I'm asking advice on whether to make an appt to talk to my DD6's principal now about plans for next year.

Quick ( or not so quick) background:
DD6 (late May birthday) has not been tested though I suspect she is gifted. Her verbal skills have been the most obvious. At 2.5 months of age if I set her down and walked away she would clearly yell "mom". It was a bit disconcerting and I shrugged it away. She said it all the time to me by 5 months of age and dada shortly after. Talked in phrases by 12 months and fluent long sentences by 2. At 2.5 months of age she would focus clearly on each illustration in the original Olivia book and then laughed everytime she saw the picture of the dog. At 8 months she sat amidst piles of books turning each page as she studied each one carefully and ignored all her other toys around her. She was trying hard to read at 26 months then seemed to stop until she picked up a book just after turning 3 and read entire books fluently. She was reading long novels (4th to 6th grade level) before kindergarten. She picks up math easily and know addition, subtraction, some multiplication, fractions but has never really gotten into it so we don't spend much time on it.

We moved 1.5 year ago so that we could live in a better, family friendly type neighborhood with a good school district. The biggest concern is that the GATE program does not start until 5th grade. But the plus side is that the principal of her school has a background in gifted education and it seems like a special interest. She is a representative for the Calif Assoc of Gifted group.

My DD just finished kindergarten. I would say she learned next to nothing the entire year. Just a few random facts such as when the "Bat Lady" came and taught them about bats. She did improve on her writing skills but truly that is it. They did an awful lot of art there and she loves art so she was not completely miserable. She had a suprisingly difficult time connecting with the other kids and took a long time making good friends. The teacher kept telling us she was just a very quiet, introverted, serious girl which is really not her personality at all which bothered me greatly though it did improve some. My DH felt strongly that we should not try to push for differentiation as she was already having trouble fitting in and thought socializing was more important this year. I agreed though I also think DH is also just wanting to keep a low profile and figures that public school is never going to be able to give her the individual attention she needs anyway.

So, the question is.....do you think it is worth talking to the principal now to get her ideas for next year or is it better to just wait and get her settled in first grade before we start asking for teacher/principal meetings. I thought about meeting with the principal all last year but in the end I didn't really know what to ask for so I didn't. I am sort ok with her not learning anything in kindergarten as we did get her more comfortable and she made friends but I am not ok with her wasting another year academically.

I wouldn't wait until next year. I'd make that appointment and talk to the principal ASAP.

I'd ask the principal for her suggestions. Off the cuff, I'd say she's an excellent candidate for acceleration.

Better late than never.

I would make the appointment immediately. It may take a while for them to put a plan in place. Ask if they will evaluate her for giftedness, or if you need to have her tested privately. Then ask what they will do to help her enjoy school and learn. Also, ask if she can be assigned to a teacher who is open to giving her differentiation. (some are not! Our K teacher was offended, and actually became quite hostile to us once we began asking questions about offering harder/different material.)

I have twins who just completed K. We asked for help in February, and didn't get anything in place until the end of May. Both are gifted, and both began to have problems in K, one before the end of the first semester and the other in Jan. Once we began seeing physical symptoms of anxiety, personality changes, etc. and realized that one was already "checking out" and making mistakes on worksheets because he was so bored, I tried to ask the teachers for help, but was told there wasn't anything they could do in K for differentiation and that the twins should just "enjoy K."

The teacher of the twin who had the most issues accused us of pushing him too hard, and just couldn't accept that he was only anxious at school and that it was due to the fact they were refusing to acknowledge his actual reading level and making him read level 1 books and making him do counting worksheets when he was reading high school level texts at home and teaching himself multiplication and square roots.

I did some research, found the gifted teacher at their school and asked for the twins to be evaluated. Officially our school doesn't offer differentiation until second grade, but in our state, the schools HAVE to assess the children if asked in writing. Once they are identified as gifted, the school has to do a Gifted IEP. I made the request in FEBRUARY, and their GIEP plans were not done until the end of MAY, so they really didn't receive any differentiation in K. But it took months to go through the "official" process. They do each have a plan in place for enrichment and differentiation for 1st grade, and I am keeping my fingers crossed, although I plan to check in with the gifted teacher often.

