I would like some recommendations for schools that welcome gifted children and do a good job of supporting their needs. We live in San Francisco. Last week we learned that we only got into one of six independent school kindergarten programs that we applied to. While the school that accepted my son looks like a great place for my son, the psychologist who runs a social skills group my son participates in has warned that we shouldn't send him there. She said they cannot meet his needs. I feel really awful because we don't have a choice. We didn't get into any other school. The psychologist, who knows my son well and has worked with him extensively over the last year, told me that my son has the potential to be a genius if we can provide the appropriate opportunities and that this school isn't going to give him the resources or support he needs. What am I supposed to do?

We applied to Nueva and didn't get in. There was stiff competition and very few spots. I also suspect that my son's uneven scores hurt his application (he had a large gap between VCI and fluid reasoning and average processing speed). We were heartbroken because we loved the school's program and thought it would be a great fit for my extremely creative son.

We also applied to a handful of other schools. During our parent interviews many of the schools suggested that we apply to Nueva and expressed concern about meeting our son's needs or providing a peer group. And all of them wait listed us. If it were just our family, I would think my son's introverted personality was the issue but we know five other families with gifted kids who also applied to Nueva (so they had their kids tested and confirmed their high IQs). Two got into Neuva and will be going. The kids who didn't get into Nueva had terrible luck. Two gifted boys didn't get into a single school, despite applying widely. These kids are very smart, charming, well behaved and go to great preschools. They have lovely, successful parents. And they have no school to go to. This is deeply upsetting to me. There has to be a lot of gifted kids in San Francisco so what schools welcome them?

My husband and I feel so sad that we were not able to find a place for my son that we feel confident will meet his needs. I'd love some perspective from people on here about where else we can look if the psychologist's warnings turn out to be true. We are willing to move/travel out of San Francisco if that is necessary.

Thank you!

I can't answer your question, but here is a side comment.

I think kindergarten is too early for a program to be focused on anything, whether it's math and science or the humanities. Little kids need to learn a lot about everything.

@Bostonian: I agree. The school is focused on STEAM and project based learning but also has plenty of art, Spanish, music and a garden program where kids spend time digging in the dirt and raising bees and chickens and learning about sustainability. It has small classes and teachers who have pets bring them to school. It just celebrates geek culture and the school seeks kids who love math and science.

I met and talked to many parents who love the school and say it is nurturing and their kids are excited to go to school every day. I just feel worried because some parents with kids like mine have complaints.

To be honest, I think it sounds like you might have the kind of kid who may not fit in particularly well anywhere. But if he's tested in the high gifted range, did you apply to any programs specifically for gifted students?

Have you considered whether you'd do just as well to send him to public school? I know private schools are crazy popular in SF, but that doesn't mean that they're a better choice for everyone. Not everyone's going to be able to afford to live in SF and pay for private school, and you're in an area that imports a lot of highly skilled workers; I'd think there's a good chance a lot of very intelligent kids end up in public schools (especially since it sounds like anyone who moves in after preschool would be hard-pressed to find a spot in a private school).

Have you checked out Alt School in SF?
https://www.altschool.com
and the new Stratford in SF
http://www.stratfordschools.com/San_Francisco_Preschool_Elementary_Middle_School
Personally, I have not used these 2 schools, but you could attend their open houses to see if they interest you. There is a new Alt school coming soon nearer to me and I might visit them at that time.
How far south are you able to commute daily for school?

I have been in your shoes (a little south of you) and what I did was to put my son in the best school situations that I could find while after schooling him extensively to challenge him and biding my time until I could find a better fit for him. We have changed 3 schools so far and are changing to the 4th one next year (he is a 2nd grader!). Good luck.

I would try it before making judgement on the program. Your son might be just fine and if he 's not, then have a plan B ready to go.

There is also the GATE Academy in Marin. It seems like a nice (private) school that is priced a little lower than most private schools.

I can also vouch for Alt School. My son currently is in a combined 2nd -3rd grade class. It is not a "gifted" school, but my son really enjoys going. He feels like he has to work hard sometimes. The style isn't for every kid as it's not rigidly structured. It is very open and about "intrinsic learning". It is new and very progressive.

