Hi All! I posted some time ago with questions about scores on a WJ test my daughter was given with placed her at 99.6 overall. She is 9 and going into 4th grade in public school with no gifted program. I am questioning her abilities lately. I am wondering if her "executive functioning" is advanced. Could advanced executive functioning make a child seem gifted? Her ability to focus on something she enjoys is crazy. She learned to recognize words at 18 months and was reading chapter books in kindergarten...she learned to crawl at 4 months and was potty trained at 23 months. She never needed much sleep and was able to do word problems using multiplication in kindergarten...She is fair, kind and has a crazy ability to understand others. She tells me that our neighbor, who is unkind, is only that way because her parents aren't around. She has been cooking for herself for years, (I was sick while pregnant with second child and she learned to fix herself food and log into the computer and play games on Noggin - at 2) excels at Ballet and taught herself a fair amount of gymnastics. She read Harry Potter in second grade (I made her wait 'til 3rd to read the last 2 books) and writes a lot. She draws the best in her class and picked up reading music easily from school music class. Other girls adore her, but she has no best friends. This year she received all 4 (above grade level) in reading and many 4's in Math and the rest 3's...also 4's in art and music. She frequently fails to read the instructions and gets answers wrong. She clearly comprehends what she is reading (even to her teacher oraly) but fails to present what she understands in written form, so her reading level is only 5th grade...quite under what she reads at home. I guess I'm wondering if this is just a very well rounded child with an advanced executive functioning...much unlike many of the children I read on here with very strong abilities in one area.

I am attaching a piece of writing she has been working on. She rarely finishes what she starts as she has grand ideas of what she would like to do and runs out of stamina only a short way through. BUT she started writing the 8th book to Harry Potter. I understand that this is NOT great writing BUT I can't seem to find any other children who write novels in their spare time. I am attaching it, hoping that you will be truthful with me as to the giftedness of my daughter. Obviously, her writing sample is only a small part of who she is, but it is easily pastable, so I'll paste it. Pardon her mis-use of capitalization and paragraphs. Some editing will be in order, but she typed it and this is the way she did.

Lily Potter and the Survivor�s Cave
By Vanessa M.
CHAPTER 1

The morning sunlight shone brightly down upon Lily Potter�s bed. Lily, an eleven-year-old girl with long, bright orange hair just like her mother, was sleeping deeply. Both her brothers, Albus and James, had dark black hair. Lily suddenly awoke to the sound of her mother calling, �Lily! Come down! The express leaves at exactly 10:00. We have to hurry because YOU can�t apparate! The Kings Cross station is four hours away. Hurry Albus, James�� Lily scrambled out of bed and out into the hallway. She was so exited! She was going to Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry. It�s a boarding school, so you must pack. THAT�S when Lily remembered -she forgot her luggage. THAT�S when she remembered a summoning charm her father, Harry had taught her.�Accio trunk!� she said wearily. A big wooden trunk came soaring down the staircase and landed with a thump next to her.
�Wow!� said Lily �It actually works! Next, she tried making it float with the Wingardiam Leviosa charm. All her trunk did was shift a little in place. Those were all the charms and spells her mother and father had taught her, but she knew she was to learn many more at Hogwarts, like Expelliarmes and Impedimenta. Lily hopped down the stairs all the way to the bottom. �Oh there you are,� said Mrs. Potter. �Breakfast is on the table.� Lily was starving as she sat down to eat. �Pumpkin pasties for breakfast?� asked Lily. �Well, being it�s the first day at Hogwarts, I thought a little treat would be fine,� said Mr. Potter proudly. �oh, and Albus, I know you don�t like them so here�s some every flavored beans instead.�Borty Bots Every Flavored Beans were a favorite at Hogwarts. �BLAH! EWW! YUCK! Earwax!� a painful scream came from the other end of the table. �Albus, you�re just making that up because Dumbledore the greatest headmaster at Hogwarts EVER said it to dad after he fought the Basilisk.�Lily said sounding very annoyed. �no, really! Its true! I got Earwax flavored bean! Really, you should believe me�� Lily was not amused. She grabbed one end of the table cloth and yanked it off the table, sending silverwear flying; forks, knives, spoons; plates, bowles and everything on the table: all now flying in the air. Ginny, Lily�s mother cried one word, �Impedimenta!� everything that was about to shatter to the ground was now floating dreamily through the hemisphere. With another flick of her wand, Mrs. Potter set everything back on the table. �Lily! Excuse me! We do not throw things into the air at any rate! Do you understand?� Lily was awestruck. What had she done wrong? Had she even taken a look at these, these people?
�er, I�m sorry, what?�
�REMEMBER WHAT YOU JUST DID?�
�Im sorry whatever you�re name is but I have clearly no Idea what you are talking about, or where I am� oh, do you live here? Its such a nice cozy place.�
�Harry!� exclaimed Mrs. Potter, �I think someone�s� wiped her memory!� everyone was quite silent for a moment, then Lily said, �what does that mean?� �Gamblia!� cried Mr. Potter. Lily was finally back to normal. �but� but Harry, I thought there was no counter curse for memory wiping?� �oh, I made that one up in case of an emergency.� �well great thinking done on you�re part.�
Th whole family ate in silence for the rest of the meal.

