We may be looking at a move to California from the East Coast. While the school my son goes to has a 6 out of 10 ranking on great schools, atleast they have acknowledged that he is advanced, but that there is nothing they can do about it. Added to this, we may be looking at a potentially 2E kind of scenario (his current school thinks he has attention issues).

How are schools in California (primarily, the south bay area) ? How open are they to differentiating ? Do they offer accommodations for potentially 2E kind of scenarios (attention issues)? Are there any specific schools you would recommend ? Everything I read on the internet suggests an almost unhealthy emphasis on testing from 2nd grade onward. While I am fine with testing, I am wondering if they primarily teach to the test. I know, in theory, every school has to offer FAPE, but I see a lack of information about any kind of accommodations (I have not searched extensively though). Also, are there any psychologists or neuro-psychologists you can recommend ?

While I can't say I love my kid's school, my kid seems happy enough to go to school, primarily for the extras (library, art, music, PE etc). I see a lot of schools in the south bay area have one half day every week. I also see almost no mention of art/music; any mention states it is all upto parent volunteers.

Any suggestions/recommendations ?

Umm.

We live in the South Bay. Your public school choices here are pretty bleak. California public schools are pretty bad. I called around the local school districts a few years ago and asked about gifted programs and grade skips, and didn't get a single positive answer. But one principal did imply that I wasn't letting my kid be a kid after he told me he'd never done a grade skip in 20 years and never would.

There's a public magnet school in Redwood City called North Star Academy. It's aimed at "high achieving students" and supposedly compacts the curriculum. My impression is that it might be good for kids in above average range but not for HG+ kids (but possibly better than other local schools). HOWEVER, you should check into it because I'm only looking in from the outside and have only known one parent with a child there.


You're right about the half day on Wednesday. It's so common, it's practically a standard practice. Plus they have other "minimum days" when the kids go home at noon-ish. They have a fair few of those. And don't forget "furlough" days when the schools are closed because they can't afford to open them. You're also right about the lack of art and music.

One good thing about the this area is that there are a lot of private schools and they're relatively cheap. My kids attend a wonderful small-ish private school that costs about $12K per year. They have music, art, language classes, and lots of other stuff like field trips. This is because they don't have half days and because the school day is ~45 minutes longer than the public school day (public schools are out around 2:30 here; privates end at 3 at the earliest up to 3:30). When you add up all that time, private school kids here get a whole extra day PER WEEK compared to public schools. PM me if you want more information.

ETA: the school my kids attend is also very much into ability grouping (usually three groups per class in mathematics).

Kcab, that's interesting. The middle and high schools in my district have half days and aren't terribly demanding (at least, not from what my son's friends say and not from his experience in a public charter last year).

I've got a kid in public school in not quite the South Bay, and I would say that schools vary wildly from district to district. At our school, we have a great music and PE program; there is a small art program run by the PTA, although I think most teachers try to have a frequent in-room art class.

I was able to push for individual subject acceleration for DS eventually, but it was difficult and not well supported (and now we're homeschooling him, if that tells you anything!) I know our school has supported whole-grade acceleration in certain circumstances, but it's extremely infrequent.

Our school fundraising is pretty non-pressured; I've had friends in other districts tell me they're *expected* to donate many hundreds of dollars to the school. Here, we can hope for it, but certainly don't expect it (or make public knowledge who donated).

Our district lets kids out about 90 minutes early once a week, so it's not really a half day. This was the same as the private school I went to briefly in NYC, so not a strictly Californian phenomenon. And considering the weather here is so nice so much of the time, it's 90 more minutes to spend outside playing.

Keep in mind that all of California is in the process of moving over to Common Core (supposedly all public schools are taking the CC and STAR tests next spring, followed by CC only in 2015). This means lots of changes in curriculum, stressed out teachers and administrators, and possibly not a lot of time, energy, or interest in trying to accommodate a 2E (or otherwise not middle-of-the-road) kid.

(PM me if you have more specific questions about my district.)

Thanks for the replies. Val, KnittingMama, thanks very much. I will take you up on the offer to PM, once we definitely decide to move. I am quite nervous, about the possible move, and all that it entails.

kcab, you are right. My kid is currently in K; so he will be entering first grade in the fall. Val, that is good to know about private schools, but I am a little hesitant considering a potential 2E kind of situation. Also, it will be a stretch financially, so it is something to consider as well.


This does not sound good.


This is how it is, over here. Yes, fund raisers are held, but it is not mandatory, nor does anyone know who contributes, how much etc.

