Hi everyone Obviously I realise this is an internet message board and no one will be able to actually assess my son for giftedness. Having said that, I was wondering if any of this stuff sounds like your kids? Or is this all typical kid stuff?
My son is currently 4yrs 11 months and has never had any formal schooling. He's in preschool but it is completely play based. He was always a few weeks to a few months ahead in early milestones as a baby.
I wouldn't say he's super advanced in maths and reading, he is at around about a 7yo reading level according to most internet reading level tests. He LOVES numbers, does addition and subtraction and understands multiplication (hasn't memorised times tables or anything) and simple fractions. I don't push these things at all besides reading to him a lot, and I have bought him a set of maths manipulatives and I do help him with them when he asks. He gets VERY excited about using them and is constantly wanting me to ask him maths questions. He does have a reading eggs (online reading program) membership, but uses it maybe twice a month for half an hour to an hour.
He writes (sentences) reasonably well for his age, but spells words very phonetically. (Eg paper = papr, orange = oranj) and hasn't mastered punctuation beyond full stops.
Although he's not particularly ahead in these tangible things, what makes me really wonder about him is his insatiable quest for knowledge, and the way he makes connections between topics. I'm bombarded with questions throughout the day, it's like his mind is constantly ticking over, and I'm frankly exhausted by the end of the day.
Example questions: Why do things that are far away look like they're moving slowly when things up close look like they're moving fast when we are in the car?
What happens inside a lock when you insert the key and turn?
How did we evolve to become bipedal? And did the birds come from T. Rex type dinosaurs because T. Rexes were bipedal and birds like emus are bipedal?
Does Jupiter have the most gravity because it is the biggest planet in our solar system? What about the giant planet that doesn't have a sun (rogue planet)?
These types of questions just keep on coming all day long, and each question will spawn more and more questions. I'm constantly googling and looking for youtube videos.
From his fish dying when he was 3, he extrapolated by himself that we would die and that he himself would die one day. He is quite anxious and can get preoccupied with death/injury. He is very intense, sensitive and energetic. He has an amazing imagination and spends a lot of the day "in character" as a dragon or griffon or whatever he's interested in at that moment. He has a phenomenal memory and can remember events from years ago and describe them in great detail.
I have to remind myself that he's still 4 sometimes, because my expectations on his behaviour can be way too high due to the way he talks and relates. I've been able to reason with him and use logical explanations from a very early age. He can be very emotional and very much 4 at times, and like a small adult at other times. We can be having an in depth discussion about something complex and then he'll make a poo or fart joke and think it's the funniest thing on earth.
I've felt like there's something different about him from birth.
Ok this has turned into an essay! I'm interested to hear your opinions and won't be offended one way or the other. I was tested as gifted as a child and it made for a difficult time at school, so I wouldn't be offended to hear that he sounds typical.
Making connections and asking questions like that is highly suspicious. I don't usually say this, but I think you might be in for an interesting time at school.
The book A Parent's Guide to Gifted Children may also be of interest and help you prepare for what may lie ahead. Among other topics, Dr. Webb et al speak of existential issues and the gifted.
The spelling of certain words (e.g. "realise") indicates you may be outside the United States?
Update - here is a link to a brief roundup of links describing common behavior characteristics, traits, and early milestones which may indicate giftedness in infants, toddlers, preschoolers, young children. (This list may be especially useful before IQ test scores tend to stabilize, around 8 years old.)
Hi there! My 4.25yo daughter is just the same imaginative (she spends the day being superheroes or doctors or lately, she's been a cat pretty frequently), VERY inquisitive and she makes connections that shock me. She understands the concept of death and get suddenly terrified at the idea that she might lose my husband or I. She LOVES math, everything has to be a pattern and she will stay up until 11PM reading "secretly" in her room!
She's been ahead since day one and forgetting she's 4 is pretty much an everyday thing (until the tantrums start & I forget she isn't really the 6 or 7 year old I think she is most of the time)...
I can't answer your gifted question, obviously, but I can say that you aren't alone!
That's odd. I thought I posted an answer, but I can't find it. Anyway, to the question "Does my child sound potentially gifted?" I answer simply and directly "Yes."
Welcome, and I agree with previous posters; if I were you I would be thinking about the future on the basis that it's highly likely this child is gifted and will need to be educated accordingly. Do you have education options you're happy with? Many of us find ourselves with some processing to do of our own feelings about our less-than-optimal education at this stage, but maybe you're luckier! If you haven't come across an article called "What a child doesn't learn" (can't easily do links from my phone, but Google the title), that's a good thought-provoker.
Seems like "gifted" to me. I agree with others that it's the curiosity and making connections that seems key.
We didn't test for IQ until 6 1/2 because we wanted a good chance at a stable result.
Also agree that an appropriate educational environment is key. I think learning style and intellect are important. For instance, my DS does well in a Montessori environment because it tends to be self paced, and he is an organized, competitive, self starter. We have friends with kids of similar intellect who thrive in accelerated, traditional classrooms.
We looked, not only at acceleration, but curriculum. I wanted a Singapore math program because it tends to be visual and (I think) extremely analytical. I wanted a reading and language program that is engaging and teaches strong, quality writing. Whatever profession DS pursues in the future, he will need to be a critical thinker with advanced writing/presentation skills. To me, it's just a "given."
I'm guessing kiwi with a name like that! If so def get in touch with NZ assoc for gifted, has lots of resources and can recommend testers if you decide to go down that path. I'm def no expert but he sounds well ahead of my dd4.1 and she's 90% through her testing, assessor has already told us to prepare for the worst! just joking.
