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Posted By: doubtfulguest books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 12/20/13 02:58 PM
this is probably a tall order, i know.

DD5 has become very, very enthusiastic about Douglas Adams. it started innocently enough as a way to help her remember some factors of (you guessed it!) 42. so we read Last Chance to See together as part of homeschool (endangered animals! geography! fun!), and i've read her some excerpts of Hitchhiker's, and while she finds it hysterically funny, i can't just hand her that one - too many mature situations/jokes.

she reads at (at least?) a middle-school level, so i'm looking for books that are as absurd as Douglas Adams, but are more in line with Harry Potter, maturity-wise. (she has no issue with HP.)

any ideas?
Posted By: aquinas Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 12/20/13 03:10 PM
Flatland and Sphereland might fit the bill. Has she tried Tolkien yet? The Hobbit might be a good place to start.

ETA: Stephen Hawking has a series for children that's been reviewed well. I have my eye on these for DS in a few years:

http://www.amazon.ca/Georges-Secret-Universe-Stephen-Hawking/dp/1416985840
Posted By: amylou Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 12/20/13 03:12 PM
Have you tried the "Murderous Maths" family of books? They are non-fiction and filled with humor. Our kids (twins, now 13yo) read and reread them many, many times over the years. In addition to math, they have series on science, history, geography, etc. They are published (by Scholastic, I think) in Britain and not widely available in the U.S., but easily obtained by mail order on the web.
Flatland/Sphereland sound AWESOME - mathy AND including many of the themes that interest her, too. oh, i'm excited. thanks, aquinas!

Murderous Maths also sound fun, amylou! right up her street, i think. something tells me today is going to get... expensive. hee
Posted By: aquinas Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 12/20/13 03:50 PM
I bought the complete set of Murderous Maths, and a set each of Horrible Histories and the Geographies last year on spec for about $85 on ebay.ca. Market rates for the bundled books should be about $2 pre-shipping.
Posted By: Dude Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 12/20/13 03:56 PM
Analogy time - Douglas Adams : Science Fiction :: Terry Pratchett : Fantasy

Also, Eric Idle has a sci-fi comedy book: The Road to Mars
Posted By: ElizabethN Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 12/20/13 06:47 PM
To amplify a little on Dude's great suggestion, it sounds like your daughter and Tiffany Aching are made for one another. The first book is Wee Free Men.
Posted By: Nautigal Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 12/20/13 07:14 PM
I second (or third) Terry Pratchett.

Robert Asprin might be a good choice, either the Myth books or the Phule books, but you might want to read them first to be sure. I have a sieve for a memory, and don't tend to remember adult situations when recommending books for small children.

Has she read Lemony Snicket?

I would also highly recommend Shakespeare's Star Wars.

The Phantom Tollbooth would be good. It's full of dreadful puns.

Possibly Artemis Fowl, though they aren't as loaded with absurdity.

The Night they Stole the Alphabet is pretty silly.
Posted By: HowlerKarma Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 12/20/13 07:27 PM
Lemony Snicket and the SoUE would be perfect.

DD was very very into those books at 5-7yo.
Posted By: ElizabethN Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 12/20/13 07:38 PM
I know that DH read a bunch of the Myth books to DD around that age, so I think those are OK. The Phantom Tollbooth would be good, too.
Originally Posted by Nautigal
I have a sieve for a memory, and don't tend to remember adult situations when recommending books for small children.

ugh - me too, apparently. i totally forgot about Terry Pratchett (THANK you Dude and ElizabethN!) - i'm so glad y'all have been through this stuff just a little ahead of me. it's horrible trying to explain DD to librarians and booksellers in person - she's either right there and they look at her like she's an alien exhibit, or she's not... and they look at me like i'm insane.

