I'm sure most of you are familiar with the research that shows that telling children that they are smart or gifted can end up backfiring on them and that praising them for hard work is more motivating. The reasoning behind this is that if a child thinks that their success is due to being smart then they will fear trying again and possibly failing because then they won't be smart anymore. It makes sense and I believe it.
The problem is that I think educators are using this as a mantra and it is almost overused. My son's teachers are always telling him that he does well because he is such a hard worker. The funny thing is that my son really isn't a hard worker. I personally think that it appears he has worked hard because he makes 100s.
I've noticed that the teachers and counselor at this fairly progressive school are reluctant to say that a child is gifted. His current teacher did tell me that he is a 'bright' boy, but there was an odd tone to her voice when she said this like she didn't want to have to say it.
And my son is starting to see though the line. I told him that he is doing well in school because he is working hard and puts in a lot of effort. He told me that makes little sense because he sees students who work much harder, but still make poor grades. So much for being PC!

I don't think it makes the least bit of sense to lie to kids about this stuff. I do think it is best to avoid gushing about intelligence...or anything else, for that matter, including hard work. We have always talked frankly about how everyone is different, with different abilities and different interests, etc., and so far that has worked well for us.

We speak very matter-of-factly about intelligence. Just as I wouldn't praise my child's eyes because he did nothing to earn them, I don't praise his innate intelligence. But I also don't praise him for hard work if he doesn't work hard.

It seems to me that this is a very good reason to argue for challenging work. Teachers basically shouldn't praise a child at all if the work isn't challenging!

I agree with your post. Very intelligent kids figure out that they are very intelligent. Our 2nd grader (by age he would be a 1st grader) is doing Singapore Math 5 at home, and he knows can do work 4 years ahead of his age because he is good at math. There is the danger that believing one is talented at something can cause one to slack off because even a little effort will let one get by. My answer to that is to challenge my son not just to do well in math at school but to participate in contests such as the Math Olympiads or Math Kangaroo where he is competing against the best students in the country.

Really there are two different schools of thought. Carol Dweck is the one who really popularized the research emphasizing the importance of praising work versus innate ability. This is the research that has gotten a lot of attention in the media. Alfie Kohn has a bit of a different approach. He emphasizes that the problem is external evaluation and praise takes away from a child developing their own internal motivation and self understanding. Praise can be manipulative and put children under pressure.

It sounds like the original poster's son might appreciate Alfie Kohn's position more. http://www.alfiekohn.org/parenting/gj.htm

Passthepotatoes, interesting that the former theory was forumulated by a woman and the latter a male. I think females in general have more of a need for approval and males emphasize their performance from a more objective standpoint.

I think whether you actually tell a child that they are putting in effort or not, it is absolutely necessary that they put in some degree of effort. But how do teachers know that one child who makes a 100 put in a lot of effort and another child who received the same 100 put in little effort? I don't think that most teachers are observant enough to tell the difference. Even I remember as a child being called a 'bookworm' and studious because I had a decent verbal IQ, not because I really was studious. I actually was extremely lazy and non-academic until much later.

I wonder if it is almost more advantageous for an intelligent child to perform very poorly because then the incongruity is noticed when they ace the standardized tests. They end up getting special services because it is obvious that they are not challenged and something is amiss.

Good point, passthepotatoes.

I would also add that I think the original point of the praise-hard-work idea has gotten lost in the popularization. What I take from it is that you don't want your smart kid to get invested in a self-image that prevents them from trying things they aren't already good at. I wouldn't say the idea is to *praise* hard work, but to help them to see that work can get them from being not-good at something to being good at it, and that it's worth trying things they don't already excel at because they possess the ability to *become* good at things, not just to *be* good at things.

I won't attempt to speak for Dweck but having read her book I don't think she was at all advocating turning "good job working hard" into the contemporary substitute for "good job" (which was really the replacement for the "good boy" a generation ago). She's not advocating a constant stream of praise and thinking that's cool as long as it is hard work.

