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Posted By: ash Woodcock-Johnson help understand test scores - 03/15/12 02:14 AM
Hi,
This is very confusing to me. I have the Battery III
and Part 1-test of Cognitive Abilities
Part II-test of Achievement.

Mostly concerned with math scores for subject acceleration:
son tested Broad Math: 159, Math calc skills: 159 Math Fluency: 152. also very high in Cognitive Abilites such as auditory process, broad attention, thinking ability--lot of very Superiors.
What does this mean? Is this considered gifted. We are planning on having him take the SCAT as well. Wondering if we need to do the WISC also.

Any help would be appreciated. I am lost.

thanks. ASH
Those are all VERY gifted achievement scores, are their similar scores in the cognitive section? If so it's time to start filling out your DYS application.

The more details you post here the more help people will be able to provide. I don't know much about the WJ other than that broad Math score is well into the range for DYS.
Can you post all the scores? That might help people give you more targeted feedback. Have you done an IQ test?
ASH, each of my kids has taken the WJ-III Cognitive Abilities test. Were you given scores for the Cog battery along with the "very superior" etc descriptions? The reports I have list a set of descriptive terms such as "average, high average, superior, very superior" to group scores - Very Superior can mean any score from 131 to the test limit.

You should also get a "GIA" # from the WJ-III Cog Abilities test that is similar to FSIQ on the WISC.

There is a standard report form for the WJ-III that you should be able to get from your tester that lists all subtests and groupings of test by category, and includes (for each) things like Standardized Score, Percentile, Grade Equivalent etc. I don't think you should need to redo the WISC unless there is a program that you're trying to get your child into that requires it. We have both the WISC and WJ-III for our 2e ds12 - he scored slightly higher on the WJ-III but hit hard ceilings on the WISC.

It's jmo, but I have found that overall the information I got out of the WJ-III Cognitive battery, particularly when combined with the achievement sections, gave me a better understanding of how my kid's brains work and how they learn best.... but otoh, two of my three kids are 2e and the non-2e child has her own set of challenges. I'd guess from your ds' achievement scores that there are no concerns about 2e!

Best wishes,

polarbear

Originally Posted by Catalana
Have you done an IQ test?

The WJ-III Cognitive Abilities is an IQ test.

polarbear

Polarbear,

Thanks for clarifying. I have a lot to learn! Catalana
Originally Posted by Catalana
I have a lot to learn! Catalana

Probably no where near as much as I have left to learn wink

smile

polarbear
Posted By: ash Re: Woodcock-Johnson help understand test scores - 03/15/12 07:53 PM
He was 6 when he took these tests, he is now almost 9,so maybe I should do the WISC??? He was also sick, which I am not sure matters, evidently he did very well on the area we thought he would which was math, and some other areas which were surprising.

All the information is on the report RPI, PR, SS, Functioning Level, and Grade.

Thanks for all your help. Any other thoughts keep them coming.

Posted By: ash Re: Woodcock-Johnson help understand test scores - 03/15/12 07:56 PM
What is 2E???
Twice exceptional - gifted, plus a disability, usually a learning disability (dyslexia, ADHD, Asperger's, whatever)
Originally Posted by ash
He was 6 when he took these tests, he is now almost 9,so maybe I should do the WISC??? He was also sick, which I am not sure matters, evidently he did very well on the area we thought he would which was math, and some other areas which were surprising.

All the information is on the report RPI, PR, SS, Functioning Level, and Grade.

Thanks for all your help. Any other thoughts keep them coming.
It sounds like one of your goals is to learn more in general, another one is to determine if a gradeskip is a good idea. Gifted is often considered scores over 130. Usually these sorts of tests are created in such a way so that the average score is 100, and the Standard Deviation is between 14 and 16 (usually 15.)

http://www.techbookreport.com/tutorials/stddev-30-secs.html

So the scores don't actually measure 'how smart' someone is, but rather, how unusual it is to score x number right at a particular age. And of course, kids who score an unusal number right for their age and usually quite smart.

A kid who scores 115 is more unusual than 84% of kids her age,
A kid who scores 130 is more unusual than 98% of kids her age,
A kid who scores 145 is more unusual than 99.9% of kids her age, in that particular area, be it height or correct answers on a vocabular test.

http://www.google.com/imgres?start=225&um=1&hl=en&sa=N&biw=1024&bih=567&addh=36&tbm=isch&tbnid=Z-0Y0NIDi4YnuM:&imgrefurl=http://www.pearsonassessments.com/pai/ai/research/resources/Glossary.htm&docid=-ttrTCdGfefKNM&imgurl=http://www.pearsonassessments.com/hai/images/NR/curve.gif&w=345&h=206&ei=P1NiT6buFYrb0QH2q_yOCA&zoom=1&iact=rc&dur=265&sig=116151818675506023287&page=20&tbnh=131&tbnw=219&ndsp=12&ved=1t:429,r:8,s:225&tx=111&ty=77

As you can see, most kids clump in the so called 'meaty middle' and over at the 'tail' where you child is in math and 'little bit more unusual' makes a big difference in just how unusual a kid is.

