Okay, so I'm a little perplexed. My DD is taking the MAP tests from home (through ACCES). She's a 4th grader.
What I want to know is whether there is only one MAP test (for each subject) that covers material all the way up through high school? Or, is there a different (easier) version for, say, elementary students, and a harder version for high schoolers?
Although I didn't get to read many of the Language Usage questions (DD did not want me hovering), I have a hard time believing that the test actually covered high-school level material.
It's my understanding that as long as you're using MAP not P-MAP (for K-2nd) that you have the ability to get up to high school level. Because the test is "computer assisted" it adjusts the level of questions depending on the number of correct answers. So after a certain number right, it ups the level of difficulty.
Inky is our MAP expert, hopefully she'll stop by with more specifics. This is our first year dealing with MAP tests but my son has taken both MAP and P-MAP this year.
Definitely using regular MAP (and not the K-2 version).
Maybe it's analogous to the math on the SAT situation (only testing math up through Algebra 1 and basic geometry). Clearly we expect even bright high school seniors to know math beyond that. Likewise, I would expect bright kids to know grammar beyond the very basic.
On page 2 of the teacher's handbook, they mention important differences between tests for grade level 2-5 and 6+. Unfortunately, no specifics. http://www.nwea.org/support/article/1151 I'm assuming the section below is the ceiling for the 6+ but I can't find any information about ceilings for 2-5 and K-2. http://www.nwea.org/support/article/532
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A ceiling effect exists when an assessment does not have sufficient range to accurately measure students at the highest performance levels. It has nothing to do with the actual numbers attached to the scale and everything to do with the position of students on it. For example, in reading, the RIT scale measures with relative accuracy up to about 245. This represents the 93rd percentile at grade 10, and the 95th percentile at grade 8. If a student scores above we know that student performed high but may not be able to accurately assess how high they performed. Relative to other tests, therefore, there is very little true ceiling effect in this assessment. Even most high performing 10th graders receive a technically accurate measure of their skill.
Under MAP for primary grades they mention using it for pre-K and at higher grades but again, no specifics.
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What grades should be tested with these assessments? Kindergarten, first and second grades are appropriate places to utilize these assessments. They may also be used for some pre-kindergarten students and at higher grades for evaluating specific needs for intervention.
Found some more specifics reading old posts: https://illinoisnwea.wikispaces.com/FAQ+MAP What is the difference between the 2-5 version and the 6+ version of the tests? - Math 2-5: has no items including computation with decimals, fractions, percents, etc. - Math 6+: includes those computation items listed above, also ratio and proportion and other more difficult skills - Reading 2-5: passage length cannot exceed 100 words - Reading 6 +: passage length can go up to 600 words NOTE: This does not effect how high the student can score on the test. A student who takes a 2-5 test can score just as high as a student on a 6+ test, but the content is limited.
For any of you considering MAP testing at home, I did notice a few things that it would have been useful to know before registering (through ACCES):
1) ACCES registered DD for the "Survey" tests, without goals. It appears from their form, however, that it might be an option to register for the tests with goals. On the chart to determine which test to use (see Inky's link to Teachers' Manual) it says that the shorter "Survey" tests are not suitable for tracking achievement. That was probably my main reason for having DD take the test.
2) I did not realize that there are actually two versions of the test (for grades 2-5 and for grades 6+). Had I known this, I would have signed DD up for the 6+ test so that there would be no ceiling issues. As an interesting side note, the Language Survey does not appear to have separate versions (at least not from what's listed on the ACCES registration from). Anyone know if that's true or not?
What still puzzles me is how they can have norms through 11th grade, if the grade 2-5 test doesn't have material that covers high school. The RIT charts with percentiles don't seem to distinguish between the versions of the test.
Maybe I should just stick with EXPLORE! Seems less complicated.
