Ya, I know i overthink things...

I was at the dentist today with dd (26.5 months) and the hygenist and dentist kept talking about her "loads of promise" etc. They were surprised that she followed directions and understood everything. I was so proud of her (I always am!), but then I started thinking...seriously can't other 2 year olds open there mouth when someone asks them to? Or look at the picture of dinosaur brushing his teeth on the wall, when told about it? The hygenist couldn't believe that my daughter told me she wanted to sit "on the fuzzy, purple chair" and then asked me where I wanted to sit.

I guess I am just having a major gifted denial moment...so much so that saying gifted denial sounds like I am bragging and admitting that she is gifted.

It is time for me to choose, or not choose a preschool for the Fall as they are filling up fast, so I have been thinking about everything a lot. I don't want to hold her back if she requires stimulation. If she is gifted do I choose a different environment...blablabla A lot of internal debates going on, and this is resulting in me overalanyzing everything!

Oh the weird looks and I can't believe she followed directions. I remember I took my DD to an eye doctor back when she was around 9 mths old. The doctor was shocked at how well she followed instructions and how much information he could get from her eyes without dilating them. His comment was something along the lines of I have been doing this for many years and have never seen a baby that followed instructions and looked straight ahead when asked and not blink and ... it went on and on but he was shocked. So now at 28 mths she absolutely can follow directions but also hold a complete conversation about why she needs to do what is asked. So I would probably be the same way with why is that so abnormal for a two year old? Then, we have the typical two year old routine of dropping a block under her play table this morning and me directing her with where it is "The block is under the table." DD looking under the other table. Me."No, under your play table." DD going to the other end of the table to look under. Me. "No DD it is right behind you turn around look down...No turn around look at the window...no the window." As you can imagine that went on for a while and just reminding me she is still a two year old. So typical two year olds do not follow instructions. (And footnote... the kiddo has been sick so probably why instructions were in one ear out the other this morning.)But it is funny sad how I just expect that my instructions should be so easy to follow and here I am getting frustrated b/c she was not getting it. May be a sign that mommy expects too much.

Just go and observe and believe what your gut tells you. If you actually think she needs stimulation, as in having a lot of adults pointing to her and being all amazed, and having other kids here age 'not talking to her' because they can't yet talk, or don't understand the words she uses.....

If you find the right place, then sure, it could be great, but perhaps a retiree who could give one-to-one attention might be a better fit, yes?

Why do we always think that we aren't enough?

((shrug))
Grinity

My story is always the one where my midwife said to DS7, who was then 3yo, that "Mommy has a baby in her belly" in her most condescending voice.

DS looked skeptical and concerned, looked at me as if to say "You're trusting her?" then turned back to the midwife to say, "No, she has a baby in her uterus!"

The poor woman just about fell down.

I just LOVE that story!

As for pre-K, no pre-K is better than the wrong one. But a good one can be fun for the child and a nice break for mom. Trust your gut!

My son used to read all of the signs, everywhere we went. Inevitably the questions would come from anyone who heard him. "How old is he"? always came first. I guess people wanted to know if he was a dwarf or something. I've tried several different tactics with dealing with peoples interest, surprise etc. but the response is generally the same. You must be tying them down and stuffing their head while no one is looking....Shame on you. My son is 6 now and gets a kick out of these situations. He'll see me struggling with my latest tactic amd start adressing me about Pascal's triangle or some other fact he pulls out. This is generally when these adults make their exits, presumably out of fear that this small person will ask them next.

I know a few people that just take the smile and nod approach and I've tried that a few times as well. We shouldn't be embarrassed to talk about how amazing these kids are, but ND adults somehow think you are attacking their children with unfair comparisons. Even if their children aren't with them!

I think we should come up with some catchy phrase and make t-shirts up for all the parents of the GT kid. It should say something like Aptitude has no Age Criteria OR They can't learn it if their brain was not developed enough to absorb it. I know someone can come up with a better shorter phrase but still we should wear the shirts out in public for all the stares and out in out accusations we get.

And we should put some website link on the back of the shirt that the general public can go to so they can educate themselves on the GT kid.

