my son scored high average on his wppsi iii test. He seems much brighter than that to me. The psychologist was wonderful and very familiar with gifted children. I didn't think he was going to score extremely high, but I didn't expect him to test not even in the gifted category. I have not worked with him specifically in ways to take a test. We just read a lot of books. I'm not familiar with gifted children and their needs, but he really seems eager to question his environment, when they learn anything at his little church preschool, he likes to come home and explore it and ask good questions about things. Would it be prudent for me to have him tested next year after he has learned that tests are important or more familiar with taking a tests? I have no idea about any of this, but I need some help. The basic requirment for the school we want into is just an iq score of 125. Can you build up your child's iq by working with him or is it just innate whether you work with them or not?

That's a tough question and probably subject to opinion. I'd say that there is an innate range that a child may fall within. Where he'll settle in that range probably won't be known for some time as IQ scores are somewhat unstable at his age. In general, though, I'd say that you can raise your IQ score by working on the types of skills tested on IQ tests, but that won't truly change your ability.

One question, do you have a history of giftedness in your family? If you are comparing him to others with high IQs in the family (125+) and he still seems very bright (on par or above them), you might have good reason to think that the numbers are not the best estimate of his ability.

Testing at 4 does not give the most accurate picture. It really depends on the child. Did he cooperate? Was he shy? Lots of factors could be at play. BUT as for prepping for tests one only has to look at NYC and the mess to know yes, you can prep and increase the score but in the end is it a true snap shot of your child's ability?

Welcome,

IQ tests tell us something, but they are really just a fuzzy snapshot of a particular child at a particular time. Especially before age 6 or 7, they are not highly exact instruments (I think I read somewhere that about 30% of the kids who test at 4 into the NYC gifted program would not qualify at age 6 - but I don't know if that is accurate). Your own observations, the child's achievement, persistence, focus, all sorts of things come into play eventually and likely influence whether a child is "gifted." Is your son reading yet? Have you looked at the indications of giftedness listed here: http://talentigniter.com/ruf-estimates

There is a saying "gifted is as gifted does." If you feel like what you are seeing is gifted, try to encourage it regardless of what a test score tells you.

It is hard when the test is high stakes, and a school decision rests upon it. I have to say I am really against prepping a kid for an IQ test, but I understand why people in NYC feel like they must.

If you retest your son at age 6, would you be able to apply for the special school again, and move in at that point? I am not sure about the WPPSI, but I believe on WISC a child isn't supposed to repeat the test for two years.

It is terrific that your son is so curious and interested in what he is learning - whether technically gifted or not, this trait will take him a long way, and it sounds like you are doing a great job encouraging him to explore his interests.

Good luck, Cat

Hi!

Do you have the subtest scores from the WPPSI? My son took it at 4.5 and had a great deal of difficulty with the timed sections which also required him to use a pencil. So while his overall FSIQ was still high, the tester believes it would be much higher if not for that subtest.So maybe you could address your gut by seeing where were the strengths and weaknesses.

Also, while you can't take the WPPSI again so soon due to familiarity but you could take the SB V and then offer both to the school, if private they might be willing to say, okay he had a bad day with the other test scores being higher.

I absolutely understand the pressures associated with the testing little kids to get them into appropriate schools - its so frustrating because at this age you can't approach it they way you could even an 8 year old in terms of doing your best, etc.

DeHe

Cat
Grr, the conversations about the NYC testing drive me insane. The NYC program uses the OLSAT/Bracken combo platter - so 75% sort of IQ although not like WISC or SBV and 25% is the bracken school readiness testing. But the real issue is the score to qualify - 90% gets you into a gifted program in your district, which are single classes or pullouts. So that 90% captures a wide range of kids that probably aren't over 125 or 130. But 97% does likely capture 125 and above and that is what gets you into the citywide programs. And then if you throw in Hunter where this year kids needed a 149 sum of scaled scores on selected subtests, there is lots of talk. I don't think the the kids that get into Hunter and Citywide would not fall into the same scored range, assuming the "had a good day" factor was kept the same. I think its more that the kids who don't make the cutoff at 4.5 could do so at 8 but don't get the opportunity.