I hope that helps. If you main worry is the gradeskip, then find out from the school what they would need to do to assure themselves that it's the right thing and go with that (ok, post it here to make sure it's reasonable first)

If it's hard to find social friends who are similar to your kid, or a way to hang out (network) with other parents who might be facing similar challenges, then joining some kind of group might be a good idea, and having up to date documentation might be helpful. As children get older, the tests aren't as good at having quite enough test items that are hard enough to really show how unusual a child is, so 8 to 9 is a good age. This is too bad for us, but understandable due to 'how unusual' our kids actually are.

My guess is that if you take the time to type details about what is confusing and what are your concerns and hopes, just that alone will make everything less confusing. Having a group of 'neighbors' who can say, 'oh yes, we had to overcome that, too.' makes our minds work better. My guess is that you probably don't have too many local friends who are right in the middle of raising kids that you can freely share with, because most people have very fixed (and mistaken) ideas about what 9 year olds need to be like. I've often said that my son was on an 'alternate' developmental path to remind myself that there is a difference between saying that '98% of x year olds do _________' and 'All x year olds do _______' and if your kid is part of that 2% it can be a very big difference.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

It looks like you're looking to subject-accelerate in math? I think you have what you need already without further testing, just need to figure out how to "package" and present it when you talk to your ds' school. When we advocated to subject accelerate our ds in math, this is what we used:

1) IQ/ability score - it sounds like you have your full WJ-III report - look for a number called the "GIA" - that's your ds' IQ according to the WJ-III. Since he had a lot of "Very Superiors" I'm guessing his GIA is at a minimum above the 98th percentile, which is unarguably a gifted IQ.

2) Math achievement scores - your ds has tremendous scores! No worries there smile If he's had any state testing yet or other in-school testing where he has high scores, you can use them too ... but... you shouldn't need to with the WJ-III scores he has.

3) Proof of math ability through work ds had done at home - I don't think you should need this, but if you do, try to tie examples of what he's capable of to state standards or your district's curriculum standards at the grade level (or above) that you're trying to accelerate him to. You might not have to do this step but we had an ornery school we were dealing with!

Good luck!

polarbear
Posted By: ash Re: Woodcock-Johnson help understand test scores - 03/27/12 01:24 PM
OK finally had a chance to write all these scores into a document
TABLE OF SCORES: WJ III Tests of Cognitive Abilities

Cluster AE RPI PR SS(68%Band) Grade

PHONEMIC AWARE >28 100/90 >99.9 221(211-232) 18.9
AUDITORY PROCESS Ga) >25 100/90 >99.9 197(183-211) 18.9
PHONEMIC AWARE III >28 100/90 >99.9 176(170-182) 18.9
BROAD ATTENTION 15-2 100/90 >99.9 165(159-171) 9.9
WORKING MEMORY 17-9 100/90 >99.9 158(154-163) 12.5
THINKING ABILITY 15-3 99/90 >99.9 154(149-158) 9.6
GIA 10-2 99/90 99.9 145(142-148) 4.9
VERBAL ABILITY 10-9 100/90 99 137(132-141) 5.3
COMP-KNOWLEDGE 10-9 100/90 99 137(132-141) 5.3
SHORT TERM MEM 11-9 100/90 98 130(125-136) 6.4
COG EFFICIENCY 8-7 99/90 97 129(125-133) 3.2
FLUID REASONING 10-0 100/90 97 128(125-132) 4.5
KNOWLEDGE 9-2 99/90 95 125(121-130) 4
L-T RETRIEVAL 8-5 95/90 94 123(118-129) 2.7
EXEC PROCESSES 8-3 97/90 93 122(118-125) 2.8
VIS-SPATIAL THINK 10-5 97/90 93 122(117-126) 5.3
PROCESS SPEED 7-6 98/90 87 117(114-120) 2.1
COGNITIVE FLUENCY 7-6 96/90 78 111(109-114) 2.2

Cognitive Subtests
Incomplete Words >33 100/90 >99.9 257(239-275) 18.9
Auditory Attention >20 100/90 >99.9 181(161-202) 18.9
Auditory Work Memory >22 100/90 >99.9 173(168-178) 18.9
Sound Blending >36 100/90 >99.9 173(164-182) 18.9
General Information 11-9 100/90 99.6 139(133-146) 6.2
Verbal Comprehension 9-11 99/90 98 130(124-136) 4.4
Concept Formation 11-1 100/90 97 129(124-134) 5.2
Numbers Reversed 12-2 100/90 96 127(121-132) 6.6
Analysis Synthesis 9-1 99/90 94 123(118-129) 3.8
Memory for Words 11-4 100/90 93 123(115-130) 6.2
Retrieval Fluency 9-10 94/90 93 122(116-128) 4.2
Posted By: ash Re: Woodcock-Johnson help understand test scores - 03/27/12 01:26 PM
part 2

