I have two children, a second grader a kindergardener. When my kids were preschool ages I had many friends whose kids were around the same ages and I am not exaggerating, almost every single one of these kids was so advanced compared to my children! My friends had their kids in montessori preschools and most of them told me that their child was in the gifted range. Now as you can imagine I felt concern for my young preschool aged kids because they seemed so late with everything, from potty training to socialization to even talking and then once they talked it seemed like it took a while to talk well with decent grammar. When my eight year old started kindergarten he couldn't even hold a pencil and the teacher couldn't tell if he was right or left handed (turns out he's a lefty)! Anyway, I accepted the fact that my kids were dull to average in intelligence and that everyone else had these gifted kids.

Well fast forward just two years from there and my son is in second grade in a good public school. Somehow and I don't know how, he is testing at a fifth grade reading level and an eighth grade math level. He has been struggling with kids wanting to copy off of his paper and then later they bully him and call him 'nerd' and 'weird'. He tells me all he wants in life is to be average. All the gifted kids we knew now seem so much less advanced. My son was even told to tutor one of the gifted kids. Ironically, one of those gifted kids now bullies my son and calls him 'nerd'. My friends still think they have the gifted kids and still think my children are dull, but that doesn't seem to be the case anymore. I don't like their assumptions of superiority especially when I don't consider them to be very intellectual.

So what I don't understand is why there is so much emphasis on kids doing things early.. From my experience kids who are early to develop end up being average in intelligence later on. As an analogy, even animals seem to mature very early compared to humans as if humans need a slower, but longer maturation to increase intelligence or develop optimal cortical formation. Preschools promote early learning, give false hope to parents that their children are gifted and then make a good profit. The teacher recommended him for the gifted program, but all the slots were filled up, presumably by the kids who were labelled gifted before kindergarten.

Nothing is as simple as it appears I have found. I also have realized that it is really difficult to gage what other kids are doing. That is, just because I don't see a kid with a Harry Potter book in his hand, doesn't mean that he is not reading it at home.

While many of the early bloomers are indeed gifted and will continue to be so, some of them have been completely turned off by a lack of challenge in school. There are others who were "hothoused" in the earlier years, evening out as other catch up in reading or math.

Then there are some like your kids who had other interests in preschool and were not early readers for example. Looking back, can you tell that they were smart? For instance, my girls were by no means early on the academics (although my oldest did start reading at 4, she had NO interest in letters before that, she did not count to 100 early on, etc.); but I was aware that they were very smart from the things they said, their complex pretend play, etc.

What is the deal with your gifted program? I would not take a "no" that easily. How do they identify gifted students? How are spaces allocated? I can see them turning him down for this year, but I have a harder time understanding that they would be no space for him ever. Can you talk to the gifted coordinator for your district? Check online to see their policies or ask for those in written format.

There are those who are late bloomers. Our dds are in a gifted school and I have heard of parents enrolling one of their children but not another, then suddenly, the other one starts to take off academically, and they realize that s/he was gifted as well.

They put my son on the list, but I have the feeling that there are others on this list too and I don't expect many spaces to open up.
As far as my kids showing signs of higher intelligence early on, I have to say that they almost seemed like they had a low IQ. I did all the 'right' things, reading to them, talking from the time they were infants, but both were slow. My daughter didn't even start verbalizing or understanding language until after age 2. Every child I encountered who was her age at the park was developmentally further along. Some things gave me hope that they weren't somehow disabled. They both loved jigsaw puzzles and worked on them together. Also, my son had a great knack for video games, playing very well for a small boy and my daughter was great with all the television technology that my husband has set up.
The whole thing is strange and I have to keep reminding myself that my 'slow' son is actually bright and maybe even more.

Chalk up at least 3 of my kids as late bloomers, of the somewhat 2E variety. In particular, I distinctly remember the conversation with the school psych telling me that my then-3 y.o. was severely developmentally delayed. While that was shocking to hear, I had to surpress a laugh inside, because I knew he was a bright boy. In fact, he's still blooming now at 7 y.o. - he isn't finished yet, by a long shot

This late blooming, in combination with the early deficits, has resulted in an internal struggle for me. Because there was so long that the world focused on what they could not do, I have a hard time shutting myself up about what they can do, i.e., I have a hard time not bragging. I want to shout it from the rooftops, if you know what I mean.

Check out some of Silverman's Visual Spatial writings. From what I was told about my youngest dd, these types of kids can make very huge leaps in their abilities. They have many "peaks and valleys." This might be one reason for the later blooming.

This is currently true for my other dd, who tested extrememly high on IQ but just now has started to show her academic abilities with great leaps of growth. Her MAP scores have just jumped like crazy. She seems to be showing her Giftedness more each day and it's amazing to us how much different she is from Sept. until now.

Connie: I think a lot of parents put their kids in "learning" environments really early because they want the structure and to make sure their kids are getting something academic out of school. At least that's my impression of the folks I know who have their children in Montessori environments for preschool.

