My son was identified for the gifted program at his last school using the Olsat. We moved and my son (now a 3rd grader)just got back his Cogat scores that his new school wanted him to take (we did not put him in the gifted program here yet)- not in the gifted range with these. (we can still apply using the other scores and omitting these at his new school if we decide to go that route.)

We have been worried about LDs with my son ever since he was smaller (always delays- but mostly physical and he has a speech delay still(on IEP) and really struggles with reading/spelling/writing)

My question is- his ability profile is 5E(N+) (his non-verbal was really high- not quite gifted range though)What do we do with this. The school at his last IEP meeting convinced us that we did not need to really worry with any further testing for LDs (he had a private eval in 1st and it was recommended that we retest later). The E worries me a little. Should I contact the school and have an IEP review again. Everything that I can find online says that E profiles require a closer look- but what do they mean by that? Do not want to be the over reacting parent- but at the same time do not want to ignore it if it signals a problem.
He loves school and does really well (except reading and spelling)so there is no stong "need" to get him into the gifted program (it is a center based school). We really want him just to get caught up with reading (or at least have the problem identified- if there even is a problem) and then worry about the program.

Thanks

The E means that there was a large discrepancy between at least two of his scores, by more than 20 pts.. The N+ means his strength was in the Nonverbal. Follow this link which the score was plugged in and it will give you more specific information.
http://www.riversidepublishing.com/products/group/cogat6/results.jsp

Sometimes they can represent an underlying disability or learning difficulty that warrants further investigation. Other times, it doesn't mean anything in particular, but it's worth lookin into. One think to keep in mind is that in 3rd grade the CogAT is no longer read to them, it is read by the child. Schools tend to think the scores starting at 3rd gr. are more reliable than early scores because of the fact that it is done by the student, not someone reading the questions to them. If you state that he has difficulty in reading already, that would probably explain the discrepancy. I would look into it to see if there is an underlying reason that may be causing him difficulty with reading and spelling etc. HTH!

What in his Olsat testing caused the prior school to think that a LD was out? Did he have high 90s scores on the whole thing?

In your instance, I really feel like you'd get more info from an individual IQ test and maybe individual achievement testing to see if there is a discrepency btwn his IQ and achievement.

FWIW, one of my dds's CogAT and IQ scores weren't that close to each other and she had totally different strengths on IQ vs. group test.

We have a similar issue my dd7 was given a COGAT and an NNAT. Her NNAT was average - 104. Her COGAT was a 150 in Verbal a 135 in Quantitative and a 119 in Nonverbal. Clearly the nonverbal is not her strength. Her composited comes to 142 with a 9E profile. I don't really understand what kind of intellect Nonverbal tests or identifies. She is doing very well in school. Is she missing something? She is pretty bad at jigsaw puzzles :-)

lanfan, this should help you understand what that portions covers :

Non-Verbal Battery
The Nonverbal Battery presents the most novel problems to students. The items on these tests use only geometric shapes and figures that have had little direct relationship to formal school instruction. The tests require no reading. The nonverbal battery is particularly suitable for obtaining an accurate estimate of development for students who have difficulty with reading, who have limited competency in English, or who have limited opportunities. The tests in the nonverbal battery are between fifteen and twenty-five questions each and students are given ten minutes for each test.

Figure Classification
The student is given three figures that are alike in some way. They are given three answer choices and five pictures to choose from. They are asked to decide which figure goes best with the three answer choices.
Example: The student is given three items that are odd shaped but each one has 4 sides and is black.
Choices: a black circle; a black triangle; a 4 sided white object; a black 4 sided object; six-sided white object.
Figure Analogies
The student is given three figures. The first two figures go together; the third figure goes with one of the answer choices.
Example: The first two figures are a large square that goes together with a small square. The second pair is to go together the same way that the first two figures go together. For the second pair you are given a large circle.
Choices: a small triangle; a large circle; a small square; a small circle; and a large rectangle.
Figure Analysis
The student is shown how a square piece of dark paper is folded and where holes are punched in it. The student is to figure out how the paper will look when it is unfolded.
Example: If a dark piece of paper is folded in the center from top to bottom and a hole is punched in the bottom right hand corner, what will the piece of paper look like when it is unfolded?
Choices: A) one hole in the bottom right hand corner; B) one hole in the bottom right hand corner and one in the top right hand corner; C) one hole in the top right hand corner; D) one hole in the bottom right hand corner and one in the bottom left hand corner; E) one hole in the bottom right hand corner and one in the top left hand corner.

hth!

Understood. I don't think her brain works that way. She is bright in a more intuitive - understands people's motives and can infer meaning - and common sense kind of way rather than the abstract concepts this seems to capture. My other daughter did pretty well but she is very good at jigsaw puzzles.

Thanks so much for the response.

I have a child like the daughter you are describing. Understands people and things well beyond her years! Even with the lower end of the 119 your DD"s scores are phenomenal (don't let that slip your mind in the least .)

Sometimes the E rating is meaningless on an individual test. Again, because the test is read to them and the directions told to them at that age, it could have been the wording of the person giving the test that threw her off. I would venture to guess that was more an inaccurate NV score for her than anything.

thanks so much.

No problem!

Thanks for the responses and such!! :-)

His old school was the one worried about possible LDs. His new (current) school is the one who acted like we were crazy for even suggesting it. The school psychologist completely dismissed the copy of the "private" school psychologist report saying she didn't see any reason why he made his assessments or recommendation for further testing. (and declined the invitation to call and talk to him in person)We are always on the fence whether we believe that he has any issues or if we are crazy over reacting parents. (so it is farely easy to sway us if a strong enough case is presented. At the time what she said made perfect sense- but now I am not so sure)

Reasons we worry/worried about LDs- he did not learn his alphabet until the 1st grade (he has caught up since then remarkably fast!)and it was not a lack of trying. Had horrible time learning colors (and we have had eye sight and other possible eye issues examined more than once with no cause to believe that there are any issues there)Even now- he has trouble telling time on digital clocks- numbers are hard to read he says (5's and 2's especially) He has a speech delay still (which he is on an IEP for and received speech at school 2x a week)Even though he has caught up to grade level in reading- it is a huge struggle for him still. Alphabetizing his spelling words (20 of them usually) can take him over 20-30 mins if we do not sit there and help. When he took the OLST- he did very well (130 on non-verbal- not highly gifted by any means- but in range but his verbal was pretty low)but the ACC ranges were low on every subtest except 2 (one of those oddly being the language subtest!)

The main reason we think we might be crazy in worrying- he gets almost perfect scores- even on his spelling test (but we drill him all week on them- if asked the next week to spell them- he can't do most of them)He loves school and seems really happy in his class.

So, it sounds like there was some consistency btwn the OLSAT and CogAT in that he was in the MG or slightly below range on the non-verbal part of each and not in the gifted range on the other parts. Since the CogAT composite score came out in the 5th stanine, though, I'm having to imagine that his verbal and/or quantitative parts came out below average to bring down the non-verbal part.

Given what else you say, I do wonder if having to read it himself might have slowed him down and impacted his scoring. The non-verbal part doesn't require as much reading so that would make sense that it would be his highest area if he struggles more with quick reading.

If you have the ability to do so, I'd see if you can get a more individualized eval done: IQ, achievement, and maybe a look at dyslexia.

^^^ Loved the video! :-)

Felt like that when the school psych told us what she thought of the private psychs eval when she had held in her hands for less than 5 mins ;-).

Dottie,

Great video - absolutely spot on.