Can anyone think of any reasons why a student should not take AP Physics C before AP Chemistry if they haven't had a full high school level course in either?

It is my recollection/experience that you don't need to know chemistry to learn physics at either the high school or college level. My suspicions are that Chemistry usually precede physics because it is not as intellectually challenging for most people plus obviously you need a lot less math (only up to Algebra 2 vs. Calculus) at the AP level.

Prerequisites. AP physics in our school is needed before taking either

None that I’m aware of- math is the limiting factor here, which is why most kids opt for chem earlier (our school makes it nearly impossible to accelerate so unless you have transferred from elsewhere during early high school you are usually stuck in the district sequence). But there are some kids every year who do take physics first, mailnly those who are considering it for a major. Here, physics C is done at the same time as regular AP physics, all in one course for those who choose that class.

Though we're homeschooling, and not really checking ourselves against AP syllabi, I will note that one of ours, who is much better in math than in language arts, is on track to doing the high school science sequence basically backwards: physics, chemistry, biology. Currently, physics is in parallel with alg II/trig, for that one. And if we're still in high school by then, and need/want another science course, there might be more physics after the first year of calculus.

Based on our recent experience, I would say there is little overlap between AP Physics C and AP Chem, and I doubt that the order in which they are taken would make much difference. My twins are both hs seniors, currently taking AP Chem.

They did not actually take AP Physics C (not offered at their school) but self-studied and took the tests last spring (and got 5s). It should be noted that there are two separate AP Physics C (C is for Calculus) tests - Mechanics and Electricity & Magnetism. (Both twins had completed Calc 3 before studying for the tests, and had already taken 1 and 2 years, respectively, of hs Physics. Preparing for the Mechanics exam was a breeze, but self-studying E&M was painful.)

They also had one year of non-honors intro hs Chem as sophomores, i.e., before taking AP Chem. They both find AP Chem pretty easy, and at our parent-teacher conference last week, the Chem teacher said they are having an easy time b/c of their *strong math foundation* and didn't mention physics at all as a factor. That said, note that there is no calculus in AP Chem.

They did do a unit on physical chemistry, but I think that is easily managed without taking AP Physics C.

@amylou Did your twins take AP Bio yet? My son plans to take AP Chem, AP Bio and AP World History next year. I have read somewhere that Bio and Chem together would be difficult but this year he is taking AP Calc BC, AP Comp Sci A and AP Physics 1 and is not having any problems at all. He is quite strong in math. Thanks

Hi @ruazkaz - No, they have not done AP Bio yet, BUT one is taking second semester AP Bio in spring semester, along with AP Chem (AND honors Physics at the nearby state flagship). I didn't even know one could take the second semester of AP Bio without the first....

Science is popular at our house....

Ruazkaz, I suspect that would work out fine, though it really depends on the workload of your particular courses, Matieral-wise I don’t think any of them are super-tough. Here, the lab requirements would make scheduling both sciences tough, but we know a kid who took AP chem and AP world and self-studied AP bio last year, and it went fine. Also a consideration, here AP world is a considerable amount of work time-wise (a lot of required writing assignments, research, etc that one cant get out of, so a huge time-suck-) but that seems to be teacher/school dependent.

In our local high school, there is a very practical reason not to take AP Physics before 12th grade. AP Physics requires a number of group projects, and the vast majority of students in the class are seniors. They stop caring about school after 1st semester.

Any junior taking the class would likely see poor grades on group projects, affecting his/her GPA during a critical year.

I can't think of any reason - the two subjects have very little overlap, if any. Calculus at least concurrent with Physics is about the only limiting thing I can think of. Calc isn't needed for AP Chem, which may be why most folks take it first.

Ironically my daughter's Chemistry teacher agrees that the science sequence should be physics chemistry biology. Many kids in my daughters biology class last year dropped the honors biology and ended up this year back in the honors chemistry.

DS has a classmate who is taking AP Physic 2 (non-calculus version) this year and will take AP Physics C next year. That doesn't make sense to me and seems like a fair amount of repetition.

DS will likely follow AP Physics C with AP Chem junior year and AP Bio Senior year. It makes more sense in terms of science competitions given his interests and relative strengths.

Amylou, that was very helpful! Do you think a non-AP high school Physics (or Chemistry) course is a necessary prerequisite for the AP equivalent? Both DS and DD are skipping GT Chem and GT Physics partly because those AP courses are double periods (so presumably slow enough) and they can only take eight courses a year.

Fortunately, there will be plenty of juniors and at least one other sophomore in DS' AP Physics C class next year. Otherwise, he will likely just take over the project as he sometimes does when he is stuck with slackers due to bad luck or lack of choice.

DS will have completed Calculus AB but will be taking Calculus BC concurrently. I am assuming that Calculus BC concurrently would not be an issue.

I suppose you don't really need biology for chemistry or physics although I always thought it was the easiest of the three.

It does sound like a lot of repetition, but that is built in to a lot of the hs curriculum, at least around here. It’s how they are able to offer advanced and AP level work to anyone who wants to take it. But repetition certainly varies by class- here kids take calc BC right after what they call “pre-calc”- there is no point in taking AB because the material is all covered in the pre-calc and AP BC course, unless kids need a slower pace/less material and that repetition.
It seems if one is not comfortable following the typical school progression, one really needs to look at specific details of each class and subject (and that’s probably why deviating from the standard path is strongly discouraged here- they make it really difficult to switch stuff around and are inflexible with someone not fitting into their pathway- because it creates extra work and responsibilities, and it’s easier to just force kids to do repetitive or lower level work than try to figure out whether they can skip stuff. (This is certainly influenced by a couple kids per year who end up requiring extensive tutoring after skipping ahead anyway- the teachers are very patient but it must be super-frustrating for them to essentially teach the skipped course material one-on-one every day after school...and they probably forget all about the ones who are able to do it successfully). There must be an easier way...

Incidentally, I don't think I would have encouraged DS and DD to skip GT Chemistry and GT Physics if the three most accepted AP science courses weren't double periods. Their schedule only allows 8 courses and with their magnet program and instrumental music class on top of the standard English, math, social studies and foreign language, there is just enough room for one double period science each year.

Regarding calculus, I think the reasons students take AB follow by BC is because here the prior math sequences are watered down and because mostly juniors take AB, followed by BC their senior year. In my day, Pre-Calculus was one semester junior year and Calculus AB was the second semester junior year while Calculus BC was senior year. In my kids' district, college-bound students must take four years of high school math in high school. Kids like DS (finishing Calculus BC sophomore year)and DD (finishing Calculus BC junior year) will end up taking one or two math courses at a local college.

We have the same issue with not enough periods in the day. But here, both and honors and AP sciences are all one period plus a second period every other day. It certainly limits how much kids can take. There are lots of kids here who choose taking AP science over music or art, because kids can’t fit all those things in. We really debated about skipping the honors courses, but in the end the heavy workload scared me off- our kids already spend way too much time on homework, so we opted for the traditional path. Hence the repetition, and they won’t have APs in all the sciences. I love that our school tries to equal the playing field for all students, but I believe it ends up hurting the most advanced kids.