HK - the Snicket is already digested by the Resident Book Eater (though will be re-read, i'm sure) hey - has anyone read the new Snicket? Who Could That Be At This Hour? - i think it's aimed slightly older but i can't imagine they'd feature "mature" content?

and Nautigal, Shakespeare's Star Wars? sweet mother of cheese, that sounds like it was written by someone who already knows DD.

you people really are the best.
Posted By: bluemagic Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 12/20/13 08:51 PM
Princess Bride by William Goldman

Not as "funny" but a good read for someone who likes HP, SF is the Chrestomancy Series by Diana Wynne Jones, the first one is titled Charmed Life.
Posted By: ultramarina Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 12/20/13 11:04 PM
Has she read Cornelia Funke? While not Douglas Adams, some of her stuff is rather funny.

Oooh, what about The Once and Future King? I reread it recently with an eye to DD9 reading it soon. Just a tiny bit of vague sex allusions, IIRC. Sad in parts, but of course so is HP.
Posted By: HowlerKarma Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 12/20/13 11:27 PM
Susan Cooper's The Dark is Rising sequence?

Madeleine L'Engle-- of course.

Tolkien.

Posted By: NotSoGifted Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 12/20/13 11:37 PM
Word of warning...Flatland is not for children. I don't think I want DD16 reading it.

A Series of Unfortunate Events is good. My middle kid liked the Cirque du Freak series, though it is a bit dark.
Posted By: aquinas Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 12/21/13 12:03 AM
Originally Posted by NotSoGifted
Word of warning...Flatland is not for children. I don't think I want DD16 reading it.
It's satirical, to be certain, with a lot of commentary about Victorian society/gender roles, inter-class strife, and questions about identity. There is violence, but it can be skipped over. As with anything, though, I think it depends on the child. I was a child who loved the book, though I read it independently when I was older than doubtfulguest's DD (~7-8). Doubtfulguest's daughter is more emotionally mature than I was at her age.

doubtfulguest, you know your DD best. My sense of your DD is that she could handle the themes given her recent interests if it's used as a book that you read together. That way you can contextualize the material and provide a historical backdrop to the satire, even skip over any material that might not go over well.
Posted By: bluemagic Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 12/21/13 01:46 AM
Originally Posted by HowlerKarma
Tolkien.

The Hobbit, and possibly some of his short stories. But I don't think LOTR is appropriate for a 5 year old, even if she is an extremely precocious reader.

Another suggestion:

"Dealing with Dragons" by Patrica Wrede.
Posted By: Enon Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 12/21/13 03:23 AM
If it is mostly the comedy that she likes, then I'd suggest Jerome Jerome's Three Men in a Boat, Lewis Caroll's Alice books, and P.G. Wodehouse's Wooster/Jeeves books. Mark Twain is also funny, particularly A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court and his lighter short stories. Actual children's books are also often humorous - Ramona, for instance. (Beverly Cleary?) Baum's Oz books have been neglected lately, too.

I'd also second the recommendation of Terry Pratchett in general; the Discworld novels set in Lancre are the best bet, but there are some mild sexual references there, too - Granny Ogg is the opposite of shy. Pratchett's The Amazing Maurice and His Educated Rodents and his Bromeliad and Johnny series are written especially for children. Seasonally apt and certain to delight young children is his 1000-word short "The Computer Who Believed In Santa".

I'm puzzled by the idea that the Hithhiker's Guide books have too many adult situations. Aside from a couple of references to the planet Eroticon VI and its most famous resident (references which would go right over a 5 year old's head) there are no adult situations - certainly far less of an adult nature than you would find in the Bible or Shakespeare, let alone such notorious volumes as Graves' The Greek Myths, Burton's Thousand and One Nights, Andrew Lang's collections of traditional fairy tales, or even Harry Potter, with Dumbledore's brother convicted of practicing inappropriate charms on a goat, its reference(s) to human-giant couples, sexy Veela (who turn into monsters when angered), gambling, drinking (butterbeer and stronger drinks), and drug use (potions, particularly felix fortis).