Good luck with the preschool search. Also, don't assume an "academic" preschool will be a perfect fit. Makes sense that it might, but I've found those schools more likely to repetitively teach skills your child either knows or will learn rapidly, so that the kids can look good for K.

Most G kids will be in great shape in terms of K expectations without doing anything out of the ordinary, anyway.

I'd go play based if I had to go back and do it again.

We went to a bunch of trial days at several different pre-schools. I talked to my son alot about what he liked and didn't. We collectively made a choice and it worked out well. The staff was very supportive of his needs and allowed him to do things outside of the "norm" during free play.

He knew most of what was being taught, but I think in some ways it reassured him. He got to help the other kids with their letters etc and he enjoyed it.

Most pre schools will allow you to bring you child in for an hour or two to observe and "test drive" their program. You can learn alot by observing the other kids.

Whatever you choose, Good Luck!!

Ditto! Half-day play-based in a mixed age class (where he was the youngest) worked well for us. If you have a child who doesn't do well with agemates, I could see play-based being a challenge if there weren't some older kids in there. But my DS7 is still friends with one boy he met n pre-K when he was 3. The boy is a year older and MG, and it is a nice fit.

ROTF LMAO!

I'm so glad to read this thread... I'm in exactly the same boat. Sometimes when I feel sassy I say DD 24 mos. is really 6 years old because she was conceived 5 years before she was born, but then I have to go on to explain she was a frozen embryo, etc.

We are also looking into preschools and daycares for the fall. DD is on the waiting list for the one at the university where DH works - fingers are crossed because that one would be purrrrrrfect for our little kitten. We stopped by a month ago to see where we were on the wait list and DD excitedly grabbed the hand of a passer-by and took her on a narrated tour of the place (DD led the tour and narrated even though she'd not been there before). The passer-by happened to be the director. Hello! DD has been on the waiting list since before she was born. It's overwhelming to shop around beyond that but I've started.

To answer the original question, NO. the average two year old does not follow directions so well, carry on conversations and respond to a doctor's office visit that way.

As for the question of preschool, I would suggest going to see two or three different places. Ask to observe for about an hour. Don't take your daughter. Watch the other kids and see if there are any you feel are acting and talking like she does. Get a feel for whether your daughter would be happy with the activities they do there, the schedule they follow, etc. Don't worry about whether they teach gifted kids there. She's young. She's got lots of time and lots to learn. She'll absorb and learn from her environment whether it is formally taught or not. The important thing at this age, IMHO, is that the kid is happy because she fits in and the adults understand and like her.

Good luck in your search as well as coping with the GT denial!

I laughed when I saw this thread title!

We have dd2y8m at my sister's while I work, I had considered a couple of preschools but she is really well matched with her cousin (2.25) who is learning her numbers super fast and has a massive vocab.; my sister is teaching them their abc's, some light reading, taking them to library time, etc.
(It's the gt "preschool" .5 miles from my house, lol! seriously, we are very very lucky!!!!)

In regards to "can't most two year olds do this? "...
We just had dd in her first pre-dance class the other night!!
I am just so thrilled with being able to get her in; ds8 takes ballet at the same school, and dd has been Obsessed (yes with a capital O) with nutcracker, ballet, etc., for the last year or year and a half. The director of the academy suggested dd could start so we decided to give it a whirl.

I think her passion for ballet is not 'typical' for a 2 year old, but it's certainly not something you see on a milestone chart, e.g.: "Able to name the various parts of certain ballets " dd: "- ooh, this is where the toymakers come out", or "this is where the military doll comes out, I think." (while listening on the radio).
Dh was asking about a part of the Nutcracker, and we ended up asking dd what part it was, lol! Or, another good one for the charts: "can balance on tip-toe while pirouetting or perform most of the toymaker choreography or dances parts of carmen, or just free dances very expressively". At what age is that supposed to be 'normal'?
Ah well.

Anyway, she did well in class, there were only two other girls in the class ages 3 and 4, and she did better than both in finding her 'spot' when called back to attention, *not* sucking on her skirt, staring at the ceiling, etc. Her level of focus was pretty amazing, her ability to follow direction just as good if not better than the others, so we will continue with classes.