TABLE OF SCORES: WJ III Tests of Cognitive Abilities

Cluster AE RPI PR SS(68%Band) Grade

Spatial Relations 11-3 98/90 91 120(115-125) 6.5
Visual Matching 7-7 99/90 87 117(114-121) 2
Spatial Relations 7-11 95/90 91 115(110-121) 2.2
Spatial Relations 9-10 97/90 91 115(109-120) 4.4
Spatial Relations 7-6 97/90 91 112(107-116) 2.1
Spatial Relations 7-5 96/90 91 110(108-113) 2
Rapid Picture Naming 7-3 96/90 91 105(104-107) 2

Cognitive Subtests
Planning 5-1 86/90 28 91(86-96) K2

WJIII TESTS OF ACHIEVEMENT

MATH CALC SKILLS 10-0 100/90 >99.9 159(155-164) 4.5
BROAD MATH 9-11 100/90 >99.9 159(155-163) 4.3
MATH REASONING 9-9 100/90 99.7 141(138-145) 4.2
TOTAL ACHIEVMENT 8-3 100/90 99.6 140(138-142) 2.9
ACADEMIC SKILLS 8-3 100/90 99.6 140(137-142) 3
BASIC READING SKILLS 8-4 100/90 99 135(133-137) 3
BROAD READING 8-2 100/90 99 134(132-136) 2.8
READING COMP 8-9 100/90 99 133(131-136) 3.3
BASIC WRITING SKILLS 7-11 100/90 98 132(128-136) 2.6
ACADEMIC FLUENCY 8-7 99/90 98 130(127-132) 3.2
PHON/GRAPH KNOW 8-4 100/90 97 129(127-131) 2.9
ACADEMIC APPS 7-10 99/90 96 126(123-130) 2.4
ORAL EXPRESSION 9-7 97/90 93 122(116-128) 4
BROAD WRITTEN LANG 7-4 98/90 91 120(115-124) 1.8
ORAL LANG 8-2 97/90 86 116(112-119) 2.6
ACADEMIC KNOWLE 7-6 96/90 77 111(106-117) 2.3
WRITTEN EXPRESSION 6-11 95/90 76 111(104-118) 1.7
LISTENING COMP 7-5 96/90 75 110(106-114) 1.8
TABLE OF SCORES:

Cluster AE RPI PR SS(68%Band) Grade

Achievment Subtests

Math Fluency 10-9 99/90 >99.9 159(155-164) 5.4
Calculation 9-8 100/90 >99.9 149(144-154) 4.1
Quantitative Concepts 9-10 100/90 >99.9 147(141-152) 4.3
Applied Problems 9-9 100/90 99.7 142(136-147) 4.1
Reading Vocabulary 12-0 100/90 99 138(135-140) 6.6
Letter-word Identification 8-4 100/90 98 132(130-134) 3
Word Attack 8-6 100/90 98 130(127-132) 3.1
Editing 8-9 100/90 98 130(125-134) 3.4
Reading Fluency 8-6 100/90 97 129(125-134) 3.2
Picture Vocabulary 10-7 99/90 96 127(121-133) 4.9
Spelling 7-7 100/90 94 123(119-127) 2
Punctuation & Capitals 7-6 99/90 92 121(113-129) 2.1
Passage Comprehension 7-6 100/90 91 120(117-124) 2.1
Spelling of Sounds 8-1 99/90 90 120(116-123) 2.6
Writing Fluency 7-9 98/90 86 116(110-123) 2.5
Sound Awareness 7-7 98/90 84 115(111-119) 2.1
Understanding Directions 7-5 96/90 76 111(107-115) 1.8
Academic Knowledge 7-6 96/90 77 111(106-117) 2.3
Oral Comprehension 7-1 92/90 61 104(102-114) 1.7
Story Recall 6-5 89/90 46 99(102-114) 1.2
Handwriting 6-4 - 47 99(102-114) 1

TEST OF LANGUAGE DEVELOPMEN (TOLD-4)

sum of scaled scores percentile rank index score descriptive term
31 98 131 Very Superior




Was your child having trouble hearing the day he took the test? It seems to me that many of the areas where he scored closer to the "average" range required a hearing component.
Posted By: ash Re: Woodcock-Johnson help understand test scores - 03/28/12 03:31 PM
WOW that is interesting. He did have a high fever that day.
We called to try to reschedule but it became crazy so we just took him.

But that said, he does have issues with writing, I think once he they allow him to use keyboard it will be better, but his brain goes faster then his hand and he makes many mistake uses the wrong words etc. I don't know if that is some type of learning disability or not. If he has time to read it over and does it SLOWLY he can catch all his mistakes.
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