I guess I sound like a complete loser for not doing it before now but I think in part it is not knowing if she is really gifted or just an early and advanced reader and also because she was reasonably happy doing art and having trouble making friends. She doesn't like to write very much so we would have to work on that quite a bit for any grade skipping to be practical. I don't think the district offers testing since there isn't a gifted program until 5th grade and I spoke to a mom at a different school in the district who had done private testing and it didn't seem to make a difference for them. I am counting on this principal being more open to accomodations as we go through school but who knows. I suppose testing would give me the confidence that she is actually gifted and how much I need to push (her school, not her) at this age. I don't know. I am guessing she is MG or HG but I don't know. Its quite expensive to do private testing isn't it?

I don't think you sound like a loser at all for not doing it before now. I didn't mention in my PP that we knew at least one of our twins was quite "ahead" of his peers, but we didn't plan to ask for any accommodations/differentiation until first grade. K is a half day here, and we were told that they would be assigned reading based on their actual level (which was to be tested), so we thought we would wait and let him "enjoy" K, as there isn't much actual "work."

The problem was that he didn't enjoy it AT ALL, as it turned out that they just didn't want kindergarteners to advance beyond a certain level in reading (I was told he would probably stay at the same level all year). He literally began having physical symptoms of anxiety at school and home that could not be ignored, was having tantrums about having his homework/reading, and began to literally not care if he did his worksheets correctly. For example, he has been able to count to twenty since he was two, but started to make mistakes in counting on his worksheets because they were so boring, which were then counted against him for grading purposes. The change in him was frightening to me, and after I requested a teacher/parent meeting and it became apparent that she wasn't going to change anything, or try to teach him what he knew to pass the next reading level test, I started looking for help and reading our state laws regarding gifted programming. At one point, she actually wrote an email stating that it was fine if he just "maintained" his reading level ALL YEAR as he was already ahead. The problem was that it wasn't fine with HIM, as he was watching his brother change reading levels, and once his brother passed him it became a real issue, as his brother is a good reader, but not at the same level, and he knew it. It caused a huge amount of anxiety, as he couldn't understand why he could pass the reading test. Luckily I live in a state (PA) that mandates gifted programming if necessary, and requires testing if a parent asks.

I wasn't planning to have his brother tested, as he seemed to be doing fine (he needed to work on his handwriting, and was not way ahead in reading at that point), but right after I requested testing for the one twin, the other started having meltdowns about going to school, because it was so boring. It was about the same time they finished the handwriting portion of the curriculum.

We will not be doing grade skipping, as they are twins, and the Iowa scale only recommends grade skipping if both twins would benefit, which isn't the case (at least right now.)

We did find that the testing caused the resistant teacher to at least accept that what I was telling her about his reading and math skills was actually true, as she couldn't argue with his test scores (there was an achievement test component to the test.) I think he had more reading instruction in the last two months of school than he did all year, but by that time reading with the reading teacher caused him to feel physically ill, so it was still a problem.

I would talk to the principal asap! That being said.....I'm also a huge proponent of testing!!! We didn't have a clue what we were dealing with in terms of our DD9 until we got the feedback from her testing.

DD had an okay year of Kindergarten, then 1st grade was the year from hell with behavior issues that caused school to tell us she had ADD/ADHD and her teacher to tell us DD had ODD or conduct disorder. Things got bad very quickly. (not saying this will happen to your DD, but it definitely could). The testing showed DD wasn't any of those things - she was just very smart and very bored. This paved the way for a GIEP and better accommodations for her. You can check out my previous posts for more of our saga!

We paid out of pocket for psychoeducational testing through the psych/ed department of one of the top colleges for our state. The fee was probably 1/2 of what a private tester would charge and luckily our school accepted the testing since some schools won't. The only complaint I have from the testing is that they used the KABC-II and Kaufman Achievement tests instead of the very popular WISC. At the time we didn't even know there were different tests. You'll need to find out if your school has to use their own tester or if they are willing to accept outside testing.

If you speak to the principal now, rather than wait until next school year, you will hopefully already lay some groundwork in terms of next year's placement, etc. Also like momoftwins said - it takes time, so the sooner the better. We started advocating in 1st grade and even though DD had a "behavior" type plan in place at school, she didn't get the GIEP until 3rd grade.

Start educating yourself! You should also look into your state's education policies and your school's policies. Just because the GATE program doesn't start until 5th grade doesn't mean there isn't something else available for the lower grades. Our DD was able to work with the gifted teacher in 2nd grade as a sort of trial, but the policy stated it could only be for so many months.

Finding this forum is a good starting point. There are lots of experienced people with good ideas! Good Luck!!