1) ACCES registered DD for the "Survey" tests, without goals. It appears from their form, however, that it might be an option to register for the tests with goals. On the chart to determine which test to use (see Inky's link to Teachers' Manual) it says that the shorter "Survey" tests are not suitable for tracking achievement. That was probably my main reason for having DD take the test
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WHAT????????????? That was my MAIN reason for taking this test!!!!!
I wondered about that when I got the packet in w/ the survey vs goals.
It was my understanding it was K-1, and 2-12........ This wasn't an issue for my 1st grader but may be an issue for my 4th grader testing next week.
My reason for going with this one is that it's untimed and DS has timer issues. He took the Explore this year as well.
Math 2-5: has no items including computation with decimals, fractions, percents, etc.
My DS1st grade just took the 2-5 test through A.C.C.E.S. Inc. It started with addition with decimals. It has had fractions. One fraction question was didn't involve computation and one did involve addition of fractions. Another involved fractions/decimals/percents.
Inky reported this in the other MAP thread: (goals). It's reported as 3 different 10 point ranges (below, at, and above the RIT score):
1. Skills and Concepts to Enhance (73% probability students would correctly answer items measuring these concepts and skills) 2. Skills and Concepts to Develop (50% probability) 3. Skills and Concepts to Introduce (27% probability)
I don't see any info like that in the above pdf which says it's page 1 of 1. Thanks!
I did see mention of a short form and a long form at the A.C.C.E.S Inc website but I don't recall being given a choice on the registration form as to which we wanted. I will call tomorrow.
Inky - what's your opinion on testing a bright 4th grader w/ the 2-5 test? He missed DYS numbers on the Explore this year by 2points (he had composite, reading, and if science had another 2 points) to give you an idea of his level.
ALso, I haven't read the links you posted above, time to cook dinner, but I wonder what is the use of this short version if it can't be used to track progress? I wanted the details about specifics areas in math, reading, lang arts to focus on.
How do I know which test I should give a student? Several tests are available for administration in each subject area. It is important that teachers understand the distinctions between these tests in order to correctly select a test for a specific student. For each subject, there are Survey w/ Goals tests and Survey tests. Even though the names of these tests are similar, the end results of each are very different. The Survey w/ Goals test is the longer form of the test (between 42 and 64 items) and is the primary test given in the fall and the spring. This test will report not only an overall RIT score at the end, but it will also report how a student performed on each of the goal areas on the test; for example, Computation or Geometry. This gives teachers more data in order to make instructional decisions about a particular student or about an entire class.
The Survey test is a short test (20 items) that will simply survey the domain of a subject area. This test will only report an overall RIT score at the end. It is primarily given as an intake test when a student enters the district or as a monitoring tool mid-year to determine how a student is progressing. Teacher Handbook www.nwea.org 1
Other differences in the tests refer to grade level; for example, 2-5 and 6+. Be sure to review all of the choices and, as a district, select the test appropriate to the grade level of the student being tested. These tests have some important differences in the types of items that can be selected in order to build each student a unique test. The chart below, Guidelines for Choosing the Correct Test􏰀, is helpful in determining the correct test for a student. Guidelines for Choosing the Correct Test
In the chart, the Survey takes 30min and the goals test takes 65min. The Goals test has twice as many questions.
Ah ok, I get it now. I'm going to call ACCES in the AM and see if I can get him changed to the goals test. I'll be incredibly disappointed if not. The survey was perfect for my 1st grader however since he is so young and the 20min was about his limit.
Like Dottie, I'd also try to have your 4th grader tested on the 6+ test. The main reason is that the growth information will be the most useful for you over the next few years. I'd be more comfortable comparing growth on the same test instead of one where the ceiling issue could be coming into play. I saw it with DD8 when she went from P-MAP to the 2-5 this year and I had to recalibrate.
yep, I saw that and saw similar info in one of the links you posted. In that same document it had a different page that broke each RIT score into sub-scores for each area in Math for example. I'll call in the AM and report back.
I was reading the chart rather quickly, so perhaps I misinterpreted. There is another question that reads "Use to retest for achievement level tests." That one said "Not appropriate."