We applied to Alt School and were wait listed. Our preschool director and the psychologist we work with have relationships with the school and reached out but we weren't able to get off the wait list. It does seem like an ideal place for gifted kids because it's so flexible and personalized. It also happens to have a campus three blocks from our house! For now, it's not an option but I am planning to go back and apply again IF the school we are in doesn't work out. I'm happy to hear that it is working well for others.

I wish Alt School would explicitly welcome gifted kids. As I have found out in the last week, there is a real need for alternatives in the city.

@Aufilia: I am also a strong supporter of public schools. My husband and I both attended them and we have many family members who are public school teachers. Unfortunately, the school system here has real issues. The system is hostile to gifted students. It eliminated the GATE program and just last year got rid of honors math classes because kids who don't qualify might feel bad. There are also new rules that require all students to start with Algebra I in ninth grade and forbid them from testing out or taking higher level courses unless they are transferring from private school and can test into higher courses. This forces students to take a compressed version of Algebra II and precalculus the following year if they want to complete all the math courses. My husband is a mathematician and our son appears to be gifted in that area and we don't want to send him to a school that refuses to accommodate children who are gifted in math.

On top of that, we received an undesirable public school assignment that is far away, in a failing school and in a very dangerous neighborhood.

So, it looks like your options are as follows:

1. Bad public school in dangerous distant neighborhood that's part of a hostile-to-gifted system. Okay, cross that one off.

2. Dodgey private school that some people like and some don't.

3. Homeschool (if you both work and/or you don't like that idea cross that one off).

4. Other (small boutique school). This will require going page-by-page through a copy of Bay Area Parent Schools Edition (possibly online, possibly on the newstands) and scrutinizing each ad.

It sounds to me like you need to choose between options 2 or 4.

FWIW, I wouldn't recommend Stratford. We looked at it for my daughter and heard bad things about it: high pressure, super-competitive, that kind of thing. Stratford isn't supportive of acceleration (at least, they weren't with my daughter; I asked about moving her up a year in math, and the principal (!) told me that she'd have to talk to corporate about that. If a principal can't make such a basic decision, that's a bad sign. And I had to talk to her because the math teacher pretty much gagged when I asked him ("Oh! That's not MY decision! You'd have to talk to the principal!").

There are small schools out there, but you may have to dig to find them. You may also have to accept that they'll only work for a while.

San Francisco isn't known for having a kid-friendly atmosphere in general (people have been complaining about this problem, and especially that whole school-lottery thing, for many years).

You are not exaggerating, unfortunately. San Francisco real estate is fiercely expensive. How are are parents who care about education and are not rich supposed to raise a family in SF?

A look into San Francisco’s education market
by By Beth Weise
March 27, 2014

We consulted with a psychologist (on the Hoagies list) to help narrow down the list of private schools that would be gifted friendly. This was very helpful.

First of all, come to terms with the fact that your DS may be changing schools, probably more than once. For kids with a really high LOG, it's actually quite common. Our DD seems to require a refresh every two years. And note, the better the school fit, the happier she is... and the MORE quirky and out of step with the norm she gets (despite being socially adept and friendly).

Second, you are seeing firsthand the difference between a school that focuses on achievement and one that focuses on intelligence. The achievement oriented school is going to want lots of similarly-minded, hard-working, MG kids. They aren't going to want to dissipate their achievement energy accelerating or differentiating or dealing with a quirky kid. That these are great schools (or even claim to be gifted schools) doesn't matter, because it's the not right school for your DS.

So what is the right school? Well, sometimes the less well know places are better. The small quirky schools with less attention on them. And these schools can be hard to find. We've been hunting for a new school for DD what feels like almost constantly since 2nd grade. Sometimes the best matches are places that hide.

Val's list of options is excellent. But I wouldn't cross number 3 off the list if you don't have to. Maybe a year at home (or with another provider) will give you the time you need to find a better match.

Which school did you pick for your gifted children, Val?

If you do decide to try the homeschool route, know that the Bay Area has a large and vibrant gifted homeschooling community.

How about Brightworks?
http://www.sfbrightworks.org
I haven't seen it but I know a very gifted kid who is happy there.