There are some other humorous SF books, though none as good as Douglas Adams'. Jasper Fforde is the closest I have seen, and I highly recommend his Tuesday Next series. From the cover: "Fforde's heroine, Thursday Next, lives in a world where time and reality are endlessly mutable -- someone has ensured that the Crimean War never ended for example -- a world policed by men like her disgraced father, whose name has been edited out of existence. She herself polices text -- against men like the Moriarty-like Acheron Styx, whose current scam is to hold the minor characters of Dickens' novels to ransom, entering the manuscript and abducting them for execution and extinction one by one. When that caper goes sour, Styx moves on to the nation's most beloved novel -- an oddly truncated version of Jane Eyre -- and kidnaps its heroine." These are more suited for adults due to the literary references, but kids should like them, too. There is an allusion to sex in one of the last two of the five books, but it wouldn't have had any trouble getting released as a film under the Hayes' Code.

Fforde's subversion of cliches bring to mind the website TV Tropes, which is not only great fun, but better education than any amount of reading of stuffy pseudo-intellectual literary criticism. (Though in the latter category Frederick Crewes' The Pooh Perplex deserves an honorable exception.)

Short story collections such as the "Year's Best SF" generally have some funny stories, and generally having been published in magazines, they rarely have much unsuitable. Collections prior to 1970 are almost guaranteed to be clean, and those of the 30s - 50s are especially so. Short stories suit young readers better than novels. Kids generally agree with Sam Goldwyn: "too much plot and not enough story!"

Some other SF humor authors worth mentioning: Keith Laumer's Retief stories (they start to hit their stride around Brass God, and really get going once the Five Eyed Sticky-Fingered Groakies come on the scene as villains.) Going a bit farther afield, and perhaps not up to a 5 year old's rigorous standards for humor: Alfred Bester, Jack Vance (all great, but humor is seen most in Tales of the Dying Earth's Cudgel the Clever - published in 1950, but verify suitability for yourself), Franz Kafka (well, he thought he was writing humor, anyway. Kids usually like horror, too though. ) J.L. Borges' stories are as humorous in a way as they are thought-provoking. The dialogues between Achilles, the Tortoise and the Crab in Hofsteader's Godel, Escher Bach are also amusing, though most of that book will go over young kids' heads. Rudy Rucker and Spider Robinson are often humorous, though generally not suitable for young children. Steven Brust's Jhreg series often has dry wit, but there is quite a bit of murder. Rodger Zelazny also had a dry wit, though it's hard to really classify him under humor. Early Charles Stross works such as Accelerando and Iron Sunrise have a good deal of humor, but there is one scene in the former which is definitely unsuitable, and perhaps neither would be that apt to appeal to a 5 year old.

Comics shouldn't be ignored, either - Girl Genius, Schlock Mercenary, Freefall, and xkcd are my staples among the webcomics. Heavenly Nostrils is a recent web/print comic that shouldn't be missed, especially by girls - a bright 9-year-old befriends a narcissistic unicorn. The author's previous comic Ozzy and Millie is also a gifted kids' classic. Aside from xkcd, these should be read in chronological order since they have long story arcs.
Try Kate McMullen's Myth-o-Mania series. DS7 has read and reread them. He also just loved a book about a donut, said it was very funny. Arnie the Doughnut ... will look over the others he has around and post later.
Also, the Dragon Keepers series and a recent favorite called "Fortunately the Milk." (We are blessed with a great library that seems to constantly have new children's books.) Another series that has been a favorite which is quite fanciful is the Geronimo Stilton series. Great illustrations, too.
Originally Posted by Enon
If it is mostly the comedy that she likes, then I'd suggest Jerome Jerome's Three Men in a Boat, Lewis Caroll's Alice books, and P.G. Wodehouse's Wooster/Jeeves books. Mark Twain is also funny, particularly A Connecticut Yankee in King Arthur's Court and his lighter short stories. Actual children's books are also often humorous - Ramona, for instance. (Beverly Cleary?) Baum's Oz books have been neglected lately, too.

[...]

