Maybe this belongs in the college area, but since dd13 is in high school right now, I thought that I'd try it out here. Some of you may have followed my prior saga on how she isn't loving high school thus far. She's a freshman having skipped one grade a few years back. At this point, she's muddling through, has As in all of her subjects, and can more or less deal, but it really isn't a fit for her. I've researched the other options if this continues to be a poor fit as the year progresses and believe that I've ruled out switching to another local high school and online schooling.

The other local high schools, like her current school, seem to equate rigor with quantity. Online just doesn't look like something that is right for her. The local community college might be a possibility, but given that she just turned 13 about a month ago, she won't be able to drive for years and I do work pt out of the home making getting her there and back a challenge. The local uni is a little more flexible that they initially purported to be and might make an exception for an under 17 kid.

In any case, another option I've done some looking into is EEP/transition school @ the University of WA. It would require us to relocate the whole family, though. The director was very nice and helpful and dd does meet most of their entrance reqs. She'd need to retake the ACT this year and do a bit better on math, but she's there on everything else.

Has anyone had a kid do an early entrance college program? The real draw for dd of something like this is a peer group. She looked so wistful about the idea of having kids to work with on projects who are all as bright as her or moreso and who are motivated. Dd is not PG, but she is HG and unusually directed. She is, however, not a fast kid. She's very deep.

We don't have any experience with the program itself, but it has been put on the " options for future years " shelf for us as that is where we are retiring in 4 years (military) and hope to be there within the next year or so anyways. It sounds like a fabulous program. Everything i've read on it at least sounds great. Good luck figuring it all out.

We actually live about an hour and a half from DU, so that isn't a reasonable option if she was living at home. CSU in the northern part of the state is and I've spoken with them. Their official, on the books rule, is that you have to be 17 by day one of your freshman year, which dd wouldn't even make if she graduates "on time," but it sounded like they might be willing to make exceptions.

The appeal of UW's program is the built in support of a similar aged peer group and that dd's passion since she was 3 has been marine mammology and they have good undergrad programs in oceanography and marine biology. UW has been on her short list of college options for some time anyway.

Just to clarify, it isn't that she doesn't fit with college aged kids and needs same aged peers. It is more that she would love the opportunity to work in a true peer group where everyone in HG or so. College kids would be older and doing higher level work due to the age difference, but I get the feeling that she really longs for community of similarly able peers and she has never had that.

She did have one HG-PG friend in middle school and really misses going to school with her. To have a whole group like that would be a wonderful thing for her.

Just a poll, would many of you relocate an entire family 1000+ miles for something like this? New jobs, selling the house, new school for the younger child, pets...

My extended family thinks this idea is nuts and we should find a way to make her current high school work b/c we are teaching her to give up / quit when something is hard if she doesn't see it through.

I see that to a point, but we don't have a long history of cutting and running whenever the going gets tough. I've also gotten the insinuation that dd's loneliness is due to her being condescending and/or arrogant. While I will admit that she is ticked at some of the other kids with whom she's had to do some projects and vented about that at home, she's always been really well liked and I don't think that she is unusually full of herself or rude to people (other than immediate family -- she and dh don't get along well).

That is a difficult situation Cricket and I think there are so many variables that may be different for different people that it is hard to answer that question. I can say that I know I've done MANY things (being a stay at home parent, homeschool, etc,) that I sure never thought I'd never do. It is hard to say "never" until you've been in that situation. I would put little stock into your relatives comments about sticking it out though.

For me one of the key variables would be how bad the situation was for my child. If it was "gee could be more challenged" I wouldn't move for that. If it was "gee I wonder how she's going to make it through high school without self harm" then yes, I'd move for that.

In general I am somewhat wary of moving for a school because I've seen it not work out for some other families. Perhaps before you get too far into trying to think through the scenarios it would be good to go for a really thorough visit to the UW program. For sure I would really look at the curriculum and environment for the first year and make sure that's a good fit.

Perhaps this has already been discussed but would something like PEG or a high school boarding program be an option? In some ways that's less radical of a change and in some ways more of one.