Now that I see the line that you mentioned, I'm not sure what the one above really means.
At any rate, I'll be interested to hear what ACCES says. It may be that only the short version is available to homeschoolers.
Also, when I looked at the RIT chart that has the sample questions that kids should be able to answer at each score level, it did seem to mesh reasonably well with the questions that I saw from the Language Test. Which brings up another point: on the form from ACCES, the Language Test doesn't list tests for 2-6 and 6+. I'm wondering if there IS only one level of Language test.
Perplexing, isn't it? I'm glad that it wasn't expensive.
Hope ACCES is willing to make the change. I didn't have any luck with the public school last year trying to get DD to use the 2-5 instead of the P-MAP for first grade.
If you read the testing instructions, it says "If they are taking the Goals Survey Test, it takes 2 to 3 hours to complete" so it sounds like it is possible to take the Goals survey test.
It's quite likely that they expect, that most kids would test near the average for based on the grade levels we put for our kids, they automatically chose the 2-5 test. I'm wondering what would happen if we just chose the Survey Goals test. When you log in, those are listed as well as the Survey tests.
FWIW, I probably won't bother trying to get ACCES to change DD's test to the 6+ version. It doesn't sound like there's a high enough ceiling even on the 6+ to make it worth testing again next year to measure growth. I'm thinking that the EXPLORE will work better for charting year-to-year progress. And if not, then there's always the SAT.
Which brings up another point: on the form from ACCES, the Language Test doesn't list tests for 2-6 and 6+. I'm wondering if there IS only one level of Language test.
You're welcome. It'll be interesting to see how your 4th grader's Explore and MAP scores compare. DD's MAP and Stanford Achievement test scores were very close. Hope taking the MAP test with no time pressures will build his confidence for next year's Explore and he'll get the DYS qualifying score.
But it looks like through ACCES, there is only MAP Survey 2-5 and MAP Survey w/ Goals for 6+.
I spoke w/ a technical support person at NWEA and gave him DS's Explore scores. He said that the Survey w/ Goals 6+ test is the best test for him. It will adjust down if need be and it will give more headroom when testing next year. The Survey tests are mainly used for kids entering a district or for checking mid-year progress. At any rate, certainly the MAP Survey w/ Goals 2-5 is the minimum I'd want to use. So I will call ACCES Inc now to see if I can switch him to the Survey w/ Goals 6+.
NJMOM - my 1st grader has already completed testing but the Survey 2-5 was perfect for him. My 4th grader has not started yet. I was planning on testing him next week.
Has your DD completed one of the tests already? I'm assuming your DD has completed the Language test? If so, I would just do the 6+ survey w/ goals for reading and math.
I didn't ask about the Language Test. Based on the info that Inky posted, it seems there is only one level of the Language TEst. You could call NWEA and ask them. They were very helpful as was Leslie Rawle at ACCES.
I was re-reading your earlier posts. Would the Explore really have more headroom than the MAP though? The Explore is an 8th grade test. After that you'd move to ACT and SAT but I don't know how useful those are for year to year as well as how does multiple testings affect college admissions. If the MAP does have up to 12th grade material, then it should be ok until about 8th grade I would think which is what I think Dottie was getting at in her posts. At that point, DC would taking ACT and SAT.
Interesting questions. I really don't know the answers, but my impression from seeing sample problems of both types of tests is that the EXPLORE and SAT (and ACT) are more comprehensive in scope. They may also have quite different norming samples. For my purposes, percentiles calculated from the college-bound population are more useful.
It would be fascinating to know exactly what content is included on MAP. My guess is that the math does not go beyond Algebra I and basic geometry. In that sense I doubt that it actually has anything that you or I would think of as 12th grade material.
DD (4th grade) has done all three of the MAP tests now (2-5 survey math, 2-5 survey reading, and Language survey). Yes, the 2-5 math did not have much headroom. The Reading test, on the other hand looks like it has quite a bit of headroom in terms of content of the questions (and I have a highly verbal kid). The actual percentiles don't matter much as you can look up the same score at any grade level, so if your DS scores 99th percentile in math for his grade, then you can check the same RIT score in the column for 5th grade, 6th grade and so on.
