I have been coming to this site for awhile and it has been very helpful. My husband and I are seriously considering having some formal testing done for our DD4.

The problem is I don't know if she is GT or not. I think she might be, but I just don't know what is normal for her age any more. The testing is very expensive and I am having a hard time deciding if it is warranted at this point.

Hearing all the stories about schooling experiences has me panicking a little as we try to decide where to send DD for K. in two years. We already feel very isolated from other parents. And I am not sure what we should be doing at this point.

Here is a little back ground of her milestones. I don't know which of these are relevant but we thought they were unusual.

babbling and cooing from birth, very vocal
sitting 4 months
crawling 5 months
walking and talking 8 months
16 months conversational and potty trained.
By 2 knew color, letters, numbers, wrote name
the rest is a blur. and we had two other kids in this time. When she was a baby I thought this was so unusual. Now I have three children close in age and a nephew, so it doesn't seem as unusual. I also am used to being around her so she is just my regular little daughter. The idea that she is different from other children is hard to believe although in some ways she seems different.

Now she just turned 4 she is reading and doing simple math. Which I do not know if that is so unusual.

Some of the things I think are unusual now is just her comprehension, creativity, her vocabulary. She tends to do things that seem like 1st or 2nd grade level.

My big concern is that she is very excitable very intense and a perfectionist. I have read the stuff on over excitability. I am really worried her combination of traits is going to be hard for her in a typical school setting.

We are not sure how to proceed with testing, or if we should wait until she gets to school and wait for the school to suggest something. Or even what having her tested is really going to accomplish for her.

From around two she was very empathetic and concerned about wrongs in the world like orphans and natural disasters. She still wants us to adopt a child. Her favorite book when she was three was the Hobbit which I read to her and she would retain it and have conversations about the story with us. She likes the Narnia books right now and magic tree house. She likes riddles and makes up poems. She asks questions that don't seem typical for a four year old. Like how do the nutrients in food go from your stomach to your blood, and how can oxygen and nutrients and white blood cells be in your blood at once. What do they look like. This was this mornings line of questioning. She is very intense in what ever she is curious about. She understands the concepts of gravity and time and frequently makes jokes about zero, she has talked about these concepts for a long time now. She kept asking me to find a cinnamon game on the computer for her and I did not know what she was talking about, when she found it I saw that it was a synonym game. I did not even know she knew what a synonym was. Stuff like that happens all the time with her.

It is hard to know what other children are really like at home if they are similar to our daughter when around their parents.

Some people think I just should not worry about her and that she will figure things out when she gets to school, but I am not so sure.

In your experiences was testing helpful. Dose this sound like a bright child who will be just fine at school or should we pursue testing.

Skyward,

I completely get your concerns and have the same ones and my DD is only 2 so IMHO I think you are valid to want to test especially if you are planning to send her to a public school. I have heard horror stories about waiting for the school to do the right thing and the uphill battle you will have on your hands. My plan is to test my DD when she is 4 so we have some documented evidence for when we get to the school. Of course the concern is Is 4 too soon? It depends on the child and only you would know that answer. I will watch my DD and see if she is publically willing to share information which she is starting too. Forever she would be tight lipped when out in public, but now she is talking where ever we go. She is still shy when people come up to her and sometimes she answers questions sometimes she doesn't. Things like this could effect the outcome of the test.

As for testing and how to go about it, http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/ has information about testers in different states and I am sure others could post the exact location for you.

And for your question about her being gifted: I think you know she is but you are living with her and sometimes it is just hard to step back and observe her in a neutral way. We all go through that. Some days I wonder if I am imagining things to be more than what they are.

I am sure a lot of people could give an argument for not testing, but if yours relates to preparation for school I think it is a solid reason to go for it. You might even find recommendation for starting her next year instead of waiting an additional year.

I always say that you should test when you have specific reasons to test. If having test scores in hand will help you with school plans, then I'd say do it when she's old enough.

I don't think I would bother before age 4, and if you can wait until age 6, you have more testing options with higher ceilings. But if you need to info before K, then I'd go with age 4.