I worry that we may be a bit closer to the second of your statements than the first, unfortunately, although she's being a trooper and trying. I am trying to get her to explore whether things may improve in future years if she does stay at this hs, though.

We will have to do that if we are willing to consider this. I believe that their scheduled visits are in January. I don't want to waste time visiting if we wouldn't consider moving, though, so I'm approaching from both ends... would we move and will this program fit. The director did say that they, too, expect about five hours of homework/night the first year, which is a drawback, but I don't know.

We've certainly thought about it. I'm feeling that, emotionally, it would be better for her to have me around for a few more years. She and I are very close and I think that she needs that stability to lean on right now.

I guess that part of me that is fighting having her home in high school (although I was quite on board with homeschooling her for part of elementary) is wanting that social experience for her in high school. She really had a pretty good social experience in middle school.

I worry that she will continue to be lonely with no real peer group if she is homeschooling or taking courses @ a community college rather than high school, for instance. We do have a homeschooling community here and I know people in that community but I don't know any right now who would meet that social/peer group need. There is a big leaning toward religious based homeschooling locally.

I personally wouldn't. Our house would be difficult to sell (long story). The set of grandparents who live with us would not want to move; nor does the other of their kids want to take them. The other set of grandparents owns their own house ~10 miles from us, and wouldn't move either. My professional license isn't old enough to get reciprocal licensing in any other state. My partner's job is in an industry that doesn't exist in most states (but I suspect she'd be very employable if we moved). No siblings or pets.

I would consider boarding school, or home school, or living with her aunt and uncle, or homeschooling, or renting (and one of us living in) an apartment in another district, or private school, or a gap year.

No, she definitely isn't getting her social needs met @ high school now. She didn't want to attend the assigned high school b/c it tended toward a lower SES group with a number of troubled kids doing things she didn't want to be around. The accelerated classes were/are also full of about 20-25% of the school population with the assumption that they all had the same needs. She just felt like she didn't fit, but there were a few really bright kids with whom she did have rapport.

The current school draws from a more educated, well off community. She and I hoped that she'd find more like minds there, but she doesn't seem to have. Again 20%+ of the kids are in pre-AP/accelerated classes and a lot of them seem to be entitled rich kids with poor work ethic. There doesn't seem to be any greater of a population of gifted kids either, unfortunately. She's lonely.

I was just thinking about this. She isn't a one in 1,000 kid. With a kid like her, I'd expect there to be at least a good sized handful of similarly able kids, yet she frequently winds up in a spot where she just seems a lot more "out there" than the large majority of the other kids in her peer group. I don't know why that is. It may be a personality thing as much as anything, but if I could find a way to find her a peer group of other HG kids, that would make all of the difference.

To answer the other questions that popped up while I was posting my last response, I wouldn't consider this if everything else about our current location were fairly satisfying. We do live in a nice community and it is a good place to raise kids. However, we are isolated.

Dh and I are both from the west coast originally. Our entire families live in CA, OR, and WA. Some of them we actually might not want to live closer to, but it is more "home" in some ways. We have lived here for the kids' entire lives, though.

The job market here is the most difficult I've ever found in any place I've ever lived. I am very unsatisfied with my work situation and am pretty sure that I'd have better career options in Seattle although it would be a huge adjustment to have me working ft out of the home, which I haven't done since dds were born.

Dh also has a very hard time with the weather here. He hates driving in snow and complains about it regularly.

That said, we've been in this house a very long time and it would be costly and hard to do all that is necessary to move.

Hi a quick note about the program in Seattle. We are also researching the program. We attended SENG this year and they had a panel with a few kids from the early entrance program. They seemed pretty happy. They accepted less than half of the people who applied last year. They want the students in at least Pre-calculus when they enter. My DD13 is pretty jazzed about the idea and it is what prompted her taking a college course this year...Test the waters... So far so good. We would also have to move, but we would not move solely for her and it would not be a career change or employer change for my DH. So it could really work for us but we are not making any decisions at this time. I do encourage a trial run with a college class to see how she takes to it. Good luck!