Thanks Sydness.
I enjoyed reading this very much and look forward to reading more.
(Does this mean that Harry marries Herminie? I always felt a bit uncomfortable about the Hermine and Ron thing)

Anyway - think you DD would enjoy this?
http://www.nanowrimo.org/eng/ywp

It's hard being the only child around with a particular interest...It's possible that your local library would be willing for you to organize a NaNoWrMo event to raise awareness or even sponsor a writers group for young people.

If you can get the school to allow her to take an online class during school hours, you might check out
http://www.onlineg3.com/

Which is more about becoming an excellent reader than writing, but at least with peers.

Another possibility is to check out the local college/university/community college and see if there is a professor who would act as a mentor.

As far as the question of 'is she gifted' - I think you'd need an IQ test to know.
Would the school provide one?
Another possibility is to do the talent search testing -
read:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_for_Talented_Youth#Talent_search

Don't know if any of these sites are nearby, but she could attend next summer:

When you say "I am questioning her abilities lately" I can't tell if you are questioning that she is much stronger than expected or much weaker. What is your main worry?

Best wishes,
Grinity

nope...Ginny is the mom here. Harry married Ginny.

Hmmm. We are 1.5 hour away from the one in Mass. I will have to look into that!

We can't pay for an IQ. School seems like they won't either, although I haven't pushed as hard as I could. But why would they test if they have no program and have a NO "skipping" policy!? Our school system tests for giftedness in 4th grade with some sort of group test. Then your name gets on a list. And that is that.
In 6th grade you are placed in either regular (Everyday Math) or accelerated Math or pre-algebra. I assume she will test into the pre-algebra trac in 6th. (But by then, she may have just give up.)

I guess I'm questioning if her abilities are a high I as thought they were. She was VERY advanced as a baby and todler. VERY! People called her a liar when they asked her how old she was and what grade she was in. Her answer was two! (She was drawing really well before she turned 2, speeking, writing, recognizing words and all letters and knew all letter sounds. She was a computer whiz (exclaiming once, at 2, that the video wouldn't play because she was using the wrong BROWSER! I never did math at home with her, but by 5, it was obvious she could manipulate money way better than her class-mates.)

I'm questioning her abilities now. She seems VERY good, probabally 1 or 2 or 3 years ahead in EVERYTHING - even social interactions, dress, and self-help.

I guess I'm wondering...she seems to have very good executive funtion! Being potty trained by 23 months and NEVER having one accident. Sleeping throught the night at 3 weeks and not needing naps. Finding her way/directions...she always found/finds my car. Crazy memory (annoyingly crazy). Always remembers a face. Understands the social scene after only a few minutes.

