In two different situations...

DD8 tested gifted but we are still having lots of problems with her refusing to do regular classwork even. Her output doesn't match with grades or standarized testing. The counselor at school told me what to say to ask for her to be tested for learning disabilities but I also want her proficiencies (I think) assesed. If I have the paper that says she is capable of 4th grade math and/or say, 7th grade reading, I think the school would be more accomodating...

DD4.5 is ready for our full day kinder. Most people think she's already in. After seeing how DD#1 is sufferring, I feel more than ever that early entrance to kinder will be helpful to the younger. The principal is not against this, the K teacher thinks the kid is ready, but again, the paper trail is everything.

I need names of tests that are appropriate for each of these situations, so I can specifially say to the counselor, "I need this or that test". For DD8, proficiency assessment...for DD4.5, kinder readiness I guess?

Where do you get the tests? The regular PEDs doesn't give them. Can you get them from the school? Do they have to be requested by the school or can I go somewhere and say that I need this or that?

And once you have the results, how do you convince the school to base decisions for your child on those tests...which shouldn't be so hard since they are CLEARLY test happy and that is the language they speak these days.

tia!

Unfortunately, there is no short answer. Each school system has different tests/requirements for services and what qualifies you in one district may or may not qualify you in another. Assuming your child is not in a private/charter school situation, you should be able to get the policy for early entrance from the County/District Office.

For your older child, if you are in the US, there is likely a written policy for AIG/GATE qualifications. I would begin by asking for the tests that are given for qualification. Also, this policy should let you know whether or not outside testing will be accepted and, if allowed, will give some indication of which tests your district will take.

Others can give more specific info about the tests themselves, especially those used to assess learning issues. Best of luck!

Most schools will do a multi-factored evaluation that includes strengths and weaknesses (generally including IQ and achievement testing).

However, were this my kid, I'd also go to a private neuropsychologist and look for subtle learning disabilities. The chances of the school testing getting to the bottom of the problem are low: schools don't test in the same rigorous way as a private tester does.


Your district (somewhere) has a standard for early entrance K or for grade-skipping. Find out what the standard is and what evidence they would require. Then, it depends: will they do the testing, or do you have to seek private testing? You should ask them directly.

DeeDee

thank you

For DD4.5, the principal makes it sound like it's pretty much up to her. Today I will schedule an appt with her and ask specifically what she wants to see. She put me off over the summer by saying she wanted to check with her colleagues, but that our District (am I allowed where?) does not have a policy AGAINST early entrance, nor did they have one specifically supporting it, but I guess I should call the district myself then?

For DD8-they did a test called the Raven. I would have to dig it out and look at it, but I'm pretty sure all we got was a number...it wasn't like some of the other tests I'm seeing with multiple areas. What I'm thinking is that I need one of these tests to show that she CAN (and should maybe) do higher level work in some areas and would benefit from enrichment in others. I'm still hesitant to accept that her being "bored" is what is causing these problems. I did request, in writing yesterday, for her to be tested for learning disabilities, but that is at the school.
We went to the regular pediatrician and left with a big packet for us and one for the teacher, then we follow up with the ped again in 2 weeks (and start the same process for DD4.5 and kinder) so should I say to her "I want my child tested more thoroughly" and say specific tests?

Or do you look in the phone book and just go get these tests?

Now the multiple appointments my brother went to around the same age are making sense...ugh!

http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/testing.htm

This link explains testing very well. Good luck!

Wrightslaw has lots of great information that will be helpful as you navigate the disabilities assessment process with the school.

thank you!!!

In general, I do not advise looking for an evaluator in the phone book. Word of mouth is how I get virtually all of my business and how most of my colleagues who are specialists also do. Talk to people you know who are "tough customers" and find out who they have had good working relationships with.

This is a field where there is a very broad range in terms of practitioner skill, and if you are talking about a child who is potentially twice-exceptional, you really need someone with experience in that field. Most psychologists are not trained in gifted issues at all, and most neuropsychs are trained around traumatic brain injury, stroke, dementia, outre genetic syndromes, etc, but again, not around learning disabilities in smart kids. Kids are often coming to me after someone else has, um, not done a very good job. Sigh.

Only if you use this phone book:

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?ie=U...5059822090.000461ba927f03f403bed&z=4

Well, that's a cool one, lol!

honestly, I don't know if she has a disability...but at least that test might tell us what is not wrong? It would explain certain things...or she could just be extra quirky

Exactly. You don't know whether she has a disability, and no one could really tell you conclusively without further testing. The point of getting an evaluation from someone who is familiar with highly gifted children and with children who are highly gifted with disabilities is that that kind of evaluator is much more likely to understand whether what they are seeing in the testing and in the child's history is typical for gifted children or whether it is an indication of a problem than someone who doesn't have much experience with either group.