It's interesting because around here I think a lot of people wait so patiently for that third grade test and depend on the school to let them know if their child is GT.

That never made much sense to me, but I'm the kind of a specialist snob. I've had the same pediatrician for 8 years and he knows me and likes me. But the 10 ped's I "interviewed" before I found Dr. Right probably aren't so fond of me.

Advocating at school can be an uphill battle with or without a previous gt eval. Or it can be a great experience. There's no real good way to tell until you get there.

For us, it was so very useful to get testing done before real school, because we would not have had any idea that our kid was more than a little gifted and would need special attention when school comes around. Heck, I didn't even know there were different levels of giftedness much before testing. And if you have a HG+ kid, it's nice to go through some of the 12 steps (denial, disbelief, acceptance, etc) before school! It also explains some of the weirdness at preschool. And best of all, it helps us to advocate even before DS gets to our local public school by meeting with the gifted coordinator to get her recommendations for placement with the right out-of-the-box teacher. But, as we are not quite actually IN school yet, it remains to be seen how useful the advance paperwork really is. At the very least, we will know to be on the lookout for red flags.

(On an unrelated note - Neato -i recently realized that I am also a specialist snob, now that you mention it. Someone asked who my primary care doc was, and I said "i guess I only see specialists" then blushed.)

It's unusual. Early reading doesn't guarantee that a child is gifted, but I'm sure there is a strong correlation. Same with math. The standards in our area for entrance into K includes the desire that children can recognize letters out of order. By the end of K they hope to have them doing 1:1 counting of objects up to 10. Your daughter sounds gifted, but I am far from an expert.


It'll take a while to get over the GT-denial part of that. It's natural and also probably a good thing to a degree. You're acknowledging that you have healthy skepticism. A lot of us don't have good reference points because our kids have always been like this

We tested before K (at 5.5) and we did that so that (a) we could determine if DS was better placed in K or first grade, and (b) find out where we think he might be on the spectrum. We're still not 100% sure of that, but that's another discussion. I suppose reason (c) was to help get of GT-denial which I'm happy to say I'm recovering from nicely. So it helped us, but it's only the beginning. That is probably true for you too. If you do decide to do testing, it's likely to leave you with more questions that answers.

We were in a similar situation, so to answer your question we did find it mostly helpful. Four might be a little on the young side, but if you're considering private pre-K/K programs maybe not.

JB

And not just the kids, JBDad, but the WHOLE FAMILY and probably even the friends you hang out with. It's funny how much GTness seems to run in packs.

Yeah, in my family I can point to people on both my and my wife's side that are in the gifted spectrum. (And I tested borderline as a child.)

JB

Thanks everyone, here is why we are considering testing:

So far we have talked to three school districts, the only three near us.

The big question is what to do for school. Start her early, K next fall at 4-5. Which the schools around here will not allow because she is too far past the cut off. Plus she is extremely high energy so I don't think it would be a good idea.

Our home school is not at all open to grade skips, they have no GT programs and a very low expectation curriculum. No enrichments. And a very conformist style.

The second school was a private religious school very small. She started preschool with them at 2. We had concerns because they would make comments to us like, she counted to three when she was counting to 30 at home. Or she needs to work on name recognition and writing her name when she was reading and writing site words at home. When I brought this up at conferences. They said the special ed lady would observe her. Then the next year they put her in a younger class, which is her real age class, so she could have time to gain more maturity.

The third school we have been leaning towards has a prek program that they strongly suggest the kids do before K. The administrator said the K classes were more challenging, so it was a good idea to take pre K. This school said that they try to group by ability with in the age grade of K. So they do not start them early. My husband observed the preK last year and said she was already doing that stuff at home at 3. She just started a preschool class with this district recently. I have to decide by February if I will put her in the preK next fall. And K the following year. This school seems like the best option of the three. So I really do not want to burn any bridges.

She has been in preschool for a couple weeks at this new place. Again they do not seem to know where she is at. She also has been saying that she will not read or do math at school, any schools because they do not do that stuff there and four year olds do not do stuff like that. She is also starting to ask us why her friends don't do the stuff she is doing.