And, I'm agreeing with the point made by gratified. There is no substitute for students having access to work that is actually challenging enough that they get to make mistakes, experience frustration, and actually get to work hard. Nothing adults can say is a substitute for those experiences.

I agree. I also think that the idea of not praising someone for a trait s/he was born with is being bundled with the idea of not being honest about a talent. Praising or over-praising and being matter-of-fact are two different things.



Hmm...well, I think intelligent kids know that they learn faster, but I'm not sure how readily this translates into understanding that their thought processes --- such as how they view the world --- are very different from everyone else's, and that this difference is due to their IQs (as opposed to being because they're weird, a misfit, or whatever).

I wonder how much of the social skill "problem" is due to true introvertedness and how much is due to the fact that gifted kids just don't think the same way as other kids. Obviously some gifted kids are introverted and don't have great social skills. The question is, are there more true introverts among gifted kids than there are in the general population? Does gifted-introversion become less pronounced when these kids are with intellectual peers? In other words, how many gifties are truly introverted and how many are keeping quiet deliberately, because it's better to stay quiet than to stand out when you don't want to?

Similarly, are there more extroverts in the general population than there are among the gifted?

This idea is why I think it's important for me to be honest and matter-of-fact with my kids about their abilities.

Val

Sometimes suffering through the easy work IS more challenging LOL

Yes, introversion is more common among gifted individuals than in the general population.

It is important to note that being introverted isn't the same as having bad social skills. There are extroverts with bad social skills and introverts with great ones. Introversion is more about how a person gets their energy.

http://www.sengifted.org/articles_social/BurrussKaenzig_IntroversionTheOftenForgotten.shtml This article may be helpful.

I agree with what many are saying regarding not praising innate intelligence. This is something I have exercised in the home environment and I don't praise effort if I know it hasn't been applied.

The interesting thing for me is that DS has always been praised for both his apparent effort and giftedness at school. I'm not saying the school dwells on this but no doubt there has been countless times that he has received praise and recognition for very little effort (test results, competitions, assignments, etc) as well as his innate intelligence. From our personal experience I see this has had no effect on his motivation or drive, in fact I think it is the opposite. DS is very introverted and would never openly discuss his abilities but the fact that the school, well does it for him, seems to boost his confidence and self esteem and his desire to achieve.

Yes, you're right. I was actually struggling for the right word there; I should have just said "poor social skills" or something similar.

Val

I've been torn by this dilemma. At my DD10's conference this spring, her teacher asked me to write a note praising her hard work this year. I felt put on the spot. Even though my daughter is an "A" student in a gifted program, I'm not sure how hard she worked. She definitely put in effort and produced quality work. On the other hand, I can't say that anything seemed hard for her or that she did anything that seemed challenging.

Well I guess I'm the odd ball. I praise alot.
I tell my DD everyday that I think she the sweetest, smartest, most beautiful little girl in the whole world and I am so lucky to have her.

Her straight A report card and drawings get hung on the fridge. If she is proud of something than I am proud for her, no strings attached

Some of ya'll might this interesting
http://chattahbox.com/us/2010/04/30/fox-news-hits-new-low-mr-rogers-is-evil/

Oh, I don't think there's reason to be stingy with praise, Floridama. There's a big difference between loving a child--and saying so--and talking about what they can and/or do actually do. Specific praise is generally thought to be better for kids than hyperbole, since they know when someone is blowing smoke and they stop believing even valid compliments if too much of what they're told doesn't ring true.

I want my kids to know they are loved and appreciated. I do NOT want them to think that I'm a liar or that their poo doesn't stink. I also don't want them to think that the only thing that matters is how smart they are.

I've used this often, but my mom always said, "It's nice to be smart, but it's smart to be nice." I think Mr. Rogers would approve.

