The title says it all-- inspired by an open-house group piano lesson DS2.7 and I attended yesterday, he has asked to take guitar lessons.

We have a reputable local music school that offers lessons to children as young as 3, and I believe lessons can be as short as 15 or 20 minutes weekly. DS attentively sat through a 30 minute group piano lesson on Sunday, but began to goof around the 20-minute mark. He can sit for literally hours to read book after book, so attention span isn't a concern so long as the interest is there. We could potentially register for lessons starting in September. I only studied privately starting at 8, so I have no first-hand experience with music instruction for very young children.

What is your experience with exposing your young children to private music instruction early? Does it feed a broader love of music? Is the emphasis on enjoyment rather than skills acquisition at that age? How does the asynchrony between mental and physical abilities play out? Is this an endeavour better saved for a year or two down the line, when emotional and physical maturity catch up somewhat to the brain?

Regardless of whether we go the guitar lesson route, DS will be signed up for a group music and movement class for 45 minutes each week. I'm not in a rush to put him in lessons--and I wouldn't have actively considered the option absent his request. My initial instinct is to wait a month and see how strong this interest is, as registration doesn't begin until mid-summer. If DS isn't consistently enthusiastic, I'm inclined to wait until the next session, when he'll be 3.25, to reevaluate.

His hands are too small for guitar at this point, and it seems rather young to start formal lessons. You could buy the family a ukulele to play with (much smaller), and a method book.

My youngest asked for piano lessons at 3. He went for about 6 months for 20 minute lessons, but the teacher asked us to stop because his hands were too small and he was having trouble with holding his hands in the correct position while pushing down the keys. He could pick out songs with two fingers but not play correctly.

I'd personally to do "Sure, honey, we'll look into it..." and then drop it unless he continues to beg. I wouldn't recommend guitar that young for the coordination, size issues.

We had to talk the instructor into taking our DD at 6, though he was quite pleased with how well she was picking things up. The teaching focused primarily on basic skills acquisition, though he did try to tailor it to our DD's interests in order to make it fun for her. For example, he asked her to bring in a CD of a song she liked, and after listening a bit, he translated part of it into something she could play.

Here are our lessons learned:

1) Instrument quality matters. The child will not practice if it's going to sound bad no matter what she does. That creates a problem... how much are you willing to spend on a hobby that your child, at this age, is very likely to set aside after three weeks? If you know enough about guitars that you can accurately diagnose most basic problems, no worries (which I guess you can, given that you said you studied privately starting at 8). Otherwise, I suggest you find someone who can to go with you to pick out an instrument.

2) Size matters. My DD set aside her guitar for months when she thought she couldn't play the top strings. In this case, the guitar was properly sized for her, and she just needed a grip adjustment. But what's the market like for guitars correctly sized for 2.5yos? And wouldn't they likely be of poor quality?

I like the ukelele solution suggested earlier. Otherwise, drums and keyboards are good for budding 2.5yo rockers. In your place, I'd let your DS know the guitar is in his future if he still wants it, once his hands grow into it.

Well, others have nicely covered the physical limitations associated with physiology and the age of your child.

I'll add, though, something that you no doubt already know-- though IF you don't, I guess I am saying it now. Even in fairly $$ instruments, half-size instruments just plain aren't as good acoustically. Ever, pretty much. Quarter size exacerbates that set of problems.

I'm not even sure that a Uke would be a good choice for most 3yo-- my DD is 14 and very long-fingered, and her concert Uke is about the right size for her hands (which are otherwise XS).


It depends on the child and the teacher-- we couldn't FIND anyone that would take our then-3yo for piano. (We didn't want Suzuki)


Maybe?? I'm not sure-- it's a chicken-egg thing on some level.


I would think so-- developmentally, that seems most appropriate but it likely depends on how asynchronous emotional development is.

In that case, though, I might look for a KinderMusic class (or something structured like one) intended to provide a music foundation (rhythm, meter, mood, beat, counting, etc.) to 3-5yo. We found that to be a not-horrible fit for DD at nearly-three. She was the youngest in the class, and the most able (by far), but it worked for her, and she had fun.