Maybe this good executive function makes her a few years advanced in all things, but not really far advanced in any one thing. She is a jack of all trades! Master of - - well -- maybe Ballet...(on her way)...
Now, in third grade, she is getting answers wrong. I can't tell if it is because she is crazy bored, or if she really does need the practice. She is not reading directions. She is adding instead of subtracting. She is not answering in complete sentences. She seems like she doesn't take very long on any problem and just writes the easy thing...right or wrong. Her penmanship has become a problem. (used to be beautiful) She frequently sovles a problem and coppies the answer to her page wrong because she can't read her answer. OR worse she does the problem in her head and makes an error.

She thinks everything is easy, and tells me it is too easy, yet gets answers wrong!

If she is underachieving, I fear it may be too late for her to recover.

If she really needs the extra practice, how can I knock her down a notch without hurting her self-esteem so she will take her time and open her mind and allow others to teach her.

I guess the problem I see, is that she won't learn...she thinks she knows everything already! It doesn't help that her friends think that she knows everything too!

I guess I'm just venting, but any insight would be helpful! Again, she has not been identified as gifted, but her 1&2 grade (Montessori) teacher told us she was very gifted and so did her public (old) second grade teacher. He said she was the "smartest" kid he ever taught!

Comments like these, may be why she is here, thinking that she knows everything.

For sure, it's never too late. It will most likely be a painful road back, but it surely isn't too late. It may require more than you can get the resources to provide. It may not be the best use of family resources at this time - but it is possible.

(Golly - I am rusty on my HP-ology! I forgot about Ginny ((red face)))

Smiles,
Grinity

How do you fix an under achiever? Push 'em? Make big red x's on problems? She always make excuses, like, "I knew that, I just wrote it wrong!" Will this harm her if she really isn't capable!? I guess I really do need that test...lol..we will wait and see how she does on that group test in a few months. The start of a new school year always brings new hope for me! Having new teachers who might offer her some insentive!
Thanx for your reply!

Ok - I do agree that strong EF function allows a bright child to look more 'impressive' and could mislead folks - but then, if that were the case here - why would a child who is 1-3 years ahead in the knowledge making the kind of errors your dd is making? If a child is bright and strong in EF, they wouldn't be making the kind of errors you are describing, yes?

Here are some possible 'next steps' -
1)check all the local universities and see if they are doing IQ tests are part of any studys (lots of studies need control groups)that wouldn't cost you anything.
2) Go through JHU's CTY website and sign up for the SCAT test - it's cheaper than an IQ test.
3) Have you made an appointment to talk to your child's teacher? If so, did you go up the chain to speak to the principle? If you have done both of these, it's time to request, in writing, an IQ test. Say that you are concerned that a learning disability is preventing your daughter from reading the directions and remembering which is addition and which is subtraction. If not, then make an appointment with next years teacher as soon as the school will let you, tell them what you told us about the errors you are seeing:

It is possible that next year's teacher will be wonderful. It does happen once in a while.

I wouldn't asks the teacher how to 'knock her down a peg' because if the teacher isn't an absolute angel, it's way to temping to the lower parts of human nature.

Take some time to journal about your childhood, about how people acted when you thought that you knew everything, and how you were 'knocked down a peg' for better and for worse.

Remember that a school may have a 'no skips' policy and then may quietly ignore that policy when needed. The school probably also has a motto, such as 'Develop each child to their fullest' that might over-rule the 'no skip' policy.

It might be that the school would allow you to part-time homeschool certian subjects.
4) I would call the pediatrician and try to set up an appointment to have her 'checked out' because she is 'acting strangely.' There is a chance that the pediatrician will shed some light on this, or refer you somewhere that is covered by your insurance that will shed some light.