At her last dr's visit she was asked if she could pee in a cup, and at first she said no, but when she saw it was an official plastic wrapped cup with a green lid (!!), she was all about peeing in that thing. She watched the dr carefully when did the ph strip dip and they discussed which colors would be good to get. At first she was rooting for 'red', but then found out from him that red was not very good to have in this particular case! The dr think's she's a blast.

I loved reading about your DD and ballet. Our DD (turned 29 mth today Yea!) loves ballet too. She has been taking a ballet/tap class since she turned two and is very much in love with it and has to act out certain steps for me as well as instruct me on what to do. We took our DD to the nutcracker over the holidays and she LOVED it. I had called the ballet to find out how old the child should be and they suggested no younger than 3 but that should also be able to sit through the show. And when I told the mothers of the other girls in class that I would be taking her they were shocked b/c they could never believe that a 2 year old would sit still through the show. We had a lot of older girls in our section and many were speaking loudly and not really focusing on the show. But our DD was entranced and when a section of the performance was finished she would let out her breath she had clearly been holding and start clapping with so much energy. Now if she hears the music she instantly knows it is the nutcracker...clearly NOT to the level your DD does. Very impressive indeed. Our ballet is suppose to be performing Cinderella during Mother's Day. I am really thinking about taking her to see it.

Wow! It is great to hear about another 2 going nuts over nutcracker!
We received a video when ds performed last year, so that has certainly helped cement her knowledge of the various parts. Also, just for fun this year we found the Barishnikov made-for-tv Nutcracker on dvd at the library, it was gorgeous and instead of being horrified at the differences between what she already knew and this new version, dd was really intrigued and set to learning the new choreography.
(Granted she is far from really getting through most steps perfectly but there are parts where she holds her arms 'just right' or puts the perfect emphasis on the right foot movement at the right time, so I think something is going on...)

Cinderella is coming up for us too, more than likely we will go see it. Maybe we are right around the corner from each other!

DH found some short videos on youtube, there is one in particular which was really stunning, if I get the name of the ballerina I will post back...but a lot of them are worth checking out if you just search ballet, cinderella

It is really funny to DH and me that 10 years ago, if we'd thought about ever being this interested in ballet or even feeling like we were beginning to 'get' it, we would have both been just rofl! It is not something we in any way set out to have our kids get so deep into. Turns out, it is really fun, and so much more 'approachable' than I ever imagined.

Of course, becoming a dancer is such a long shot for either of them, my only realistic hope is that ballet will be a source of deep enjoyment for them both throughout their lives and not some far off distant, snobby pursuit.
Have fun at Cinderella if you go!

Oh I wish you lived right around the corner than we could get our two DD together for play dates, but unless you live in the Austin, Texas area I doubt that would work out. Here's to wishing. But it is funny that your ballet is doing the same show. Maybe for the most part there is a formula they follow of what performances attract the most attendance and that you get more people in the seats if you do something the whole family will enjoy.

I do have to say that we had a little recital right before Christmas for the class to perform for the parents. I guess they know that at age 2 there is no guarantee they will follow through. Though my DD was not the one that completely withdrew and finally went crying to her parents (her mom says she has major anxieties and that is why they put her in the class. She is actually the oldest in the group in the best by far) My DD was the deer caught in headlights. She just stood there staring at all the parents making idiots out of ourselves trying to get them to do the routine. My DH said she was being entertained by us. She is our shy kid that for ever would talk your ear off at home but out in public clam up. She has gotten better but definitely not a ham.

This thread reminded me of when DD4 was not quite 2.5 - she had fallen out of her "big girl" bed and broken her collarbone, so we had to take her to the ER. Two weeks later at a follow-up visit to our family clinic, our doctor asked her, "Did you hurt your arm?" My kid responded with, "No, I broke my clavicle. Can I still go on the waterslide?" He was pretty speechless. :-)

Along those lines, does anyone else find themselves in an awkward position when your kid says anything out of the ordinary? Once, at a friend's birthday party, my DD-then-not-quite 2 said, "I'm full. Can I be excused?" in completely non-little-kid articulation. One of the other moms looked at me and said, "Must be nice to be a teacher and have all that time in the summer to work with your kid." As if I drilled language development with my toddler! I never know how to respond to that stuff....

