Hi
I have a few questions on the DYS application. I have been avoiding the DYS application for at least 2 years, oops! My ds12 has qualifying achievements scores from Explores and ACT. I'll have SAT later this spring. He more than qualifies on his Achievement test. We have an appointment set with a psychologist that works with only GT kids to talk about potential testing for him. I don't have IQ testing. I don't really want IQ testing but I might just need it. I am think of just applying with portfolio items and testing only if they need more information. His ACT scores & Explore scores are high enough, I would guess at the least they will just ask for more information. I think his work is sufficient enough to show his abilities. I have no reference to normal grade level work. DH and I probably are not impressed with work others would consider very impressive.

I'm wondering a few things from those more experienced in the process. Letters of recommendation, Do they really only want one? I have 2 teachers that really get my ds12. They both can offer different perspectives about him and I hate to have choose between them. Can I send 2 letters of recommendation?

Second, I have work from ages 4 to 12 for him. Should I consider summiting stuff from each year of school? For example, I have handwritten samples from 5 yrs old. Where he was supposed to draw a picture for his journal. He used the drawing space to write a paragraph about his weekend. I have a short stories from age 6. I have science projects from 7 or 8. Once he hit 9 yrs old almost all of his stuff is typed on the computer. I do have copies with teachers comments and scores on it. I have papers (10 pages or so in length) from age 11 - "Sir Isaac Newton: Great Science" and another "Atomic Structures and Their Role in The Periodic Tablet."
I can copy pages from his math notebook from this year. He is in Algebra 1, I don't know if that is consider 2 years ahead or not. It took until 11 to get a grade skip for Math. He skipped 2 years in Math. What is the normal grade level of Algebra 1? I could give him some Geometry or Algebra 2 questions to work and submit that. I also have his World History Blog that he currently is doing.
Is it helpful to have a range of years of work and his current work? Do the type of samples I'm talking about seem appropriate? I'm a nervous wreck about getting this together. I think I suffer from Impostor Syndrome more than ds12,UGH! I really want to avoid the IQ testing. DS12 has asked about getting IQ testing done. He has never cared, but this year a teacher told him scores he had on a test and now he is curious. He has never know a score on anything until she told him! I am concern about how a number could impact him. There is NO way to test him and not have him understand exactly what test he is taking. Of course, The cost of testing is high. I'd rather use that money to pay for activities for him.
I'm thinking his portfolio could be enough with his Achievement scores. We are so used to his level of work I don't think we gauge it well anymore.

Ok Thanks for any and all input!

Jtooit

I'd send the extra letter, as it will probably help paint a more full picture of your son. I wouldn't send items more than about 2-3 years old, unless they're really spectacular, and none as far back as 7 years ago. Instead I'd provide a full narrative of his progression, early milestones, etc. in your written portion of the application. Get creative on ways to show what he can do and what he knows; for example, lots of parents submit videos of their children speaking in depth about areas of interest.

Regarding math, I'd provide samples of his current schoolwork. These will not count against him, as I understand it, especially since Davidson must be familiar with the problem of not getting enough acceleration. I think having do some more advanced work is a fine idea.

Thanks for the replies.
Some of the earlier work I am torn on it. It's handwritten work, which I don't have a lot of handwritten work, and it's complete stories with great plots, developed story line, perfect spelling and grammar. It is easy to see how far ahead of his peers he was even at 5. On the other hand it is old work. He is strong in Math, but not in his placements. I think I will copy his math from his current notebook and give him some higher level work sheets to do for them. Even after the skips in Math, ds says, "I only get things wrong when I don't give attention to the details". He can mostly definitely do more. I might be able to talk him to making a video on his flip cam for me, If I beg:) He strengths are fairly well rounded but Reading/Writing and Science are his real stand outs. I think his writing in Science and just his fiction works are probably the best display of his talents.
Hence why I wanted the Science teacher and the English teacher to both wrote letters for him. I think I will send both. The English teacher has 3 grown HG to PG children of her own. She said to me this morning to get going already! It can't be all in head, right?
Thanks again, I'm just need a push off the ledge to jump in and go already!

I love this forum.