Thanks everyone! I posted an update in the "testing" section with his full scores, but forgot to update this post. He took the SB-5 and results were below a technically gifted FSIQ. He was sick at the time of testing, and there's quite a wide spread in his results so I think we will re-test in a couple of years, and seek out a school with facilities for extension anyway.
Thanks for that. I feel like his results are kind of ambiguous. The psychologist said that we could comfortably call him gifted, but that he didn't quite reach that "magic" 130 in the FSIQ so I'm a bit reluctant to. She said her feeling was that his result would likely be higher should we retest when he is a little older, as the areas he performed (relatively) poorly on were ones that tend to improve with life experience and schooling, and he hadn't had any formal schooling or been to long daycare at the time of testing. He's also very risk-averse, and she said he refused to even attempt any questions or activities he wasn't 100% sure on.
He's also very risk-averse, and she said he refused to even attempt any questions or activities he wasn't 100% sure on.
This may be a sign of developing a fixed mindset rather than a growth mindset. You may wish to read the book Mindset by Carol Dweck. One aspect or application is that gifted kids may stop taking appropriate risks in order to always be "right" or always be "smart" or never be "wrong", and this may work against them. The concept is nicely summarized in these youtube videos: Ashley Merryman & Po Bronson: The Myth of Praise (link- ) Teaching a Growth Mindset (link- )
You may also wish to read up on perfectionism. A book which seems to understand perfectionism very well and which many find supportive is "What To Do When Good Enough Isn't Good Enough". Another book you might like is "Perfectionism: What's Bad About Being Too Good". While insightful, these are written gently for kids, in a style that is fun and engaging. With any of these books it may be wise for a parent to pre-read and decide if it seems to be a helpful tool to use in guiding their child.
Thanks for the recommendations. It's definitely something I'm constantly working on with him, and I'm grateful for any resources. I was a gifted child myself and very much a perfectionist, and I feel it was a real problem. To be honest, I'm now 32 and still struggle with this trait at times, so I'd love to help him avoid it!
Parents often learn a lot about themselves while raising their gifted children, and may experience significant insight and healing of old wounds (which were previously not acknowledged/understood). Enjoy the books and youtube clips.
It can be painful remembering things you hoped not to have deal with again.
Can you get your child to try new things? I took my over eneregetic 4 year old son to ballet so he had to work outside his comfort zone. I dropped the ball once he went to school though - my memory is of having to do a range of things- so now at 7 he won't do new stuff.
Yes, that's a great idea. My parents were very good at this and sent me off on all sorts of activities, and independent adventures as I got older. It didn't cure me of my perfectionist traits, but it definitely helped. I have actually just recently signed my son up to ballet as well. It's not an activity that plays to his strengths, so I think it'll be good to help him learn to work at and enjoy something he's not naturally good at.
Looking at the SB-5 results, I noticed that something called "Knowledge" was his lowest score by a mile in both categories, and that you'd said you'd been a laid-back parent with regards to early education (and lest you think that anything that follows here is a criticism of that, let me jump ahead in here by saying I feel that's a great approach for that age). I'm no expert on that test by any means, but I wondered if "Knowledge" measured crystallized knowledge, whereas the "Fluid Reasoning" scores (which were very high) measured things any child would have to figure out. That would suggest to me that the Knowledge sections are largely influenced by how much exposure he's had to formal education, which you've indicated is very little. The scores on other sections would seem to me to be more predictive of his ability to absorb crystallized knowledge, given more opportunities.
It would seem to confirm my suspicions. Vocabulary can be influenced by reading together and how the parents speak, but it still comes down to exposure. We all modify our vocabulary choices when we speak to children, but we "dumb it down" to different degrees. And for procedural knowledge... well, that's just not going to be there if someone hasn't shown the child the procedures.
My unprofessional analysis is that, assuming an appropriate educational placement that can meet him at his natural pace, this child would shoot past most of his peers at crystallized knowledge in very short order, and you'll never see an FSIQ that low again.
Yes. And Absurdities, which is the nonverbal knowledge subtest, is heavily culture/experience dependent.
I've also had personal communications from Dr. Nancy Robinson, who was a consultant on the SBV, in addition to being one of the seminal researchers in gifted ed and radical acceleration, expressing her disappointment with the end product of the SBV development process. Especially the Absurdities subtest. I think the Robinson Center still uses/accepts it, but it didn't live up to the design intent.
Thanks for the input. The psychologist who administered the test said essentially the same thing, that she felt the (relatively) low score in that area was likely to reflect his lack of formal education/life experience so far, and that she would expect that he would likely score higher overall should we retest in a couple of years. She showed me a couple of examples of the questions he couldn't answer, and, while I don't think they were conceptually too difficult for him, they involved some concrete knowledge of objects and experiences he simply doesn't have at this stage. I definitely see why he did poorly in that area.
It might be worth looking into visual spatial thinkers. Those sub scores were high and personally I believe there are some challenges for people with advanced visual spatial abilities. http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/visual-spatial.htm
Thanks for the link, very useful and informative. Some of it definitely rings true, it'll be interesting to see how he goes when he starts kindergarten in January.
Haha yes, although I have to say, even though my son's tested results were lower than the norm around here, he still seems to have a LOT of the tricky personality traits common in more highly gifted kids, so it's probably no guarantee against that aspect at least. I just realised a few days ago that (as far as I can assess at home) he's suddenly now reading and comprehending chapter books around a third grade level with 5 months to go until he starts kindergarten. He has just turned 5 so it's not that unusual in and of itself, it's more the pace of improvement without formal instruction that surprised me. It'll be interesting to see how kindergarten goes. Hopefully the social aspects will keep him busy, and writing is not really his strong point (very perfectionist so it's frustrating for him) so there's something for him to work on there.
