I wasn't sure where to post this, so I decided under this forum.

I'm so frustrated! My 6-year-old son is very big for his age. He's the same size as many 8/9-year-old kids. He's meant to be entering first grade in September, but he's accelerated and entering third instead. (Nice that he's big for his age because he easily fits right in with his classmates.)

Right now, he's attending a summer camp for gifted kids so he's in class with 5/6-year-old kids, same age peers. When dropped off at camp the TA asked if he was feeling better this morning. (Apparently, he was pretty upset with his teacher yesterday. Never said anything to me about it, so probably got over it not long after it happened.) When I had a concerned look on my face, this was the story she told me...

Another little boy in class was goofing off and my son started to laugh at him. This wasn't news to me, as my son is known for getting dragged into any mischief happening in class. This other little boy is small for his age, easily more than a head shorter than mine. Apparently, the teacher told my son, "Stop laughing at him. You're encouraging him. You should know better. You're bigger than him. You're going into third grade, etc..."

Ummm...

I'm sorry, teacher. Shouldn't YOU know better? My son is 6-years-old. The same exact age as this other little boy. Yes, he's bigger than him. Yes, he's accelerated two years. However, he's only been in school for one year, just like this other little boy. And he's 6-years-old! AND it's funny when another kid is being a clown!

I'm not looking for advice or anything. My son was fine. He didn't hang onto any of it. He never does. He certainly must learn to behave appropriately in class, so I'm not opposed to the lesson of not laughing when another child is misbehaving. I guess I'm just venting frustration at the way it was done, which gives an insight into how the teacher perceives things. Six years of dealing with the "stop your son from behaving inappropriately", when in fact he's merely exhibiting normal behavior for his age, has worn me down! The mother tiger came out in me.

Aargh!

I hear what you're saying, but I'd be less angry furiously peeved about how he's being treated than worried that he will fit in badly due to his younger behavior in the fall. I'm already worried that my son's goofiness will be an issue in the fall-- this can with a certain breed of teacher result in opposition to your son, you, or further acceleration.

I'm not saying he has to be older than he is, or that the teacher shouldn't take into account his biological age, but he will ideally adapt too and try to fit in; it's a constant process. Failure to follow classroom rules and routines is an often cited reason for denials of kindergarten or early grade skips. Maybe your son should try not to get dragged into random bits of goofiness in class for a while. Do you think he'd be able to handle that?

Also, I understand your reasons for feeling the way you do, but I don't feel that the teacher was really out of line. Your son should try to act more mature, especially if he's heading into the third grade. Third grade, even more than second, is about fitting into a routine that includes classroom rules and often homework, and increased writing. These are areas that seem to often challenge gifties after a grade skip, and I think it's best to work on any weak areas if at all possible.

This is the struggle we're faced with when we keep our kids in the public school, which can unfortunately be exacerbated by teachers with poor understanding.

(ETA: st. pauli girl makes good points about playing up/down-- my hope too is that he gets to be with grade mates at camp next year. Maybe that's all it is.)

I think a lot of GT kids will rise to the level of their peers (and sink as well). My DS was always kind of a teacher pleaser, so we didn't have issues of him getting in trouble, but he was always fascinated with the troublemakers, finding them very entertaining. When he skipped 1st, he commented on how much better behaved the 2nd graders were compared with the kindgergartners. There was only one kid in his local school 2nd grade that was sort of a trouble-maker, and surprise surprise, he was much better behaved when they started giving him more advanced work. Each year the kids get better. Hopefully next year, if your son goes to the same GT camp, he'll get to go with grademates instead of agemates. Our local camps are set up more by grade than age.

I'm glad your son wasn't too upset about the teacher's comment. It's possible it was more of an exasperated response from the teacher than a judging comment, but you never know. I agree that laughing at someone doing something funny is pretty darn appropriate.

st pauli girl...I think you're absolutely right that the response was not a "judging comment" from his teacher. I actually like her very much. I think it just hit my frustration nerve. (And from what I understand, she was frustrated at the time. Apparently, she's been having trouble with that kid not really having a manageable classroom etiquette.) And I'll admit, we frequently find ourselves falling into the trap of expecting a little too much out of a child who's only been on the earth for 6 years. I've been here much longer and I could certainly make better choices much of the time.