Actually, it's partly because of those tables that I wonder about the test. There is far less change in percentile from year to year than I would expect to see.
For the language test the level doesn't matter since there is only the one level.
If you end up having your DS take the 6+ tests, please post more and share your thoughts. I had planned to use the MAP tests as a benchmark to check progress from year to year, but now I'm not so sure.
Thanks, Inky. Those were the sample problems to which I was referring.
Perhaps some of the parents with older kids are in a better position to comment on the relative headroom of MAP vs. EXPLORE vs. SAT. And for advocacy purposes, have people gotten more mileage out of MAP scores or EXPLORE scores?
I'd love to hear opinions about that too. One plus for MAP is that it includes growth data. For children in public schools, this helps open the door for discussions about making sure the curriculum is sufficiently challenging to achieve growth goals. I can go to the parent teacher conferences and say "how will we make sure DD meets her MAP growth goals?" Not as big of a concern for homeschoolers though.
I was re-reading your earlier posts. Would the Explore really have more headroom than the MAP though? The Explore is an 8th grade test. After that you'd move to ACT and SAT but I don't know how useful those are for year to year as well as how does multiple testings affect college admissions. If the MAP does have up to 12th grade material, then it should be ok until about 8th grade I would think which is what I think Dottie was getting at in her posts. At that point, DC would taking ACT and SAT.
((Hand raised and waving)) I can answer this one! SATs taken before 9th grade are magically wiped away each June by College Board unless the score is so fabulous that the parent sends a letter requesting the scores to be saved, so before 9th grade there is Zero negative impact on Colleges.
My son took them at age 11/7th grade, age 12/8th grade, and age 13/9th grade.
No scores at age 11, because he left about 4/5th into it - just too much sitting. but there was a gratifying jump between age 12 and age 13!
There is various information available for certain months of the SAT for feedback, but we haven't really been able to make much sense of that.
As for advocacy, our local high school is intimately familiar with SAT, so whenever the faces start looking like: 'Oh, you are just another mistaken parent who thinks there child is special' I casually throw in the SAT scores and the doors start flying open.
My son has done the summer camps that required the SAT, and loved that experience, and having the talent search information has helps me 'believe' that 'not all gifted is the same' and helped me get an idea of his LOG.
Right now the plan is to have DS (now 9th grade)take the SAT every year just to see if he should really study and trust the colleges to do the math and figure it out. My hunch is that this won't backfire, but it could for some of the most selective schools. If the score keeps rising, then what's not to like?
Grinity, There was a discussion at the WTM board some time ago on the SAT. Someone there linked to an article addressing advanced kids who take the SAT every year. Some were crying fowl that they had a lot of time to practice taking the SAT that ND kids don't get. It was an interesting conversation.
Dottie - I think I get it now. Someone here mentioned, in a MAP thread, that there was some trigonometry on the test.
So the Explore is given to 8th graders but it's not 8th grade material? What grade material does it cover?
Dottie, Inky linked to a file of sample questions for the MAP math, lang arts, and reading.
What is the STAR math test? Is it your state test?
The link to sample questions for MAP is very useful. It's one of the reasons why I think the ceiling is too low for the test to be a useful benchmark for a GT kid.
Dottie, you are definitely right about the difference between average x-th graders and what GT parents think kids should be doing at that level. That's exactly why I think all of these grade levels and equivalents are so meaningless. My 4th grader has TONS left to learn, even in areas where she ceilings the test.
Really, my foray into all of this testing (SCAT, MAP, EXPLORE) was prompted by the desire to find a good benchmark test to measure DD's progress from year to year. We'll see if EXPLORE does the trick.
Is the EXPLORE more like the ACT and SAT in that those tests are really targeted for (and used by) the college-bound population?