I do not know how to approach the school about my concerns with out putting my DD on the spot. I also have no evidence to back me up. I feel like this school is our best option and I don't want to mess it up.

Also thanks to the posts I talked to our moms and I found out from our parents that both me and my husband were tested as children pretty young and were in the GT range. Also a brother on his side and my brother, uncle and grandfather.
My parents did not know what average IQ was and still do not believe me.

My mom said that she was just told to read to me a lot and take me to museums. My parents turned down a grade skip for fear of social issues when I was 7. I had a very hard time in school.

These are just some of the reasons buzzing around my head that make me think I should have her tested.

Hi Skyward,
Wish I had the magic answer...How does DD feel about school? Any signs of stress from being underplaced? Does she even need to be in school right now?

LOL about parents not knowing what average IQ was and not believing you. It took me about 3 years with my Mom. Gifted Denial Apples don't fall far from the tree.

((hugs))
Grinity

HI, despite all my concerns DD currently likes her preschool. She would go 7 days a week if we let her. I talked to her teacher and she was very receptive and seemed to take my concerns seriously.

I think she is probably under placed, but under placed and playing two hours a couple times a week for now might be better than accelerated and then starting real school sooner with us not having the option to go back to before school days.I have thought about early K. Today at least I am leaning towards keeping her home as long as I can. As long as we can smooth out the bumps and challenge these thoughts as they emerge I hope she will be ok. She seems to be doing better after we talked to her.
I am still on an on going quest to find the right school setting for her before she gets there which I realize is probably unrealistic.

I am concerned about having her tested after she completely did not cooperate at her eye appointment this week. She refused to tell the guy what the letters were and whined and took off her eye patch. She was disgruntled and uncooperative from the get go. Lucky she did not need glasses yet because I doubt she would wear them any way. After this week I wonder if I should wait until she is older for testing.

I have to be honest, that I have heard stories of kids who did not cooperate. But I think that they are quite rare, particularly if you find a tester who is very familiar with gifted and the levels of gifted. The tests are designed to be fun, and many of the testers are 'good with kids.'

Since she likes her current preschool, and it's only 2 hours a few times a week, and 'talking to her' about reading worked, there doesn't seem to be a rush to test her. I would rush, however to locate the tester you would want to use, and find out how long the waiting list is.

Is your daughter old or young for her grade? What % of the kids at the school are kept back so that will be 'old for grade'? (I would ask this at each school and really expect an answer.)

Would she be going to Kindy next year or the year after? Is the kindy program half day and playbased or full day and 'learning, but not at her readiness level' based? Is partial homeschooling allowed in your state?

Early K seems very helpful in the long run if you are dealing with a system that is rigid, or a kid who is chomping at the bit. Keeping her home as much and as long as possible is very appealing in my book.

Best Wishes,
Grinity

In an effort to save you stress, have you read Hoagies' article on the "Least-Worst" school option? I think it should be required reading for anyone school hunting: http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/least-worst.htm

That's not to say that you shouldn't look hard for something ideal. Turn over all the rocks you can to see what options you can find, and you may find something fabulous.

But eventually you'll have found all your options, and chances are better than even (to be optimistic) that none will be perfect for your DD. Even so, you're still going to have to make a choice and put her somewhere. This article is very helpful for choosing among not-perfect options to get the best fit in the real-world.

I think it also helps to keep in mind that very few decisions are truly irreversible when it comes to education. You may have to experiment a bit to find something that works. And often, just when you think you have the system perfectly tuned, your child will change, nothing works anymore, and you need to do something completely different. What works today will probably be woefully inadequate in 6 months. It's a little maddening, but knowing that this is coming helps keep you sane! (More or less...)

BTW, I think you've found a good solution with pre-K now. This is especially accurate, I think:


At least, that was our experience, too. It wasn't until full-day, highly academic 1st grade that DS7 hit the wall. He was similarly underplaced through pre-K and K, but it worked for him anyway thanks to differentiation and play-based, half-day programs. Early entrance is a great option for some, certainly, but if there's no great school solution awaiting them in elementary school, then I think there's also merit in not rushing to get to that poor fit.

