I'm still going back and forth on this one. I will be working full time once DD turns two in January (right now I work part-time away from home and part-time at home). Anyways, we'll be moving and there will be a lot of changes for DD (one of which is that the language of the country will change). Our initial thought is to start her in a daycare because we found one close to where we'll be working where many of the professors send their kids (we're academics). The one we found looks lovely online that is (we won't have a chance to tour it before we have to sign up DD). It has all kids from 0-3 combined together with a very large outdoors play area and tons of activities for kids. Plus they have a 1 to 4 worker to student ratio and all of the workers either have a degree in early childhood education or are students in it. It does have strange hours, though, which means its hours/cost would not be any different than if we sent her to a preschool.

There are some bi-lingual Montessori schools nearby (although quite a bit farther from our work than the daycare) and I keep wondering if we should go that route instead? At most we can just call these places and look at the pictures on their websites so I'm pretty nervous about it all (we don't have someone locally who could tour them for us). My gut tells me that a Montessori environment would be great for her but it's the unknown of it that bothers me (we don't know anyone whose kids are at these schools and we at least know one professor personally whose children have gone to that daycare).

Now, we can always wait a hear and start her when she turns 3, which is the tentative plan now, but it might be harder to get a spot.

Any thoughts? Anything you'd look for in particular at the schools/daycares?

Oh... and as for DD. She seems to be a pretty smart kid but most of the things she's doing are in English (her sight words, she counts in English, colors, shapes, letters etc.) so maybe since the daycare is in her second language it would even the playing field more? She was in daycare a couple of months this summer in her third language and that went well but it was only for a short time, she was speaking significantly less, and there were much older kids there (up to age 12).

How many kids would be expected to be older than your 2 year old once school starts?

Starting over in a second language buys you some time, so that is a good thing. You have a community there - that's good too. Do you have to sign up for the whole year? Is it worth it to try 2 days at one place and 3 days at another?

Some Montessori are terrific for some kids, and others, not so much.

Can you take a visiting trip before you enroll? It might make a big difference.

One last idea - playdates and your own social life. It's always nice to meet the kids who have local parents to become friends with at your new location. Even though I'm sure you have many friends from 'pre-child' days, it seems helpful to have some friends who have kids who are going through somewhat similar things to what you are going through.

Smiles, and best Wishes,
Grinity

thanks for the good questions! I always find good stuff to chew on when I post here.


That's something I'm thinking of having DH call again and ask to see exactly what the age distribution is. Most kids start some sort of school between 2-4 so I am slightly worried that it could favor younger kids. Then again one of schools we're looking at for elementary school wouldn't start preschool until 3+.



That's what I'm hoping for. We would have to sign her up for a semester i.e. 6 months and we'd need to do it now since the spots fill up fairly quickly. So we wouldn't be able to try it out ahead of time.

She actually does understand the language pretty well, though, but she just doesn't speak it nearly to the same extent as English. She used to be about equal with both languages but she's had a language explosion recently and will speak in 5-6 word sentences in English and sometimes just in single words and up to the most 3 word sentences in the other language (but with a more limited vocabulary).

We will visit ahead of time once to set up the apt and other odds and ends but unfortunately it will just be a couple weeks ahead time since we'll already be in the country visiting relatives (different city). The tickets are $1000+ each so we can't afford trips too often.


I worry too about that because I know some Montessori schools are very strict on how you can use the materials and I just don't see that flying well with DD who does a lot of pretend play.



Oh, that's definitely part of the plan! We're trying to move to a neighborhood that does have a number of Americans so in case we don't send her to a bilingual school she can still get English exposure. We actually do know 2 families (both our bilingual families like ours) there already with young children although they live pretty far away from where we plan on moving to.

Um, you may want to find out
a) how many children are older AND
b) how many children are speaking 3 word sentences or more.

I would just call every school and find out how many kids in each classroom that she would be in are speaking 3 word sentences or more. I think that you are kidding yourself about the amount of 2nd language she isn't getting. I don't remember my milestones, but at her age in her 2nd language she is probably ahead of other kids in their solo language.

Don't mean to be a wet banket - basically you have to look for the 'least worst' option, and if needed you can change in 6 months.
Is hiring a nanny a possibility?

Sigh,
Grinity

We lucked out with a preschool near a University. Against all odds more than half of the other students were at least MG. At the same time, I caution you that the value of the experience was largely the result of the teachers, and their attitudes. In our case, the head teacher brought in articles on giftedness to the first parent/teacher conference. She was amazing, but she was not the teacher when we signed up for the school. She was the replacement. Teachers change.

The next preschool we dealt with had a solid reputation, and was very organized, clean and had great resources. Unfortunately, along with organization and structure came an unwillingess to accept variances between children. That one was a multi-age situation, and it didn't work for us. My children tolerated it, at best.

