Hi everyone. I am new here, but have been reading posts for a while. My DS6 took the SB5 two days ago, and we just got a report from the psychologist. To my dismay, he only listed FSIQ, verbal composite and nonverbal composite. I have recently left a vm asking for the raw scores...not sure why he wouldn't have sent those to begin with. Anyway, the letter he sent says "On the SB5, DS obtained a FSIQ = 136, with a Verbal IQ =136, and a Non-Verbal IQ = 134. These scores are all at the 99th percentile compared to 6 yr olds and indicate much higher scores will be obtained as DS gets older."

When I spoke to him at the end of the test, he mentioned that DS hit various ceilings, so I am guessing that is what he means by saying that much higher scores are indicated. I guess one of my questions is, why wouldn't he be able to get an accurate IQ at age 6 on the SB5? I understand the ceiling effect, to an extent. Is that what the problem could be? I thought that IQ was pretty stable over time?

Any help would be appreciated, and as soon as I have any raw score data, I will post that as well as I am sure it will be more helpful. Thanks!

Thanks...I agree that it is a very odd statement. I have left a message with his secretary, so hopefully he will be calling back and sending out all of the additional data. I am a little frustrated with this tester, to be honest. He seems to gloss over a lot of things when I ask questions, as though I couldn't possibly understand the details!

Thanks for your response Dottie. I did think he was going to test using the WISC, but was wrong. I just got off the phone with the psychologist, and I am fuming. He was very condescending, and when I asked for the subtest scores, he asked why I would want them?! I said that I was looking for more information, and I didn't understand why he said that DS would likely score higher at a later date. He said that there are more sections that he could take as he got older, or that he could retest with the WISC. I asked why he didn't use the WISC, and he said that since he is only 6, he would tend to get more answers wrong, and that it might frustrate him ?! What? I was actually allowed to stay in the room for the SB5, and I actually only saw him miss two answers on the entire test. I am sure I missed some things, but it always seemed to me that a subtest would end, and he was still getting the answers right. It is all very bizarre. I asked that he please mail me the subtests scores even though he didn't seem to want to, and he said "fine, but they are about as relevant at this point as his shirt size". Seriously? DS is not at all reserved, and had no problem warming up to the examiner. He also took the reading portion of the WIAT, and he scored the following:

Sight Vocab: Grade 5.2
Phonics: Grade 7.2
Reading Comprehension: Grade 7.5

Tester said that the reading comprehension only went up to Grade 7.5, and he didn't miss anything, so he could have gone higher if it had been available.

Dottie,
That's the case for myDS9. Knowledge was the lowest index(123) on his SB-5. He was 8.7 years old, so he wasn't really "younger" though... I was also puzzled by the huge difference between verbal(18) and nonverbal(10) knowledge. He is 2e, but still......Do you know which subtest on the WISC-IV is equivalent/similar in measuring nonverbal knowledge skill?

Dottie
The report says that he used the Stanford-Binet Intelligence Scale-5th Edition. He was also pretty adamant about DS needing to be 6 before taking it. That is why I just assumed he was using the WISC IV.

Ah! That might be the case. He seems to have trouble reasoning from visual cues(pictures, facial expressions, etc) in general. May be it's just Aspie thing. Thanks, Dottie.

gratified3, thank you for the info. I'm still trying to figure out what his IQ/achievement data suggest about his weaknesses and strengths, and I can't seem to get a clear picture of them. He is a very puzzling kid!

I remember reading somewhere that kids with ASD do not do well on Comprehension subtest on the WISC-IV. His scaled score was 19. The psychologist who tested him even suggested us to read "Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnoses of Gifted Children and Adults". He was suspicious of DS's original diagnosis of ASD. Then again, I know he has some typical Aspie issues.... I thought he was verbally gifted. His VCI on the WISC-IV is 148 (158 with Extended norms) Similarities 16, Vocabulary 19 and Comprehension 19 and Verbal IQ 144 on the SB-5. Yet his Oral Language on WJ III is only 115! I just don't understand this kid!

Anyways, sorry for butting in on your thread, eaglemom. Welcome!

My son had similar scores on the SB-5. He took it when he was 5 years, 8 mos. We also had a big discrepancy between verbal and nonverbal scores (NVIQ 119, VIQ143). The knowledge score (111) was very low compared to the other scores, and I believe that's what brought his overall score down (FSIQ 132). I'd love to find a tester who is TRULY experienced with testing gifted children. We really liked the psychologist who did ds's testing, but he told ds that if it was difficult he could say, "pass" b/c "he was way past qualifying as gifted." It's like he was trying to make sure he scored well enough to qualify for a school gifted program, but that was not our goal at all. We want true scores so we can understand our child. He didn't tell our son that until he started missing a question here and there and became slightly frustrated. I think he, too, was trying to make sure it was not a scary experience. Our son doesn't like things that don't come easy to him, so he just started saying, "pass," "pass," "pass" without trying if it took some thought to answer. I think, overall, we had a good tester, but looking back I wonder how much little things like that affect scores. I am considering more testing but not sure where to go.