I agree that you should make an appointment now. We suffered through several months of DS being more and more miserable in 2nd grade before we asked for a comprehensive evaluation from the school. We made our request at the end of December, and we didn't have the IEP meeting until mid-March. In our district they don't have to do a comprehensive evaluation unless there's an academic problem, but in our case DS's worsening behavior (and otherwise excellent grades) gave us a good argument.

We were advised to put the request in writing, so the school must respond. I'd try talking to the principal first, though, just to see what she says.

I agree to speak with the principal ASAP. DS5.5 is going into first grade this year after a very boring year of K. He had early entrance but still, no challenge what so ever. They did let him skip K math and do 1st grade...OK, not any better since he is doing long division at Kumon at the moment.

" For example, he has been able to count to twenty since he was two, but started to make mistakes in counting on his worksheets because they were so boring, which were then counted against him for grading"

This happened to DS as well. He had multiple mistakes on a worksheet that he had done in school with problems like 8+4. Complete boredom, and sloppy work because of it.

We did speak to the lower school principal who clearly doesn't get him yet. Has had no real exposure at all. Our word is all we have AND the test results that I don't even think registered with her. We did however agree that he will be allowed a tutor to come in for math class. (He is in private school) They will put him in a different room at school for math. Still, even though his K teacher has explained to her on what level DS is in both math and reading I am not sure she took it seriously. His K teacher is new to K and has previously taught the 3's. Next year he will be with a 29 year veteran who hopefully will see him for what he is and report to the principal. I am thinking she will listen to this teacher.

Ask about acceleration. Say that you would be willing to do it on a trial basis. Ask about subject acceleration (although this is hard if your child is many years ahead), possible in the classroom advanced work. But do it now.

I would suggest you make an attempt to meet with the principal now - for the simple reason that this is weighing on your mind, so acting - simply doint something to help you feel like you've moved forward, is going to be a good place to start.

I'm also guessing you won't accomplish much with the school at this point in the year - but try not to be discouraged if you don't. Having a request to meet with the principal about this now, in writing, and hopefully an actual meeting if it works out - will give you a good head start in the fall when things *can* happen.

In the meatime, I'd use the summer break to gather data - pull together any info and testing you do have from the school - reading level testing for example, as well as work products. You can also write down things that your dd has talked to you about that indicate a higher/deeper level of thinking than the average-age child - something she is talking about now or something she talked about when she was younger. Put together a brief written bio that lists when she started counting, reading, adding numbers etc. And - jmo - I'd consider seeking out private testing. You want to look for someone who will administer ability and achievement testing. You have the option of waiting until school starts up again and asking the school to do the testing, but if you're really wondering yourself and can afford it, I'd get testing done privately for two reasons - one is, there's a lower probability of second-guessing the results plus it's often easier to ask questions of private providers than to get details from school psychs, and more importantly, if you're able to get the testing administered over the summer, you'll have cold hard data to back up your requests for differientation or acceleration etc in the fall when school starts up again. Not that that will guarantee you anything, but I've found it always helps to have data that backs you up - because the chances are *really* good you won't be the only mom of a first grader who didn't learn anything in kindergarten that wants more for their child next year. K/1/2 teachers are used to hearing from parents that their child needs more, and in reality most likely a lot of kids gifted or not could use more of a challenge in those early years - so chances are you'll be talking to school staff who hear a lot of parents who *think* their children are gifted - and they might be or they might not be - so you might run into a few soft walls from teachers/etc who will see you as just another parent wanting more for your child. Having the test numbers to prove your child is intellectually gifted will give you credibility to get past that mindest on the part of the school staff.

Best wishes,

polarbear

I do love the thoughtful and helpful advice. This really is a wonderful forum.

You are all making me braver about going to see her. She honestly seems nice and approachable. I guess it is because the kindergarten teacher wasn't particularly helpful or encouraging. She was concerned when I told her that DD was unhappy and when she learned that she is not normally very quiet and solitary but she didn't seem to excited to give her more appropriate work. Once she sent her home with an easy book -like a couple sentences per page x 5-7 pages and a blank page and asked for a book report. That didn't go well. DD was not excited about writing a bunch of sentences and then the teacher didn't like her work and never tried anything else. She was never assessed for a reading level and they never let her read anything but very beginner books. They didn't even let them choose from the entire library when they went every week. They had books set up for them to choose from. They did a brief assessment using some standardized testing 2x during the year. She made a couple stupid mistakes on some ridiculously easy stuff like counting boxes. They didn't test anything harder. She started off the year asking for me to ask the teacher to let her do more interesting and harder work but after a while she didn't ask anymore and seemed more or less content doing art all day at school.