The stated educational philosophy was very similar at both schools. Grinity is right, try to find the least-bad option. I'd add to make your best decision, but understand that things change as often as the head teacher changes.

I second the additional language as a cushion. It was our one saving grace when enrolling DD for an Immersion program.

Is that really that far out of the norm? I thought 2 year olds normally spoke in 2-3 word sentences? She'll be 2 in 3 months...


I've talked to DH about this and it would probably be my preference (financially it wouldn't be an issue). However, he's really against it because we won't have time to interview someone ahead of time and wants child care lined up immediately. There is a possibility that MIL could stay with us for a bit when we first get there which would be by far my preference (she's wonderful with DD) but we won't know for sure if that is remotely an option for another few weeks.


I know there is one school that is pretty close to where we will live that seems to do well with giftedness (or at least is known to do grade skipping and has an active gifted program). It's the school where all the celebrities/diplomats send their kids. However, it's twice the price of all other privates and, hence, double the amount we could afford. Plus, there is no financial aid available.

But I definitely get a lot hinges on the teacher. That's one reason that it drives me nuts that we can't visit ahead of time!


I remember you positing about her school... did she have prior experience in that language before?

Over two years ago we had to pull Mr W(2y9mos) out of his daycare when he was 4 mos old.

We found a nanny and a great one at that in less than a week - She was a retired pharmacist and her husband was a surgeon. And though Mr W has moved on to Pre-K, Mrs E is still a major part of his life. They have a special bond. She is major reason he is bilingual. She comes by once a week and he is learning to read in her language.

I'd go with the MIL to buy you more time to look at alternatives.

When Mr W moved on from his nanny, we looked at a lot of schools. The so-called "best" places were not suitable at all for a kid like him. He knew his alphabet at 18 mos and was starting to read. When we walked into the toddler rooms, there were no letters, no books, few toys, etc. It was essentially a prison.

We put ourselves in his shoes and ignored the hype.

We kept looking and found a great Montessori with a flexible staff and director who mixed kids by ability not age and most of the kids are pretty bright anyway.

We did not specifically state Mr W's abilities, or our needs, but asked questions to test whether the staff were rigid thinkers or open and flexible and really looked at the kids. We figured we could reason with the latter.

Within two days of Mr W attending, they knew he was very advanced and asked is if we knew. Today I caught the director watching Mr W reading.

She told me they have added a new set of elementary classes and have two five year olds in with the Grades 1-3 and it was working out fine. I know what she was thinking - moving Mr W up. I've seen the classrooms for these new classes. ( I think Mr W would be fine in there come Spring once he matures a bit more.)

You need fertile ground to plant the seed. The more fertile the better. Find that fertile ground by looking for it!!

--

You need to visit the school.

As for "gifted," I'd go visit the classrooms your child would be in as well as the classrooms one and two steps beyond. And watch the kids. For us, it was an eye opener. The kids Mr W's age looked drugged in comparison.

And when we took Mr W and let him visit each classroom, it was fun to watch the staff's reactions. When Mr W was 18 mos old, we were getting the guided tour of the school and he was in the 4-5 year olds' class putting a 40 piece puzzle

I enjoy this board immensely for the opportunity it gives me to hear from people so much more informed than myself.

However, I have noticed that people seem to speak of "Montessori" schools with no distinction made as to whether the school is AMI, AMS, or not credentialed at all. This makes a HUGE difference. I have visited Montessori schools that are probably safe daycare environments, but I wouldn't rely on them to educate my dog.

In the US, most good Montessori schools start at age 3. Some do have programs for younger children, but it's rare. I think in Europe it's more common to have something called a creche for younger children. I don't know anything about that.

The most typical Montessori classroom is children ages 3-6 and the traditional curriculum covers 3-12, grouped 3-6 and 6-12. I think it is important to point this out, as your child will not be 3.

My children have attended three Montessori schools and I have toured and considered four others. In my experience the AMI schools (I've seen two) are excellent. The AMS schools are mixed (I've seen two - excellent and mediocre) and the non-credentialed schools (I've seen three) are not very good. I would much rather send my kids to a high quality non-Montessori school, than a school that uses the label but has untrained teachers and a mish-mosh of the Montessori materials.

So if you haven't already, I would advise you to research the Montessori schools with this in mind.

If you move in January, couldn't you sign up for the daycare for January - summer and then re-evaluate for fall? If your daughter turns 2 in January she will not be that close to the upper age limit at the daycare.

Also - don't forget to consider the value of your convenience. If your commute to daycare is shorter, that's more quality time with your daughter. If the daycare has longer hours, that's less stress for the family if you have a project to finish with a deadline on occasion.

I guess my main point is that your daughter is not old enough for school. Just because something is called a "school" doesn't make it superior to a high quality daycare populated by professors' children.