Personally, I think that kind of structure isn't age appropriate. I opted for play-based preschools b/c I felt that was best for his development. I did naturally incorporate learning into play, read all the time, etc., but that's just how I am. What I found most interesting with my younger son, who is a kindergartner reading at grade 3 level, is that his preschool teachers didn't even know he could read. Even though he's so far ahead academically, I sometimes just think that it's not so much that he's gifted, but that he's motivated to be an equal to his brother who is two years older. I often call him a case of "older brother syndrome."

Sounds like your friends aren't really very nice people. My second-grader has had to deal with a fair amount of bullying as well, dating back to kindergarten. It's sad that bullying starts so early. I have been lucky in that my son has had teachers who have changed some things around to put a stop to the bullying. If your school isn't doing this, it should be. And it certainly shouldn't pair your son up with a child who is bullying him. That just makes it worse.

There is no pre-k school that is skill-appropriate for Mr W (27 mos). Montessori, because of its different approach and flexibility, ended up being the best compromise - essentially we enrolled Mr W in Montessori as the BASIS for a play-based approach for him.

When we were looking for a place for him, we got some push back from other schools that some things were not "age appropriate" when we queried them about flexibility in learning paths. They saw him as an object to be placed in a abstract hierarchy, not as a human being.


Within his first week there, Mr W's teachers and the school admin approached us to tell us that he was very advanced. This validated our perception that they saw him as a kid who wants to learn and not as an object. They notice new milestones about 2 weeks after we do.

FWIW, that has been our experience too, with our fourth child currently in a Montessori preschool. While a lot depends on the implementation of the method, for our kids (some of whom have had huge disparities between strengths and weaknesses) it's as close as we're going to come to ideal. The flexibility for the individual student has been critical for us, as well as the hands-on, visual approach to learning.

I am waiting for them to find the "late reader, but then takes off like a rocket" gene. My Ds both have it. Neither really read until near the end of 1st grade, in spite of very good verbal skills and much encouragement at home and school. But once they started reading... within 12 months, D2 was reading Lord of the Rings (the whole thing!). And she finished 3rd in the Midwest Academic Talent SAT CR in 8th grade for her age group. I read late as well, but have been a voracious reader ever since the day I figured out that G-O-A-T spelled "goat" (really, I remember the light bulb going on!).

I have also noticed that there are years when D2 makes great leaps in learning, and other years when she is just more average. The "great leap" years are breathtaking, that is for sure. But we have learned not to expect them every year and in every subject

Whenever I see late bloomers, I feel the need to mention the story of my uncle.
Aged 2, my uncle fell out of the window of a two story house. He survived, but spent years in and out of hospital, and my grandmother was informed not to 'expect much' and under any circumstance she must not attempt to 'teach' him - letters, numbers etc. He went through elementary school 'behind', failed important examinations and was put in the 'slow' stream.
Today, of Grandma's four children, he is the one with the Phd., the author of numerous successful books, accomplished musician, linguist and all round academic.
We'll never know if the accident is what led to delayed achievement of if he would have been a late bloomer anyway, but the story always gives me pause.

I've been trying to find a study (I read online some time back) which showed siblings IQs don't correlate so well at age 4, but they do correlate very well at age 12 and 18. I find it interesting because only one of my three sons appeared extremely gifted at age 4. My oldest has a significant disability (autism) and my youngest just seemed to me more average (not disabled but not unusually bright either). Now that youngest is 8 he has "taken off like a rocket" and we now know he is very, very bright too. My oldest (who was thought to have mild MR as late as age 5) now beats me at chess (all the time), and may turn out to be the most gifted of the three. He writes and his writing has been picked up by international political groups (they have no idea the author is an autistic teenager).

One significant issue my kids had which somewhat delayed reading competence was a lag in development of their visual tracking. Intparent, your kids might have had something similar. When the tracking ability reaches the needed level, reading takes off.

On a related topic, I know there is ongoing discussion and debate about how early development of motor skill in early childhood does (or does not) predict giftedness. I have a friend whose father was a famous athlete (baseball). His grandsons acquired the ability to zip up their jackets (joining disconnected ends easily) and other similar fine motor skills amazingly early. My friend also noted that her nephews at at age 2 could hit balls pitched in their direction, and while my sons STILL have trouble hitting a ball with a bat, these kids really could do it easily at two. There ARE different gifts, and not all are interchangeable IMO.

Wow Lulu - that is an amazing story and one that does give a person pause. We are not necessarily defined by who we are and what we are doing at age 2 or 3, are we?

Both my kids are late bloomers by the standards set on this board. They both made huge leaps their kindergarten year catching up to most of the early readers. But both had an intensity, creativity, and questioning nature that was there all long looking back. I thought my son wildly visual spatial, but he's a strong speller and has other things that indicate he's more balanced than I would have thought originally.