So funny. Old Navy had shirts a few years ago that said, "My kid's a genius." I wore it, but then it was weird when DS would do something extraordinary and folks would notice the shirt and think I was some sort of snob - rather than someone with a sense of humor!

Hi Jen

I think that the only way to handle this is to name it and adress the underlying thought =

"I find that comment offensive. Is this always how you are going to react when my child does something better than yours? I want friends who can celebrate each other's children." or

there is the jokey approach: "Where is that Mom score card when I need it? Do I get to move ahead three squares?"

Then you can see how it goes from there, but be ready for either - with an all purpose: 'I feel insecure about my parenting sometimes, I really love my kid and so want to do the best I can.'

Since it's much easier to think these things up during unemotional times, practice and journal some sample conversations that might bug you and have a few responses ready.
Sounds like you'll need them!

How about: "The doctors told me that there might be some strange side effects to those drugs."
or "I think her real parents will be returning for her soon."
or "Yes, we give her candy every time she acts polite."

Actually, I don't really reccomend saying anything that you wouldn't want your DD to overhear, but having snappy comments in my mind is a comfort.

Smiles,
Grinity

LOL Kriston, I really like this story

Living in a foreign country has the advantage that nobody understood the long and complex sentences of DD.I only got positive comments on how clear her diction was. At the same time, when I said that she was very advanced in her speech nobody really believed me ...

LOL! I think Isa just gave us the answer to ride under the radar. I say we all move to foreign countries that speak another language. Of course how long we can stay really depends on how fast our kids pick up the language. 6 mths, 1 yr? sigh. really thought that was it!

But momofgtboys the Old Navy shirt story is funny. I remember those shirts. How dare it actually be true!

Gasp!

That's a direct hit.

Sorry their feelings of guilt got in the way of their brains. Shame on them.

Katelyn's mom: The answer to your question is within 6 months depending on age. My family moved to Germany when I was 11 and within 6 months I was acing the tests and speaking fluently. They discontinued German lessons after 6 weeks. So I think a different solution is in order. Maybe a 51st state just for GT families?????

See ... I knew I didn't have it. So what state should we take some land from? I vote Rhode Island.

My DS8 said something like that at his age 3 checkup. We had just moved and it was his first visit with a new pediatrician. The doctor said, "I'm just going to use this little flashlight to look in your ear." DS looked at it and exclaimed, "Hey, that's an otoscope!"

The doc loved it. He is completely cool and is our all-time favorite doctor.

Val

I used to think that quite often. I couldn't even use milestone charts, because I always thought I was looking at the wrong one. Admittedly, my Kid-o-meter is off. In fact, it's still screwy, even now with my kids almost 5y and just turned 3y. I get myself in trouble sometimes by sharing stories that I think are "safe".

DD 25 mos. had her 2 year check up today. The paper handed to us had the following milestones on it:

Your toddler may be able to:

- Open doors, throw a ball overhand and climb stairs.
- Speak about 20-50 words.
- Speak in 2-3 word sentences.
- Stack 5 or 6 blocks.
- Copy adults fairly accurately.
- Repeat what mom, dad and others say.
- Tend not to like to share.

Does this list blow your mind?

As we were leaving, a grandmother freaked out when I said she was 2. Her grandson isn't speaking yet at 23 mos. and she had observed them playing together. Over the weekend the same thing happened when DD was a flower girl with a 23 m.o. girl - everyone was certain they were a full year apart.

seablue, I've been through the same thing with DD3. Sometimes it can be a bit embarrassing when you're in the waiting room with a child the same age or at a gathering with another same-age child. I guess I don't mean to be embarrassed, because I'm very proud of DD, but it has made me cringe when she'd do something clearly not-so-typical for her age in front of a lot of people with similar-aged children.
I'm trying to learn that I can be proud of her even in front of other people without looking boastful or snobby. There's a fine line and it's a hard one to balance.
I just took DD3 to her 3-yr check-up and the milestone evaluation questions kind of made me chuckle, but when I pictured my DB answering the questions about his DD3, I could see how the questions were appropriate in her case. Then again, I thought something was wrong with my niece for the longest time. Oops, she's okay, ND.