Sigh. I know my DD is not average. She is clearly well above average. I think honestly I was/am probably MG when I look at things now and my DH somewhere in the gifted realm but held back by ADHD and other things. I think DD is more gifted than me but then I second guess myself. I thought the kindergarten teacher would see her abilities and do something but she did not. I kind of think she thinks that I am pushing DD. She asked me once "when does DD get to be a child?" Seriously?! DD is still very much a child and loves dress up and art and plays with horses and barbies. She is not pushed and in fact I often feel guilty that I do not have time to expose her to more since I am stuck working all the time. My DH does not seem to want to push things either. I think I need to meet with her for my peace of mind though and perhaps at least do basic testing so I am more confident about pushing things.

From personal experience, ds 6 just finished k. Get testing, then talk to the principal. Our meeting with the principal would have been a waste of time without the numbers to back us. (We live in a district where everyone thinks their child is gifted and/ or should be in gt program.) the principal took one look at the numbers and was very willing to listen and work with us. Also, the teacher made a complete 180. (I will say that we kept saying teacher tried, not enough. Teacher would try again, w/I a week, not enough. So, we said she tried and just focused on next year.)

Yes, testing was pricey. However, for us, we also learned ds has a eye teaming issue needing vision therapy (though he reads 4th level easily). We also were validated (as was my son) and gained a great resource who I know we are going to need to use again. Overall, it felt worth it to both me and my husband (dh didn't quite get it before- "he'll be fine" kind of thing).

Use your gut. You know your child better than anyone else. Btw, my ds just missed dys cut off (due to vision stuff. Was told if he retested would be atleast 10 pts higher after vt). With that in mind, the neuropsych who rested ds said if the principal doesn't want to accommodate ds, pull him from the school. So, I know you said numbers didn't help others. Well, maybe another school or school environment would help. No one wants their dc acting completely different/ unlike self at school. All kids deal with stress differently. Yet, at this young age, we need to help them by advocating.

Hope a couple of these thoughts help:)
Good luck and keep us posted!

Your story sounds similar to our DD. I agree with the previous posters. I'd call the principal and make an appointment. I would also encourage you to get her tested. Good luck!

Update.
Well, I did listen to everyone saying that I should meet with the principal right away but I also took seriously the comments about taking examples of advanced work or the reading level from kindergarten testing etc with me to the meeting. She was never testing for reading in kindergarten at all. I honestly don't know how any of the kids in her class learned to read as they seemed to do very little reading. The teacher told me at our parent conference at the end of Nov that she would be put with a group of 4 kids in the 2 paired kindergarten classes that were fluent readers and she would be given leveled reading on a weekly basis. This translated to about 4 times during the rest of the school year where she sat in a group of 4 kids and a teacher and they read very very easy reader books out loud together and then brought that book home to practice. My 2 year old could almost read those books! She wasn't even allowed to chose any book she wanted at the library when they went every week. The librarian just set books out that they could chose from. Anyway, my point is that I do not have any advanced work to show anyone as she wasn't given any at school and we don't school at home. We may research things or talk about some things at home as the opportunity arises but she is not a child who enjoys doing worksheets or writing things down. Add to that my uncertainty about how gifted she really is......I mean sure, I know she is pretty bright but perhaps after reading about gifted children I am just overestimating her abilities. I don't know. Silly most likely but I believe there are an awful lot of parents in this area that think there child is gifted whether or not they really are and I don't want to be blown off as one of those parents.

Bottom line...... she is doing the WISC tomorrow. I have not met with the principal yet. I am going to get the results and then decide what to do with them. Perhaps I am wrong and she is just high ability or regular gifted and then I can just relax a bit (or obsess over what went wrong on testing day) and see how school starts off. The private psychologist that is doing the testing told me she has worked with students at her school and mentioned that right now the principal is being challenged by having quite a few very bright kids in the second grade class and is working on plans for appropriate differentiation. That sounded promising. Too bad it isn't the 1st grade class.

I am a little nervous though. As soon as I confirmed the appointment yesterday she started to sneeze and has runny nose. I debated greatly about rescheduling but it seemed ideal to get it done before school starts and I am off this week. She didn't seem too sick today though still a little congested. I hope that wasn't a bad decision.