I'm puzzled by the idea that the Hitchhiker's Guide books have too many adult situations. Aside from a couple of references to the planet Eroticon VI and its most famous resident (references which would go right over a 5 year old's head) there are no adult situations - certainly far less of an adult nature than you would find in the Bible or Shakespeare, let alone such notorious volumes as Graves' The Greek Myths, Burton's Thousand and One Nights, Andrew Lang's collections of traditional fairy tales, or even Harry Potter, with Dumbledore's brother convicted of practicing inappropriate charms on a goat, its reference(s) to human-giant couples, sexy Veela (who turn into monsters when angered), gambling, drinking (butterbeer and stronger drinks), and drug use (potions, particularly felix fortis).

wow, thanks, Enon, for all the great recommendations. you're right that it's the humour she's responding to - she loved the wordplay in the Alice books (and she loves the Oz books, too - which, i agree, are wonderful!)

i never thought of Wodehouse and A Connecticut Yankee..., but those are right up her street and they're already here in the house (bonus!) i'm sure she'll come back to Ramona at some point, but i get the sense she's loving the idea of being able to read "grown-up" books since her comprehension has been virtually on an adult level for several years and that has been a huge frustration for her.

which is why i am leery of handing over the Hitchhiker books for her to read on her own. we read her the entire HP series when she was three, and so we were able to talk about all those situations together as we met them. of course, we're still reading plenty of books together, but until quite recently, DD5 had somehow convinced herself she was too young to be reading (even though she was decoding by the time she was 2.) so now that she's basically de-programmed, i really want her to be able to feel herself flying, without having to "ask the adult" too often since that might reinforce her idea that she's not old enough. i have zero issues talking with her about anything she runs into - but i'd love for her to have a stockpile of meaty and fun literature where she doesn't need me at all, ykwim?

...because this is a kid who would NEED TO KNOW about the social ramifications of Eccentrica Gallumbits' job. it would probably be a really interesting conversation, and i'm sure we'd both get a lot out of it, but i think it can probably wait for a bit since building her independence right now is soooo key!

thank you, everyone - this is a GREAT booklist and i'll be sorting through it and stocking the shelves for sure.
Posted By: chay Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 12/30/13 05:17 PM
I remember killing myself laughing at Gordon Korman books as a kid. Starting at around 7 I read every one that I could find in the library. I'm can't remember how appropriate the content would be but might be worth looking into. I've tried to get DS7 to try one but he is resisting anything fiction or non-astrophysics at the moment...... I'm hoping George's Secret Key to the Universe will be out gateway to fiction book wink We're both about halfway through and I like it so far (he's not totally sold on it yet).

Loving the list, I've put a few on hold at the library and can't wait.
Posted By: ultramarina Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 12/30/13 05:36 PM
Quote
but i'd love for her to have a stockpile of meaty and fun literature where she doesn't need me at all, ykwim?

This seems like a tall order to me. Even your very, very bright kiddo is going to run into some situations and references she doesn't follow in adult books, right? So I think you may need to compromise on either the meatiness or the "doesn't need me at all" part.

I came in here, though, to suggest E. Nesbit, who is very, very funny indeed. Don't jump to adult books TOO too fast, or you'll be in the soup later! There are plenty of delightful kids' books left, I hope! (Perhaps not in a few years.)
hee - ultramarina - i'm so nervous that we're already in the soup! i'm so bummed out that she might just skip over tons of great kids' literature - but i'm hoping that once we get over this hump she'll circle back around to all the great stuff she missed. (er, who am i kidding? she'll probably skip it all - just like she skipped crawling and a hundred other things. sigh)

chay - i, too, loved Gordon Korman (and here i thought i was the ONLY one!) - my mum saved a complete set of the Bruno & Boots for us, but they're languishing on the shelves right now. maybe i'll just read a chapter aloud to her and see if she bites... actually, maybe i'll do that with all the great stuff i don't want her to skip!

thanks again, everyone, for helping out on this, tallest of tall orders! smile

Posted By: Sweetie Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 12/31/13 03:56 AM
But don't stop at a chapter end....stop at a spot where you really want to know what happens next...sometimes I have to go to the bathroom or get a glass of water or it is just time to go to sleep...I say goodnight...but ds knows he gets an extra half hour if he is reading, nothing else...it is either a book or lights out.