Another interesting note is that ds was just diagnosed with ADHD, and looking back at his SB-5 scores, working memory was in the 75th %ile, much lower than the other scores as well. This is very typical/indicative of people with ADHD, and I wonder if he'd score better in this area now that the ADHD is being treated.

To the OP, I feel your frustration and am appalled that the tester was so condescending. I feel your frustration. Don't you just love it that you had the testing done only to wonder if you need more testing to confirm the results? Like Dottie said, though, it sounds like you can accept that your son is solidly gifted. That's where we are now. We know that ds is probably highly gifted, but we'd sure like to know more. Good luck, and keep us posted on what you find.

Well, I hope to get the subtests this week, but I think I am starting to get an idea of what happened (and I am not excited about it). I talked to a friend who is a psychologist and is familiar with testing, and she asked me several questions about the test itself, since I was present for the entire thing. I told her that DS would answer several questions on a subtest (correctly), and then the tester would just move on to the next test. I can think of at least 3 test sections where he moved on before DS had missed a single question. I assumed wrongly he was hitting the ceiling for 6 yr olds, but didn't realize at the time that the test went up through adulthood, and there would have been several more questions he could have been asked. Apparently the tester just ended the section himself if he thought that DS would probably get the next few wrong. He actually mentioned to me afterwards that he had not done certain parts b/c DS "couldn't have had the life experiences to know that yet". I didn't realize that he was actually ending subest sections whenever he decided to, but apparently that seems to be the case. The friend I talked to said that she does know of psychologists who have done that if they were certain that a child had reached a certain point where they would be eligable for gifted programs for example, and they felt like a higher score wouldn't really matter at that point.

It may very well be true that DS would have scored the same if the tester had gone on and let him miss 3 questions or whatever it is on each section. And in reality, we don't need a higher score for anything right now...I was not planning to apply to DYS at this point, and we are not trying to advocate for a grade skip. My problem is that if we decide to do any of those in the future,he would have to get retested to see if it would even be an option. Has anyone else heard of a psychologist doing something similar? To me it seems completely unethical.

Sorry for the rant, I am just frustrated.

My DS5 too...got a 12 on the non-verbal knowledge.. and a 19 on the verbal. We were surprised by the 12 as it was so different than all his other scores. I figured it was because we just hadn't really taught him anything or exposed him to enough, LOL. Who knows.

Count us in too. DS5 got 19 on the verbal knowledge, 14 on the non-verbal one, DS5 lowest non-verbal score. It seems like a common pattern.

Eaglemom, that sounds extremely frustrating! Can you ask the psychologist if he indeed do that?

hi eaglemom
after all i've seen with my son who is 2E and been tested a LOT, i would not at all be surprised if the tester stopped when he/she felt like it. We had one tester say to us when my son was three, that she was stopping the test early because she he had enough of it done to get an IQ of 80. She said his services would be cut off if he scored higher. At the time we thought we were grateful, but it meant that we did not know he was highly gifted for four more long years. Then last year his speech therapist at school says "he did so amazing on the comprehension section" of the speech/achievement testing she was doing. She said she ran out of questions and he did >99th percentile. I asked "so what were his scores last year?" and she said "i usually stop the test when the kids hit their grade/age level!".. ugh. i was so disgusted.

irene

Grrrrrr It's so frustrating! It happened to my DS9 when he was in K, going through some assessments for grade acceleration. (from K to 2nd grade) The reading specialist who tested him said his reading is "at least" 6th grade level, but she said she stopped testing him since "it was more than good enough info." Those psychologists/educators...don't they have any professional curiosities?

Ok...I got the subtest results in the mail today. To me it looks like he might have hit a couple of ceilings, but then as some people have pointed out, his FSIQ and composite scores don't necessarily show that. Does anyone know how to make sense of it all (other than the fact that he wasn't really allowed to miss much, so there were some "Dr. Induced ceilings". I am so frustrated with this pyschologist at this point, and the lack of information that he has given us. It was like pulling teeth to get these scores from him.

Verbal Non-Verbal
Fluid Reasoning: 13 17
Knowlege: 19 14
Quant. Reasoning 15 14
Visual Spatial: 16 16
Working Memory: 16 15