Thanks
Jtooit

Hi Jtooit,

We have two Young Scholars, the youngest was accepted last year around this time. I haven't looked to see if the application has changed since then, but we sent in several letters of recommendation for her.

She has test anxiety and her score was not representative of her IQ based on the letter the tester wrote, so I felt we needed a very strong portfolio. We sent samples from age 5 through 8, only choosing items that seemed extreme.

In terms of math, I would have him work on something at the highest level he can, unassisted, and add that to the portfolio. The more handwritten work you can include, the better, IMHO. Best of luck and well wishes to you during the application process!

Incogneato

PUSH

Smiles,
G

Lol Thanks Grinity! You are my second PUSH today. His GT writing teacher has 3 grown up GT kids of her own ranging from hg to pg. She told me to get on with it already today. Just what I needed to hear. She is one of his letters of recommendation, Yay!

Our district has the kids in the gt program using computers from 8 or 9 onward. He has very little handwritten work in any subject other than Math. I do have typed papers that have been graded. I have papers first to last draft with handwritten comments by him and the teacher on all of the drafts. He usually needs minimal revisions and his teachers handwritten comments do reflect that. I hope that is sufficient. I suppose I could have him write a paper by hand, too. His papers are normally at least 10 pages in length on the computer. It would be an unpleasantly long task for him to write by hand. My dh (the math whiz in the house) is going to give him a higher level math worksheet this weekend. They didn't do any acceleration in Math until last year. He got back to back skips in Math.

If all else fails, I can go through with the testing. My dh & I have a meeting with the gt psychologist in a few weeks to talk about possible testing. It's not off the table to consider testing. I can't imagine DYS would not at least ask for more information based on the achievement scores from ACT & Explore.

Thanks Again! I can feel the motivation and courage creeping up:)

Jtooit

I sent in multiple recommendations... I guess I'm paranoid. It worked out fine. Best to you.

Corrected typewritten papers are perfectly fine for a 12 year old...particularly with process notes from the teacher. Particularly if the paper is 10 sheets long.
Smiles
Grinity

What's funny I don't see his papers as that long or over the top. Everyone else that reads them does Shows what a good judge I am!

Update! Thanks for all of the input and support. I love this place! We ultimately ended up doing WISC-IV after meeting with the GT psychologist. I have all of the portfolio information gathered should they ask for more info. The psychologist made very strong points about why testing would be good for us as his advocates. He was so correct in that line of thinking. I feel super relieved to finally have it all on paper. I can stop second guessing where DS's LOG might be.

After waiting for his full report on WISC-IV, I submitted his completed DYS application this morning and now the long wait begins, Sigh.

Hooray for you! Once you got the ball rolling, you sure got a lot done in a short period of time.

So - did you find the IQ testing a benifit? You were reluctant at first - has that changed? Do you feel that your yard stick was wrong or the test was wrong? It takes a while to wrap one's mind around how unusual one's child is - partially when the child doesn't look that smart to you - what does this mean about the other children?

Grinity

My yard stick is worthless! I found the testing to be the best decision. At 2, he was reading things he had never seen before in newspapers and magazines. I knew that he was gifted. It was not memorization, but actual reading. I knew we didn't teach him to read. I just never could wrap my mind around his possible LOG and clearly didn't understand the differences in MG to PG. I was definitely suffering from Impostor Syndrome with him. In bred fear of being one of those crazy mothers that has no perspective about their children absolutely kept me from doing this sooner. Fear of him knowing a number and defining himself by it. Fear of being wrong about him. I think I always had the gut reaction that he was different but all my kids are different and it is my normal. Just a lot of reluctance on my part and even more on DH's part.


My DS19 is MG and severely dyslexic with an autoimmune disorder. It was a very different experience with DS12 from birth. DS12 was the kid with his nose in a book at summer camp while other kids were playing ball. All three of my DC are so different it's never an apples to apples comparison. DD5 is not doing what DS12 or DS19 was doing at 5, but she has her own stuff going on. At 18 months, she came in the kitchen one day crying holding her arm. I asked what happen to you? She responded telling me her brother hit her. I responded by reminding her he was at school! She stopped crying immediately, huffed, put her hands on her hips, and stormed out of the room. I fairly comfortable saying she will hold her own with the boys. She will be tested next year or so. The Dr got on us about testing her after meeting DS12 and her together one day. She does great at school and fits in beautifully. If I had to guess ( with my worthless yard stick) with her, I'd say she is mostly likely optimally gifted. She just seems so well rounded compared to her brothers.