On our 1 year checkup two weeks ago they did not even give us a list like they did at 9 mos as "it would be pointless". We recently took Mr W to a local daycare and he went around the room doing the puzzles and playing with all the toys. The teacher stopped talking several times to watch him. The items on the list they gave us for the Toddlers to move up to the 2 year olds he had already done. I took him into the 2-3 year old room and then the 3-4 year old room and the latter he seemed more interested in.

Last night I took him for a walk and showed him the moon and venus. Tonight I asked him to show me the Moon and Venus and he found both and pointed them out to me.

Gratified - you're right, I know. Not all babies develop evenly and certainly not all GT children show their GTness immediately.

Another thing from today's 2 year check up... our regular, amazing, stupendous, insightful and otherwise incredible pediatrician was not available. His sub asked, "Does she have a lot of tantrums?" I said no, not many. She said, "Oh so she's an easy child," I said no, not easy (blank stare from the ped) "she's got incredible energy," I explained. This seemed an unfathomable complaint to the ped.

Thank goodness my regular ped commented a month ago, "Your DD is going to wear you out" after he saw her recent milestone advances. I really appreciate his being understanding of our [happy] challenges.

I am glad to read all of your stories...thanks for sharing! I guess sometimes I just wonder why a two year old can't memorize facts when they are shown/told. At christmas my dd (she was 2y2m) took a bite of her round cracker and told my aunt that she made a crecent moon. My aunt was so impresed, but honestly is that weird? I mean we showed her a cresent moon in the shy and now she knows cresent, quarter and full moons (we haven't done waning/waxing, or first quarter/last quarter!). It's really very simple...they look totally different and it is as simple as learning "cat" or "dog" isn't it? I guess I just don't understand why all kids can't learn things like that. Is it just that they aren't shown?

I can see the vast difference just in my two girls. My older who is more advanced academically - was a completely fluid reader and an excellent writer by age 5 barely said a word until she was two. My younger who was carrying on conversations with adults by 13 months is still struggling to read and can barely write at almost six. Frankly I think some of it is just physical as opposed to mental development and it is hard to judge which is which at such a young age.

I have had similar comments by people that really don't know me well, but I don't at all act defensive. I typically respond in a matter of fact way, or comical way. Like I would call them on it and say "what do you mean? do you think I do flashcards with her all day?...you must not know me because I am not one of those crazy moms" Or you could pull the whole "I am off for the summer, we spend time outside and by the pool." Or since I am very sarcastic I could easily pull of one of those "yes I started flashcards while she was in the womb and I drill her for about 2 hours per day...I am determined for my child to be the brightest and the best." Depending on my audience, I may chuckle at the end of this statement....or I may give them a deadpan stare so they are slightly concerned. I will admit, it is kind of fun to watch peoples responses...because everyone who knows me knows I am nothing like that.

I used to wonder that, too. If a child can learn "belly," why can't he learn "uterus?"

But I suspect some of it has to do with the interest level as well as the memory. Most 2yos just don't care about the phases of the moon, even if shown them. You know? And they're unlikely to remember them even if you show them because it's just not part of their (relatively small) world view. If it's not in their immediate vicinity and relevant to their lives RIGHT NOW, it's not something they need. So it doesn't stick.

My personal experience with very young GT kids tells me that they tend to just be more open to seeing more of the world and making sense of it. They think bigger. I think ND kids just don't have the cognitive ability to make sense of those patterns of meaning yet because their world views are more limited. They just don't have anywhere to "hang" their experiences from yet, so they just sort of wash over them.

That's utterly unscientific, but it's how I think about it. It makes sense to me.

I agree with Kriston. MY DS had had nightmares since he was tiny about things that the ND child would never fathom. We have to wait till he goes to bed to watch the news because he stresses over everything.

This is very perceptive.

When Mr W was 6 mos old, we took him to Muir Woods and he was enraptured by the trees. He would not stop looking up and smiling. He kept looking at us to see how we saw things, too.

There is a German word for being possessed by a god and I cannot recall what it is. Its like all these GT kids are "Touched" in a sense.