I think it helps to go back to first principles. What Kohn is against is evaluating a child or what they do (positively or negatively) because when someone, especially someone as important as a parent, does that it teaches the child to override and disregard their own evaluation. So I think reinforcing DS's own self-evaluation which he's already come to is OK ("I did it! Yay!" "You did! Fantastic!" - or Floridama putting her DD's report card which DD is proud of on the fridge) and I think telling him how I feel about him ("I love you and I think you're the most wonderful little boy in the whole wide world and I love being your Mummy") is fine. Neither of those seems likely to stop him learning to evaluate what he does or to trust his own evaluation. I also try to be interested in what he has to say and to show me and to take a positive approach to it, of course.

What I try to avoid is jumping in and praising things he hasn't noticed, or phrasing things as evaluations of him which are actually expressions of my own feelings. (E.g., I try to say "Thank you for emptying the dishwasher, that lets me get on with supper" rather than "That was so responsible of you, emptying the dishwasher" even though the latter is the kind of "specific praise" that some authorities approve of.)

I agree, although I might replace "that" by "how"!

The temptation for parents in this situation can be to really fill in and disagree with the child - "that isn't true, you did a great job", "of course you are not ugly," etc. This of course doesn't change the child's self perception. I think what is more effective is to ask questions and encourage the child to think more realistically about their situation. Also, noting evidence that runs contrary to their belief is reasonable too.

We also talk about treating one's self as kindly as we treat our friends. DS5 is often MUCH harder on himself than he would be on one of his buddies. Rather than focusing on how wrong his perception is, we have had some luck with reframing if we talk about kindness to himself.

YMMV, of course.

I think we have always tended toward the praising for effort rather than result. Recently, however, I have started to think about how dd's school peers probably get a lot more affirmation for their good grades and/or "good girl" behavior than dd would get because she is only praised for effort. She has seemed unsure of herself recently and I am trying to find ways to praise her more - or at least moments to acknowledge when she does behave "correctly." It makes me very uncomfortable to think about right and wrong behavior, but I think kids' behavior is judged all the time - if they are at school - so I'm trying to catch up somehow.

I took a class on PBIS.Positive Behavior. Intereventions and Supports. It is a professional development class all special education teachers are required to take. Reasearch has shown all children and all people need the same positive supports. Not all states have passed laws requiring Gifted children have a IEP. But if your child needs behavior supports to redirect his behavior at school with positive verbal promts. A behavioral intervention plan is designed to do that. Laura A. Riffel, Ph.D at www.behaviordoctor.org has a free (FBA) Functional Behavioral Assessment Data Tool. You can e-mail : laura.riffel@yahoo.com if you would like supports or knowledge of what is considered the most effective way to address behavior in approiate ways. I took this class since my childs behavior interfered with his education and was so challenging. He also requires constant positive reinforcement. The information was also helpful to know how to support the teacher who hadn't had the class. Oklahoma State Department of Education is offering a three year program called PBIS that trains the whole school. A program that is supportive of all children and parents. I also found the college level book for teachers, Behavior Interventions for Teachers, and read it. I wish someone would have shared this information with me when my child was 3 years old. Since it would have allowed me to get the services at school he needed to be suscessful. It also gave me information I needed to work with the school so I knew what they were required to provide. Having the latest scientifically researched information on behavior resolved my anziety as to how to address his behavior. I also found a website Cybary Man's Education/Understanding Asynchronous Development in Gifted Children.... Wrightslaw.cybaryman.com/gifted.html that helped me very much. Hope this info was of use. P.S. try contacting your State Department of Education,Special Education services to see if they have free training classes for PBIS if you are interested in advocacy or sharing the information with your school distric. NCLB educational goal #8 made parents equal partners in our children's education where our opinion counts.

Do most gifted kids really think they are smart?
If a lot of them are self critical I would think the opposite.
My DS7 thinks he is an idiot.

DS6 knows he's "smart". But he doesn't think he's good at much else.

Most of the teachers I have seen are know it alls themselves!!

They like to judge and not be judge themselves.

The best teacher my son had was the one who did judge him at all. She gave him work he was ready for because he could do it and it was not a power struggle of whether or not the kid was smart

Most teachers have this power stuggle going on and want to point out weaknesses to prove the kid might not be smart etc.