If he keeps reading our read aloud, he has to "catch me up" to the new stopping point when I read to him the next night...which is good summarizing practice. If he gets to the end before I get to him the next night, we start something else and I finish on my own.
Posted By: ultramarina Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 12/31/13 04:09 PM
Your kid is definitely in a different league than mine...BUT...I still think you might want to try to keep her in children's books for a while longer. The older British ones can be very sophisticated with language, and even despite her intelligence AND apparent old-soul stuff, there is a lot with adult books that isn't going to be right. PLus the canon of children's lit contains so much goodness--and IMO, is important to cultural literacy. There's plenty that really isn't worth her time, and there are adult books she could add in, of course. But I'd really try to not let her think that she should be leaving kid lit behind.
Posted By: ultramarina Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 12/31/13 04:11 PM
What about Anne of Green Gables? Very different from Douglas Adams!--but meaty, and there are a lot of them, and they can be funny, though a bit antiquated. The later ones will appeal to a child who is interested in adult doings, while still being appropriate (though they do deal with war and there are deaths).
Posted By: ColinsMum Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 12/31/13 04:26 PM
Originally Posted by ultramarina
Your kid is definitely in a different league than mine...BUT...I still think you might want to try to keep her in children's books for a while longer. The older British ones can be very sophisticated with language, and even despite her intelligence AND apparent old-soul stuff, there is a lot with adult books that isn't going to be right. PLus the canon of children's lit contains so much goodness--and IMO, is important to cultural literacy. There's plenty that really isn't worth her time, and there are adult books she could add in, of course. But I'd really try to not let her think that she should be leaving kid lit behind.
Totally agree with this. Fwiw mine was reading similarly at 5 and yet still at 10 reads mostly children's fiction. Exceptions I recall include Douglas Adams of course, some Agatha Christie, Asimov, Tolkien (but not LotR till ?8 - Farmer Giles of Ham was a hit at 5 though). Pratchett's Discworld wasn't a hit, to my surprise.

There is so much written for children that I just don't see why any child would need to skip it. And much adult fiction isn't going to be appreciated without much more life experience. I'd be surprised if any 5yo really enjoyed Wodehouse. I wouldn't advocate forbidding a child to read adult fiction either, but I would treat an impression that children's fiction has been outgrown as an error to be corrected. I frequently enjoy reading DS's books, after all!
that is so good to hear, ColinsMum - i really don't want DD to miss anything and i really am hoping that she'll swing back around again. she has SO much time - i'm really alarmed by her pace these days - i feel like i barely even knew her before.

with homeschool, i can (and do) assign things that are more "age-appropriate" - i'm very conscious that i've messed her up badly by reading to her at her comprehension level her entire life. her teachers were very clear with me about that last year, and i guess i'm reaping what i've sown. it's just the reading-for-pleasure side that i have to be careful - no point in getting a bunch of things she's never going to finish.

small update: we started a family book project yesterday (read/discuss/track), and DD just pulled down a bunch of old picture books so she can get off to a fast start. if handled delicately, this might be a nice way for her to get into some of the books she might otherwise miss - but i'll have to keep an eye out so it doesn't just become a numbers game for her. the book project is not supposed to be competitive, but... this is, after all, the kid who this very morning turned a simple Math Lab on Probability into a cut-throat contest amongst values in her data set. (sigh)
Posted By: ultramarina Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 01/02/14 08:49 PM
Oh, I don't think you've messed her up! Nothing wrong with going higher with guidance, as long as she hasn't developed some type of automatic resistance to anything that looks like a kids' book. Even if she is having a phase like that, though, I'd say it's important not to "give up," you know? Just as we wouldn't give up on a kid who was resisting all fiction, or resisting everything but Harry Potter over and over (BTDT), or even resisting reading at all. Strew the path, strew the path, with delicious-looking books.
oh, man Ultramarina! i sooo *wish* my parents hadn't given up with me on fiction. as an adult, i feel horribly stunted in that respect and even though i've tried to fill in some of the gaps, i still feel like i don't quite get the rhythm of a lot of literature... mercifully, life is not over yet!