I stopped reularly watching TV a long time ago. I do not see how people can watch it and stay sane. The parade of insanity, intellectual passivity, intolerance, violence against the weak, and cliches would drown any sensitive mind. The majority of the focus is on eliciting an emotional reaction and a sensitive person just takes it too much.

One of my favorite examples of the inanity is "Murder She Wrote."

"This is a very nice town." the protagonist would say.

If true, then why do people get killed on every show in your nice town, lady!?!? Death follows you like like the Grim Reaper. Your town is the murder capital of the world!! And you make your living off blood money!!

Just about every variety show and news program is a one minute country and western song crammed into the 30 minues or two hours.

I sometimes like to watch "news" shows with the sound turned off but with CC on. The body language and facial expressions is sometimes out of phase with the CC - especially the so-called experts. Its like watching a Japanese movie dubbed in English.

My anxiety arises out of the disparity between body language, the spoken words, and the action depicted.

Austin, I think you're describing hypervigilance.

I do it, too, although I don't have any history of trauma in my life, maybe you don't either. I think some of us are just wired to take in a huge amount of information at once. Hyper-vigilance goes hand in hand with difficulty falling asleep, which is a major problem I have, too.

In my humble opinion, some HG kids have a capacity to receive much more sensory input than a child is equipped to process. I think (just a guess here) that's why so many HG kids have hyper-sensitivities. (P.S. I do not have hyper-sensitivities and I'm not HG.)

I attended a fascinating brain symposium in Seattle a couple years ago that described how the cerebral cortex (oh, I think I got that right) retains memories for seven years. During that time, the memory bounces all over the cortex - the skin of the brain kind of like an apple skin - and is bumped and shaped by each new experience until, at the end of seven years, the memory is deposited into a non-malleable memory vault. So our experiences may be reframed over years' time. If something traumatic happens to us, for example, what happens over the next 7 years helps to shape how that experience affects us in the long run.

Boy, did I get off on a tangent?

Austin,
You may be interested in the discussion about TV on the Gifted Exchange Blog.
http://giftedexchange.blogspot.com/

Sorry to reanimate a dead thread, but my DS4 just came home with an "Important Milestones by the End of 5 Years (60 Months)" paper. The ones that seem (to me) to be most shocking for a GT crowd are:

Can count 10 objects
Correctly names at least 4 colors
Knows about things used every day in the home (money, food, appliances)
Speaks sentences of more than 5 words
Uses future tense
Draws person with body
Prints some letters
Aware of gender

Just a little GT denial nudge for anyone who needs it...

Yes, of course. But the point is that you don't need to be concerned at this level. It's fine. It's within normal range. I think that is worth noting for those who are thinking "Don't all kids add and subtract at 2yo.?"

LOL! Yes, and you're not alone in that. That's actually why I thought I should post this.

These are NOT the "You should be worried" markers; these are the "If your child can do this, s/he's fine" indicators. Pretty eye-opening, I think...

LOL ... okay I don't think I am that bad with don't all kids add and subtract at 2 yrs. but I have to admit up to her reading words and adding and subtracting I really didn't see DD as abnormal just the milestones being off. It was when she started the reading and adding and subtracting that I finally accepted she is different. Everything else including amazing verbal I could justify. Of course she is able to speak that way ... I was the crazy mom who talked to her none stop, etc.

(Me, standing) Hi, I am a recovering GT denialist. I have been in the program for 5 months.

LOL!

In light of the thread about drawing and all the detail some of our kids are including, I thought the "draws person with a body" was pretty interesting, too. Some are WAY above the minimum there, and at an age significantly younger than 5!

I've always read the "your child should be able to do this by now" list from the perspective of "Be really worried if your child can't do this" - because DS6 was always ahead - so they usually make me laugh - as above, "should read 10 words" - and you stand there thinking "huh - reading 10 books more like it"!

Hope my adding to "dead threads" just helps any new comers seeking out specific topics of interest - oh and I think it was Katelyn's mom, not Dazed and Confused that was out here a few weeks ago questinoing whether she was buying too many things for her child? Been there. Sounds like we've maybe sucked you back from denial KM?