Good luck!
For the future -
1) Consider attending the 'Beyond IQ conference in the Spring of 2012' - it's aimed for HG and PG families, but there isn't any paperwork-proof required for attendence.
2) When your daughter gets to middle school, consider sending her to MIT's Splash - it's the weekend before Thanksgiving and lots of fun. Again, no paperwork needed.
3) When your DD turns 10, sign her up for the SATs. It will give her some idea of how much more there is to learn, and it's a cheap way to document how 'outside the box' she is in her learning needs.
4) If you live south of Hadley, join Connecticut's state gifted group, and bring your daughter to their Saturday enrichment program - "Minds in Motion"
5) if you live East of Hadley, check out http://www.voyagersinc.org/wiki/bin/view/Public/WebHome
for gifted-friendly events, even if you don't end up homeschooling, there will be lots of smart moms to talk to.
I don't know the resources to the West and North - but I'll bet they exist. Problem is finding them.
6) What about homeschooling??? Have you checked around all the private schools? (even the ones who say that they don't have 'merit aid' probably would make an exception for your kid if they want her badly enough) At the very least, the private schools have very interesting things to say when they check out your child and form their own opinions about what she needs - sort of like a free evaluation.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I call this the 'Goldilocks Problem' - when a child is seriously underplaced for a long long time, then everything is 'too easy' or 'too hard' - finding the just right level to learn is very difficult indeed. It takes slow careful 'supported pushes' to get a child out of this - we did it by afterschooling with Aleks.com

It's great having the computer be the 'bad guy' and one can just be an ally for the child.

As for the comments - wrap your head around this possibility - the comments might only have served to validate what she is surely able to see for herself. Scary, huh?

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I will do all of those. We are near Yale. Where would I begin? Which department would I call? Child Psych?

I am not gifted. (although I was always called gifted in art and creative writing..by teachers)...so I don't know if I have any "knocking me down a notch stories" but I guess that does sound like a bad idea...lol.

My husband was tested when he was young...the SB and tested out...at 140...tester guessed it was around 152 or 153. So, I feel very inadequate raising this little one! (I have a 5 year old who may be going down the same road, but is less "even" with fine motor skill lagging a bit)

I have requested a subject skip in math...denied.
I have requested from many people (including school psych) testing...was told they don't do achievement testing for anyone.

I have not writen a request for an IQ test. I will word it exactly how you said. Never thought of questioning a LD! Brilliant! Although, they might think I'm crazy because I already requested the grade skip..and her grades are high!

I actually DO think my little one has a LD of some sort and talked to the Spec Ed teacher about it and was told "A child reading at DD5's level, doesn't have a LD)! So, I never thought to go there with DD9!

Thanx for the wonderful help. If you wouldn't mind telling me which department to start with at Yale.!?

Sydness,

Have your DD take SCAT test (John Hopkins CTY talent search). http://cty.jhu.edu/

It costs $55 and you can do it locally in one of the test center. The test is 2 grades above level. When she qualifies, you may apply for financial aid and do online or camp. Yale has SIG (summer institute of gifted students) as well during summer time.

If your school/ district policy does not do grade skipping, any test result won't help. At least you can supplement her with outside resources. There are other resources in this forum you may find it useful. Yes, she may end up doing extra work compared with other kids but that will keep her on her toes until she gets to middle school when she will have pre-AP classes, etc...

Here's the link to Research at Yale -
http://trials.yale.edu/clinicalTrials/list.asp?health=Y&newSearch=Y

I didn't see anything that looked likely, but you can always try calling asking. Also - make a date with yourself to check in 3 months.

It might be worth a call to Yale Child Study Center

230 South Frontage Rd.
New Haven, CT 06520
Tel: 203.785.2540
to see if there are any discounted IQ tests being given by trainees.