Just one quick follow-up for those interested in this thread:
Although the math may not go beyond Algebra 1 or so, my impression of the Reading and Language tests of MAP is that they DO test high school level material. Not necessarily 12th grade honors or AP level, but something beyond middle school.
All this testing stuff could really make one insane. I figure the MAP will be good for DS4th grade for several more years along w/ the Explore for practice w/ timed tests.
This is from the conjuring.pdf that INky linked me to in my MAP thread.
8+9=10+?
A. 6 B. 9 C. 6 D. 17 E. 7
Most fourth-grade students in the MAP norm group do not answer this question correctly. The more advanced concept of balance or equivalency within an equation is introduced in this item. This concept is fundamental to algebra and makes this much more than a simple arithme- tic problem. The student must know how to solve a prob- lem by balancing the equation.
WHAT? My 1st grader just looked at this and said "7."
Looks like the MAP sample questions are similar to the NAEP (The Nation's Report Card). While it's impressive that a 4th grader can score better than most 8th graders, it's discouraging to see the kinds of questions most 8th graders miss:
Only 35% of 8th graders got this one correct (calculator available).
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Anita is making bags of treats for her sister's birthday party. She divides 65 pieces of candy equally among 15 bags so that each bag contains as many pieces as possible. How many pieces will she have left? A)33 B)5 C)4 D)3 E)0.33
Only half of 12th graders got this one correct:
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What percent of 175 is 7 ? A) 4% B)12.25% C)25% D)40%
That's how I felt when I got Ds's Explore scores.....the scores said less about him being smart than it did about the performance of the 8th graders ....
Only 35% of 8th graders got this one correct (calculator available).
The calculator is probably the reason many of them got it wrong. You have to do it mentally or by hand to get the remainder. I bet many of them had .33 for the answer sigh~
DDDOOOOHHHHHHH I bet you're right FloridaMama!!!! I just did it mentally. And since there answer from the calculator was a choice, they just assumed they had the right answer.
Some were crying fowl that they had a lot of time to practice taking the SAT that ND kids don't get. It was an interesting conversation. Dazey
That perspective didn't escape my notice, but in general, ND kids who are compliant and in families who are 'educationally competitive' are taking the SAT 3 or 4 times in their Junior and Senior year anyway, so I think it really doesn't matter enough to stop me.
Do kids who aren't compliant enough or come from not 'educationally competitive' families suffer an unfair disadvantage - yes, they do, but I think that the SAT score part is so small compared to the 'everything else' that it wasn't enough to matter to stop me. If I turn my attention to that after I've discharged my responsibility to my own actual child - and I might - I sure wouldn't start with extra chances at the SAT. I'd teach the parents to talk to (rather than at) their babies and offer choices to babies and toddlers. I'd try to support the parents to enjoy observing the babies closely.
My understanding is that any student (ND or gifted) could take the SAT as a middle schooler if he/she wanted. You don't have to take it as part of a talent search. Some talent searches only want 7th graders testing, so if I want my kid to take it in 8th grade, I have to register on my own. There is no reason an ND kid couldn't do the same. I know plenty of GT kids who opted out of taking it as 7th graders, but for my money, it's a great chance to take the test before it counts. I don't see why that's unfair - it's open to ND and GT alike.
My understanding is that any student (ND or gifted) could take the SAT as a middle schooler if he/she wanted. You don't have to take it as part of a talent search.
It is true that you can sign up directly with the talent search, so it is technically fair, but realistically, who would even think about doing that to their ND child? If you never hear about an opportunity, then you can't make a choice about it either way.
Inky, My DYS 8.11yrs is taking the MAP survey w/goals 6+ today through Acces. I wrote down the results. Now where do I find the charts to find out what the numbers mean??
He took the MAP Survey/w Goals 2-5 last year through a public school, so I have numbers to compare from this month last year.