It is also just dawning on me how, even though I think the standards are absysmaly low, my kid scores at the top of the charts (for the state test, 100% across the board except for probabilities and that is more likely due to a new math cirr. last year) but her classwork and behavior don't match. There is a disconnect between testing and production and that huge gap says alot in itself. If the gap was the other way, like she tested low but performed high, the school would be falling all over themselves to help me. It's also obvious that I am going to have to be "that parent" this year...oh well

Yup! Get testing done by someone who 'really' knows how disabilities present in gifted girls and set your mind at ease.

It still may not give you a complete picture, but it has a very high likelyhood of getting you moving in the right direction. These kids are tough!

Grinity

omg...so not on the testing part yet, but we also got this big packet from the ped...one for me and one for the teacher (we actually gave one to last year's teacher as well). Also, it turns out this year's teacher does know her a little from reading buddies last year...but anyway, looking over the packet the teacher filled out and I'm like "WHO is this kid?!?!?" Some things I see, but mostly, it's like she is talking about some totally different kid.
I am also slightly pissed to see a counseling report when she was in kinder...I was never actually shown the report, though did discuss the incident. It is SO ONE SIDED! Another kid told his mom what PA said and I think it was totally blown out of proportion.
GRRRRR!

Frustrating! Do I hear the wagons circling?
But if she is acting like the description says, then -wow- she must be suffering, yes?

You have to remember that what's 'normal' in my family, and maybe yours, and what's normal in the teacher's range of experience are quite different.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

update...grrrrr!

So the school psych called and we had a chat. I am aggrivated to learn that they will not do LD testing at this time...they say the protocol is to do a "behavior plan" first. WTH? So, if it turns out it IS a disability or something else, like ADD or ODD, you are going to make HER responsible for her behavior, when it might be something she needs HELP with? It seems to me they should rule out LD or other things first. I also want to know why, if my kid is such a problem, has this avenue not been explored before?

Monday will obviously be dedicated to at least finding a child psychologist...

Weeellll... I get your frustration, but... even if she does have a disability, she's still going to have to be responsible for her behaviour. A good, well-run behaviour plan ought to *be* helpful. It's not as though if she has a disability, someone's going to pull out a magic wand.

That does sound like a good idea, if you can find a good one as discussed.

maybe I didn't word that correctly...but I do agree that any kids can't just run amuck of course.

It just seems kind of counter productive to not rule out other issues that can be with testing, etc first. Plus, this behavior is not new. It actually started in kinder...why wasn't it addressed before? I feel like we have wasted all this time...

If you are in the US, the school can not refuse to do a learning disability evaluation if you request one in writing. The evaluation must be completed within a reasonable time.

Data from her response to a behavior plan can be included as part of the information the evaluation team considers, but a behavior plan is not a substitute for an evaluation. The rest of the process should be going ahead at the same time.

See this page from Wrightslaw.com for more information and resources.

TY aculady! I am actually a little surprised they are not pushing for an ADD evaluation, as that is the seemingly favorite dx of schools for kids who don't cooperate with the plan..

Oh here is the wording they used...
"A has concictently demonstrated Basic to Advanced academic proficiency within the general education classroom. Current CST (District wide test teachers use for report card) scores indicate Advanced proficiency. The District is required to utilize a Response to Intervention (RTI) approach in order to address any (eg behavioral) factors which may be interfering with her academic performance before proceeding with a Special Education assessment. The District will also offer to hold a parent conference/team meeting in order to address any concerns."

I guess my problem here is the way they make the assumption that just because she tests well, she must be just fine in there...but my concern is the disparity between the expected intellectual results (which she scores higher than) and the behavioral expectations (which she is at the lower end of). To me, this huge divide itself suggests that SOMETHING (or more accurately, the NOTHING) that has happened for 3 years is not meeting her needs.

Again, luckily I have insurance, so I guess I can pursue this along that front. But also, I think the first thing I'm asking when we have this meeting is "If, according to YOUR measure, my kid is UNLIKE 98% of the kids, WHY are you trying to treat her like she is LIKE that 98%"?

Can you say frustration?!?!?!

RTI is complicated. It's supposed to mean that kids who need help get help right away even before the cumbersome evaluation process; but some districts use it as a way to put off assessment, which is an incorrect application of the RTI concept. You should read up at Wrightslaw; I think there is a recent ruling that limits how long they can use RTI unsuccessfully before evaluating.

If they've been trying to help your child for some years without results, it's time to request an evaluation again, in writing, listing all areas of concern.

I would also seek outside evaluation at the same time; outside evaluators use different strategies and are typically more thorough than school evaluations can be.


I wouldn't use that strategy, actually. I'd focus objectively on the ways in which your DD is continuing to struggle in school. Bringing outside evaluation material to the table is one of the best ways to show them what you're seeing; but you should also be documenting every difficulty, in ink, with the date, so you have a record to refer to.

DeeDee