and ha! thanks for reassuring me that i haven't messed up my kid - i didn't mean to sound *quite* so dire! i guess what i mean is that i can almost see a little flow chart in my head about how we got here.

originally, we had a kid who LOVED books and was decoding early, but never once picked up a book on her own and tried to read it herself. that seemed a little weird, but honestly for several years it was no big deal since she was so little. she would beg us to read to her and we did - constantly - according to interests and comprehension.

which... gave us a kid with an adult vocabulary who had no time for the school's learn-to-read books by the time she got to Pre-K. in her mind, reading was for meaning - and, not surprisingly, she found no meaning in school readers! so instead, i asked her to try chapter titles and headlines, shampoo bottles and book blurbs.

which... within months gave us a kid who was destroying chapter books.

which... has given us a kid who is finally excited about the fact that she can read the stuff we used to have to read to her - hence the need for more "meat" to feed this beast (which in no way has to be "adult" literature - just richly imagined, and fun!)

ha - now i'm super-OT on my own post. sorry, all!

back on topic - i meant to mention The Dot and the Line: A Romance in Lower Mathematics, which is a fun little book inspired by Flatland (thanks Aquinas)! we got it for DD as a stocking stuffer - and it's been a HUGE hit. highly recommend it for anyone with a mathy kid who likes puns (we heard this a lot over the holiday: "To the vector go the spoils!" /dies laughing)
Posted By: ultramarina Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 01/02/14 10:16 PM
Ah...so, is it the case that you didn't read a lot of fiction yourself as a child? Or perhaps, even now? Is what you need LOTS and LOTS of great recommendations for non-twaddle kids' books? because they most certainly are out there, in spades. We could recommend, or at best, you should cultivate a relationship with a great librarian.

Beginning readers are the worst. Some of the worst kids' books out there, really, so if that's what she thinks of, no wonder she thinks it's no good.
Posted By: ultramarina Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 01/02/14 10:17 PM
Are you on Goodreads? Tons of lists there, like Great Fantasy reads for ages 10-13, etc.
Posted By: Sweetie Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 01/02/14 10:26 PM
Doubtful guest. Try these...

The phantom tollbooth

The number devil

George's secret key to the universe (and two others by Stephen and Lucy Hawking)
Originally Posted by ultramarina
Ah...so, is it the case that you didn't read a lot of fiction yourself as a child? Or perhaps, even now? Is what you need LOTS and LOTS of great recommendations for non-twaddle kids' books? because they most certainly are out there, in spades. We could recommend, or at best, you should cultivate a relationship with a great librarian.

Beginning readers are the worst. Some of the worst kids' books out there, really, so if that's what she thinks of, no wonder she thinks it's no good.

ding, ding, ding! yep - i'm super-fussy about fiction, even now.

DD has NO such excuse, though! she's got shelves and shelves of terrific picture books and all the Blytons, Clearys, Dahls, Snickets and Rowlings, etc. it would be sooooo easy to fall into the non-fiction trap with her, too - she would listen for hours on end to us reading books about medicine or space when she was a toddler, but i refuse to let that happen to her.

i'm really hoping this is just a phase where she wants to put as much distance between herself and "new reader" as she can. i'll be vigilant, though - you're right that if i don't want to resign myself to her skipping things, then i really shouldn't! (that is such great advice, seriously!)
Posted By: ultramarina Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 01/03/14 12:17 AM
My DS5 is sort of over all his lovely picture books, though I'll find him poring through them if we've been too long between library runs. There are certainly some sophisticated picture books out there, but if that no longer appeals, I think that's okay. Do you really feel she has oodles of her own books to choose from? Even with a great in-house selection, nothing beats a shiny load of new library books with enticing covers over here. Both of my kids usually have 30+ out at a time. Mind you, in DD's case, she often does not read them all before we go back, but that's okay. It's the smorgasbord concept.