I'm glad the comment didn't really bother my son. Not much really bothers him. He's such a happy-go-lucky kid. Hopefully, next year he will rise to the level of his peers in class. (At least some of the time. Maybe? Thank goodness the teachers at his school all love him and think he's a great kid, regardless of the classroom antics he finds funny.)

I could certainly learn something about laughing a little more during the day from my son! And hey, maybe the kid was really funny! ;-)

I don't have advice, but I just wanted to say that I would have felt the same way you did. It would upset me because he was with his age peers acting like his age peers! It was wrong, IMO, for the teacher to hold him to a different behavior standard than the other kids based on what he will be doing academically in the fall. This is a summer program and is probably designed to be a little more laid-back than school is supposed to be. He needs to be able to act like a 6 year old when he's with 6 year olds -- that's called social awareness and empathy. His size shouldn't matter one bit either, although I know from years of experience with my super tall kids that people expect them to act as old as they look as opposed to how old they actually are. That's not fair of this teacher to expect different behavior from him because he happens to look older.

FWIW, my two gifted kiddos are masters of fitting into the groups they are placed into, whether that's age peers or friends and academic peers years older. I wouldn't expect, based soley on him acting his age with agemates, that your DS will have any trouble meeting the standards in his 3rd grade class in the fall. If you do find that your DS gets pulled in by the less-than-stellar behavior of a classmate, though, it's often easy enough to ask the teacher not to sit them near each other.

And I get that it will be important for your DS to fit in socially and meet the behavior expectations of his third grade class, but I just don't think that he should have been called out in this particular situation.

mnmom23: Thank you for the support! It's always nice to run into another mom with tall children. They all seem to have dealt with the same issue of people expecting their child to act their size, instead of their age. It's certainly helped me to remember that one should never judge a book by its cover. And it's been good preparation for dealing with the challenges of asynchronous development. My child is still a 6-year-old, no matter how academically precocious he may be.

I'm so happy to hear that your kids were able to fit into whatever situation was required of them. That gives me hope! I feel confident that whatever happens with my son next year, his teachers and principal love him, and have his best interest at heart. They're well aware of his uncanny ability to see the humor in every situation, naughty or nice! LOL

It's not that I don't understand asynchrony. But when you have a child who's known for getting involved in others' mischief in class, who got involved this time in a minor way and contributed to class disruption a bit, the teacher wasn't out of line in briefly scolding him.

In most third grade environments he really would be expected not to contribute to in-class mischief, no matter his age. If his teachers will be fine with contributions to others' disruptions etc. at his public school, I guess that's something, but the teacher here still wasn't out of line, and it would still be good if he could begin to adapt a little. The right response isn't anger furious peevishness; he wasn't traumatized and the teacher has to maintain order, and merely communicated to him what he should begin to know. The words "You're bigger than him" aren't enough to get angry furiously peeved over.

Maybe a good solution would be to get him switched to a more grade-appropriate group at camp. If that were done and the same thing happened, perhaps sans the sizist comment , would you still be upset?

lucounu: I think you misunderstand. I never said I was angry. I said I was frustrated. I also said that I understood the lesson she was teaching him, and I also said I understood that he must learn to behave appropriately in class. I feel like your reply stated all the same things that I'd said in my original post.

I agree with you...I think he must learn to behave appropriately in class to be successful in school. I hope that he's able to do that next year, and we're certainly working hard on that goal. So are his teachers at school. I harbor no ill-will toward this teacher at camp, though I do feel she should have handled the situation differently. Just my opinion, of course. We can disagree...that's totally fine.

Clearly, my frustration completely stemmed from the "sizist comment". It's been very difficult having a child who has always been two years ahead of his peers in size. (Add to that, the fact that he's been ahead of his peers hitting all of his milestones, too. It's been a nasty combination for him.) He's been expected to behave like a child two years older than him his whole life. That's not fair to him. Yes, I know...life's not fair. But I'm his mother, and I feel like it's my job to protect him when things aren't fair at this point in his life. He has plenty of time to learn the harsh realities of life. Right now, he's 6-years-old. I work very hard to remember that despite his size, despite his intelligence, he's still a baby. Others may disagree, but that's what I believe.