Personally, I think the testing is legitimate as a way of distinguishing between readiness to do more advanced work or more at a quicker pace. However, the testing clearly doesn't find all who can. But the flaming out of these students later seems to me about all the other things that factor into doing well in school rather than raw aptitude or ability.

To me the worst part is that for both Hunter and the Citywides, there are more qualified kids than slots - and the choice is not made by highest score - but by playdate in the case of Hunter (who do we want) and lottery for NYC (so random).

Okay, getting off the soapbox now . . .

DeHe

A lot of kids I have seen get into the gifted public clearly are not gifted. Technically the OLSAT is not an IQ test right?

DeHe,

No worries Dehe, that is why I said I wasn't sure it was accurate. I also didn't realize there were 3 "levels" of schools.

What is sad, is that there are so many kids who qualify, who can't attend. And when you look at the other options, the stakes are so high.

Cat

I'm not really sure about my family background. I was tested when I was in elementary school for an accellerated program, but it was at a different location and my parents didn't want to drive me there. I was bored in school and never really lived up to my potential, because I never really tried. And when it came time that you would have to try, I was too academically lazy. I just hope he will be able to thrive where he is, because he doesn't qualify for the school for gifted children. Anyone have any good book suggestions on how to supplement regular kindergarden?

Hi Cat
I'm sorry, I hope I didn't sound too snarky. I've been arguing a lot lately about these tests, which is so funny in that I end up defending them, when it's not like it's really working for my kid!!! On parent boards in NYC and even IRL there is a lot of you parents who think your kids are special don't know what they are talking about, and the "they wouldn't get in later" argument is what's always cited. Or the reading early doesn't mean anything cause they all catch up is another favorite. But no one has any real evidence of kids being asked to leave or being truly unable to handle it. Sigh. I think it seems to parents that gifted education is providing specials, that they get better toys, and better teachers, rather than it being about the environment and not having to be teachers helper. And there is a real negativity about PG, if you don't present as stereotype genius you don't need anything different.

Hmm, getting on soapbox again, very easy to just keep talking about this because this place feels like the only place where it's safe to do so. So many parent friends who look at the decisions we made recently like we are insane because the don't know what he can do and I certainly can't say, our local school is good enough for your kid but I don't think our local school is appropriate for DS!!! More sighing!

Oh and the worse part of the process, 4 months of waiting to get the scores!

DeHe

Correct, according to hoagies:


Otis Lennon School Abilities Test (OLSAT-8), grades K-12, ceiling = 150
Group ability test, assesses verbal and nonverbal reasoning abilities that are related to success in school. Published by Harcourt Educational Measurement�
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Braedan's mom, um. A lot of kids are into lego's now and that builds up to other stuff like robotics. There's even clubs and competitions. I might start a chapter for my kid when he starts school. www.starfall.com has up to second grade reading prep. It's popular and free. Fatbrain toys online has a nice selection of thought-provoking toys. I think family game night board games by hasbro are enriching. They have counting, thinking, following directions, and family conversations. Right now we like dominos and UNO best.
For a book I like "Smart Boys" as a good parenting read. I need to get "Smart Girls" because I just had a daughter. Actually I feel more qualified to raise a daughter. I'm glad I read "Smart Boys".
I'm enriching my preschooler right now with cursive lessons from handwriting without tears brand workbook and teachers book. It's very satisfying. Right now he's tracing to memorize the patterns of correct cursive.
Sorry you didn't get into the school you wanted.

If you want more suggestions let me know. We'll talk.

DeHe....Snarky! LOL, I love that word!

IMO. you didn't sound snarky, just frustrated. Those of us that have been at this awhile understand and take nothing personal.

For what it's worth, I think the soapbox is a fine place. If more parents raised hell, do you think our education system would be in the sorry state it is now?

So scream away! Hell, buy a megaphone!

As someone who has given over 100 WPPSIs, I can tell you that scores vary quite a lot over time. Especially the younger the child is when the test is given.

I tend to put more stock in the WISC. When kids are 6, they are more amenable to testing, and the score is more stable.

You can make your child more comfortable with they type of testing materials, which can improve scores a little. If you want suggestions, I can provide some ideas.