Both of my kids really like nonfiction too...but if she loved Harry POtter, etc, she doesn't sound like she is one of those who just isn't into fictional worlds. Dare I suggest that your own confessed fussiness might be subconsciously limiting what you offer her? Do you ever just turn her loose in the stacks?
Posted By: Mana Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 01/03/14 12:37 AM
doubtfulguest, I can sympathize. In the last week or so, DD has begun complaining about picture books in general but I'm not ready for her to be over picture books quite yet. We're currently working through Elsa Beskow books and she hasn't complained about those. She's still on a fairytale phase so at least for my DD, if the theme interests her and artwork is good, she's willing to read "short" picture books.

SO and I are having a HP debate right now. He who didn't want DD to read Swimmy when she was 2 (he said the book starts with a massacre and she didn't have to know about food chain just then) thinks I'm being unfair by withholding HP since DD now can clearly distinguish fiction from reality and has no problem processing fairytales which are often just as violent as HP but he's never read HP and that has been the end of our argument thus far. I told him before we can actually discuss it, he had to read the first few books cover to cover.

Right now, my policy is to find children's literature that I would enjoy reading myself. Since I didn't start reading in English until I was 14 (and didn't crack the code until I was 19 thanks to stealth dyslexia), I have never read The Wonderful Wizard of the Oz, C.S. Lewis, or Dahl. I'm on the fence about Neverland for DD so that's on my list of pre-reading list. It's been fun filling my own gaps and DD and I love getting audio recordings of these classics from the library and read along together. I think DD is getting acting tips from the professional actors. I hear her imitating their inflections and accent.

It's so hard to find the right answer for these children but I have to trust my instinct and be willing to override her father who is giving her too much credit for her emotional maturity.
Posted By: Zen Scanner Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 01/03/14 04:49 AM
Finally remembered a book we got a bit ago that really has that surrealist banter and flair of Adams: Another Whole Nother Story by Dr. Cuthbert Soup

http://www.amazon.com/Another-Whole-Nother-Story-Quality/dp/B00B2RRNVE

Posted By: bluemagic Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 01/03/14 05:42 AM
Originally Posted by doubtfulguest
i'm really hoping this is just a phase where she wants to put as much distance between herself and "new reader" as she can. i'll be vigilant, though - you're right that if i don't want to resign myself to her skipping things, then i really shouldn't! (that is such great advice, seriously!)

I don't think there is much harm in "skipping" the early readers. They really aren't great literature and are not necessary to learn to read. If she reads as well as my son at 6, it is really unnecessary. In addition the specialist that helped my DD19 (who had LD's) primarily used non fiction. She expected my daughter to always have a fiction book for fun, but for the actual instruction she found non fiction a lot less ambiguous. (My daughter main problem was language processing not decoding.)

After parenting two children, one thing I have learned a bit to do is relax and back off a bit. Forcing a child to read fiction is more apt to turn her off to it at this time.

Posted By: Dude Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 01/03/14 02:23 PM
When the talk turns to great fictional satire, one name that comes immediately to my mind is Carl Hiassen. And I would have kept this entirely to myself except for these words that I never, ever thought I'd type (for those unfamiliar, he uses... er... mature themes): Carl Hiassen has won a Newbery medal.



hmm, i'm not sure where this all took such a weird turn. i promise i'm not to force DD into anything, and i desperately hope i'm not imposing my weirdness on her - maybe i don't have enough distance to see it, but i hope i've been actively engaged in making sure DD has access and exposure to all sorts of reading material.