I am planning a move in 2 years. We were planning to do it in a few more years as the school starts in 7th grade, but now I am looking at combining a grade skip with the move and then having her apply to the school. It is the U of Toronto school, which a great gifted school, though probably cost about 20K a year.

I'm running out the door, but FWIW, that's not what the director told me when we spoke the other day. She said that the requirement is that they've completed at least Algebra I and that 6 of the 18 kids who were accepted into the program this year took a summer stretch program to get a little Algebra II and trig under their belts b/c they hadn't taken either yet.

What she told me what that most of the kids are coming in from middle school not high school b/c you can't turn 15 before the program starts. The first year in the transition school consists of a precalc class and physics along with other late high school classes preparing the kids to enter the mainstream uni population the next year. The kids who come in not ready to take precalc (so probably less than Algebra II completed) would likely take some classes through their summer stretch program to get caught up and ready to go in the fall.

The first year in transition school the kids are not in the uni classes. They are all taking classes together that first year.

Hey flower, just a quick note. Since the kids have to be under 15 to start this program, I assume that you are looking at next year as well. It sounds like our girls are close in age. Mine turned 13 about a month ago. Keep in touch if you wind up deciding to apply and I'll do the same. It would be nice to "know" someone if we wind up out there for a visit or if both kids actually do apply and get in!

Hi, yes we are looking at next year. Mine turns 14 at the beginning of next year. So it has to be next Sept or never... I guess I should not say never as they have the later early entrance program for juniors and seniors... There are a lot of programs in Seattle, but I have no idea how easy it is to get into those programs. One thing that I am finding in the college course with my DD is that she feels an extra pressure to prove that she can do it that kind of clamps her up. I am watching that pressure closely. The college class only recently started so I think some of it is normal. Its a wait and see kind of thing. One thing that I liked about the transition program was that it gave them a base to work from. Almost like a senior year in high school. It may give them a place to have a reunion. I do not have a high school diploma but did obtain higher education through being let in on merit. The one thing I have missed is the reunions later in life.

I think it would be great to stay in touch and see where things go. Good luck with it all.

I did speak w/ someone in the Seattle public schools to ask about those programs b/c we have a younger dd as well. My youngest is 2e with 99.9th percentile GAI on the WISC and very erratic achievement. They have two programs: Spectrum, which takes kids who scores in the 87th percentile + on the CogAT and APP, which takes kids who score in the 98th & 99th percentile on the CogAT. The Spectrum program is "space available" and teaches one grade up in most subjects. If they don't have space at your school, you are not guaranteed a spot, though. The APP program teaches two grades up in most subjects and is a guaranteed placement.

They, however, could not guarantee my youngest a spot in APP b/c she isn't necessarily needing two grades up in most subjects and isn't being taught that way right now. She is doing one grade subject acceleration in math. Their suggestion was to try for the Spectrum program in a lower performing school where there was space in it b/c there weren't tons of kids in the program. I'm not sure how I feel about that, but it doesn't sound like her IQ scores would guarantee her placement. They did say to send what we have if we get to the point of being sure we're coming and they can see what they'd likely do with her.

Great advice. We are doing the same here until we know where Mr W will end up.

We're not sure if we're going this route yet, but thank you very much for the further info. I have such mixed feelings about dd11. Part of my hesistancy in placing her in a program like Spectrum or a private school (other than cost there) that has lower cuts for GT placement is that she really isn't low level gifted. She has a definite HG+ side to her and programs like what she's in right now that are full of high achievers and kids who are probably btwn 1-2 SDs above the mean aren't full of peers for her.

Due to the 2e stuff and personality, she isn't like her sister and doesn't need massive amounts of academic acceleration but she does need peers and the ability to learn in a manner that honors her extreme strengths in abstract reasoning, out of box thinking, etc. Programs that are geared toward 87th percentile kids who are achieving highly enough to do one grade up work or private schools that take 120s type of IQ scores aren't really geared toward dd11 anymore than a std non-GT classroom.

Cricket,

In Colorado, you may enter your child in extracurricular activities even though he or she is homeschooled. They can be in band and other activities with their peers.