Ahh...wow. I'm not sure how I would have responded to that. Sounds to me like someone needs to reconsider her career in GT "education."

Val

When I was in school I usually made straight A's unless I had PE in which case it was inevitable that I would make one B. I competed in class for the highest scores on tests. I thought I was good at taking tests, but not much else. I was afraid to try anything new because I was afraid I would fail. I did worry that my son would be this way also.

My son, although he is twice exceptional, is different. The only praise he accepts is when he finds a way to do something that is difficult for him. Winning a spelling bee is easy for him. The challenge level is so easy that it doesn't mean that much to him. This is one way that I think video games actually helped him. My son knows that he has a higher challenge level than a lot of people on this board because of the migraines, the scoliosis brace, having to deal with a helicopter mom with anxiety issues, foot pain and low endurance because of low muscle tone, and what I think is an unusual visual perceptual problem that causes some unusual problems in reading music, math, drawing and handwriting that he has had to find ways to compensate for on his own.

Praise for him is when he proves that he can do what it takes to get the job done by the deadline even with the higher challenge level. For him, this deadline is the final dress rehearsal in musical theater. Somehow, even with all the difficulties, he manages to do what it takes. I realize that it must take incredible focus for him to do this when he is only able to practice dances about half the time the other kids practice. Learning lines and song lyrics quickly is not challenging, but putting it all together while dancing is. He proved that he can do what it takes. He gets lead roles now and he is not a back row dancer any more.

He says he likes to prove people wrong when he knows they think he might not be able to do something. He always chooses the higher challenge level. He is a gifted learner even though he has to learn differently sometimes and I am becoming more confident now that he will find a way to learn what he needs to learn even if I don't know how to help him. Now that he is 12, he doesn't want my help in some things and even though we are homeschooling he says he can learn things better on his own.

Your son sounds just wonderful to me.

"... if a child thinks that their success is due to being smart then they will fear trying again and possibly failing because then they won't be smart anymore. It makes sense and I believe it."

I don't think it's as simple as that. You must know your child; it's simply not a matter of being able to generalize.

From personal experience, a gifted child can struggle with understanding the gift they have. I can assure you it's possible to know you're smart and feel stupid at the same time.

Through 8th grade there never was a challenge for me in school. I probably could have completed 8th grade work by the time I finished 2nd grade. I never did homework since I already knew how to do it and as long as I aced the tests no one complained. Still, I felt stupid and lazy because I did the bare minimum. I remember in 2nd grade I got a black star on my reading chart because I didn't do the number of required book reports. I felt like a complete idiot. What they had no way of knowing was that I had already finished every book in the local library that they would allow me to get my hands on. You had to be in High School to access the "Adult" section. I was lucky to have an older brother who would check books out for me.

By the time I entered HS, I had zero work study habits. I hated school. I felt I didn�t fit in and I really didn't feel smart. My grades were all over the place since I didn't apply myself, yet I still maintained a decent average. I was accepted to every college I applied to. 165 credits later and still no degree! *grin* (and Gosh! I STILL am successful!)

The day I suspected I was smarter than I realized was sometime senior year we had a guidance counselor visit a class to chat and the conversation went something like this"
Student: "Has there ever been a genius at this school?"
Counselor (looking away from me when I perked up at the question): "In the history of this school there has been one genius.�
Student: "Can you tell us who it was?"
Counselor: "No."
Student: "Why not?"
Counselor: "Because they still go to this school."
Student: "Do they know?"
Counselor: "No."
Student" "Why don't they know?"
Counselor: (As she stared directly at me): "Because we believe if they knew, they wouldn't try"
Me (To myself): "Newsflash lady, they're not trying NOW."

I didn't confirm it for many years that it was indeed me. I wish there had been something back then for me to try striving for and some real guidance as to what was possible.

I don't mean that to sound depressing, because I did a fantastic amount of learning outside of school on my own. I was never bored outside of school and I pursued many interests.