I also meant to ask this -- if I show the school district the testing results, and how it compares to the rest of the K class or the 1st grade class (achievement test scores, for example or assessments performed independently by our current school), would they differentiate for strengths and accommodate for any 2E scenarios? Or, would it be going back to scratch -- requesting an evaluation and getting a new set of tests done ?

My other challenge is getting any sort of accommodations (if attention issues are found). My kid does do a whole lot better in quieter (and small group) environments, as compared to a large group (though his coping skills, even in large groups, is getting marginally better). Would you mention this to the new teachers, if you were in my place ? Or, would you wait for them to gauge for themselves ? For our current school, we did the evaluation based on his preschool teachers' feedback (we knew he was advanced, but they said something else was also going on. His K teacher thinks it is attention issues).

Thanks for all the information and suggestions. Very helpful.

Again, just speaking for my kids' school, there is almost no differentiation for lower elementary. There is some for reading (they use Accelerated Reader, which allows kids to read books at or near their level), but otherwise math, LA, and other subjects are one-size-fits-all. GATE in our district doesn't start until 4th grade.

California schools are also strapped for cash, despite promises that more money is coming one of these days. There will be no incentive to put your son in a small group environment unless he needs serious accommodations. Some schools are amenable to outside testing, others aren't. My school was resistant to testing DS; even though he was clearly unhappy and becoming a behavior problem, he was doing fine academically and therefore didn't fall under the criteria for testing (again, it's a money issue).

In terms of options-- given what you've said and what I know about class sizes in some CA-- well, really, 'west coast'-- districts--

be aware that state charter school law means that you only have access to virtual charters in some districts within the state. If you want that option, you will need to know which districts they are, and make sure that you're in-district.

You might be able to get an OOD placement, but I really, really wouldn't count on it. Those seem to be extremely rare on the entire west coast.

I mention that because if you run into a particularly refractory local administration, it may be the only way to get acceleration. GT/GATE/TAG programs typically don't begin until 3rd-5th grades out here-- barring the larger magnet programs in LA and Seattle, I mean. The rest of us basically have to do what we can with individual advocacy and piecemeal approaches.

If you can maybe look just outside of Southbay, For public schools Manhatten Beach, Rancho Palos Verdes, Irvine, Cerritos, Los Alammitos. You have to live in the city, but the public schools in these cities are a little better then most.

Direct quote from our principal, asked about the 'huge potential' DD's test scores indicated combined with mediocre performance and outright despair, and whether we can offer her anything to address her potential:
"We get asked that all the time. Unfortunately that's just not what we do here. We don't have the resources, or the responsibility, to do that."

This was the district's own testing. It's not likely to make any difference at all who does the testing, they can't do anything anyway. The budget set to pass this week eliminates all GT funding and requirements for the whole state.

We moved to a private, which I can recommend highly for HG+ or 2E.

Wow, I hadn't heard this yet.

What GT funding? The only requirements were for ID, and I don't know of any district which didn't repurpose the pitiful amount of money allocated for GATE programming for their general fund when the N-... 3? 5? round of budget cuts allowed them to do so.

We live a little farther up the peninsula than South Bay.

We have art, science, and field trips, funded by either the district's education foundation or the PTA. Fundraising is not horribly guilt tripping: the district is economically diverse and they won't push. Our school does an OK (not stellar, not enough for kids above the +2SD mark) job at differentiation in LA and math.

Different districts, sometimes bordering each other, can have completely different populations and personalities. Diverse districts will have wild variation from school to school. You might need to talk with an education consultant who knows the range of possibilities...

There are three private schools for gifted kids. They have different approaches, and tend to be expensive (25k/year?).

Yes, exactly. There was some hope that 'categoricals' like GATE would be funded again until the latest school finance changes were proposed. Now it's completely gone. Our district stopped IDing two years ago and has no intention of ever starting again.

I'm sorry if it sounds bleak, but it is. Much worse than when I was a kid in CA. Do not expect your district to do anything for gifted kids.

I'm not in CA, but have a friend who worked as a teacher in CA several years ago - fwiw, one of the things I'd want to ask about is teacher-student ratio - when my friend's school district was faced with large budget cuts several years ago one of the measures to deal with it was increasing class size and it was increased significantly larger than I've heard of anywhere else in the US. Please know I don't know if this happened elsewhere in CA, but it's definitely something I'd ask about!

