I am finally decided to proceed with additional requests regarding my DD6. She is currently in second grade (year skipped). Based on her test results/grades and giving her end of the year test (3d grade one) I decided to ask to move her to 3d grade math. I am having some doubts as far as "holes" in her knowledge. So I am gathering info on what they teach in 3d grade. She understands fractions (easily works on adding and subtracting fractions with common denominators). Understands and works with multiplications and divisions. However, she doesn't know the facts (i.e. cannot take timed tests on multiplication facts). Geometry is easy for her. We covered negative items (adding and subtracting them). The reason that I am doing it - she is really interested in moving forward with concepts and bigger picture math but refuses to work on basics (like memorizing multiplication facts) with me. She is much better in doing what is required by others than if it comes from me... I just wanted to make sure that we are up for a reasonable challenge (I am thinking month or so to memorize all the facts that are needed). I also need this info to be prepared to show her readiness and resonate with arguments like "She should know multiplications 1 through 5 by this time of year"... and lay out a plan to catch up in needed areas. Ultimate goal is to take standardized math test for 3d grade at the end of the year with 3d graders and proceed with 4th grade math next year. Any detailed info on what your kids are doing in class (not at home!!! ) would be appriciated. Thank you!

You can go to ixl.com and see all the common core math curriculum laid out for each year ( by state). It helped give me a great idea of what math each grade covers, and where my son fits in.

In our district, January of 3rd grade is when kids start taking timed multiplication tests. Prior to that (Everyday Math, so since 1st grade) they have worked on arrays and the concept of multiplication. Some of the things that are more obscure but might come up as "holes" are a.m. vs. p.m. and elapsed time.

Honestly, though, when my kids accelerated, these tiny "holes" were the only thing that challenged my kids. And challenged is a strong word. The holes were filled almost instantaneously, sometimes with a little practice (which is, afterall, what most kids get), but usually with just a brief discussion of the topic. You'll probably get some concern from teachers and administrators about these holes, but anyone with experience with gifted learners will tell you that holes will not be a problem.

Your main clue to the areas she will need to learn will be what she missed on the end-of-third test she took. You may find, however, that her mere exposure to the questions allowed her to pick up the concepts. Besides, it she is entering into 3rd grade math, they should teach her the concepts she missed on the end-of-third test, just like they will teach all the other 3rd grade students.

You definitely though want to make sure your child gets down multiplication (and addition/subtraction) facts cold since it will ultimately hold them back in the upper levels of math.
My second grader knows his multiplication,e tc. facts cold- we are not grade-skipping him since we have a very good G/T program that starts in 4th grade. However, we will keep working on it until he gets there.

Third grade for us (in addition to the multiplication and division facts -- and yes, you'll want those memorized and fluent, even if it's just to keep the school from having an "excuse" for not moving her forward if they're looking for one)...

1) Addition with carrying and subtraction with borrowing
2) Starting some equivalent fractions
3) Decimal place value (square divided into 100 boxes...shade in 0.34 of the box)
4) Comparing decimals (less than...greater than)
5) Perimeter
6) Multiplication of factors of ten by a single-digit number (200 x 7 or 80 x 8)
7) Comparing "easy" fractions
8) Elapsed time (frequently shows up on grade-level standardized tests)
9) Range...median...mode...maximum...minimum
10) Concept of area (not having to calculate it with side lengths, but seeing a shape on a grid of square centimeters and being able to count the squares to state the "area")
11) Lines of symmetry

You might enjoy picking up the Beast Academy 3rd grade math supplements for her put out by AoPS. I have heard kids really enjoy them.

phey--thanks for the ixl address. BTW, if that's really common core, does anyone else notice what seems to be overlap and repetition (e.g., between 6th and 7th grade topics)? Is the idea that kids repeat stuff so they really learn it well, or that the problems are more difficult somehow in later years? And if so, I wonder how they measure that.

Being rather new to schooling....my son just turned five, so I have only very recently started looking into stuff, I don't know much about what common core is..although I know there is a lot of angst about it, but I am not sure why.