I can't say that if I knew I was smart or not would have made a difference in higher education. I do think I might have felt better about myself and maybe bolstered my confidence socially, but without the infrastructure to support my appetite I think my academic career was doomed for failure. Then again, knowing I was a nerd wouldn't have changed that fact. I still am a bit a of a social misfit!

Today, I let my children know they are smart. I see no reason to hide it. It doesn't have to be presented as, "You're smarter than everyone else and you can let them know it." but it can be along the lines of "I know you have the ability, now let�s work a bit harder!" and "wonderful, you pushed yourself and look what you did!�

I�ll suggest that it's all how you present it to the child. If there's a lesson I have learned in life it is that the only mistake you can make is not having tried to correct a mistake. Failure is just an opportunity to add to your knowledge that one method for sure doesn't work! Being smart is no guarantee that you won�t hit a wall but hopefully it will help you to walk around it next time.

This one is so tricky, isn't it? An anecdote: I was reading a blog just the other day by a young man whose education has had much of what I'm looking for for my DS - in fact that was how I got to the blog, by searching for things by and about people who'd been through one particular school, which attracts (and savagely selects) an extraordinarily talented cohort of students and then challenges and enriches them to the nines. He's clearly both very talented and very well educated, and he sounds like a nice young man as well - but as far as I can tell from his writing, he genuinely has no feeling for how unusual he is. When faced with an exam paper that's supposed to be very hard, and it isn't, he assumes he was misled about the paper; on the occasions when he fails to do something, he assumes he was being terribly stupid and that everyone else will think so. In a way this is endearing, but even at the high powered universities he's looking at, it will get him into trouble. He'd be better off realising how unusual he is and knowing when to keep quiet about it. On the other hand, that he's been surrounded at school by enough people of comparable achievement that he's able to hold this misconception is quite something. I don't know what's the right thing to do as a parent, beyond "tell the truth and share your values" which can't really be wrong.

LOL! Because I recognise myself! Sigh.... Why do people insist that they can keep it hidden. Drives me NUTS! Because of course I knew I was different even if I didn't know why, and of course I knew I should get better grades, and I didn't understand why I didn't. Not telling me just convinced me I couldn't be that smart because otherwise someone would tell me, so the problem must be something else - me!! It is so frustrating.

DING!!! We have a winner!

Too many parents feel like they have to kowtow to the "authority" of the school. There's nothing that says you have to give up your integrity as a parent. Life is bumps and bruises and having to put your kids back on the bike when they know it could hurt them again.

To my way of thinking, being smart is just another talent like music, art, athletics, writing, creativity or any one of the other gifted talents we can have. Has anyone ever warned you not to mention to a child that "Gee, you seem to be great in art!" for fear that if someone tells them one of their pictures is crappy, they may never want to paint again?

Certainly there are children who are so self-conscious that pointing out a failure to them that it really can devastate them. I have that flaw myself and have had to work very hard to overcome those feelings, some i never have been able to quite work out, but that's OK. I have been able to identify that the criticism really wasn't a reflection on my work as much as it is a personality flaw that i have issues with criticism. So in some odd way i am OK with it even while it bothers me.

I completely agree. To give some perspective, I went to a Catholic elementary/middle school. My mom still attends the church attached to that school. One of the nuns recently came up to my mom and admitted that they really had no idea what to do with me most of the time. She told my mom that I was the brightest kid she had had in 30+ years of teaching and that it was uncomfortable for her because half the time she couldn't answer my questions. So much for the bastions of authority from my youth!

Wow, I can identify with this one. I do think that it is partially a function of not being challenged at a young age. I never had academic "failures" (read a "B") until college. I've learned to manage this one through life experience.
I worry about my kids. I'm probably one of the only parents who was thrilled when my DD brought home a "C" on something because she didn't put any effort into it (usually, she gets straight "A"s). We talked about how it wasn't the end of the world. I understood that she wasn't interested in the project and that it seemed like busy work.
I have tried hard to find ways that it is okay for my kids to "fail." Academically, these opportunities have been few and far between. I have sought out activities that they want to try and where things do not come as easily for them, i.e. sports, the arts, etc.