Worth a vist to this school -
Phoenix Academy
www.phoenixacademy.org/

and this one -
Pierrepont School - Home Page
www.pierrepontschool.org/

I know some families who love this one -
http://www.footeschool.org/
(they have a summer program as well - August 15-19 and 22-26)

If you haven't discoverd this weekend activity/summer program place - try some summer classes here:
http://www.eliwhitney.org/new/workshop/summer-2011

The Eli Whitney Museum and Workshop | Make something of yourself.
www.eliwhitney.org/

These people are amazing and attract a very gifted-friendly crowd - one summer my son got inspired to learn to solve the Rubix cube from one of the other campers. Be ready to try and find some 'like minded' friends for your daughter there, and ask the other moms lots of questions about which school is working for them.

Here's the link for the State association - http://www.ctgifted.org/

I'll post more as I think of it -
Love and More Love,
Grinity

You figure out what her 'readiness to learn' level is and give her work in that zone. Expect excuses, tantrums, whatever - your job is to rekindle that desire for learning - it will be messy. Pretty much be prepared to smile and ignore all the rotten verbiage that gets dredged up when a child starts to become excited again. In your location you can bring her to the Eli Whitney Center for afterschool programs on her level that are fun. You can order used middle school or high school level textbook in her favorite topic area for cheap and make hunting for inacuracies part of the fun. You can do online classes like G3 or A3. It takes time and work, and cotton for the ears - but it can be done!

What you can't do is 'parent' her into working hard on academic material that is so far below her 'readiness to learn level' that it actually shames her.
http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/analogies.htm
look at the Elephant analogy.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I love that--although I'm sure DS wouldn't appreciate being called Goldilocks


That's just plain ridiculous. Of course a child can read early and still have a learning disability. The sticking point in terms of services is that criteria varies from state to state. In my area, for instance, a child could be found to have a disability but not in need of special education because they are able to access the regular education curriculum.


Does your DD get more accurate/careful as the difficulty of a task increases? When my DD is doing work that she doesn't have to use any concentration to complete, she underperforms and makes tons of careless mistakes. She is significantly more successful when the work is difficult for her. HOWEVER, she has to be part of a group in which others are also doing this type of work (even if the group is via an internet based class)in order to buy into it. She was always very uncomfortable with doing work that was different than what everyone else was doing. Is there anyone else in her class/grade (since the school nixed accelerating her to the next grade) that could be involved in an appropriate instructional group? Was the nix on acceleration a philisophical, we-don't-do-that-here decision, or was it due to the errors in her work?

Taminy! YES! I think it is the weirdest thing! DD9 was given challenge homework in Math...She told me about it and she acted like she won a prize claiming that "They called it harder work, Mommy, but really it's easier!" I looked at it...It was much harder. She did it all correctly and quickly.

Another weird thing she does - In her summer workbook (Singapore Math 4B)

There was a question: circle the higher fraction...
Number 1. a. 1/4, 3/5 b. 2/6, 7/8

Number 2. a 3/6, 6/9 b. 5/20, 6/10

I don't remember the actual fractions, but you get the idea.
So, she was trying to combine each set of fractions to see which set was higher, a. or b.

Do other children do this? She makes very simple problems into very hard problems...and gets them wrong.! I was thinking it's because she attended Montessori through second and never learned how to follow directions in a workbook. But she does it with other things too!

At dinner, a comic magician who had told us some funny jokes, asked her what color an orange was. She couldn't answer. It was so ackward. My smart, 9-year-old daughter could NOT tell the man what color and orange was. So, DD5 answered. She was a little weirded out that her big sis "didn't know!"

I also overheard my daughter talking to her friend. Her friend had seen Harry Potter 8, something which my DD9 is going to do soon. The friend was telling DD9 what happens in the end (spoiler) and my daughter is listening and nodding her head. My daughter is a Harry Potter Fanatic! She knows EVERYTHING about Harry Potter. She read ALL the books and say the first 6 movies. She is writing Harry Potter Book 8 for goodness sake!

But she let the girl tell her all the details in the last movie without ever saying that she already knew them. Is that polite? Should I be proud that she is letting the girl next door feel proud of herself for knowing "more" about a subject and/or bragging about it?

Because I am proud of her for considering other people's feelings.