Yes, in our experience-- frustration tolerance is likely to improve radically in a year or two, as will the physical strength, hand size and coordination needed.

DD started formal piano lessons immediately before her 6th birthday-- and she was young enough physically that the instrument, and serious study of it, have shaped her physiology somewhat, just as you see with athletes that commit to a sport very young.

She had begged for lessons from the time she was 14 months old. Really. I'm glad that we kept music of all kinds playing in our home, played musical and singing games, I taught her some theory using fun games and a soprano recorder, etc.

I'll just chime in on the topic of physical limitations by noting that practicing an instrument when your body is not sized correctly or strong enough for the instrument can create bad habits, and even injury.

At that age, we listened to lots of recordings and live concerts, we played for them so they could see proper technique (piano, in this case), and we sang or played rhythm instruments together. And make sure any instruments you have around the house are in tune, because there are few things more painful for a musical child than having perfect pitch tuned to the wrong reference pitches.

It seems like I'm in the minority here. I don't think it'd hurt to give it a try as long as his instrument is properly sized.

When I looked into it, the smallest fractional guitar I could find was 1/4 and it was sized for 4-6 year olds. Does his school have smaller guitars for younger students?

These are all great comments, and I appreciate the feedback. Thank you everyone!

At a minimum, I think it's worth my calling the conservatory for sizing recommendations to see if there are good quality instruments available in his size and receive cost estimates. He already takes weekly group music classes, so his teacher can put me in touch with be early childhood staff.

From brief Internet research, some decent manufacturers scale classical guitars down to 1/8 size, and Fenders scale to 1/4. I don't have deep knowledge around guitars, so I'm going to consult a teacher at the conservatory to discuss brand quality. DS specifically asked to learn electric guitar, because he "wants to learn to play the Beatles' music", which mitigates the acoustic quality issue. When I checked sizing guides, he is on the low end of the recommended height range for 1/4 guitars, which are typically sized for 4-6 year olds. He has big hands, wears shoes sized for 5-year-olds, and is above the 90%ile for height for age, so I'm fairly confident putting outer bounds on starting guitar at 4 based on sizing considerations.

If we hold off on guitar until next year or the year after, I love Dude's suggestion about drums! You know my boy well, Dude; he thinks Dave Grohl is amazing.

Mana, I specifically had you in mind with this thread. If you're comfortable, I'd love to hear more about your DD's experience with her classes, either on the thread or by PM. I think there is a strong case to be made on both sides, and it largely comes down to matching the right child with the right teacher when the child can reasonably physically handle the instrument.

Love this thread. We went through the exact same thing when our son was 2 3/4. He wanted an electric guitar like his Daddy's. (I was secretly hoping for Suzuki cello.) On a side note, at this point he had been playing on a drum kit since 2 and sometimes on his Mama's kit. Super passionate about music since he could talk.

Now, electric guitars. The problem with 1/4 size electric guitars is there is no truss rod so they are very difficult to tune. We tried a couple at a local music store and as soon as my husband tuned it it went out. Through lots of reviews I found one on Amazon for around $120. If you're interested I can look it up. Also, a 1/4 size electric guitar is VERY HEAVY for a little dude, but somehow they manage!

We tried a few lessons but it's hard for little fingers! What we ended up doing was putting a stand in his room with an amp, microphone (my DH and I have gear) and his little drum kit and he could jam out whenever he wanted. Between 2 3/4 to 5 he played a lot of drums and guitar. Wrote a lot of songs. We do Family Jams every Sunday morning still. I highly recommend noise canceling headphones if you get drums. He would sit at his kit and sing super loud while jamming out! He started formal piano lessons at 5 and I think because we backed off and let him mess around we timed it perfectly. He has become very serious about piano, but is now learning chords on his guitar. It's so much easier now that he can read music!

We go to a lot of local music shows and in store performances where he gets to meet local musicians. Very empowering!

Have fun! Your adventure is just beginning,

I highly recommend noise canceling headphones if you get drums.

QFT!!