How far are you willing to travel ?
I've heard good things about Basis. Have you explored other areas such as Palo Alto (it has an excellent school district) ? My child goes to public school, and, while it is true that they can only do so much, if you are in a school district that is responsive, they are a bit (not a lot, but better than private schools who won't do much) more flexible and will do things like pre-test, accelerate the curriculum etc.

Palo Alto, Cupertino, Piedmont and San Ramon school districts are generally supposed to be good. I don't think a gifted program exists till middle school for some of these school districts. But I also do know that they are willing to help/differentiate, especially if they also view the child as gifted and see that the child's parents are very involved. My child has 2e issues, and is still doing okay. If your child has no 2e issues, and is gifted, I think some public schools will be a good fit. Also, I am not sure about San Francisco, but every third kid in the South Bay, in well-performing school districts, seems to be gifted. The only difference is in the LOG.

Hope this helps ! Good luck !

Thank you for all of the wonderful suggestions and also for the support. Our preschool director loves the school that my son was accepted at but also says that he will thrive anywhere because he is so bright and enthusiastic and because he has such involved parents. Even occasional visits to these boards have convinced me that is not necessarily true but I'm trying to keep an open mind. I have talked with many families at the school he will be attending and most of them are very happy there.

I'm not sure if my son will end up being 2e. His uneven scores certainly suggest that we need to keep an eye on him. I think that will become clearer in the next couple of years.

We are willing to move to the Peninsula at some point if we have to BUT now we both work in San Francisco (and have commutes of 10-15 minutes)and we have been in our apartment for years and the rent is way below market value. We can get by with one [old] car. It is actually cheaper to stay in our place and pay for private school than it would be to relocate and buy even a very modest home (plus another car) and send our kids to public school. And then we wouldn't even have the option of switching to private school if the public school didn't end up working out because we couldn't afford it.

Oh dear. Having good standardized test scores anywhere because he has such Involved parents, as statistics predict, is not quite the same as thriving anywhere, of course - as in, will he remain as bright and enthusiastic as he is now! But that's a common educators misconception...
However, no reason why it might not be true for this particular school. Right now, it's your least worst option for the next school year, right? (That's a gifted thing, google it...). It might just work. Take a deep breath, relax and give it a shot. Good luck!

Lepa, I'm sorry you didn't get into the other schools - it sounds terribly frustrating!

I'm not in San Francisco (although I'm jealous you are actually living in the city and can afford it lol!).. so I can't offer advice about specific schools. I do, however, want to reassure you about one thing:


"the potential to be a genius" - that comment refers to ability. Your ds is not going to *lose* his ability by going to a school that isn't a great fit. The school experience may be frustrating for him and for your as parents (we've btdt... quite a bit actually)... but he isn't going to not be who he is in terms of his abilities... hope that makes sense! So your situation for now is what it is, and you can and will advocate for the best fit you can... but don't spend time and effort being sad or worried that this experience will put your ds "at risk".

That said, I'd pay attention to the psychologist's advice - more so than the preschool teacher. I'm curious - you tried looking at schools that required an admissions process - what have you heard about your neighborhood school? Is there any chance your ds might get support there? Or is it not in great shape and not an option?

Is there also any chance you are on a wait list for one of the other schools? And did you get any input on why your ds didn't get into any of the other schools? Are they lottery schools or private schools with selective admissions? Can you apply again in a year?

polarbear

One last thought-- in a hyper-competitive environment, it pays to be flexible and nimble. If you can, I mean.

That said, if you were waitlisted at a variety of places, bearing in mind what Ivy and Val note above (that is, that most of them are probably seeking MG kids with highly involved parents who drive their entire families pretty hard);

it is LIKELY-- maybe even "highly likely" that this is a gigantic game of musical chairs, in which all of the other kids in the pool ALSO have multiple acceptances and waitlisting options on the table.

Wait a few weeks and see what opens up-- find out what dates and deadlines for commitments look like, and keep calling your top two preferred options to check in on that waitlist.

Once they know that you're that serious, they probably WILL tell you that you'll "likely" or "not likely" get off the wait list.