OR should I be concerned that she is hiding...and lonely. As I said before, the other girls adore her...but she adores nobody (except her 13 year old cousin, who, well, has her own life).

Grinity said this...(how do you do that quote thing?)
What you can't do is 'parent' her into working hard on academic material that is so far below her 'readiness to learn level' that it actually shames her.

This may be the advice that saves us! My husband seems to think we can just expect more out of her and she will make less mistakes. Hmmm..It seems like an easy solution, but I am the one with her all day. I am the one noticing the patterns in her work and I am convinced at this point that no amount of "pushing" or rewards with keep her from making careless mistakes.

It seems like she gets and 85% on her tests I give her at home no matter how hard. When I show her that she got one wrong...she quickly corrects it.

If I take a chunk out of this rectangle, what is the perimeter of what's left...She did all the math to determine how long each side was, but when she added them up (in her head) she forgot a side.

It blew me away! When she saw it was wrong, she said..."OH! I forgot to add the 12." She knew right away...And then smiled...as if to say "See, I didn't REALLY get it wrong!"

UGGGGGHHH....I'll look into that testing...:)...

I'm so torn, because I think I am still hoping that I can ignore this and make her be a "normal" child.

ps. The decision to not skip 4th grade math was because skipping anything isn't allowed...ever. They didn't care what her tests looked like...or her work...When I asked if her CMT scores would matter when they came in, the VP said "I'm sure she got the whole thing right. But our teachers are qualified to alter the curriculum in the classroom she is supposed to be in."

You can use the buttons, or use the quote button and then make note of how it appears in the box (vs. when it is submitted) on either side of what you've quoted.


I used to just think that DD12 just wasn't concentrating or "trying" when she would make careless errors, but in some of our conversations this year I realized that she really didn't understand work that was below her level. It wasn't so much that she was offended at being given easy work (although that happened at times too), it's just that she couldn't imagine what the teacher could possibly be looking for because the answer seemed so obvious that it felt like it must be a trick (perhaps why your DD didn't answer when asked what color an orange is), OR, she knew she was supposed to elaborate on the answer, but she couldn't deconstruct and explain a response that was completely fused into a simple phrase in her mind. Other posters have written of similar issues to the one you described with the fractions--deciding what doesn't belong or interpreting a direction (inferring what is not explicitly stated or asked for) is a big problem for students who see multiple possibilities and are wired to reject the one that seems too obvious to be the actual intended answer. I always did worse in my hs and college classes when given a multiple choice test, than I did in classes that used short answer or essay formats. I can recall arguing over lost points on almost every mc test because my interpretation of what was being asked made sense with the wording, but didn't match the teacher intent. I was overjoyed to get past my prerequisite classes and leave those tests behind!

This year DD confessed to me that she was starting to write answers on her test to make the test itself more interesting to her. She said it as if she was doing something subversive and stated that her teachers would probably get mad. Of course, her teachers didn't get mad and she started getting higher grades because she was finally starting to show some thought. If your daughter is a "pleaser" or afraid of getting in trouble or disappointing the teacher, it's possible that she isn't showing what she is holding back because she is trying to do what she thinks is expected rather than employing her creativity.

As far as the math, I have a very similar DD, especially if asked to "show her work" on problems that aren't at all challenging to her. With my own students, I hand math tests back with circles around problems with errors. If a student can correct their own errors I do not make them continue to work on the same material, but we do have a conversation about standardized tests, which can only judge on the original work. We might even talk about the difference between what their grade would be in other situations compared to the grade they are going to recieve with their corrections. My hope is that it will help them become increasinly aware of the types of errors they make so that they can start to adjust their approach to test taking.

It can be frustrating to see errors happen, but it helps to be aware that the reason that it is frustrating has to do with other peoples' interpretations based on myths that gifted children would get 100% on everything. In other words, it is less about your daughter than it is about other people. You'll still want to coach her.