And fwiw, I've lived in CA. For all the troubles with schools and all the 8 million other things people might tell you about the challenges or frustrations of living there - I would move back in a heartbeat! I loved it The schools might not be great where you are moving to, but the things you can do as a family, the places you can easily visit, the outside-of-school everything - I put a lot of weight into family life too... I think it's every bit as beneficial to our HG/EG/PG kids to have a wealth of simply being with family and having experiences as a family. OTOH, CA is expensive (cost of living) and commutes can be long.

Good luck with your school investigations -

polarbear

What area are you calling South Bay? We are in South San Jose which is usually included in South Bay. This area there are charter schools that are either chartered by the school district or the county. They names of the programs/charters do not necessarily appear on Great Schools. You might try looking at the school district sites. The Charters are usually entered by lottery with the first round going to school district residents and have a participation requirement. The Charter schools do have some advantages even if they aren't perfect matches intellectually. Such as our District has a GATE program and about 30% of the class has qualified.

The school that DS goes to also has a ranking of 6 on great schools and does not have grades or tests, but portfolio work. The first test that DS took was in 2nd grade, the NCLB standardized test. The principles of the school are differentiation in class and project based work. The PTA and fundraising support an art and music program, we do field trips and depending on the teacher science is a lot of fun. This year, 3rd grade the kids did a squid dissection.

In some ways the lack of testing actually worked against my son as the teachers did not get DS. Grouping in the class was determined by the childs oral exam of written material within a 15 minute period. So in first grade even though he was reading Wayside school stories at home he was in the lowest reading group at school. And it wasn't until the standardized test results came back that they were willing to listen to us.

Just an FYI, but the school district just north of us has a number of schools that rank 10s on Great Schools though the area just north of us is a very rich area and overall the very large school district has a lot of troubled schools.

South Bay can also refer to the region of southern CA that includes Manhattan Beach, Redondo Beach, etc.

Thanks. Yes, this helps a lot. I did start looking at charter schools but it seems that enrollment is over for the school year 2013-2014. I think I did call one of the charter schools in san jose, and this was the response I received. I also have to be honest -- I did not call every single charter school in San Jose (I called about three to four schools, and everyone was super nice on the phone, and told me to apply next year). I also apologize - I did not know that California had more than one south bay. I was referring to the south bay in the city of San Francisco. Sounds like I have a lot of reading/talking/exploring to do, considering I am pretty clueless about the area.

Rocky, I have also been looking at schools at the other town you mentioned. I know it is a super rich area, but I would appreciate some feedback on how the schools really are. The phrase "troubled schools" worries me. I am looking at some of the schools in that area, even though going to that town would probably be detrimental financially.

If you would like to PM me, instead of writing to this thread, that is okay as well.

I have been reading everyone's responses and they are all very helpful.

Ha, It's like when we lived in Brooklyn and people would refer to the City or New York City. If you lived or worked in Manhattan, the City meant Manhattan. If you lived in Long Island or New Jersey anywhere in the 5 boroughs was the City. I grew up in the Central Valley, and this area was referred to as the Bay Area. Hence, San Jose is South Bay.

It's not that enrollment is over, so much that their programs are full and probably have a waiting list. If the program wasn't full, I am sure they would still accept an intraDistrict transfer or school of choice.

The school District I was refering to is San Jose Unified and it is huge. The schools in the south (expensive areas) are rated 10s moving up to the downtown area where a couple of the schools rate a 4.

ljoy, this is an old thread, but, I am curious to know the name of this private school that you recommend for HG+ kids. Thanks!

Sending you a pm.

I don't have any advice to give regarding CA schools but would like to make an observation. It seems from reading this board that California parents of gifted children very often feel compelled to send them to expensive private schools. California has a high cost of living, even assuming one sends one's children to public schools. Paying for 12 years of private school for more than one child, in addition to college, is very expensive.

It's my impression that most (but not all) people in affluent Boston suburbs send their gifted children to public schools. We do. Most MA public schools do nothing extra for gifted kids, but parents seem to think the public schools are tolerable.

Why the difference between CA and MA?

It wouldn't make any sense to compare as large and heterogeneous an entity as "California" with a much smaller, homogeneous entity like "affluent Boston suburbs." A more valid comparison would be with Westside Los Angeles.

My understanding is that the majority of Westside residents are happy to send their kids to the local public school, and cite it as a reason for moving there.

Maybe because in several "State Education Rankings" published, MA features as one of the top states for the quality of their education system and CA was almost dead last in the ranking for the past several years?