Hi all --

I am just curious and would like some feedback from those who have lots of experience with IQ testing. DS6 took the SB V when he was 5y3m. He scored extremely well across the board, with nonverbal IQ 148, verbal IQ 151, FSIQ 152, with his only weak area in knowledge (primarily nonverbal knowledge).

This is NOT meant to be a competitive "why is your child smarter than mine post", so PLEASE do not read it that way. However, while my son seems quite bright (plenty bright for me!), he really does not seem to come close to the level of many/most of the kids on here who are DYS level (to which he was just accepted). The more people who post, and the more I read, the more I think this. Is there a chance that the provider (who didn't seem to have a great deal of experience with extremely gifted kids) did the test wrong, and that his scores were overstated? Is it more likely that he is just a "later bloomer" than the other kids, or that his areas of weakness (fine motor skills, coordination, eyesight) are impacting his ability to achieve in certain ways? I want to continue to challenge him, but I don't want to put expectations on him that are unrealistic.

Any thoughts? And again, this is NOT supposed to be a question of competition for achievement, I am just trying to understand him better, and see if others have a similar experience when they received very high scores.

Thanks.

Susan

I think you may be suffering from a serious case of what I've seen termed "impostor syndrome"*, but odds are that your son really is that smart of a cookie. I think a poor test result doesn't prove a kid is not smart, but a great test result isn't the result of chance.

I do think the tester does make a lot of difference. I think this might be partly because they are allowed some leeway, depending on the test and subtest, on how they score the verbal items especially (0, 1 or 2 points, that sort of thing). But I think that it's far more likely that a particular tester would give higher results than another one due to establishing good rapport with a particular kid. That's how it was with us.

I don't attach a lot of significance to milestones, and never have. No matter what, your son must be way ahead of most age peers in ways tested on the IQ test, even if he wasn't as far ahead on achievement tasks (as tested).

I would try not to sweat it, and just be sensitive to what your son seems to be ready for and interested in. He's bound to be unique anyway.

* ETA: BTDT

We had dd10 tested on the WISC when she was 7. Her GAI came out at 148 and she, honestly, doesn't seem like that high of a kid. She is also 2e, though. A second round on the WISC a year later had a nearly 20 pt drop in the GAI.

I'm not sure either score is accurate. I suspect that she is higher than the second testing and probably lower than the first. She was coming off a really, really bad school year before the 2nd testing where the teacher had stomped her self confidence and her scoring pattern was very erratic with a number of misses on easy questions and correct answers on harder questions (and scores within subtests that ranged from the 25th percentile to the 99.9th).

If your ds was accepted to DYS, I'd expect that you had both achievement and ability scores, though. My dd, while achievement scores on things like the WIAT are much higher than expected if the second IQ scores were accurate, aren't DYS level. Your kiddo may be, like Dottie said, a manageable level of PG or his personality may lend itself toward not appearing radically different than other kids.

I suspect, in my dd's instance, that the 2e issues play into her not appearing as way out there as the IQ #s would make me expect.

Issues with fine motor, eyesight, and coordination can absolutely impact everyday ability to demonstrate intellect. They can make it hard to read, hard to write, hard to complete puzzles, hard to estimate or evaluate size, number, distance, etc., which can impact math achievement and number sense - the impacts are wide ranging. Addressing these issues with appropriate therapies and getting appropriate accommodations in the meantime can make a huge difference in confidence, self-esteem, and achievement. It is very easy for a child who has difficulties in these areas to internalize a view of himself as stupid because he has difficulties with tasks that other children find simple.

2E can be like that sometimes - I like the 'somewhere between the two' ideas and would use that as my main theory, but leave open the small possibility that 148 plus 2e equals a kid like your DD.

Wink,
Grinity

I can completely sympathize with the 'imposter syndrome'. We question the test results often!! In our case, DD8.5 is 2e (ADHD and maybe dyslexia). Her GAI is estimated to be in the 148-151 range. You would NEVER think it, if you were to meet her. She is a bright and engaging child, but school is just not her thing. She likes what she likes and will learn about it a bit until she gets bored. She has no great knowledge on any one subject but knows a bit about a lot of things. We were floored when she was identified as highly gifted and, we suspect, many people who know her would think we had flaming pants-on-fire if we told them of her IQ results.

As we travel further along this road, I am coming to the realization that there is no 'normal' gifted definition. It presents differently in each child. In my child's case, it manifests in her different thought process, amazing memory and emotional sensitivity. I think my DH and, particularly, I need to let go of our preconceived ideas about gifted children and spend more time discovering all the things that do indeed make our DD the great child that she is. I believe in my heart that the world will be a better place because of her, in some manner or another. Whether she reaches the highest of heights or coasts at her own speed... I have faith that she is going to find a way to channel herself. And when she does, watch out!

The psychologist we used said that frequently, when children are tested at very young ages, it is only a few questions that make the difference between highly gifted, gifted, and average. She said she sometimes is surprised when some kids test as well as they do, and vice versa.

Wonderfully put! I'm so happy to see this thread because my DD7 recently had DYS-qualifying scores and I was quite confounded until, as you said, I realized there is no normal definition. Goodbye, stereotypes!

As best I can tell, when DD does use her extra brain horsepower it is either to better enjoy being a 7-yo girl or to win an argument (the results of which will allow her to better enjoy being a 7-yo girl). On the computer she will build a fairly elaborate amusement park in RollerCoaster Tycoon 3 not because she's interested in rollercoaster physics or managing finances of a theme park, but because she likes to pop the balloons her park's guests release into the air.