I am aware of that. We did that with dd13 when she was younger and we were homeschooling. The reasons we aren't homeschooling with dd11 right now have more to do with finances (my p/t job pays about 1/3 of our bills and has our family health insurance) and dd and I having some difficulty working together. Right now, dd11's school set up is working pretty well for her. It isn't perfect, but not bad.

It occurs to me that you are maybe referring to dd13. She really isn't a kid who does a lot of the school extracurriculars aside from drama in years past and honor society. Her extracurricular interests tend to be outside of the school realm: she's open water scuba certified, does some rock climbing, volunteers at an animal shelter, etc.

Flower, did your dd decide to apply to EEP or not? I think that we're going to pass b/c the move is just too much for us right now.

We're trying to figure out a way to make dd13's high school experience better. She's taking nine courses/semester with most of them being heavy academic subjects. One of the non-academics, photo, which was supposed to become speech in the spring, she traded out for a study hall, which should give her more free time to join some clubs, etc.

Switching to another local school doesn't seem to be a problem solver as they all seem to have the same approach of quantity=rigor and not enough intellectual peers for dd. There are some alternative high schools but their test scores are quite poor and a good chunk of the kids in those schools seem to be troubled, so not necessarily something we're willing to take a chance on.

Dd may just be in a wait and see spot where she's going to have to try to make where she's at work.

Your answer may be Mary Baldwin College's Program for Exceptionally Gifted. It is a women's college that offers a peer group of about 100 young women who have left high school to enter college. My daughter will graduate in May with her bachelors degree. It was a perfect fit for our family. It was residential so we did not all have to move to Virginia, it had a true peer group of young women her age and ability, and the was able to pursue her academic challenges. I can't say enough good things about this program!

Thanks. I am familiar w/ Mary Baldwin's program. I do understand that it is quite pricey. Did it wind up costing you a ton if you don't mind my asking?

Dd is quite set on a marine bio B.S. or something very similar. That, and uncertainty as to whether she really wants to be away from me full time, would be other things we'd have to consider. She is going to stick it out at her current high school for at least her sophomore year and then we can reevaluate if it still isn't working for her.

Hi Cricket.. I missed this..We also did not apply. DD did not make the cut on the ACT that was required. I think that she does better on the SAT and she is going to take that in May but she also was less interested after her course at the local university. We made a mistake by putting her in a class that had a lot of discussion about issues that DD has convictions and thoughts but no real first hand experience. (Single parenting, poverty etc.) She felt that she could not talk up against grown women who were either single parents or had received food stamps etc. We are going to try a local gifted program within a high school for her in the fall. Many of the students have really enjoyed the teachers. Have you decided for the fall yet?

Dd didn't take the SAT or ACT at all this year, so I have no idea how she would have done. It has been a pretty high stress year, unfortunately. She's doing a couple summer programs through universities that I hope she'll like and is going to stick it out at the same high school for next year at least b/c we don't have any better options.

There are no programs here like you mention your dd doing next year. GT is really a moot point by high school b/c it makes no difference in placement; anyone can take the pre-AP/AP/IB classes and there are no GT classes or programs.

If she's still unhappy by the end of next year, I don't know what we'll do. I did request info from PEG with that as a possibility in the back of my mind. I don't know if she'll want to go that route or something else.

Thats amazing that anyone can take those classes. You pretty much have to be in the GT program to access those classes easily. Not for math but for social studies and sciences. This program allows them to take an AP social studies and AP Biology class in tenth grade. You can't do that without the program...So we will see if it does as it says it does on paper. If nothing else it has a bunch of 98% and above kids grouped together. Dd's ACT scores were completely backwards to her SAT scores. She got an 80% in the math, I do not remember the number as we needed 85% but her reading was lower than her last years SAT score in percentile. Not sure what happened if anything. She easily gets off on numbers and filling in the right letter choice...not sure if that occurred or it was a bad test for her... who knows at this point. What is PEG and is that at the same university as the early entrance program? Good luck!

No PEG is at Mary Baldwin College: http://www.mbc.edu/early_college/peg/

When I talked to them, they said that they are generally looking for around a 27 composite on the ACT.