I agree with JaneSmith in that most people lump Montessori schools together and they are not all the same.

Couple of things I've noticed when I was researching them:
1. Here in our area they start at 18 months, not 3 years. So what Jane talks about sounds more regional. And this is all types of Montessori schools in our area.
2. We have ALOT of Montessori schools that are not certified but pretend to be. When you ask about it they go into a spill about all their teachers are, but when pushed on that not all of their teachers have the same type of cert. When I kept pushing they would finally admit that they were not certified but usually with an added comment about how it is in the works, yet some of the schools I called had been open for a long time.

So yes... They are not all the same.

We live blocks from a major university and had this experience with both our kid's preschools. They were very used to having gifted kids through their doors. It was never really said, but hind sight, it was quite obvious. I guess I wouldn't count on it, but you might be pleasantly surprised. Where professors send their kids might be a good endorsement for you. I'd just be sure to keep all your options open as you go into it in case you need to make a change. ]

Good luck!

Are you even getting a week off to move into your new home before you are back at work full time? I smell a rat. Tell DH that he has "Champagne Tastes on a Beer Budget" because yes it would be great to have your DD in a daycare that suits her and she loves and thrives in site-unseen (humor alert) but no, you aren't some magical being that grants wishes to husbands. Reality alert. Reality alert. You and your DH are expecting way too much of you.

Hopefully your MIL will come and bail you out or you can skype interview nannys. Maybe your local friends have some leads? If your mom gut is telling you that moving and DD starting school and mom going back to work full time is too much all at once - believe yourself, and heed your warning. ((Unless you are a proven overworrier, in which case you should ask a mom you trust if you are biting off more than a person can be expected to do. If you ask me - yes, yes, yes.))

Of course, if the university preschool that is nearby will let you pay by the week, and you don't have to commit to the full semester, then there is no harm in signing up and hoping for the best. It might be fine, or at least fine for a while. What worrys me it that in our idealism, we Gifted Moms sometimes think that we can do it all, with not much raw materials, perfectly.

((shrugs and more shrugs))
Grinity

I don't know what the official developmental chart expect or language development, but I do know that bilingual kids are expected to be slow, not faster. I think I remember that my (PG)son had his first 2 word sentence right on his 2nd birthday: "I Runded!" So cute! But my guess is that there is a big difference between 5 words in one language and 3 in another, and 2 words in a solo

This was our experience. The university based preschool was a fit on paper, but the teacher was not. In the end, we see our DD thriving with a particular teacher rather than a particular program.

DD is in a modest program with a warm, insightful, seasoned teacher, who took DD into the pre-K program when she was less than 2.5. The pre-K class size is small (6-8), and the teacher has a daily toddler program, so she understood DD's mind and nervous system.

For us, the teacher made all the difference.

This has been my experience too. Hanni's preschool is right next to campus, and in her room at least half the kids have parents who are professors or computer geeks. The next room up has two kids of colleagues in my own department!

We'd really love to but, unfortunately, having her come is completely out of our control. We will found out soon whether or not it's possible but at the moment we really can't say one way or another.

Knowing where we're moving to it's very unlikely that we'll be able to find an educated nanny. It's still a developing country so many people are just not educated at that level. That's not saying we couldn't find someone wonderful but it might mean that DD could run them raged (as she already does with our young, fairly well-educated babysitter right now!!).


What kind of questions did you ask??? That would be really helpful!


The school we're looking at doesn't have separate classrooms by age (that's actually a big preference for us since DD's done very well in a similar daycare situation this summer). It stops after kids get to 4 as do almost all schools here. Now if we went the preschool route we could get a preschool that is attached to a school but those are more segregated by age and don't tend to bump kids up to the next level (from my understanding at least).

Visiting would definitely help... but again, it's the problem of schools filling up while we're not there. We arrive right at the beginning of the semester so it's right when everyone will be starting preschool too.

Unfortunately, as far as I can tell the Montessori schools don't have any sort of accreditation there and are not associated with any particular group so it's really hard to tell...

The daycare idea is what we're thinking of at the moment because it would buy us some time in this regards but it also has the problem that if it's a bad fit we'll be stuck with it for half a year.

What we've been seeing from the schools is that many will pick up your kid from your house and take your child to school. The daycare does that too. Although the daycare is the closest and we're not sure if we want to use the pick up option...

kimck, seablue, and Meg that's really encouraging. Our hope is that there we'll be other kids close to DD's level (or in that language at least). She actually does really well with play with other kids but she's never been in an environment when she's been around kids in her age group for an entire day 5 times a week so it's so hard to say how she'll react.

I really doubt we could do the skype thing... it's a developing country and so we might be hard pressed to find someone who knows how to use skype (DH's family is pretty well educated and they have a hard time using it!).