Um... drums for anyone in the family, actually.

There are also electronic kits that are way quiet-- and can be routed through headphones during practice, or an amp for performance.

~Wife to a hobby-level drummer.

On the other hand, drums cannot easily be played out of tune.

I agree with everyone else, I would wait and see. But if you are going to start a preschooler on guitar I would not start one on an electric guitar. I took guitar when I was a high school and it takes a while of practice to get get the calluses that make it comfortable to play. I wouldn't even start him on a steel string but a nylon string guitar. We had until recently a decent child's nylon string guitar, for elementary kids that my son took lessons on for a while when he was 8. It takes a lot of practice and sore fingers to get used to holding the frets down, particularly on the steal strings on a eclectic guitar. I would suggest this even for an older child. What you learn on a acoustic guitar does translate to electric.

Most Beatles music can be played on an acoustic guitar.

But HK, the best part about playing drums is playing LOUD! It just feels good! There's something amazingly cathartic about just pounding hard to a really great song.

I think it's actually great therapy for anyone. My kid is lucky that I get it, but I also close his door! Now that I'm a parent with a kid who talks nonstop all day long I can't hack as much noise as I used to!

Do you play music with your husband? That's how I met mine...

Not a chance-- we could hardly BE further apart in terms of our musical styles (in terms of playing, I mean-- he plays jazz, Latin, and rock, and I'm a Celtic, folk, and up-to-late-Baroque music specialist). Luckily, we both like a LOT of different kinds of music. I've teased him that he need only fear Jordi Savall, otherwise my loyalty is secure. For a pair of scientists, though, we have a LOT of musical instruments in our house, and a lot of artsy stuff in our lives. I'm a big believer in the arts making a person "whole."

Bluemagic I see your point about electric, but my little guy has not had any problems with his electric and he's quite proficient with it at 6 1/2. The cool thing with an electric at this age, and younger, is they can experiment with the sound. Throw in a pedal and some feedback with an amp and they are hooked.

My son wanted to play The Avett Brothers on guitar at 4. We open tuned his electric and he could strum and sing to any of their songs. Very happy guy. We have a lot of guitars at our house. Classical, acoustic and electric. If we had forced him to try classical he wouldn't have loved it and would have stopped playing. It totally depends on your kid. If we had listened to everyone else we would have waited for piano until after 6. We started at 5 and he's already at an intermediate level loving Bach and Mozart. Go with whatever they want to do at 2.7 and you'll have a happy kid. Oh, and hand drums are also a must. We have bongos, a djembe, shakers, tambourines, make your own instruments!

Experiment and have fun! Can you tell we love music at our house?

That's great information, DrummerLiz! So glad you shared! I adore the idea of a family jam session!!! What kind of songs does your DS write? That kind of stuff should go in the ultimate brag thread!

If you'd be willing to dig up the guitar model, I'd be much obliged. $120 is definitely a reasonable price for our budget. Also, good tip re: tuning.

I'd LOVE for DS to take Suzuki lessons, but our conservatory doesn't offer them for guitar, sadly. As to cello, I'd love to learn that.

What's most important is that DS fall in love with his instrument(s). I play piano and violin and sing, but a friend of mine in high school had about 7 instruments that she played at a grade 8+ level, and I can see DS being a bit of a musical polymath like her. He likes drums, guitar, voice, and piano, though that's what he has exposure to in our home. We have a keyboard and electronic drum kit that get a fair bit of play--great in a loft--and he managed to pull out a C scale intuitively one day, which earned some applause from me.

Music is a way of life for us. I'm sure it comes through in my post, and I would even consider getting him lessons on 2 or more instruments simultaneously if he was motivated down the road.

Rock on, aquinas' DS!

Sending you a PM.

You'll laugh, but DS' favourite thing at the playground is a set of plastic bongos on the play structure!

I also agree about respecting the style of the child. I'm no Beatles fan--but I try to expose DS to a WIDE variety of bands and genres because music is so individual. I'd hate for him not to find his favourite music because I was too provincial not to play it. You have to find and own your style, so much the better if you can carve out an autonomous identity from your parents in one area as a child. It's liberating!