I can empathize quite a bit! I teach a self-contained class of gifted 4th and 5th graders, and after twelve years of doing that and trying to educate other staff members in the building as to what gifted kids are and are NOT, I still have to deal with hearing other staff members tell kids from my class, "I expect better from you! You're in the high ability class!" At least those same adults usually quickly come and complain to ME with their complaints about my students' behavior and tell ME what they "made clear to that kid about what we expect from the kids in your program" and I can "educate" them about the fact that my kids certainly need to behave themselves, but that they should NOT be held to some "higher standard" in that regard than all of the other kids who are NOT in my classroom. They're still just ten-year-olds, and the fact that they can solve complex algebraic equations during math time doesn't mean it's any easier for them to stay quiet in the cafeteria. I also have staff members who are surprised every year that I have students who don't turn in homework...students with messy desks...students who lose things...students who forget to turn in their permission slips for the field trip...etc. Just a lot of people out there who don't "get it." Sorry you had to deal with another one -- as you know, they usually mean well, but unless you live in "this world" all of the time, asynchronicity can be a tough concept to grasp.

I didn't misunderstand. I think you seem to have been somewhat upset, due to the mild rant, mention of the mother tiger coming out in you, etc.; I used the word "angry" words "furiously peeved" accordingly. It's not necessary to split hairs, and I don't think it's wrong to get angry furiously peeved sometimes over treatment of children. I just didn't think that your apparent level of frustration was warranted by the teacher's short corrective comments to your son, because she wasn't really off base in my opinion except maybe with regard to the size comment.

I'm also coming from the perspective of having seen such situations go further downhill. I think the teacher at the gifted camp should definitely be more aware of asynchronous development, and she should of course base all of her decisions not based on any physical characteristics at all, and should know the age of your son. But the camp wouldn't be my worry, it would be what happens if he acts up like a silly or bored six year old at school, and they use it against you somehow, despite all the initial positive interactions.

But if that's really not a worry at all, my comments may not apply in a practical way to your situation. From what I've read, smaller schools tend sometimes to be more flexible and understanding. Our school district has been fairly awful by comparison-- they are anti-skip (it's written into the district policies), and have shown a tendency to use any tiny justification to raise overblown concerns about maturity.

The good thing about your son's size and early milestones is that he will probably have an easier time fitting in with his grade peers as he advances. From that aspect it's a blessing, even if it prompts some minor thoughtless behavior from teachers now. I'd even bet that some teachers will tend to treat him better later on because he doesn't stick out so much size-wise.

((unresolved old Pet Peeve alert))
I think the problem, I hate myself for doing this to my son because as a grown up giftie and an oldest child I know better, but I still do it knowingly.  I am ashamed of myself and I will continue to do it.  Here it is. If we're somewhere or we're doing something and either or both of my kids make it difficult on me I say to the older one (he's only just under five) "don't make this difficult on me.  Make it easy on me or I won't think this is fun and we won't do this anymore.  I'll quit taking you places and we'll quit doing things if you make this hard on me".  

You hold the better kids to higher standards then you don't hold the worser kids to higher standards until they become better kids and hold them to higher standards and then you run the world by the system of accommodation to the standards of the worser kids, while continuing to hold the better kids to higher standards AND never putting better people in charge of the standards.  It's not fair.  And then, why is having higher standards of behavior for better kids accepted and encouraged, but skipping their grade in school to a level that matched theirs called, "not letting a kid be a kid".  

In other words, and I've thought this was awful since I was a kid and I still think this is awful,  everybody agrees that it is "let a kid be a kid" if you ration knowledge slowly and "save something to learn when they are older" but it's ok and expected to hold more responsible kids to higher and higher standards of "good" (mature) behavior and even to use them as "crowd control" for the other kids because it's convenient.  

These are Our Own unresolved issues from growing up gifted and they are Unresolvable because nobody thinks it's their responsibility to change their behavior on this for a million and one excuses why.  Whine.  Whine.  Whine.  Adjust.  (or don't- it doesn't matter).  This whole post shows very immature thinking because there's no solution, sadly.  Much Sadness.