Our local friends don't live that close to where we'll be living. One family has kids that are quite a bit older and the other uses their family to babysit (very, very common there, most people live in walking distance of relatives).

On the other hand, it could be that my start date for work is pushed back a bit just with all the complications of getting my work visa etc. So if that is the case this will all be a mute point. There are so many things that depend on other little things that it's made this whole move hard to plan!!

FWIW, DH actually complains that I normally don't worry enough about things.

That's a good point about being bilingual. I think it's easy for me to get stuck in our own family's microcosm and forget stuff like that. Today DD just started skip counting (in English) and she's not even two yet so I know must be deluding myself at some level.

Skip counting before age 2!!!!! ((giggle))
Luck for you intelligence doesn't depend on educational level - in a way it's easier to find highly intelligent people to do daycare in a society where education is rare. Ask the local friends, everyone has cousins, even if they aren't right were you are living.

I'm thinking the University daycare is actually a good possiblity due to the open age thing, although by my calculation, there is only a single year of headroom, yes? (if they leave when they turn 4)

I love the idea of pick up service. That would have been heaven for me!

I also hope that things all 'fall into place' with MIL and work visa. Sometimes the Universe is on your side!

love and more Love,
Grinity

I don't know... maybe it was just a fluke? She had some ice cubes in a bowl and she was counting them today "two.. four..pause...eight". I thought it was just an accident at first but then she did it again.



Definitely! Education level is just one thing to consider when hiring someone definitely not the be all end all.



Yeah, we're only looking for something that last about a year. Once she turns 3 we'll probably put her in a preschool that is associated with a school because that is the easiest entry point for some of the schools we're looking at there. Obviously, there's a lot of disclaimers with that statement since we have to visit the schools, she where she's at etc. etc. Homeschooling is illegal there after age 6 (although that might change to age 4) so we're really hoping to find a good school we can stick with but we shall see!

Oh, and the transporation thing is really cool but we want to check it out first and she what it's like before we sign up for it.

Thanks I hope so this time.

We'd let them get into their spiel, then wait for an opening.

"What is your approach to moving kids from one level to the other?"

Bad Reponse: "Our program is the best in the area and kids develop at the same rate so we use age."
Good Response:"We don't have a fixed criteria. We leave it up to the teachers and parents and kids to make that decision. We see some kids move up fast, others not so fast."

"What are some challenges you face with different levels of ability?"

Bad Response:"All our kids are bright, so we have very little issues." ( A bit later she free associated about a 5 year old with 10 year old math skills and how they did not know what to do with him as he was socially a baby. Can you say Aspie!!)
Good response:"Some kids are more advanced than others and it varies in both intellectual and social skills. Our teachers try to make things interesting for all the kids. It can be hard."

"Have you had some disagreements with parents and how did you handle it?"

Bad Reponse:"Oh, we rarely have any issues."
Good Reponse:"We have cameras in every room and we use these to resolve questions about what the kids have done. I try to talk to parents one on one and then get the other side of the story as well. If I cannot resolve it, I'll get my supervisor to help or sometimes the PTA can help out."

"What are the biggest reasons kids leave?"

Bad Response:"The parents don't see the value in what we are doing."

Good response:"Lots of reasons - moves, finances, etc. But most of our kids just go onto Kindergarten."


We looked for someone who was going to listen to us, saw the kids as humans and individuals, and who lived in the real world.

Thanks Austin for those questions!!!

We actually called a Montessori school today and both of us feel like it would be an amazing fit. The director spoke to DH a long time on the phone today explaining everything in detail (she also discussed the methodology quite a bit with him since he's not as familiar with it). We asked a lot of Austin's questions and were quite please with the responses.

Basically, they said that the first month they would evaluate here and if the 0-3 group was not a good fit they'd be happy to move her up (he got the impression that that wasn't too uncommon). If at any time she outgrew the group they'd also be willing to move her up later on too. Also they are flexible about providing more advanced activities in subject areas (like math, for instance). The director put a lot of emphasis on trying to go at the child's own pace.

Another selling point for us is that they are much more flexible with starting dates (you just have to make a deposit and can start whenever you want without paying ahead) and you can pay monthly so if it doesn't work out it's not like we're stuck there the whole year. The biggest problem is that it's really far from our work and is more expensive (although the hours are better) so it's something we have to think about still.

Looking ahead long term it seems that there are some private gifted schools that DH wants to check out (basically you need to get 95%+ on an IQ test, not sure what one..) and they would be closer to home but don't start until elementary school. The Montessori also has an elementary school so if we liked it she could continue there too.

It looks like MIL *might* be able to help out for awhile so that will buy us some time! We still have to iron out the details but it looks like we'll probably have a chance to visit the places first. (insert HUGE sigh of relief)

Yippee! Great news! Go MIL!

Great news!