the OP was about finding funny, relatively dense literature for a 5 y/o who we recently discovered legitimately likes that kind of thing - it was about adding to her options, not restricting them. of course, along the way i have a few things to keep in mind - she's been through the wringer in the last 12 months and clawed her way back from a terrible depression, which was partly caused by being constantly told (by her teachers and librarians) that she couldn't/shouldn't read what interested her. those feelings are still quite fresh for her and i have to be overly careful not to compound that particular problem.

ha - Mana, that's so funny about Swimmy! (it's a favourite of mine, in spite of the massacre!)

we backed into HP accidentally - the series was sitting on a shelf in the living room, and DD asked me about it, so i explained the premise. even though we'd already read longer books like Wind in the Willows to her, if i'd thought we were anywhere close to HP stage, i'd probably have moved it somewhere else; i've done that with some other books since then. ahh, child-proofing!

so of course, DD immediately requested i read her some pages, which i did. it was enough for her that day - she said she just wanted to know what it was like, so no harm done (ha). then about a month later, the chickens came home to roost. she brought it out for us to read at bedtime and never looked back. we repeatedly made it clear we would stop at any time she felt it was too much. the first time through the series i censored a bit and answered any direct question she asked - so she knew in advance if characters would be ok (or if they wouldn't.) it never occurred to me that this would change her view of literature and cause all sorts of problems - she was clearly getting a LOT of joy out of it. her play changed, her artwork changed - she really bloomed in so many ways. it was the same when she found Terry Fox - it was like this whole new world opened for her that she connected to on quite a deep level. at the time, i kept thinking "how could this be bad?" even with the problems it may have given us, i'm not sorry about it.

we did (and continue to) have the most wonderful conversations about HP. everything from speculation about the "rules" of the magical world to weirdly sophisticated interpersonal issues. i was especially grateful for HP all last year with the bad school situation: DD had a boatload of friendship/bullying problems and we could talk about issues in terms of "that time that Ron... or Neville... or Mr. Malfoy" etc. it was an unexpectedly helpful shorthand for her. i know that all good literature works that way, i just happen to be specifically grateful to HP! smile

Zen - thanks so much for that recommendation! a character called "Ethan Cheeseman" sounds like a goldmine, if you ask me!
Posted By: cricket3 Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 01/03/14 03:25 PM
Just a quick aside- I think "a Nother Whole Nother Story" is the second book (IIRC the first is just "a Whole Nother Story). We liked both, and there may be a third, but you might want to start with the first. They were favorites here and for quite a while nothing else measured up to their humor....
Posted By: ultramarina Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 01/03/14 03:57 PM
Sorry--I don't mean to suggest that you deny her books she wants to read! I don't do that here (although we're holding off on Harry POtter for DS5 for now--but he's not actively asking for it). I don't believe in that except in a very few cases. It sort of sounded like maybe she had the idea that kids' books were mostly not so great/she was past that and you were sort of willing to go ahead with that, is all. (There was the bit about her being likely to "skip it," which I thought of as "skipping kids' books.") And I thought maybe you might be kind of willing because you didn't read all that much fiction as a child, and might not be aware of all that is out there? (Much more than we were kids...) I could have that totally wrong, so correct at will. smile
that is a great point about DD possibly feeling like kids books are terrible after last year - i really hadn't seen that connection and i'd be willing to bet you're bang on! but i *think* we might have stumbled on a fix for that with the Book Project... it's only three days old, but she's been reading a lot of her old picture books - quality stuff like Lionni, Lobel and Steig. so, fingers crossed!
Posted By: Mana Re: books for a 5 y/o Douglas Adams fan - 01/06/14 07:44 PM
doubtfulguest, thank you for sharing. It's very helpful for me to know how HP came into your DD's life and it sounds like it's was at the right time for your DD. Our DD's emotional maturity when she is having her moment and her comprehension level are years apart. This is also a child until a few weeks ago thought dogs can read so she's obviously not exactly ready for HP. We told her she had to wait a few years (we're thinking 8) and she seems fine by the decision. I got her a HP lego minifig so she can at least play HP. wink
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