My old, unresolved feelings:

IMO Childhood Innocence = Ignorance, but ='s being unburdened

Reality childhood = Irresponsible, but ='s sheltered from "growing up too fast" where growing up too fast = making their own decisions

lucounu: I feel like it's fairly presumptuous of you to think YOU know what I'M feeling (anger vs. frustration) because of a comment I made that was *written* in a post on a forum. Especially since I attempted to explain how I was feeling in order to clarify.

It seems that we just disagree about how this teacher should have handled the situation, and as I replied before...that's totally fine.

I'm all for a healthy debate, but I feel like I'm being baited or psychoanalyzed.

I'm just responding to OP.

I get you. I totally think the teacher didn't handle it well.

You and your son should just sit down and talk about how this may always be an issue and how to handle it.

When DD skipped for the first time, I sat down with her and discuss this very thing. How her age and her academic abilities aren't always aligned. How people have preconceived ideas of her and how she must always go in there proving herself. Even though logically you know what you're in for it gets old sometimes. You just sit down and talk and regroup.

DD and I are a team. I tend to be the toughest one on her. Explaining that I will hold her up to a very high standard because this is what she will face. I told her then that if she wanted the skip this is the challenge she must face..was she ready? She agreed to this as she knows this is training for ultimately handling various situations.

GL!

I did believe that you were angry furiously peeved, and perhaps that was presumptuous. Still, thoughts of defensive mother tigers don't evoke frustration so much. We don't need to nitpick about my choice of words further, do we?

I'm certainly not trying to bait or psychoanalyze you, and I think you've been a bit quick to take offense, but I'm chalking it up to frustration. You initially pointedly ignored my comments, and you clearly dislike that I'm in disagreement with you. I still think that it's best to view it from the teacher's perspective and the possible consequences of the behavior, like it or not. Most good parents would tend to instantly see things from their child's point of view, but it's not the only one.

I have some experience with negotiation and mediation, so that might contribute to more of an objective viewpoint. When faced with situations like yours, I'd tend to look at the entire context as a problem that needs to be solved, rather than myself as an advocate for my child over who's right (although I can certainly fit that role when necessary too). Many situations can be resolved with a minimum of fuss when everyone's concerns are validated and steps are taken to address them, within reason. From that perspective, anger furious peevishness, resentment or frustration over the actions of others can be counterproductive.

I agree with what lmp writes about our children often needing to prove themselves, even though it's unfair. I don't think it's possible to completely eliminate the misunderstandings or bias that may prompt such comments. The best we can do is to educate people when possible, encourage our children to behave as expected in their accelerated environments, and minimize any harm when things don't go as planned.

I had a teacher (who is wonderful ) tell me my daughter was "very immature." She didn't say it with any malice - she was simply stating what she perceived to be fact.

The correct thing to say, of course, would have been "your daughter is very unbalanced" (i.e. cognitively advanced and socially delayed), but that's not what she said.

Was she correct? Absolutely. Did she use the best choice of words? Possibly not.

Do I care? Not really, not anymore. I've past being worn down and now I'm at that awesome place of "whatever."

I think i would be much more upset to be told my kid was unbalanced than just immature.

It's true, I suppose, that "unbalanced" sounds pretty negative... but at least by saying that she would have acknowledged the GT component. In the conversation we had she was simply dwelling on my daughter's social immaturity, while completely ignoring that there was an equally atypical strength. Ah well. It's done now, and almost three years have passed...

my favorite teacher comment from the past was that our daughter wasnt as bright as we thought she was and if we disciplined her more at home we wouldnt have problems with her misbehaving at school. the teacher had her in the lowest reading group and lowest math group in an early primary grade. (but we didnt know that until later) this is what ultimately led to us getting her evaluated. We later found a computerized reading test that this teacher gave our child and never told us about that put her reading at a high school level.......
somehow these wounds fade and become less important but they never go all the way away do they? criticism of the offspring induces mommabear transformation. especially when it is inaccurate and not helpful. asynchonous kids are sometimes tough to raise. and even harder to explain to most mainsteam educators.

My DS8 gets those sort of comments all the time. He's 8, but very tall (closer in size to a 10yr old), can be very well spoken, BUT has PDD-NOS, and ADHD... I know he gets very frustrated by the expectations people have of him. Especially little things.. he can't remember a list of 4 chores to go do, regardless of how smart he is, he just can't do it.