In our community of highly involved parents and very academic preschools, it's really not at all unusual for kindergarteners to read. Honestly, sending my DS to kindergarten after seeing the other kids, I though he might be a remedial student. But now that these kids that are my son's age have rearranged a bit as 3rd and 4th graders. Some stick out as clearly gifted, and some are very comfortable and happy at grade level. And I know a few late bloomers too that have really blossomed.

Thank you for your comments

My son has definitely been bullied a bit, but has been able to deflect some of it by being a bit of a clown. He has been calling himself smart this year, but believes this to be a negative thing (despite what I tell him) because he believes this makes a person unlikable.

The other parents haven't bullied me, but I do think they may have enjoyed having the smarter kids before and now that we are 'competition' for them they are not being nearly as friendly. I am comparatively young, non-white and uneducated and maybe they didn't think that I would be the one to have the academic children. They always did treat me with a bit of condescension. They still like to remind me of how early their kids did everything, but at this point it seems so irrelevant. I know this sounds terrible, but I am skeptical of their children's giftedness in part because of the parents' apparent inability to think independently.

As far as hothousing, I don't think any of these parents that I know believe that they are hothousing. It is always somebody else that is doing the hothousing if you know what I mean. They believe that their kids have the natural gifts (even if they admit to you they used hooked on phonics) and it is the other ones who are pushing and pressuring.

I'm still don't know if my son is gifted or just bright, but I don't want him to give up when it seems like he is just beginning to take off. I want him to have the guidance and support to take advantage of what this country has to offer. I don't want him to 'try' to be average because that's what people in this neighborhood expect him to be.

I agree, it sounds as though that's a real danger, particularly if the school can't find a way to put him in the gifted programme where at least he'd have more time with other gifted children. I also wonder whether your DS's teacher really realises how bright he is - if he's clowning to fit in, it may be that, even though she's realised he's gifted, he's above the level she thinks he is at. I'm not from the US and am not familiar with the systems, but if you are it might be worth thinking about IQ testing - AIUI, in some states, schools are obliged to arrange and pay for this if parents request it (see link How gifted-friendly is my state over on the left). At the very least, sounds like an in-depth talk with the teacher about the bullying, about how he seems to be hiding his abilities to fit in, and about possible plans for challenging him in the classroom, would be in order. Good luck!

I think some children, especially boys, can be "late bloomers" simply because they are too disorganized to present their best work. When I was a boy in 1st or 2nd grade, I got a bad grade in math because I did my test and then forgot to turn it in, putting it in my desk instead. A teacher said at a parent-teacher conference that "if his head weren't attached, he'd lose that too". Although I scored as exceptionally gifted on an IQ test in early elementary school (according to the definitions at http://www.hoagiesgifted.org/highly_profoundly.htm ), I only started to get my act together in 7th grade, nudged by my parents, who informed me it was time to get serious after I brought home a report card of only 2 A's and 5 B's. They knew I could do better, and I did.

My 6yo 2nd-grade son often forgets to turn his homework assignments and has a collection of about 1/2 dozen lunch boxes somewhere in school that he has not brought home. I do encourage him to do his best in school and turn his homework, but I think excessive nagging at home would distract him from his reading and other intellectual interests. I hope he will mature by late elementary school. My wife is stricter and worries that early bad habits will persist in later grades. Who is right?

If grades in high school are "high-stakes", those in elementary school are "low-stakes" -- the child will be advanced to the next grade almost regardless of performance. Gifted kids already know much of the material. Maybe they are being rational in not taking school too seriously.

My son was not an early reader like so many here - he knew a few simple words before K, but wasn't reading as such. In K, he totally took off with the reading - he is now in 1st (for a couple more weeks - where DID the year go ??) - his reading/comprehension are at least a 5th grade level. Funny thing is - through this school year, his main failing was his comprehension, even on grade level stuff. Until we told him he was supposed to actually take note of what he was reading - since then, he's doing fine. He's in the process of being tested to see if he's gifted or not - it'll be interesting to see how he did

Bostonian, unfortunately some "late bloomers" in organization have more going on than just bad habits. While D (now in high school) has tremendous verbal skills (and test scores), it has become pretty clear this year that she has some issues with executive functions that are not getting better over time. Your S may mature in this area during middle school, but not everyone does or can. Even gifted kids...

I wonder if the "late blooming" in her skills is evidence of some other 2E issue that is also showing up with the executive function issues. Maybe she is compensating with her verbal skills for a big gap on the non-verbal side or in some area that just doesn't show up in testing.

this is what bothers me about most schools though. Let's say by chance your son doesn't score in what the school considers "gifted" but his reading is that far ahead. (probably will be gifted but there are those that read well beyond and are not for example.)
how will they accomadate these learners. Will he still be sitting through two more years of reading "instruction" far below were he is at.
This is why too many kids turn off to school, drives me crazy!

I think he'll be OK - despite not being tested yet, he has been going to the gifted program within the school, since Spring conferences. He has also been going to 2nd grade for math, and to math enrichment with the gifted teacher, since last fall. I know how lucky he has been - and the school have said this will continue, whatever the results of the testing !