I wasn't specific about it, but this is why I asked if your child was on a waitlist. Our experience with choice programs in our city was that all the parents who were looking for a "something better than neighborhood" school applied for almost all of the optional programs, and many of the private programs too. Once the public optional school lottery was held and notifications were made, there was a period of a few weeks where kids on the waitlist move up quite a bit as parents decline lower choice schools if their child got into multiple schools. Then there was a second wave of declines that happened again during the first week of the school year, because there was a large group of parents who kept their child on multiple acceptance lists "just in case" (even though it was against school district policy - no one actually checked). I was really bummed after our ds' kindergarten lottery - he was #74 on the wait list for the school I really wanted to send him to (note that I can still remember that # 10 years later lol). I gave up and we sent him to the one school (out of several) that he lotteried into. Found out a few weeks later that one of his friends from preschool got into the other school - not because he got in on the first round of the lottery but because he was *#72* on the wait list until the week school started. I called the school up and found out my ds had moved up to #2 on the wait list, we left him on it, and an opening did come up for him in first grade. By that time, we'd totally changed our minds about where we wanted him anyway, but that's life

Best wishes,

polarbear

Lepa, can you tell us now what has happened with your son. I can say that there are a lot of people with similar stories who share your pain.

I can’t be too cross with the gifted schools because they’re all we have. But Nueva has a reputation for avoiding kids with too high an IQ. They are part of an oligopoly. Schools like to claim the word gifted.. they could help higher IQ kids who may be more introverted, but choose to just take the easy path with extroverted kids. Did I mention that extroversion correlates with lower IQ?

I heard of a SF kid who commutes to Helios in Sunnyvale. But Helios has a slight case of the Nueva disease too I am sorry to report.

Do think seriously about home schooling. I would do this rather than assume that moving to Palo Alto would be any panacea.

My understanding is slow processing is common in gifted, and doesn’t mean 2E. Its because they see more or are perfectionists. You might want to talk with the Gifted Development Center in San Mateo or that one in Denver. You might consider a few months of vision therapy.

Hope we hear back from you, and here is a new thread about, the entire Bay Area. http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/ubbthreads.php/topics/219385.html#Post219385

It sounds like the feedback Nueva gave you was genuine, and I have to respect that. Though I am still tempted to deconstruct it. For example that they sure don’t want any kids that are “hard to manage”. These kids may be the most gifted. They could handle them if they wanted to. If anyone has the expertise and understanding they do. But they just reject them. All the while cloaking themselves in the mantle of “serving the gifted”. Similarly, there seems some mis-alignment between their promotional material about self-directed learning, and then proceeding to grant admission to the ones who do as they’re told. They should know full well that gifted are often like this; its tantamount to another betrayal of the gifted. From members of our own gifted community who surely (one hopes) know the literature. Sorry if I'm being a little hard on Nueva, but hey research shows that we gifted have a righteous streak. Helios is not immune from some of the above either.

I feel for you, me, and many other who get started on the gifted road, feel like Nueva etc. is salvation... only to have them slam the door in your face. Its true there are only so many openings, but parts of it smack of hypocrisy. I have to feel that many in the gifted community are wounded... first by public schools... then by private schools... and by society all along. In BAGHS they don't want to talk about private schools, as if there's nothing to learn from them. I suppose it might clog up their mailing list, but really there are only a handful to discuss. I feel they are a bit reactive or have self-doubt, or that past rejection and/or costly tuition remains a sore spot.

Yelp has some interesting reviews (click through to the "not recommended reviews") of Nueva, it can really turn into a bad mushroom trip. Even if your kid gets in these schools maintain a process for "counseling out" a child who stops fitting in. The overarching problem is, out to where exactly. And the other side of this coin is that the current demand leads to power trips and distortions that accompany any (near-)monopoly. Think Comcast customer service... then imagine a balance of power where if you get too loud Comcast can cut your cord... thus the parent community becomes a bit of a farce... or sparsely populated as parents realize they should just keep their head down... nobody wants to risk giving the administration or the board any real feedback.

Its possible that your son may simply need glasses. Or something called “vision therapy” which seems pseudo-scientific but that some gifted kids seem to benefit from.

Do keep home schooling in mind. See http://www.sfbaghs.org/ (Apply when you get close to actually doing it. You can get observer status for a while but they are focused on parents actively homeschooling.)