Ah, it's so hard!

Thanks great info.

HTH!

Thanks the hoagies pages was really helpful. The first school has been surprisingly helpful lately. I found out they have a GT teacher who takes the kids to do one on one stuff as needed. The K at this school is also reading and doing more math (add. and sub.) than our in district school. They start screening for possible GT in K. The problem is it is hard to convince these schools of what she is doing at home. Even advanced programs seem not very challenging. No one wants to start her early because she literally can not sit still. Today she started doing fractions, got it as soon as I showed her and got every one right, but bounced talked and was spinning in the chair while she did it. At the end of the program we were using, for 1st graders. she said that was easy and ran off to play. I am going to read Ruf's book over the holiday.

How much is "as needed?"

Not to be negative, but we had this same set-up at our public school. It translated to DS7 (then 5.5 to 6.5) seeing the GT teacher once a year! She was simply spread too thin to be of any use. She sent home a packet of stuff for me to do with him, but nothing in the packet was high on his list of stuff to do for his afterschooling time. I had better, more appropriate materials for him.

I'm not saying this is what you're looking at, but I've learned to be skeptical of statements like "as needed." Your notion and the school's notion for what that means may be VERY different!

Thanks everyone,

Sorry about the incoherency of my posts and getting off track, I tend to think out loud.

Ok I have a plan, at least for the moment. I am going to observe all three schools preK and K classes this winter to try and see first hand what we have to work with. Then mabe we will find a least-worst fit before K?

I ordered Ruffs book, but it never came.
I did read Genius Denied, Wow! I never knew other teenagers also read Dostoyevsky. Or that it was unusual to read Dostoyevsky as a kid. All I can say about Genius Denied, is yeah! It makes me think it is not an over reaction to try and figure some of this stuff out for our muffin cakes.

Thanks for lots of good advise and things to think about.

I read a book on IQ testing by David Palmer called Parent's Guide to IQ Testing that was very helpful. It sounded like the IQ test was more reliable at around age 7. I also liked the way they gave examples of highly accomplished people who's IQ's weren't in the profound range, like physicist Richard Feyman. My husband and I are trying to get our school to test our son, now that he is in kindergarten. They agreed to test him for reading level with the school's reading teacher and I am now pushing for math testing but I would like the IQ and achievment tests but the school psychologist claims never to have had anyone ask her for testing for a bright child; only for learning disabilities. I think the school is trying to meet my son's needs without formal IQ testing (there is no formal gifted program) and they keep trying to claim that the individual teacher can meet the needs of the range of abilities in the class. I doubt that with 24 kids in his class and no assistant for the teacher. They are going to pull him out to work with the reading teacher and I continue to do what I can at home but it seems silly since he is in school for 6 hours.

Like you, I have a son that was obviously way above the "norm". I tried to have him early admitted to K and was refused. I homeschooled him for about a year. When it came time for him to enter K, I decided it was pointless based on the work he was doing at home. He still had not been tested, but with him it didn't take a number to know he wasn't regular.

About 5 months into the school year I was approached by the diagnostician at the school while I was there on business with another child (I'm a foster parent) She asked me about my son having heard about him from one of my other children. I explained that I had to homeschool as there didn't seem to be a program available for him. She asked me if I would consider enrolling him if they could design one. I agreed to look at what they put together.

Three months later, he is happily ensconced in a public school that has bent over backwards to meet his needs. They did require that he be tested and he is PG. He goes to 5 different classes over the course of the day ranging from K-5. All of this from a school that absolutely refused to consider early admittance to K.

I guess my point is, don't take anything as set in stone. My state has very limited gifted resources, but it only takes one person to be willing to give your child what she needs. I wouldn't worry about having her tested until you really need to. After all, you already know, don't you. You wouldn't be on this forum otherwise and a number isn't going to change that.

Good Luck!

Wow BWBShari - what an experience! So glad you stuck to your guts and so glad that that 'one other person' found a way to met your child's needs! Yippee!
Grinity

What a great story. You go, Mom. What a lucky set of children you have under your wing.