NWEA's answer seems to be yes but I'm not entirely convinced. DD's RIT score was lower when she took the standard MAP in the fall than it had been the previous spring on the P-MAP. I think it was more of a difference between the tests than a "summer slump." http://www.nwea.org/support/article/1261
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When using the new norms, please keep in mind that MAP for Primary Grades represents downward extensions of the NWEA RIT scales in Reading and Mathematics. That is, the RIT scores reported from MAP for Primary Grades tests are on the same scales and are aligned with the RIT scores reported from standard NWEA MAP scores. [The Reading and Mathematics tests belong to the same underlying scales, but the MAP for Primary Grades tests allow student status to be estimated as early as the beginning of kindergarten, while the earliest standard MAP tests can commonly be used is beginning of grade 2.]
Thanks so much inky! I was trying to compare my DD's reading MAP score at the end of 1st grade (which she took with a 2nd grade class and therefore were on the standard MAP) and my DS's reading MAP scores at the end of 1st grade (which were on the MAP for Primary Grades). Not reading to compare children, just trying to get a sense of differences and similarities in prepartation for a discussion with the principal and GT coordinator.
Covenantcasa - do you mind sharing either here or in a private message to me, how your son's score compares between 2-5 w/ goals and 6+ w/ goals? My 4th grader is scheduled to take the MAP next week and I"m undecided as to which test to give. I know he'll be fine w/ Reading 6+ w/ goals and the Language Arts only comes in survey or w/ goals so no choice there but it's the math I"m undecided about. I spoke with NWEA and they suggested 6+ w/ goals but computer adaptive tests start near the middle and then go either up or down....I just worry about him being discouraged by the first problems being so hard.
What I'm not sure about is that Inky posted a link to a website saying that the 2-5 didn't have computation with fractions, decimals, and percents. My 1st grader took the 2-5 survey and it had simple computations with fractions and decimals.
Didn't someone ask for norms for the MAP for gifted kids or for the college-bound population? I have a chart which lists medians for gifted kids and grade level medians.
Someone emailed it to me. It's not pasting here and I don't have a web link to it. If anyone is interested I can try typing it out here.
Didn't someone ask for norms for the MAP for gifted kids or for the college-bound population? I have a chart which lists medians for gifted kids and grade level medians.
Someone emailed it to me. It's not pasting here and I don't have a web link to it. If anyone is interested I can try typing it out here.
Dazey
I didn't ask about it, but I'd love to see it if it isn't too much trouble. Or, if you prefer, you can email it to me (PM for address).
I just happened across a site with quite a lot of MAP info - I haven't gone through it thoroughly, so I don't know whether anything will be particularly useful here, but for what it's worth:
A student score at or above the following scores on a 6+ Mathematics Survey with Goals test suggests student readiness for: 230 Introduction to Algebra 235 Algebra 245 Geometry
The chart gave median scores for grades 2-11. I wonder if the 6+ designation is significant or not.
I believe this info is posted in one of Inky's link but the presentation is different so I apologize for posting it again. You can download pdf for 2-5 and 6+. It gives you skills and concepts to enhance (1 level below RIT), to develop (at RIT) and introduce (1 level above RIT). While the 2-5 is similar to 6+ concepts, the 6+ is more in depth.
Since it is spring MAP testing time again.. I thought this thread could be revisited. One thing I found interesting.. someone (I dont recall who) had posted a link for what would be considered gifted scores. Those started in second grade. Is there anything for first grade?
So how do I know whether to give a student regular MAP Reading or Primary MAP Reading? All students should take the test appropriate to their grade level. While in previous years, there were recommendations for students who were scoring extremely high or extremely low to take out of level tests, the MAP test packages were updated in Fall 2009 and now have increased ability to test students at the high and low ends of the RIT scale. MAP Primary can accurately test students up to grade 7. 2-5 and 6+ tests can accurately test students in grades 1-12. The only difference between 2-5 and 6+ tests is that any reading passages on the 2-5 tests are limited to 100 words maximum.
Now i need to find out which test they are giving to dd.. according to this she should not be taking MAP primary at all this year. Might be too late now as I think spring MAP started today
(See page 2)