The first meeting with the GT psychologist was minding bending for us. He saw the ACT & Explore scores and said immediately he is mostly likely EG/PG range. We didn't expect that response from him without cognitive testing. We figured he would agree some giftedness was evident but not EG/PG just on achievement testing. Dr's opinion was you have to test him to be able to advocate for him. Good thing we had a week between appointments because it really took that long to absorb it even before the testing occurred.


When the testing came back, DH was speechless, I was more stressed and relieved at the same time. I was relieved because my gut was correct and he really was EG/PG. I don't know the cut off difference between EG/PG. I knew between his ACT and WISC-IV scores that he absolutely belongs in DYS. I filled out the application and just waited for the full report from the Dr. It was so much easier to do once I saw his WISC-IV results. I didn't second guess it or wonder if I was writing good enough information. I just felt confident writing the DYS application. I just have a clear picture of him now without second guessing my judgement about his LOG. I felt empowered by the results.

I completely agree with our Dr about advocating better. It's so much easier to go to the school with this type of information. DS12 is hearing impaired and has an IEP for him accommodations with seating and FM. We had IEP meeting on Monday. I sent a letter 2 weeks before the meeting to the team and informed them we would be asking for subject acceleration and laying out all of his test scores. It probably helped that his ACT was higher then their HS senior average Our district does has a policy for acceleration, but I have never really heard of it being used. I guess they do use the policy but they try to be very stealth about it. As to not attract Helicopters and Tigers to the principles office. The test results from his ACT and WISC-IV were exactly the ammo needed for us. My stress was because his current placement was no longer acceptable given what I now knew. If the school was unwilling to do more than I couldn't leave him there. We do have a nice gifted language arts program from 4th grade to 8th grade and the writing part is completely individual levels of ability. The math was status quo until 6th grade. He skipped the 6th grade math and 8th grade math, at least the standard sequence here. He was still bored this year after to straight math skips and the GT language arts. He only really enjoys his Chinese class and Orchestra. We met with the school for his IEP meeting. They initially started out with the annual "every year brings harder levels" speech. I smiled and nodded my head. Thankfully the principle jumped in and said, "Your son is a sponge and kids like him are nearly impossible to challenge, but I'll do my best."
I think I actually let out audible sigh.

She is asked him to do online Honors Geometry over the summer at CTY or CTD. He will be at HS in the morning next year doing Honors Algebra 2, Honors Biology, & Honors C,P,E. He will be at the middle school in the afternoons for his GT Language Arts, Chinese 2, US History ( I love this teacher to much to have DS miss his class) and Orchestra. The schedule could vary slightly but not the placement!

DS12 is so excited he can't wait to start the Geometry class! He didn't want to skip 8th grade but wants so badly to feel more challenged. He actually wrote an essay that made me cry about wanting to be challenged. He wrote about his ability to feel successful is hampered by the lack of effort he has to put into his work to achieve and the undeserving feelings it leaves him with. It tore my heart out to read it. This seems like an excellent solution for him. He still gets to do the 8th grade class trip, and 8th grade extra curricular activities. He is a little peeved because we told him he could not have the results from WISC until he was an adult. I told him I'd revisit the issue at 25 years old. It is what you do in life that counts not a number. He amazingly only bugged me for a day. Ask what if he guessed it within 10 points? Will you tell then? Fat Chance, Kiddo!

A HUGE benefit from the testing! I wish I had done it sooner and I will with DD5. I am in my Happy Place at least momentarily until the control chaos returns.

thanks so much for your description of what you've been through. I am quite confident that this will help many of us, including lurkers who I now challenge to step forward and say so.

I's love to read your son's essay someday. Give it a few years, and see if he wants to post it anonymously here or, better yet, submit it to Hoagie's Gifted

www.hoagiesgifted.org/education_quotes.htm

Smiles and Thanks,
Grinity