Awesome! Thanks Mana! He's got the sunglasses to show he means business, too.

Just for fun, here's a little ear candy to thank for everyone kind enough to offer feedback: Dave Grohl and Taylor Hawkins, arguably two of the world's best drummers, playing a drum-off.

Just sent you a PM. Rock on!

Right back at you, and reply sent! You're awesome, Liz.

We bought my son a used electric drum set with smart integration into Garage Band on his Mac. He absolutely loves creating music on Garage Band and adding his own drums.

One note: electric drum sets upstairs will still wake you up on a Saturday morning - but instead of a loud, banging noise, it feels like you're having a personal earthquake as the ceiling and walls vibrate rhythmically.

Great tip! Thanks Lisa.

We'll have to be careful with the neighbours, though because it's a loft, maybe we should make it Saturday night drumming instead of morning and invite the neighbours over for drinks to compensate them.

Finding a good instrument isn't as simple as brand names. I've got three guitars of my own, all second-hand, no-name brands. And they all sound good. I've also seen some really, really bad ones, including DD's starter guitar, and one for a neighborhood kid. That kid's sister had a Walmart special with Disney princesses on it, and that one is pretty good.

You've got to play it to evaluate it. You have to hear that it stays in tune as you move down the fretboard, but not buzzing, and feel that the action is consistent, and easy enough for small fingers.

Depending on the instrument, you may be able to adjust some things to fix these problems. But some you can't, as in the aforementioned mini-electrics with no truss rod. Classical guitars don't usually offer anything to adjust except the tuning, so what you hear is what you get. And any instrument you pick up off the rack at a decent music store should already be set up properly, so you should be testing it at its best.

For small children I definitely recommend a classical guitar, because the nylon strinfs are so much softer, and their fingers are so much more sensitive. My DD doesn't practice long on her acoustic-electric because of it, but she'll jam on my classical guitar (which is absurdly huge for her) and lay her head against it with a look of pure bliss.

And as HK said, the small classical guitars get very poor resonance.

Aquinas, our boys have so much in common! Mine begged for lessons at 2.5 too. He loved and still loves my guitar.

We couldn't find anyone who would teach him until he hits age 5 here. He has massive hands so a 1/4 scale guitar would be just fine for him.

We looked at 2 models... A Guitarworks 1/4 scale from Richmond, VA and a Jasmine by Takamine JS141 which is 1/4. The Guitarworks was around US$100 and I think the Jasmine around $150.

At your son's age, if you don't already have a piano, consider getting a keyboard. It is great fun. The piano is a good foundation instrument and it is a ton of fun to experiment with the various programmed in instruments, rhythms, etc... And you can unplug it and stick it in a closet if your son has a tantrum like so many 3 year-olds do. Mine could be pretty mellow, but I would have been disappointed if he hurled a 1/4 scale guitar at me...

We have tried Kindermusik, Music Together, and the Suzuki Early Childhood music classes and all have been major failures for us. They all followed the same pattern... Week 1, great. By Week 3, somewhat bored. By week 6, utter frustration with repetition. My son hates repetitive instruction on something he has mastered though. Your mileage may vary. I have a child who loves loves loves music, and I kid you not, the classes made him hate it for a while. (Between each attempt, we took a minimum 3 month break before attempting a new program with new teacher. If I had it to do over, I wouldn't have done any of them.)

If you do buy a drum, getting a throw pillow to fit inside it will help with volume. Great fun!

Now that he can just play the piano and sing on his own, without a teacher, he loves music again. It is cute to see him plink away at the keys and sing along in key. I think at this age it is really about love. Whatever it takes to make them enjoy it. I don't really care about technique or mastery though, I just want a happy kid.

He is finally getting his guitar this fall for his 4th birthday. This time I am going to keep it low key. If I can find a fun one-on-one teacher for him to jam with, great. Otherwise, we are just going to play at home.

I'm think we're getting the Guitarworks guitar. It has nylon strings and is supposed to have a decent sound.