But from what I can tell there is a lot of repetition. I.e. while double digit adding will be covered in second grade, they might not to triple digit until third...even though the principle is exactly the same and seems to me that it would make sense to do it all at one time. Another example - they introduce Roman numerals in first grade, but only cover up to 10, second grade goes up to 100, and third up to 9999. Again, there is a lot of repetition. Each grade seems to do a lot of the same thing, only slightly increasing the level of complexity. While it is probably good to go over things that are only rarely used (roman numerals) in math on a yearly basis to keep it in your head, I don't see the point of covering one topic so incompletely - why can't a child do three digit adding if they can do two? I don't know if that answers your question. I think they figure that each subject needs something like seven repetitions for the average learner...can't remember where I heard that "statistic".

Did you or the school give her the end of third grade test? It stands to reason that her performance on that test should show what her gaps are and what the third grade expectations are for that curriculum.

One "hole" that has come up for my DD (currently in 3rd but doing 4th grade math) who has changed schools and skipped some curriculum is metric system measurement. She has never done Roman numerals to my knowledge, FWIW.

They do the same thing with time starting with basic time concepts of before, after, morning, noon and night, am and pm (then to the hour and half hour one year, quarter hour and 5 minutes the next, and to the minute the following year, and finally time problems using elapsed time). It appears to me that each year they review the previous knowledge to be able to move on to the next level of knowledge.

Thank you all for replying! I am meeting with DD teacher tomorrow and drawn a game plan. Web-site (ixl) is amazing. We will use it from now on. Your responses helped me to see what I am looking for and how to proceed. On top of it, her teacher was so quick to respond to my request and offer some suggestions - I am happy. We'll see how this will go tomorrow!!! My plan now is shaped as follows: ask for 3d grade homework (I guess we have to find willing teacher to help with it), so we can see what is done in the classroom every week. Also, request 3d grade book so that we can catch up on concepts that she might missed. Ask to go to the 3d grade classroom once a week for math (so that she will not be scared to go once it is determined she is ready). Take a test before switch to make sure that she up to speed with everybody in 3d grade and (if not allowed to go to 3d grade class) ask for end of the year testing so that we can use results to go directly to 4th grade math next year. And at home - IXL multiplication/division drills, of course...

MorningStar, it sounds like you've got a good plan. There's one thing I'd consider on the idea of visiting the class once per week for math - and this might not be true at other schools, but at the schools my kids are at, math is taught daily and concepts build through the week - so going in just one day per week could backfire on you in two directions: one thing that could happen is your dd might not get the full explanation of concepts the other kids have had so *she* might feel a little lost and... possibly a larger issue - if the 3rd grade teacher isn't entirely on board with subject acceleration she might feel like your dd is missing things that she's not really *missing* because she isn't ready to learn it, but she's missing them simply because she isn't there when they are taught. Sooooo... I would be hesitant to send my child one day per week.

I do totally understand the idea of wanting to help ease her in without undue anxiety. I'd just consider whether or not you might find a different way to deal with it.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Just wanted to update. Basically, it went as expected (although, I admit, I had my hopes high!). Teacher was very nice but told that school will not upgrade her to the third grade math. She also told me that school will not allow testing just because they will test them all at the beginning of the 3d grade and then will group them with most advance kids pretty much doing 4th grade math at that point. School position is also that we shouldn’t teach them 3d grade math so that they will have something to learn next year… So she cannot give me 3d grade book to use at home. She will, however, look for 3d grade math homework and already asked my daughter and a few other kids to do short “teaching” on Fridays in front of the whole class. Surprisingly, this made my daughter happy. So overall aftermath – “please educate your own kid” thing all over again  And I don’t think it is her vision but rather school’s one. She was very clear that she would prefer grouping by abilities (no matter what ability level). I guess, I could go directly to school psychologist/support group and can push for it, but after considering your responses and looking into this more I decided to wait until the third grade “differentiation” and continue to work on multiplication/division fact memorization as well as work ahead using ixl web-site and 3d grade math book (we going to buy ourselves).

I was down a little bit and had this whole “why even try/bother” attitude but my DD had her “science” mood that evening and did a spectacular presentation about her rock collection and recited all of the names/fun facts for all of them (I ashamed to say, I did not know she is so into them, just thought that was a bunch of shiny pebbles…) so I saw again why I am doing all of it for  Thank you all for your help and thoughts!

I ran into exactly the same problem in 1st and 2nd. We have reached something of a solution in 3rd. He had been doing Singapore math, but in 2nd the school district offered a group rate through the District for EPGY. I got the run around at the second conference in 2nd grade, so I called the Principal for an appointment. I was able to show her the math DS was doing, printed report from EPGY which is used by the District for gifted children 5th and up. She agreed that he would have advanced math. He does EPGY in class and after school care and works on advanced sections with two other children in class.

