

That is really unfair that they aren't letting him get books at his level

On the other hand at least they can take books home from the library there. K kids aren't allowed to bring books home at our school so we just get them from the library instead.

We use our library a lot too. I don't know what I'd do without it!

Just have to type this out before I leave work

The principal finally called me back. She said that she meets with a team and she wants to talk to them about this. She's never grade skipped a kid before but said that she's not saying that she won't do it. One of the members of her team is the counselor that's been observing him (the one that said that she thinks he needs to be moved up) so that's good, right? She told me to give her until Monday to observe and talk to her team.

So today has been an up date in the battle for a proper education What will tomorrow bring?

I observed/volunteered in class with DS5 today. It was a good day, I think. They were counting the number of kids in the class who were/weren't excited about dressing up for Halloween and recording the results of the survey. The vote was 21 to 2. They counted the two "no" votes aloud. Then DS5 raised his hand and informed the class that 21 kids voted "yes."

"How did you know that?" the teacher asked.

"Because there are 23 kids in the class, and 21 and 2 make 23."

"Okay! Well, class, let's see if DS5 is right." They then counted all 21 hash marks.

I was THRILLED that he's taking the initiative to show his true colors in a way that isn't disruptive. That's not easy under the circumstances, and it's SOOOOOO much more effective than my having to advocate from zero. So that's Good Thing #1.

Good Thing #2 is that there wasn't much work for me to do, and the reading buddies from the 2nd grade were keeping the class occupied for the last 15 minutes I was there. That gave the teacher and me time to chat casually.

I asked her how she was adjusting to having K instead of 2nd grade and we chatted about her for a bit. It was cheerful and friendly. She had nice things to say about DS5, and I had nice things to say about the class. She shifted the conversation to DS5.

I brought up his sensitivity and that I hoped he wouldn't cry when I left class today, as he did last time. She was worried I was fearing for his well-being, I think, and I replied that no, I tend not to buy into all the drama of my emotional son. I like logic.

Score!

She replied, seeming to not want to step on my toes, but appearing to worry that I didn't get him, "Well, he's quite a logical thinker, too."

Me: "Oh, well, yes, when it comes to math. He's really excited about math. He loves it! And chess. That's his big thing lately. He's getting pretty good."

The chess surprised her, but it was good to mention it, I think. It got her attention, and since she was the one pushing ME to see his talents, I felt like it was a very effective casual conversation that didn't box her into a corner unintentionally.

I don't know how this will play out over time or if we'll try to keep him in the school long term. But she seems to be on the right track, though she's not differentiating for him yet. The K teachers still seem to be evaluating though, so I'm being patient. And really, if we can make this year work for him, that'll be enough.

So, yeah, a good day...