WISC results..vindication - Gifted Issues Discussion Forum

Hi, so after much consideration I decided to offer the opportunity to my DD12 to be retested with someone who knew about gifted stuff.... She decided to do it. We were going to be traveling around so we added it in.... She has had all the signs and symptoms of being gifted but excluded from gifted programs etc. due to not quite high enough scores...(I posted her SB V scores a few months ago) So here are her scores and I am hoping Dottie and anyone else will make comments... I am curious she "ceiling" the test on 6 of the 10 subtests I will star those:

Block Design* 52/13
Similarities* 40/18
Digit Span 24/16
Picture concepts* 21/12
Coding 62/12
Vocabulary* 56/17
Letter number seq. 20/12
Matrix reasoning*30/15
Comprehension* 36/17
Symbol search 34/13

VCI 144 99.8%
PRI 121 92
WMI 123 94
PSI 115 84
FSIQ 134 99
GAI 139 99.5%

How can she ceiling a test and not have an 18?
This will finally qualify her for some gifted resources at school. My DD is really different these past few days. SHe has always been like one if not the most fastest learners in her class... yet not validated by test scores. I think she trusts her smarts more. I hate to say it but I also feel so much better. I have been treating her as gifted without the test scores but there has always been a wiggly feeling of doubt and I am sure that she has sensed it..... I am enjoying planning how to show the scores to the gifted dept. personnel. I think her scores are better because it was her choice... The first test she knew we were thinking of changing her school etc. and her heart was not in it.
So any comments will be appreciated.

Flower, I'm glad your wiggly feeling of doubt is gone. That's a great feeling and I can relate! Happy, happy! Nan

Besides what Dottie mentioned (or perhaps to clarify)...

Block Design has a lot of time bonus points available, which she may not have gotten. The tester can calculate a BDN (Block Design No Time Bonus) score and compare it to the BD score -- the norms can tell you how common the split is. Very useful information, because it can speak to working style.

Vocab, Similarities, and Comprehension all score items as 0, 1, or 2. You don't discontinue until the scores are straight 0 for the required number. Kid could be getting partial credit and keep going forever. That in itself is again very useful, especially if you look at *why* she's getting partial credit, what's being missed and what's being gotten.

That's great information to have, Aimee. My DD8 is just becoming curiouser and more curiouser....

She just took the WISC IV. If I were to ask the tester about whether or not she had a pattern of partial credit and his opinion of why........can you suggest how I should do so? You know, so that I don't come across as pushy...or INSANE!!!

TIA
Neato

Congrats. I'm glad that the results of the test have left your dd feeling more confident. Did you wind up going to the GDC for testing, then, or elsewhere?

hi thank u for the responses...nan. that feeling has been hard to live with. not wanting to be a pushy parent etc. also I can not imagine being a teacher they do something I could never do. I can barely handle one...

I get the ceiling stuff now. I am curious abt applying for dys help. I would love free consultation. Her 144 in verbal is just below the line with ceiling in all subtests. Would they take that into consideration? I only have quick and dirty achievement but was wondering abt portfolio with some wonderful stories she has written and some of her math scores in basically self taught algebra one in sixth grade. I also wld love the opportunity for her to meet some other schooly kids as she refers to herself.....

I am talking to her abt the SAT but also have concern because it is a timed test I think and she is slower in her processing speed and tends to over think multiple choice questions.

Any advice or thoughts?

The application calls for qualifying score on IQ test and/OR out of level achievement test. I would have take the SAT or ACT and then decide. That's just my 2 cents.

Originally Posted by incogneato

The application calls for qualifying score on IQ test and/OR out of level achievement test. I would have take the SAT or ACT and then decide. That's just my 2 cents.

The info on the application and website says that you need both IQ and achievement at the 99.9th, not just one or the other. If you have one but not the other b/c the child has only done out of level testing, but not IQ, for instance, they do have the portfolio option. My understanding w/ the portfolio was that it was for children who hadn't taken one of the required tests, not for kids who had taken the tests but whose scores were just a bit too low.