Reading your post reminded me of how much one of my sons LOVED the guitar at that age. We bought a cheap one for him, and he literally dragged it all over the house with him and played with it for months and months. It is in our family picture from his three year old birthday, as it went everywhere (in the house) with him at that age.

He was attending a music class then, and the instructor said that they couldn't teach children guitar until around five or six, because they just didn't have the correct hand size and strength. By the time he was five, he was no longer interested.

SAHM, that's uncanny! Our boys really do share many interests!

You've given me many good suggestions and BTDT insights. I know I'll be returning to your post several times. Thank you so much for commenting, particularly with specific guitar models.

We've found a group class that "works" for DS, from the perspective that he has a young friend with him and he is learning social skills alongside music, although I sense he's starting to outgrow the format, as the gap between his interests and those of age-peers is widening. With an October birthday, he's the youngest in his class, but even that doesn't mean much anymore. We might be able to eke out another year, but I'm hoping at that point we'll transition to individual instruction anyway.

We had another mind-meld over the keyboards-- we have a little Casio model that DS received for his second Christmas. I deliberately chose it because the keys are smaller than piano keys and require less force to activate, which has been friendly for small hands. I'd love to bring home my upright piano, which is currently at my parents' house, but our loft is so tiny (<1,000sqft!) that we would have to get rid of DS' current play nook (which itself is small--maybe 25sqft) to accommodate it. I'll have to measure to see if it could even fit up the stairs, because we had to hoist our queen mattress up into the loft. Urban living...yeeesh!

If I had another 100sqft, I'd fill it with a drum set and piano. Our home is already over-ridden with bookshelves and cooking equipment.

momoftwins, I think that just emphasizes the need to supply children with an outlet when it's relevant and interesting. Thanks so much for sharing. I'm thinking that even if lessons aren't tenable right now, it might be worthwhile to get a guitar for experimentation anyway, for the reasons you suggest.

Musical instruments, cooking, various experiments...

AND October birthdays! :-)

*Gives props*

My DD7 started piano last summer when she was about 6.1y We chose a piano teacher that came to her prior montessori school to give optional small group piano lessons starting at around 2 years and up though I think it was mostly 4-5 year olds doing it. I started chatting with her once when about starting DD who was then 5 and found that this teacher was apparantly quite accomplished and very booked. We had to wait until she graduated some students in the summer about 6 months later and then we started. I figured that it was probably good to start with someone who was comfortable with young children even though we probably didn't need someone of this caliber (and cost). Soon after, my youngest who was about 2.10y at the time started begging for her own lessons. After months of consistent begging, a spot opened and so I gave in and started her at 3.3y. Its a bit older than your DS and a different instrument but other than the cost of it, it has been fine. She loves the private lessons but I do not think she would have loved the usual group music classes. The teacher started with alot more fun type books and learning songs and coloring to learn the notes but quickly she seemed to teach DD3 the same she had started with DD6 (now 7). I am amazed at how well she reads music (for the notes she knows) and she quite loves doing the counting and the theory reciting. I am surprised by how easily she does it though I really should not be. They recite things like the space and line notes, intervals,order of sharps and flats, key signatures, 5 finger patterns and a lot of music terms. Sometimes she doesn't want to play the songs assigned and we do not do consistent practice at all but she does quite well at the lessons and has quite good technique actually despite her age. We don't even have a piano at home but just a full size pretty nice keyboard. In any case, that has been our experience in the 4 months or so since she started. In fact both my girls and another girl who is 5 are doing a trio at the end of the year recital this weekend. Should be fun. Also i fully expect she will lose interest and stop for awhile at some point but we will have a head start and could pick it up later if she wanted. I do admit that I am a little embarassed of starting her so young as I fully expect that most people think I am crazy and a pushy tiger mom for doing it. But I am not and who really cares anyway.

I'm not sure if this'd make you feel better or worse, DD started around 3.3 as well.

I think I'd know I've gone too far if I start limiting her other activities to make time for lessons and practice or if I start insisting that DD not participate in P.E. to avoid injuries. Then yeah, I'd be a pushy tiger mom.