That's frustrating! Perhaps you might approach it by asking for a clarification meeting and bringing along copies of your district's standards. You could say something like, "Thanks for meeting with me. I really appreciate your willingness to do the extra work to provide advanced instruction in the classroom, but this is a little bit new for me and I'm not sure I have a clear sense of what you mean. Can you help me understand what DDs math will look like in the classroom? Which grade level standards has she already met? [you could pull out the standards at that point and ask them to highlight standards they think she's met]. What will she work on when other students are learning those standards for the first time and who will instruct her on the skills that are new to her? What materials do you use for that? I'm trying to picture this in a way that doesn't leave her just trying to learn on her own, especially since I know she needs guidance on interpreting the questions/directions even when she understands the actual math"

If they are unable to highlight the standards, or what they have highlighted doesn't match what you see, request that they test her to ceiling and schedule a follow up meeting with you to look at what they find. You might even have your daughter join you at the end to go over her test so that she can make corrections on any concepts she actually does know.

I can't promise that school will be receptive, but if it's of big concern it might be worth a try.

Hey - Sydness, check out
http://giftedissues.davidsongifted.org/BB/ubbthreads.php/topics/107980.html#Post107980

Also - my son was always sure that the questions were too easy (orange) and 'making mistakes' by souping things up to be more what he would expect any normal person to be asking any normal child (the fraction example)

Ideally you'll be able to hire a tester who is willing to come to school meetings, do an 'in class' observation, and make recommendations that they will listen to.

The argument stopper to 'Our teachers are fully trained to differentiate' is - ok, the teachers are great, but my child learns best with academic peers who share her readiness to learn level. It's too lonely for such a social child to be by herself so much of the time.

And it's very admirable that your dd has social skills strong enough to allow her to support her friend over HP8, and YES this is a great example of the personal cost to HER from being in a poor fit academic environment. She thinks you want her to be just like the girls in her classroom - otherwise you else would you and the school adult have put her there???? She expects you and the other adults to be wise enough to know where to put a school child. She knows she is different, and since she is placed where she is placed she is getting the message every day that she had better hide it and make the best of it because that is what you and DH and the other adults want (on purpose!)

Don't try and verbally explain or defend yourself - change the parameters of her life. Even if it's only on the weekends and summers if that is the best you can do, she needs regular contact with peerish children and adults who expect her to be who she is.

((You may print this out and show DH and the school adults.))

Love and More Love,
Grinity

I signed up for the HP Yahoo group. Sounds like fun...I'll have to watch the movies to catch up...

I'm just not convinced that she is gifted...needing more maybe...but I don't know about gifted...although I was sure when she was a baby...I guess once I know for sure I will be able to fight harder.

How unusual would she have to be before you 'felt' like she was gifted?

Top 10%? Top 5%? Top 3%? Top 0.1%?
My DH used to think that as long as there was someone that he knew at one moment of his life that was 'smarter' than himself, that he couldn't possibly be gifted. Everyone has their own definition of giftedness, so it makes sense that whatever definition you choose it will be wrong to most other people.

Those are all real cut offs used by real programs somewhere or other. Try reading Ruf's 5 levels of giftedness while waiting for that test date...it might help.

I myself define gifted as 'having special educational needs that are different enough from local peers that there is a low likelihood of having those needs met in a regualar classroom without significant modification.' So yeah - if she is not having her needs met at school, than for my purposes, she is gifted, by definition.

Love and More Love,
Grinity

Good reply Grin!

I was just about to say the same thing about Ruf's levels. Sydness, keep in mind that there is a range of giftedness...
and there is asynchrony, and there is 2E, etc.

Also, do a search on this board for "gifted denial"

And finally, "if it walks like a duck..."

- EW

p.s. if you are still not convinced, re-read Grinity's definition.

maybe she is a duck. lol

At least 'behaving consistient with duck-like expectations at this moment in time.' ((wink))

I applied to Johns Hopkins for her to take the SCAT. I guess I just wait now. What IS this SCAT test. Seems like its just above grade level testing...Why isn't the WJ good enough? How is she going to do well on an above grade test when she has been given very little above grade material to work on.?