One thing I didn't push math facts. I let him fill out times table sheets to help complete problems faster. When his class started to work on math facts this year, suddenly he knew them better than anyone.

My son is also 6 (in private school Kindergarten) and is doing some higher math there. His teacher gives him 3rd grade worksheets that haven't, however, touched on multiplication.

Since he's shown interest, at home he's learning multiplication using Disney's Schoolhouse Rock-Multiplication. They have a great interactive DVD you can find on Amazon.

It makes me smile to hear my son sing the songs to get the answers to quizzes I give.

I haven't been able to get in-class acceleration for my two either, although DS8's teacher gave me her blessing to let DS work out of his sister's grade 5 text. But again, it comes down to the parent doing it.

Morningstar your DD sounds similar to my two... conceptually ahead but not keen on rote work like facts.

Even though DD10 was multiplying at 3 yrs (using a white board to draw circles and dots for anything over single digit) she is only just now (at 10 yrs) solid and fast on her times tables memorization.

DS8 was just like your DD when he was six - he learned advanced concepts easily and tired quickly of repetition. It was hard, really, because I worried that he wasn't getting enough repetition to remember concepts. He was doing the same things your DD is and he loved it, but anything more than 10 or so questions of the same type made him squirrelly.

Anyway, due to the aversion to rote facts, their marks in school haven't really reflected their ability. As important as memorized facts are, I've never pushed rote - I don't want to turn math into a chore. DD10 got her first math A in grade 4. Even so, she still made it into the gifted pull out in grade 3 and 5 (they didn't run it in grade 4 due to lack of funding).

Phey - you're right - there is SO much repetition. I wonder sometimes how many of my kids' classmates could learn above grade level stuff if they asked for it. Sometimes I think my kids aren't ahead - it's just the school curriculum that's really soft. I guess they have to make it accessible to the math-phobia kids too.

My homeschooled DD8 didn't want to learn multiplication tables, but I nudged her into compliance by quickly demonstrating a 3-digit x 2-digit problem, narrating as I went, and then closing with, "In order to do THIS, you need to first learn THAT."

A few months later, she's doing multi-digit multiplication, long division, and adding/subtracting fractions with different denominators... and loving it. She declares math to be her favorite subject. We pulled her out of 2nd grade and skipped her to 3rd, but now her math abilities appear to be running ahead of the 4th graders at her old school.

Multiplication memorization is the key that unlocked all of this. It may have been a chore to do the memorization, but it made everything that came after far less so.

I know you're right about this... I just wish there was a way to make it more fun. I've always hated memorization (still do) so I have a reflexive aversion to it which I need to overcome, so I can show my kids how to as well...

Hey,
Sorry I can't remember all the nifty ideas; there was a thread about this awhile ago (for how to make it fun). All I can remember is what worked for us which is "Multiplication War"--just like the card game "War," but you each put down two cards at once from your pile and then multiply them; let the kids do it and figure out who won. (also works for division and subtraction, ha) We would also go for family walks and swing DD when she answered a question right, but that works better when you have a higher ratio of adults to kids. Good luck!

We currently backed away from "on purpose" memorization of the multiplication tables since she was so against it. She seems to be happier just to learn "as she goes" meaning when she does something that requires multiplication/division - she can use printout table and after two or three times she will have it in her memory. So we have random 4*6 and 8*9 kind of facts so far down but it will come eventually. It slowes us down a bit but I think we ahead enough not to worry about it anyway :-) Thank you all for suggestions - we will use them this summer if needed!

Free game that is really good for teaching multiplication...TimezAttack (find it by googling it) and down load the free version. TimezAttack is fancy graphics but systematic instruction. (TimezAttack also has an +- in Beta and I think division but we have only been working on x).

Game that costs...Aleks.com...my son is doing the third grade program math class work through Aleks and that includes (separately) +-x and division tables work in a systematic way but also includes little games to play (nothing fancy).

We also have been trying Times Attack by Big Brains. My DS who knew them before, but slowly, has really upped his speed and now does better than me. (I really need to play the game, as I was never a fast calculator, and maybe the only person in my differential equations class who still had to count on her fingers..;( Sad but true.)