Actually looking back it was closer to 3.5 so perhaps a little better? But mostly I fear it is not the best allocation of funds. I don't push her to practice much and the lesson is only 30 minutes and she loves the lesson itself. She is learning quite a bit for how little time she puts into it and she likes it. So for now it is enough for us. When her older sister starts soccer in the fall we will have more conflicts with schedules so we will have to consider then how interested she still is.

Thanks for letting me know how your daughter fared, coveln.

Hi Aquinas,

Just wanted to let you know we finally bought DS, now 4 and a half, a guitar and just started lessons. He loves the guitar and the teacher, so I'm feeling pretty happy about it right now.

The guitar we bought is the Cordoba Protege 1/2 size C1 with nylon strings. It was a little more expensive than some of the other options but sounds great. He may be 94% for height but this guitar is a little big for him. Am wondering if I should have gotten the 1/4 scale... His hands are huge though so he has no problem with the neck or strings. He seems to be right in between sizes...

If I had it to do over, I probably would have bought the 1/4 scale guitarworks for his 4th birthday and gotten this one as soon as he outgrew the guitarworks (which seems a bit more disposable). I have heard you shouldn't overspend on a 1/4 scale because a 1/2 scale will have a significant quality improvement. I don't know if that is true.

We didn't buy it then because he got inundated with stuff from the grandparents for his birthday. It was really just too much. I know, first world problem.

Yup. I started guitar at age 9 and even then I had to stretch my fingers still and it challenged my fine motor (which is normal) but I progressed quickly. I don't think anyone's hands are ready at 2.7 (regardless of fine motor ability... we're talking size and strength here... not to mention sensitivity to the strings - ouch! Even with nylon strings you still develop thicker skin on your finger tips and I think the initial discomfort would put a toddler off, no matter how interested).

An excellent alternative for the very young is ukulele. It's much smaller, the strings are much softer, and you can strum and fret it almost any way and it sounds good.

On the one hand I generally think there's no harm in trying... why not?

But just a note of caution: my kids were also interested in the guitar at one point and I bought them both child sized guitars for Christmas (I wouldn't let them near my Takamine ) It was just too soon for their hands and they abandoned it quickly. I can't remember their ages at the time but I'll guess around 5-7?

They both love music - they play piano - but now (at 11 & 12) they have no interest in returning to guitar because they see it as "too difficult" and "too uncomfortable." I think this is because they tried it too young.

Worth noting, however, is that both my kids have sensory issues, so that may be a factor. Still... for guitar it may be a better option to wait it out so that a child's first exposure is not a physically painful one.

Ukulele and one of the Alfred method books with DVD.

Another family of ukulele fans here My kids eventually dropped the ukulele and moved on to other instruments, but it was a relatively low investment, and was fun!

polarbear

I must confess, I don't know any children who take guitar lessons or ukulele for that matter but it seems like some Suzuki teachers do a lot of other things aside from playing the instrument if the student is very young. I think it comes down to finding the right teacher who can guide the process carefully and lovingly and having reasonable expectations as to what is developmentally possible.

DD had her public performance "debut" recently. She's had a number of recitals in the past and has done some gigging but this one was rather special and she worked really hard all summer to prepare for it. Sometimes, I do wonder if we started too early but thus far, music training has taught her how to learn from teachers and how to work together as a team better than anything else I can imagine. She is learning to overcome her perfectionism because she finally figured out that with performance, no matter what, it's never going to be perfect. Most importantly, it has brought so much joy into her life that at the end of the day, I have no regrets.

But I do have one complaint. It really is incredibly expensive. We get a lot of help from her teachers who are so generous with their time and we are very grateful but even then, it's a huge financial strain.

We ultimately opted against lessons for the time being. DS isn't mature enough to focus on or benefit from lessons, or to be able to consistently apply himself to practice, without significantly impairing his enjoyment of music at this age (or earlier). He's now showing more interest in drums, so we'll keep up playing on free mode on our Rock Band set to give him a (free) taste of rhythm and tempo.