I don't know for sure how much they would be willing to consider kids who are just a bit too low as we've never applied, though. One of my girls is in a similar spot w/ the WISC VCI at age 7.5 at the 99.7th with scores of 19, 17, and 15 and with a second administration of the WISC having the VCI at the 99th (scores of 18, 18, and 12). I don't have any good reason to believe that this kiddo would be a candidate for DYS, though although her first WISC PRI was in the 99th which does put her GAI at the 99.9th. It seems to be the highest score she's had on anything, though, so we are viewing it as more of an outlier than an absolute indication that she is that able.

In your case, if you strongly feel that she is DYS material, though, it might be worth starting with the SAT and seeing where you go from there. My eldest is also not a fast child and has anxiety about timed tests. She has gotten through the SAT with no major issues and scored fairly well nonetheless.

Cricket this is interesting because on the main page for the DYS program is says something different than the link for qualifying criteria. Here's what is says on the main page for the DYS program:

OPTIONS

IQ Testing*: A full written report for an individually administered IQ (intelligence) test from the Qualifying Tests and Score Guidelines. A full written report often includes the tester�s observations, tests administered, test scores, summary and explanation of findings, and recommendations.

AND/OR

Achievement Testing*: A score report for a talent/search college placement test from the Qualifying Tests and Score Guidelines OR a full written report for an individually administered achievement test from the Qualifying Tests and Score Guidelines. A full written report often includes the tester�s observations, tests administered, test scores, summary and explanation of findings, and recommendations.

AND/OR

Work Samples: A portfolio of at least three pieces of the applicant�s work that best demonstrate his/her advanced abilities in academic areas. Independent work that is completed without the assistance of teachers or parents and is 2 to 3 grade levels above age peers is preferred. Some of the most informative samples have included intellectual activities the applicant has completed just for fun and completely on their own, such as math �doodles,� creative writing, or autonomous projects. DVD/CD recordings demonstrating your child�s academic abilities may also be included. In order for the portfolio items to be viewed in the context in which they were completed, please briefly describe each item, including the applicant�s age and grade level at the time of completion, as well as the circumstances of the work (i.e. if it was completed independently or as part of a school project, how many times the work was revised, how and why the applicant completed this particular piece of work, etc.).

*Additional tests not listed on the Qualifying Tests and Score Guidelines, such as the Stanford-Binet Form L-M, may be submitted in addition to, but not in place of, the tests listed on that page.

However, if you click the link to qualification criteria it says this:

At least one of the tests submitted in a Young Scholars application must have been administered no more than two years prior to the application date. As we strive to serve the extreme of the gifted population, the following scores are considered to be MINIMUM criteria for the Davidson Young Scholars program on both IQ and achievement testing. Test reports are reviewed in the context of a full application to determine eligibility for this program. Upon review of the application, additional testing or information may be requested in order to determine the applicant�s eligibility. If you cannot access testing due to financial constraints, you may submit a portfolio of work samples in place of testing.

Hmmm, thinking about this I see this sentence as the sticking point:

As we strive to serve the extreme of the gifted population, the following scores are considered to be MINIMUM criteria for the Davidson Young Scholars program on both IQ and achievement testing.

I'm going to refer this to the moderator and see if he can clear it up.

That's the conclusion I come up with as well. But I think if Flower thinks their child should take the SAT, I say go for it.

Yeah, I think in that situation, it would be tough to establish the qualification criteria.

Incogneato, So did you ever get any feedback from the moderator? My dd had a qualifying IQ scores (PR, FSIQ and GAI all over 145) but as she is 2e didn't have comparable achievement scores. Her highest was a 98th percentile on the broad math. I just assumed that she didn't qualify for DYS. I didn't want to waste my time if it was a bright line rule.

No, not yet. I would recommend that you call them and tell them the situation. Perhaps they could let you know whether or not you should go ahead and apply.

Hi everyone,

We updated the Young Scholars Application Process page a bit to try to make things a little more clear: http://www.davidsongifted.org/young...cholars____Application_Process_380.aspx.

We will be making more updates in the near future as we try to overhaul the application process pages to make things as clear as possible.

Please contact DavidsonScholars@davidsongifted.org if you have any specific questions.

Mark