If she does well, then what? I don't even know where to begin on getting a bigger pond for this duck.

She has organized an art show for the neighborhood. I told her that she might be able to get the Art Emporium to provide the prizes. She did. So, I feel good about supporting her in this, but I don't know how long I can keep it up!

Yesterday she was making Iced Tea and sitting in the yard offering it to people and dying her hair with paroxide.(which reminds me, she wanted me to look up why it make your hair orange.) The few days before were partly filled with her designing an iPhone application social networking via...umm maybe I shouldn't say ...just in case she has something! lol...anyway she spent hours in photoshop designing what the screens should look like for her app. Today she had her little sis pose for like 45 minutes while she drew her and learned a card trick, she made lunch, practiced piano...(which is just playing tunes cause we can't afford lessons..) did her 4th grade workbook and then I suggested she do the first problem on every page in her 5th grade workbook...she liked that. (She complains that she doesn't like to do the same problem 100 times..so I thought I'd look like I'm listening and working with her).
She already knew how to do 2 digits on the bottom multiplication...when she saw 3 digits, she just did it...I was happy to see that she was transferring her knowlege..

She will be in Ballet Intensives all next week! That will be nice for both (all) of us!

So, thanks for the advice/info/observations...

I just hope that I can believe the results of this "test." I have a hard time believing that she could score 99.9 or whatever it was on the WJ in spelling/grammar...or whatever...when they didn't test ALL the words..I feel like she just happened to know those words.

I am about to send you a PM (flashing envelope)

Sydness,
I just wanted to chime in (maybe a little late) and agree, agree, agree. Your DD's milestones are eerily similar to those of my DS, who is in other ways a more obviously presenting PGlet. Don't let the well-roundedness throw you off. Although it's pretty common for there to be an area of strength, there are several kids who are above grade-level across the board. It's not a way to exclude giftedness. If anything (and please do read Dr. Ruf's book because she talks about this) it's a sign of profound giftedness.
Coming here and reading more about gifted issues will help you figure out how you can best help your daughter. But, regardless of whether or not she is gifted, or at what level, it sounds like you need to figure out something to improve her school situation. The art show and working on the app sound like great projects and I think you instinctively know what to do to help her. Now, the school admins, that's where you have to plan and strategize.
Oh, and the stumbling on "easy" problems is pretty classic too. My husband said that he was convinced he was stupid because he thought there must be more to the questions because they seemed so easy and yet everyone else thought they were hard. He figured he must be missing something. And my DS often tries to change worksheets or make them more interesting. Last year he brought home a math sheet with the answers written out (nineteen instead of 19).
Good luck and let us know what you find out!

Hi! I just wanted to chime in that if your daughter is interested in learning piano but you don't want to do lessons, you could always start her on a series of instructional books that she could work through at her own pace. I taught myself to play starting at about age 8 and I am so glad that I did, because it's still something I love to do every day! I probably did the first 4-5 levels of books and then moved on to just purchasing any music that wasn't too hard.

Kerripat - we are doing that with my daughter and she is loving it. I think it is better than lessons for her because she is in control.

Sydness - you will be surprised at how much above grade level material a gifted child can absorb. I sometimes have no idea where my kids get some of the stuff they have in their heads. That is part of the point. Smart kids can learn what they are taught. Gifted kids can often learn without being taught.

Just a warning though - my DD was an underachiever and she didn't blossom until she decided that she was ready. We just found ways to reward achievement (paying for A's to get her to do the boring work) and found ways for her to really achieve (the elementary school science olympiad in our case). So, the first two times that we coughed up and paid for testing, it was a total waste of money.

Just saying - don't be discouraged if an underachiever underachieves when you are paying for it. Keep giving your child opportunities to achieve and motivation for achieving. She'll bloom when she is ready.

Mary