Recently she has been showing a growing interest in science and history and has asked very pointed and difficult-to-answer questions. Still, even though I bought her a very good kids' science encyclopedia, she has not yet read a page. She's just so busy doing stuff.

My son is just like yours :-) He's a DYS now but isn't like many of the kids who we see described here. I too had imposter syndrome! He had the SB-V at 5 1/2 and got quite high but not quite DYS scores, still high enough for us to be shocked. We knew he was gifted but assumed "just barely". I figured, "Well Dottie often says scores at 5 are pretty high if your child is already reading well."

He retested on the WISC a year later(at 6 1/2) and his scores went up and achievement scores were up there too. Time to deal with the reality!

Since then, we've worked hard to advocate for better school situation. My imposter syndrome is fading as I see him grade skipped and still at the top of his class and I realize that's still not enough to challenge him. But he'd be happy playing board games and playing fetch with the dog. He's a very easygoing, mellow kid who isn't begging for more challenge- only more Lego!

Dottie- I was only using you to feed my own denial! That requires some manipulation of your actual quotes LOL!

Very well put! My preconceived ideas include solving calculus (such as a whole textbook worth not just one) problems at age 3 or younger (ha!).


Almost have mine under control thanks to you Dottie! It's a very dogged affliction though!

Thanks for everybody's input. I particularly liked your comments, kathleen'smum:

He does indeed seem to be "coasting". He is not particularly interested in doing things, picking up books, reading (which is all I EVER did as a kid), or doing projects. He mostly wants to drive race cars around the house. I agree that I have a lot of preconceived notions about "gifted" that probably mostly come from the way the kids in my generation were -- all four of us had pretty similar profound interests in reading early and often, and I just don't see that in him. At the same age, my younger brother was going to be a paleontologist and knew every dinosaur and the difference between the Jurassic, paleolithic, eocene, etc. My son dabbles in reading about science but doesn't have that drive to read nonstop. He occasionally says stuff that amazes me though, so maybe he's just a lower key kind of kid than we all were.

Thanks again for the thoughtful comments.

That's an interesting finding, and I guess not surprising. Perhaps their norms for five year olds are not as reliable. I'm sure he's very very bright, I just found the discrepancy between my view of him and the way other kids on the board are described to be surprising. I agree with the other poster about the issues with vision/coordination, etc. He is in therapy, so hopefully those things will improve...

I think intensity is a huge factor, as is personality type. I am not a big fan of her levels of giftedness work, but Dr. Ruf talks about the differences between personality type on the Meyers-Briggs (spelling?) and how different factors can influence how a child presents (http://www.educationaloptions.com/r...pesandEffectiveSchoolLessonPlans2008.pdf). Some kids are just easy going - I have noticed with local gifted kids/families I have interacted with that it seems easier for people/schools/teachers to believe that "intense" kids are gifted compared to the laid back ones.

BTW, a bunch of great posts on this. In the end, each child is different and you really can only do your best to support them as they move along.

I have a question about the SBV often having super high results with the 5 yr olds. How much is that because the SBV (it seems to me) is most often used by gifted "experts". A child that seems to need testing by a gifted expert at, or before, 5 was maybe always more likely to score high?

That is an interesting question, and good point.

I read a lot of conflicting info about this test. I have read a lot that says that children usually score lower on this test, and the Ruf's levels (as debatable as they are) do have lower thresholds for the SB-V. But then I read a lot on here about the really high numbers for 5 year olds.

I'll be curious to see how my DS does if I retest him with the WISC at some point. He was 4.7 when he tested on the SB-V, I wonder if his score is part of the "5 year old inflation theory."


*****Must get back to working and not get sucked into researching iq tests, yet again. LOL*******

Ah Dottie, always the voice of reason. Must you be so rational? I certainly think my kids outcomes will not easily be predicted by their initial IQ tests.

Amber, I have also read that both the SB-V and the WISC-IV return lower results than their predecessors. It's all very confusing.

There *is* a way that your son could have received very high scores by accident. The evaluator could have used the wrong tables to produce the score. To get the scaled scores they take the raw scores and then look at a table of scaled scores depending on the kid's age.

I know this can happen because it happened to me.

I was having my 2E son evaluated for the third time and when I came to pick him up from one of the sessions, the evaluator pulled me aside.

"Your son is brilliant," she told me. She handed me his scores. His GAI was 160. He had four 19s on the VCI and PRI indices (WISC-IV). This did not correlate with my experience of him *at all*. In fact, I was expecting a GAI (on a good day) to be no more that 140 or so.

A week later, I asked for the raw scores because, as he had four 19s, I wanted to see what his GAI would be with extended scoring. The raw scores weren't on the charts; they were too low. So I determined that based on the pattern in the scores that his GAI would be about 140.

Sure enough, she was using score tables for a kid two years younger. And his GAI turned out to be 140.

So yes, usually the advice is that high scores are in line with reality, but low scores may not be. With this particular son, I've had both high and low scores that have not been real.

It can happen.

This is exactly how I see it. Well put, Dottie!

Wow, Kai! What a mistake!

Fortunately, I know that at least the interpretation of the raw scores were correct. I got the raw scores and had Aimee Yermish look at them to make sure he shouldn't have had the extended IQ performed (he didn't need it), and she confirmed his scaled numbers and resulting scores...

That would be disconcerting for sure.